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Around The NBA

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jbk1234
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#281 » by jbk1234 » Fri Apr 2, 2021 11:11 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
We "marketed" Andre as a first option and what did that get us?

Nobody wants Kevin or Andre as their first option, they might like them to fill a specific need but not at the kind of money they're making.

So, yes, we fundamentally disagree on Love's value and tradeability.

But hey, there's no time like the present. This isn't last year. Darius and Collin have improved. We have some serious rim protection and perimeter D help for Kevin. Thompson is gone. JBB is running the show.

So, let's see where Kevin as the team's first option takes us, and how long he can stay on the floor until something else breaks.

If you're right, shouldn't he be able to build up his trade value for this Summer? What's going to hold that back? Well, other than the fact that the Cavs could use a healthy and productive Kevin Love more than probably the other 29 teams.


In terms of Drummond's value, it took a big hit when we traded for Allen. He got fewer minutes, fewer rebounds, and fewer touches. More importantly, the prospect of taking back long term salary and getting value for his expiring contract ended. But you make the Allen trade anyway because it's the right move long term.

In terms of trading Love now, it's not going to be possible without attaching draft capital or a prospect who you don't want to trade in a salary dump. I have no faith in his health status at this point and I doubt any potential trade partner does either. In fact, I think there's a a real chance the guy ends up medically retired before his contract is up. There isn't enough basketball left to played in this season to allay those concerns. Some mistakes you can mitigate and learn from. Other mistakes, you have to ride out the consequences. What happened in the first half of last season was the latter. They're called missed opportunities for a reason.


Love played only 22 games the year before last ... trusting Love to say healthy is a ship that sailed a long time ago before it ever arrived in Cleveland. Even if you want to dismiss his thumb injuries and the shoulder injury as a fluke, there's a reason he lost all that weight.

We signed Kevin to a contract well above his market price. It is what it is.
Unless the team and Kevin lied about it, that was the result of an elective surgery in a year where the Cavs realized the needed a teardown. This was a year where the Cavs could've really used him on the court, where he would've played alongside a rim protector in Allen and a PG who was figuring things out. It matters.

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cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#282 » by JonFromVA » Sat Apr 3, 2021 6:33 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
In terms of Drummond's value, it took a big hit when we traded for Allen. He got fewer minutes, fewer rebounds, and fewer touches. More importantly, the prospect of taking back long term salary and getting value for his expiring contract ended. But you make the Allen trade anyway because it's the right move long term.

In terms of trading Love now, it's not going to be possible without attaching draft capital or a prospect who you don't want to trade in a salary dump. I have no faith in his health status at this point and I doubt any potential trade partner does either. In fact, I think there's a a real chance the guy ends up medically retired before his contract is up. There isn't enough basketball left to played in this season to allay those concerns. Some mistakes you can mitigate and learn from. Other mistakes, you have to ride out the consequences. What happened in the first half of last season was the latter. They're called missed opportunities for a reason.


Love played only 22 games the year before last ... trusting Love to say healthy is a ship that sailed a long time ago before it ever arrived in Cleveland. Even if you want to dismiss his thumb injuries and the shoulder injury as a fluke, there's a reason he lost all that weight.

We signed Kevin to a contract well above his market price. It is what it is.
Unless the team and Kevin lied about it, that was the result of an elective surgery in a year where the Cavs realized the needed a teardown. This was a year where the Cavs could've really used him on the court, where he would've played alongside a rim protector in Allen and a PG who was figuring things out. It matters.


If a GM of another team that believed Kevin could stay healthy and be an effective first option, he'd have been traded already.

The Bulls were just the right kind of desperate, but they hooked up with Orlando and dunno but we might have given Kevin right of refusal even if such a deal was in the works.

Let's hope for the best? Kevin should help quite a bit if he can stay on the floor, and if we keep his minutes limited ... he may not even hurt our lottery odds.

We need to see starting lineups with decent floor spacing.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#283 » by Stillwater » Sat Apr 3, 2021 6:44 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Love played only 22 games the year before last ... trusting Love to say healthy is a ship that sailed a long time ago before it ever arrived in Cleveland. Even if you want to dismiss his thumb injuries and the shoulder injury as a fluke, there's a reason he lost all that weight.

We signed Kevin to a contract well above his market price. It is what it is.
Unless the team and Kevin lied about it, that was the result of an elective surgery in a year where the Cavs realized the needed a teardown. This was a year where the Cavs could've really used him on the court, where he would've played alongside a rim protector in Allen and a PG who was figuring things out. It matters.


If a GM of another team that believed Kevin could stay healthy and be an effective first option, he'd have been traded already.

The Bulls were just the right kind of desperate, but they hooked up with Orlando and dunno but we might have given Kevin right of refusal even if such a deal was in the works.

Let's hope for the best? Kevin should help quite a bit if he can stay on the floor, and if we keep his minutes limited ... he may not even hurt our lottery odds.

We need to see starting lineups with decent floor spacing.

Nobody who was considering trading for KLove would have been seeing him as a first option even if the Cavs made the mistake of paying an injury prone guy 1st option $.
He was never a first option on a winner which means he was never a true first option...he did however play a crucial role as a 2nd or 3rd option in every game he played during the finals runs and that should have carried over but it didnt.
The Cavs rewarded him too much everyone knows it, and he has held this org hostage as a result since they did.
There is nothing for him here any more beyond eating up cap space and being the highest paid on court coach in the NBA
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#284 » by jbk1234 » Sat Apr 3, 2021 6:53 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Love played only 22 games the year before last ... trusting Love to say healthy is a ship that sailed a long time ago before it ever arrived in Cleveland. Even if you want to dismiss his thumb injuries and the shoulder injury as a fluke, there's a reason he lost all that weight.

We signed Kevin to a contract well above his market price. It is what it is.
Unless the team and Kevin lied about it, that was the result of an elective surgery in a year where the Cavs realized the needed a teardown. This was a year where the Cavs could've really used him on the court, where he would've played alongside a rim protector in Allen and a PG who was figuring things out. It matters.


If a GM of another team that believed Kevin could stay healthy and be an effective first option, he'd have been traded already.

The Bulls were just the right kind of desperate, but they hooked up with Orlando and dunno but we might have given Kevin right of refusal even if such a deal was in the works.

Let's hope for the best? Kevin should help quite a bit if he can stay on the floor, and if we keep his minutes limited ... he may not even hurt our lottery odds.

We need to see starting lineups with decent floor spacing.


I mean Jason Lloyd, who I trust, reported that the Blazers offered expiring contracts for him last year at the deadline. I have to believe if the Cavs put minimal effort into boosting his trade value, I'm talking about the bare fricking minimum here, they could've pulled a late first as well. Love would be better off and so would the Cavs. That was a missed opportunity and hopefully the Cavs learned from it.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#285 » by JonFromVA » Sun Apr 4, 2021 9:41 am

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:Unless the team and Kevin lied about it, that was the result of an elective surgery in a year where the Cavs realized the needed a teardown. This was a year where the Cavs could've really used him on the court, where he would've played alongside a rim protector in Allen and a PG who was figuring things out. It matters.


If a GM of another team that believed Kevin could stay healthy and be an effective first option, he'd have been traded already.

The Bulls were just the right kind of desperate, but they hooked up with Orlando and dunno but we might have given Kevin right of refusal even if such a deal was in the works.

Let's hope for the best? Kevin should help quite a bit if he can stay on the floor, and if we keep his minutes limited ... he may not even hurt our lottery odds.

We need to see starting lineups with decent floor spacing.


I mean Jason Lloyd, who I trust, reported that the Blazers offered expiring contracts for him last year at the deadline. I have to believe if the Cavs put minimal effort into boosting his trade value, I'm talking about the bare fricking minimum here, they could've pulled a late first as well. Love would be better off and so would the Cavs. That was a missed opportunity and hopefully the Cavs learned from it.


Kevin was nailing his career averages at age 31 playing with Sexton and Garland. Its not hard to extrapolate that to Dame and CJ.

The players that need their value massaged (if you want to flip them) are the younglings. Limit their minutes to situations they can handle and set them up for easy scores and you might keep their hype train rolling.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#286 » by Harper4Ferry? » Sun Apr 4, 2021 6:14 pm

Explain to me how Jrue Holiday is worth 40 million dollars.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#287 » by JonFromVA » Sun Apr 4, 2021 6:30 pm

Harper4Ferry? wrote:Explain to me how Jrue Holiday is worth 40 million dollars.


He's worth it to keep their core together I guess. The Bucks need to hope he ages well sort of in the Billups mold.

Risky move by the Pelicans to give him up when they're trying to build around Zion.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#288 » by jbk1234 » Mon Apr 5, 2021 12:36 am

Harper4Ferry? wrote:Explain to me how Jrue Holiday is worth 40 million dollars.
He's not. It might be worth it to keep Giannis happy, but if you're going to pay full freight, I don't understand why you wouldn't wait and see how Jrue performs in the postseason. They just did this with Bledsoe and he got lit up by Rozier in the playoffs a month later.

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cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#289 » by toooskies » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:14 pm

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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#290 » by JonFromVA » Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:43 pm



At the moment, he's the hero of the altercation, but we'll see how it shakes out as the NBA will surely investigate.

There is of course the side issue of why a large group of Rockets players were out at a strip club risking exposure to Covid, and what if anything will be done about that, and why only Porter Jr is listed as out due to the protocols. I'm not sure if the league has adjusted their protocols at all now that vaccinations are available.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#291 » by Stillwater » Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:06 pm


and if there hadnt been a slasher film come to reality for Mr.Brown walking in on somebodies private party all anyone would know is KPJ was out. Instead the story gets blown up. The thing here that gets missed is probably half of the players in the NBA under 25 are going to clubs with masks on
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#292 » by Harper4Ferry? » Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:22 pm

Kevin Pelton and Mike Schmitz broke down their top 10 rookies and second year players based on potential on ESPN+ content and Pelton didn't have Garland or Okoro in either of his top 10 lists.

RANK PELTON SCHMITZ
1. Zion Williamson Zion Williamson
2. Ja Morant Ja Morant
3. Michael Porter Jr. Michael Porter Jr.
4. Keldon Johnson RJ Barrett
5. RJ Barrett Keldon Johnson
6. Luguentz Dort Darius Garland
7. Matisse Thybulle Tyler Herro
8. Tyler Herro Talen Horton-Tucker
9. Cameron Johnson Luguentz Dort
10. Talen Horton-Tucker Matisse Thybulle

Top 10 Rookies By Future Potential
RANK PELTON SCHMITZ
1. LaMelo Ball LaMelo Ball
2. Tyrese Haliburton Anthony Edwards
3. Anthony Edwards Tyrese Haliburton
4. Saddiq Bey Patrick Williams
5. Immanuel Quickley Deni Avdija
6. Devin Vassell Isaac Okoro
7. Isaiah Stewart Saddiq Bey
8. Desmond Bane Onyeka Okongwu
9. Chuma Okeke James Wiseman
10. Onyeka Okongwu Isaiah Stewart

Interesting to note that Okoro has the 2nd lowest usage rate of a top 5 NBA pick since 1985(behind Hasheem Thabeet)
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#293 » by JonFromVA » Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:21 pm

Pelton must have disqualified Cavaliers players for some reason. And when are they going to realize that Morant and Herro have taken a step backwards this season?

"Future potential" is sort of a nebulous category that lets them ignore performance whenever it's convenient.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#294 » by jbk1234 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:48 am

JonFromVA wrote:Pelton must have disqualified Cavaliers players for some reason. And when are they going to realize that Morant and Herro have taken a step backwards this season?

"Future potential" is sort of a nebulous category that lets them ignore performance whenever it's convenient.
Yeah, Pelton's list is kind of ridiculous.

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Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#295 » by JonFromVA » Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:01 pm

Harper4Ferry? wrote:Interesting to note that Okoro has the 2nd lowest usage rate of a top 5 NBA pick since 1985(behind Hasheem Thabeet)


otoh, I bet his minutes per game is pretty high on the list. A lot of rookies can't stay on the floor because they get in foul trouble, hurt their team on D, or as is the case for Isaac are inefficient on O.

His unselfishness and pride in his defense are rare things in the league. Hopefully we background checked for a crazy Uncle, but maybe Uncle Dennis had a point? Kawhi's minutes and usage were kept pretty low in San Antonio even though he's never had a TS% below 56% in his career and the only season his team was worse with him on the floor than off was his rookie season.

Fingers crossed that Isaac can improve his 3pt shot as rapidly as Kawhi (who played 2 seasons in the NCAA) did.

Good news so far for Isaac in 11 games in to April ... it's his first month the Cavs have been better with him on the floor than off, his FG%, 3pt% and TS% have shot up to 50%, 38% and 60%, and he's even knocking down his free throws at 82%.

Overall, he's still playing much better at home than on the road and in wins than in losses. There's some similarity to Kawhi in his splits as well.

So for those of us more interested in flashes and trends with a 19yr old than overall results, this is very promising.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#296 » by Stillwater » Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:17 pm

Make as many excuses as you want about this org did all they needed to do to repair the problems with KPJ but Koby is a fool
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#297 » by JonFromVA » Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:01 pm

Stillwater wrote:Make as many excuses as you want about this org did all they needed to do to repair the problems with KPJ but Koby is a fool


Please go and join the Houston board ... the kid is no longer a Cavalier.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#298 » by Stillwater » Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:57 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Make as many excuses as you want about this org did all they needed to do to repair the problems with KPJ but Koby is a fool


Please go and join the Houston board ... the kid is no longer a Cavalier.

or maybe for once you can grow a pair and hold the org accountable for their actions :nod:
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#299 » by JonFromVA » Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:30 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:Make as many excuses as you want about this org did all they needed to do to repair the problems with KPJ but Koby is a fool


Please go and join the Houston board ... the kid is no longer a Cavalier.

or maybe for once you can grow a pair and hold the org accountable for their actions :nod:


Is that what you think you're doing?

Interesting.
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Re: Around the NBA 

Post#300 » by toooskies » Fri Apr 30, 2021 8:01 pm

Stillwater wrote:Make as many excuses as you want about this org did all they needed to do to repair the problems with KPJ but Koby is a fool

So are 28 other GMs in the league for not offering more

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