The Official Cunningham vs Suggs Thread #Tank4Either

[tecumseh18]

Would prefer to avoid Mobley. It’s clear that drafting a top big means a high chance of getting a Wiseman/Ayton/Bagley rather than an AD or Embiid. If they don’t have elite inside/outside skills they will end up being a role player/bust in today’s NBA.

I would take Cade/Suggs/Kuminga before I take Mobley.

I think there is a lot of overvaluing mobility on the offensive side and shooting range, and it's really screwing with judging how impactful big men will be in their NBA careers.

What goalies are in hockey, your big men should be in the NBA. Fun fact, goalies have to be the best skaters on the team.

My point is, what Marc provided in his heyday is all your really need from a C. Otherwise, a good opposing coach will eventually force you to go small. I'm sure if Raps get into the top 5, Masai and the gang will look very closely at Eric Mobley's defensive mobility before drafting him.

Yeah, it looks he will score more than Baynes. But guess what, this team doesn't need much scoring from the C position. We need size. If it ends up being Suggs, then Masai has to make some changes to give us more size in the other positions. I don't think either Trent or Suggs can play the point full time, although Trent was frequently bringing the ball up last night after Fred went out.

[ATLTimekeeper]

What goalies are in hockey, your big men should be in the NBA. Fun fact, goalies have to be the best skaters on the team.

My point is, what Marc provided in his heyday is all your really need from a C. Otherwise, a good opposing coach will eventually force you to go small. I'm sure if Raps get into the top 5, Masai and the gang will look very closely at Eric Mobley's defensive mobility before drafting him.

Yeah, it looks he will score more than Baynes. But guess what, this team doesn't need much scoring from the C position. We need size. If it ends up being Suggs, then Masai has to make some changes to give us more size in the other positions. I don't think either Trent or Suggs can play the point full time, although Trent was frequently bringing the ball up last night after Fred went out.

Hopefully they scout Evan Mobley and not Eric. Embiid is playing like an MVP this year, and AD just won a title (as the 2nd best player on his team, but still). Mobley is in that stratosphere of prospect.

[tecumseh18]

What goalies are in hockey, your big men should be in the NBA. Fun fact, goalies have to be the best skaters on the team.

My point is, what Marc provided in his heyday is all your really need from a C. Otherwise, a good opposing coach will eventually force you to go small. I'm sure if Raps get into the top 5, Masai and the gang will look very closely at Eric Mobley's defensive mobility before drafting him.

Yeah, it looks he will score more than Baynes. But guess what, this team doesn't need much scoring from the C position. We need size. If it ends up being Suggs, then Masai has to make some changes to give us more size in the other positions. I don't think either Trent or Suggs can play the point full time, although Trent was frequently bringing the ball up last night after Fred went out.

Hopefully they scout Evan Mobley and not Eric. Embiid is playing like an MVP this year, and AD just won a title (as the 2nd best player on his team, but still). Mobley is in that stratosphere of prospect.

Hah, I initially wrote the post just saying Mobley, and then at the last second I wanted to make it clear which one I was talking about. I failed.

Embiid and AD are famously mobile. It's their defence that helps their teams win, more than the scoring. I don't think Mobley really compares to them, but someone lately (maybe in this thread) compared Mobley to four-time champion TD. If that's at all true, if even to the tiniest degree, then both Fred and Kyle and one of OG, Pascal or Trent have to be shut down for the year, effective immediately. Even that may not be enough if the other team is on a B2B - as the Nuggets and Warriors were in the last 10 days. Raps are so close to transcendent greatness. We can't let this moment slip away.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Embiid and AD are famously mobile. It's their defence that helps their teams win, more than the scoring. I don't think Mobley really compares to them, but someone lately (maybe in this thread) compared Mobley to four-time champion TD. If that's at all true, if even to the tiniest degree, then both Fred and Kyle and one of OG, Pascal or Trent have to be shut down for the year, effective immediately. Even that may not be enough if the other team is on a B2B - as the Nuggets and Warriors were in the last 10 days. Raps are so close to transcendent greatness. We can't let this moment slip away.

You've been watching his brother, maybe? I guarantee you that Evan is mobile and I'd argue more mobile that both Embiid and Davis were in college. I made a point of noting how Embiid moved quickly but clumsily, and I suspected it was because he came to basketball late from volleyball. He was consistently making bad decisions with his body and didn't know how to fall, how to avoid trouble. As a result he's been injured frequently. Mobley is a pure basketball player. I'm not being hyperbolic here. He just moves well.

As for the hype train, I'm just beyond giving a **** about where we draft anymore. We won a title. I don't need to think about missing out on the next whomever. I think Mobley is the clear #1 here. A full tier above everyone else. But, trying to predict who will have the mental make-up, health, etc to be pass through all the playoff purity tests is futile.

[Psubs]

What goalies are in hockey, your big men should be in the NBA. Fun fact, goalies have to be the best skaters on the team.

My point is, what Marc provided in his heyday is all your really need from a C. Otherwise, a good opposing coach will eventually force you to go small. I'm sure if Raps get into the top 5, Masai and the gang will look very closely at Eric Mobley's defensive mobility before drafting him.

Yeah, it looks he will score more than Baynes. But guess what, this team doesn't need much scoring from the C position. We need size. If it ends up being Suggs, then Masai has to make some changes to give us more size in the other positions. I don't think either Trent or Suggs can play the point full time, although Trent was frequently bringing the ball up last night after Fred went out.

Hopefully they scout Evan Mobley and not Eric. Embiid is playing like an MVP this year, and AD just won a title (as the 2nd best player on his team, but still). Mobley is in that stratosphere of prospect.

Hah, I initially wrote the post just saying Mobley, and then at the last second I wanted to make it clear which one I was talking about. I failed.

Embiid and AD are famously mobile. It's their defence that helps their teams win, more than the scoring. I don't think Mobley really compares to them, but someone lately (maybe in this thread) compared Mobley to four-time champion TD. If that's at all true, if even to the tiniest degree, then both Fred and Kyle and one of OG, Pascal or Trent have to be shut down for the year, effective immediately. Even that may not be enough if the other team is on a B2B - as the Nuggets and Warriors were in the last 10 days. Raps are so close to transcendent greatness. We can't let this moment slip away.

Mobley is more KAT than Duncan or AD. He's better on defense than KAT with so few fouls.

So is KAT with better defense worth more than a star wing?

[TorontoRapsFan]

What goalies are in hockey, your big men should be in the NBA. Fun fact, goalies have to be the best skaters on the team.

My point is, what Marc provided in his heyday is all your really need from a C. Otherwise, a good opposing coach will eventually force you to go small. I'm sure if Raps get into the top 5, Masai and the gang will look very closely at Eric Mobley's defensive mobility before drafting him.

Yeah, it looks he will score more than Baynes. But guess what, this team doesn't need much scoring from the C position. We need size. If it ends up being Suggs, then Masai has to make some changes to give us more size in the other positions. I don't think either Trent or Suggs can play the point full time, although Trent was frequently bringing the ball up last night after Fred went out.

Hopefully they scout Evan Mobley and not Eric. Embiid is playing like an MVP this year, and AD just won a title (as the 2nd best player on his team, but still). Mobley is in that stratosphere of prospect.

Hah, I initially wrote the post just saying Mobley, and then at the last second I wanted to make it clear which one I was talking about. I failed.

Embiid and AD are famously mobile. It's their defence that helps their teams win, more than the scoring. I don't think Mobley really compares to them, but someone lately (maybe in this thread) compared Mobley to four-time champion TD. If that's at all true, if even to the tiniest degree, then both Fred and Kyle and one of OG, Pascal or Trent have to be shut down for the year, effective immediately. Even that may not be enough if the other team is on a B2B - as the Nuggets and Warriors were in the last 10 days. Raps are so close to transcendent greatness. We can't let this moment slip away.

Watch on YouTube

Not a chance. Not on D, not as a rebounder, and not as a back to basket game. Only similarity i see is they both have face up game

[Psubs]

Embiid and AD are famously mobile. It's their defence that helps their teams win, more than the scoring. I don't think Mobley really compares to them, but someone lately (maybe in this thread) compared Mobley to four-time champion TD. If that's at all true, if even to the tiniest degree, then both Fred and Kyle and one of OG, Pascal or Trent have to be shut down for the year, effective immediately. Even that may not be enough if the other team is on a B2B - as the Nuggets and Warriors were in the last 10 days. Raps are so close to transcendent greatness. We can't let this moment slip away.

You've been watching his brother, maybe? I guarantee you that Evan is mobile and I'd argue more mobile that both Embiid and Davis were in college. I made a point of noting how Embiid moved quickly but clumsily, and I suspected it was because he came to basketball late from volleyball. He was consistently making bad decisions with his body and didn't know how to fall, how to avoid trouble. As a result he's been injured frequently. Mobley is a pure basketball player. I'm not being hyperbolic here. He just moves well.

As for the hype train, I'm just beyond giving a **** about where we draft anymore. We won a title. I don't need to think about missing out on the next whomever. I think Mobley is the clear #1 here. A full tier above everyone else. But, trying to predict who will have the mental make-up, health, etc to be pass through all the playoff purity tests is futile.

Embiid looked like Hakeem in college. I don't know about the falling but doesn't he have a background playing soccer?

[Psubs]

Hopefully they scout Evan Mobley and not Eric. Embiid is playing like an MVP this year, and AD just won a title (as the 2nd best player on his team, but still). Mobley is in that stratosphere of prospect.

Hah, I initially wrote the post just saying Mobley, and then at the last second I wanted to make it clear which one I was talking about. I failed.

Embiid and AD are famously mobile. It's their defence that helps their teams win, more than the scoring. I don't think Mobley really compares to them, but someone lately (maybe in this thread) compared Mobley to four-time champion TD. If that's at all true, if even to the tiniest degree, then both Fred and Kyle and one of OG, Pascal or Trent have to be shut down for the year, effective immediately. Even that may not be enough if the other team is on a B2B - as the Nuggets and Warriors were in the last 10 days. Raps are so close to transcendent greatness. We can't let this moment slip away.

Watch on YouTube

Not a chance. Not on D, not as a rebounder, and not as a back to basket game. Only similarity i see is they both have face up game

Defense is there. He's not dominant like Duncan or Embiid or even AD, he's more like skinny KAT with better D.

Tim Duncan played all 4 years at Wake Forest and developed all the offensive moves. Mobley likely never will like KAT because of how the game is played today. He'll be more P&R and shoot the 3.

[youngRAPZ]

What goalies are in hockey, your big men should be in the NBA. Fun fact, goalies have to be the best skaters on the team.

My point is, what Marc provided in his heyday is all your really need from a C. Otherwise, a good opposing coach will eventually force you to go small. I'm sure if Raps get into the top 5, Masai and the gang will look very closely at Eric Mobley's defensive mobility before drafting him.

Yeah, it looks he will score more than Baynes. But guess what, this team doesn't need much scoring from the C position. We need size. If it ends up being Suggs, then Masai has to make some changes to give us more size in the other positions. I don't think either Trent or Suggs can play the point full time, although Trent was frequently bringing the ball up last night after Fred went out.

Hopefully they scout Evan Mobley and not Eric. Embiid is playing like an MVP this year, and AD just won a title (as the 2nd best player on his team, but still). Mobley is in that stratosphere of prospect.

I love Mobley and wouldn’t mind if we got him. But look how long it took to embiid to reach this point. And what was AD doing before lebron??

I don’t want to draft a big and wait 5-7 years for him to become Tim Duncan. Much rather Cade Suggs or Green who I think by year 3 can get us back to conference finals and playoffs as soon as next year.

We absolutely need to target Holmes on a good deal. His defence rebounding and ability to score around the basket is exactly what we need. I understand he can’t shoot the 3 but we can always close with our version of the death lineup

Og
Siakam
Cade
GTJ
VV

Or throw bouche in there for some added shot blocking down the stretch.


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[HeadtopChunes]

I'd like to get your opinion HeadtopChunes

Who would you look to select with the 7th pick or if we got a top 3 pick for the Raptors, based on what you've seen while watching these prospects?

Top 3 is pretty easy for me, I think the general consensus of Cade, Mobley then Suggs is correct would just go in that order.

I'm still sorting out everyone not them though so I don't have a rock-solid opinion yet, right now would lean towards this group very loosely in this order assuming the top 3 and the Ignite boys are gone.

- Jalen Johnson
- Keon Johnson
- Jaden Springer
- Moses Moody
- Ziaire Williams

Springer, Moody and Williams I like personally. Jalen Johnson is interesting but his shooting worries me. Keon Johnson I see the defensive ability but no creation ability. He is a smooth athlete that could be molded though.

Yeah Jalen isn't a good shooter, the appeal to his game is within the other things though, he's a very high-level passer for a 19 year old big, can be very impactful defensively when he wants to and his 6'9 strong frame gives him some great 2-way upside as a point forward, although my biggest reservation is that he doesn't cover as much ground as he should (not very fast + takes short strides) diminishing his effectiveness as a slasher


Keon is a tools pick, he's the most athletic player in the draft showed some midrange scoring ability but not too much else at Tennesse. The defense + personality fits the Raptors draft profile, and you can look at how we've done developing guys like OG, Norm, Siakam etc as the the basis for taking a kid like that.

[HeadtopChunes]

I can't beleive we're still stuck in 2016 with the center argument, "the bigs are NBA running back" narrative is clearly not true for anyone actually paying attention to the league

A C is the MVP favorite, a 2nd C will finish top 3 in voting, and the top 15 contains at least 4 centers and that's not even counting guys like AD and Giannis who play both big spots.

[youngRAPZ]

I can't beleive we're still stuck in 2016 with the center argument, "the bigs are NBA running back" narrative is clearly not true for anyone actually paying attention to the league

A C is the MVP favorite, a 2nd C will finish top 3 in voting, and the top 15 contains at least 4 centers and that's not even counting guys like AD and Giannis who play both big spots.

I can almost guarantee the team that wins it all this year and next will not have a Center as it’s best player. In fact I want to take it a step further and ask when was the last championship won with a big being the best player? Those last couple spurs chips don’t count. Spurs are my favourite team outside of the raps and I can admit Duncan was not the best player on the last chip maybe even the last 2.


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[Psubs]

If Ayayi drops, what about Suggs, Ayayi and Timme draft? Instant chemistry.

[720]

I can't beleive we're still stuck in 2016 with the center argument, "the bigs are NBA running back" narrative is clearly not true for anyone actually paying attention to the league

A C is the MVP favorite, a 2nd C will finish top 3 in voting, and the top 15 contains at least 4 centers and that's not even counting guys like AD and Giannis who play both big spots.

We're having a resurgence of elite centers but it's already been proven that forwards/guards are truly what run the league. Before Lebron what was AD winning? Giannis hasn't won anything because teams keep collapsing in the paint vs him and his shooters keep falling short in the playoffs. Embiid while elite feels like he always gets injured during the season.

In this draft, if we have the choice between Cade or Mobley, or Green or Mobley. I would honestly go with the guard/forward first always.

[tecumseh18]

Top 3 is pretty easy for me, I think the general consensus of Cade, Mobley then Suggs is correct would just go in that order.

I'm still sorting out everyone not them though so I don't have a rock-solid opinion yet, right now would lean towards this group very loosely in this order assuming the top 3 and the Ignite boys are gone.

- Jalen Johnson
- Keon Johnson
- Jaden Springer
- Moses Moody
- Ziaire Williams

Springer, Moody and Williams I like personally. Jalen Johnson is interesting but his shooting worries me. Keon Johnson I see the defensive ability but no creation ability. He is a smooth athlete that could be molded though.

Yeah Jalen isn't a good shooter, the appeal to his game is within the other things though, he's a very high-level passer for a 19 year old big, can be very impactful defensively when he wants to and his 6'9 strong frame gives him some great 2-way upside as a point forward, although my biggest reservation is that he doesn't cover as much ground as he should (not very fast + takes short strides) diminishing his effectiveness as a slasher

Keon is a tools pick, he's the most athletic player in the draft showed some midrange scoring ability but not too much else at Tennesse. The defense + personality fits the Raptors draft profile, and you can look at how we've done developing guys like OG, Norm, Siakam etc as the the basis for taking a kid like that.

I've been wondering if the Raptors scouts have spotted a special player below the top 5, which might slow the tank express. And if so, who would that player is likely to be?

It seems to be common knowledge that Raps identified Giannis, LaMelo and SGA in the lead up to those drafts, and were trying to secure the rights to draft them. Not really a common characteristic, except maybe size for their position (but then why draft Flynn?).

Keon doesn't represent that sort of size. He's about the same as Trent, which is fine, but ... we already have Trent. And OG. I know, don't draft for need. But if all draft picks in a given range are comparable in talent level, then why not pay attention to need.

[ATLTimekeeper]

I can't beleive we're still stuck in 2016 with the center argument, "the bigs are NBA running back" narrative is clearly not true for anyone actually paying attention to the league

A C is the MVP favorite, a 2nd C will finish top 3 in voting, and the top 15 contains at least 4 centers and that's not even counting guys like AD and Giannis who play both big spots.

I can almost guarantee the team that wins it all this year and next will not have a Center as it’s best player. In fact I want to take it a step further and ask when was the last championship won with a big being the best player? Those last couple spurs chips don’t count. Spurs are my favourite team outside of the raps and I can admit Duncan was not the best player on the last chip maybe even the last 2.

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No one should go into the draft with the idea of getting the best player on a title winner. The idea is to just get the best players available. There's a clear "top 5" at the head of this draft, and we know from history and statistics that they won't all pan out to even 5 all-stars. From my viewpoint, Mobley has the best chance at being the best out of the 5.

I'm not even thinking in terms of the Raptors. The idea that they can just grab a player and vault themselves back in contention based on that lotto talent seems like wishful thinking, especially when all these kids are 18-19 years old. The draft is just another market to add talent to your team. The prospects themselves end up dictating their importance to the team. If you start trying to solve major problems with the draft, I think you're likely to make a lot of mistakes.

[NotMyKawhi]

we need top 5 but if we aren't in the top 5?

Jalen Johnson



Barnes

ziare Williams
Keon Johnson

trade the pick

[NotMyKawhi]

If Sengun learns how to shoot I'd like him too

[WeTheNorth123]

If Sengun learns how to shoot I'd like him too

100%...he is young and has good FT percent + his form isnt horrible so i could see him developing it

[youngRAPZ]

I can't beleive we're still stuck in 2016 with the center argument, "the bigs are NBA running back" narrative is clearly not true for anyone actually paying attention to the league

A C is the MVP favorite, a 2nd C will finish top 3 in voting, and the top 15 contains at least 4 centers and that's not even counting guys like AD and Giannis who play both big spots.

I can almost guarantee the team that wins it all this year and next will not have a Center as it’s best player. In fact I want to take it a step further and ask when was the last championship won with a big being the best player? Those last couple spurs chips don’t count. Spurs are my favourite team outside of the raps and I can admit Duncan was not the best player on the last chip maybe even the last 2.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No one should go into the draft with the idea of getting the best player on a title winner. The idea is to just get the best players available. There's a clear "top 5" at the head of this draft, and we know from history and statistics that they won't all pan out to even 5 all-stars. From my viewpoint, Mobley has the best chance at being the best out of the 5.

I'm not even thinking in terms of the Raptors. The idea that they can just grab a player and vault themselves back in contention based on that lotto talent seems like wishful thinking, especially when all these kids are 18-19 years old. The draft is just another market to add talent to your team. The prospects themselves end up dictating their importance to the team. If you start trying to solve major problems with the draft, I think you're likely to make a lot of mistakes.

I think Mobley has a higher chance of being Towns than Embiid Davis Duncan and that’s in 5-7 years. I never said any of the rookies would lead us to contention next year.

Also to be clear I’d only draft Cade over Mobley and maybe Green if I had access to workouts.

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