Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow!

[Knightro]

I would like to challenge you to find a time when a team traded OUT of the elite range of picks in order to add quantity like you suggest.

I'm not talking about the time when Boston gave up Fultz to get Tatum or Atlanta gave up Doncic to get Young. In these cases, they stayed within range of getting an elite player in the Top 3.. Top 5. They did not go outside of the range where they would miss out on getting an elite talent.

If you can find that, then I can be open to your idea. If we are armed with a Top 5 pick, then I can see us being able to trade into the Top 3. But if we are not, then that just becomes a dishonest false hope, imo.

Two drafts ago in 2019.

The Atlanta Hawks traded 8, 17, 34 and a 2020 protected 1st that didn't convey and became two 2nds to the New Orleans Pelicans for the 4th overall pick.

And the Magic wouldn't necessarily have to trade up to 3 anyway. I suspect Cunningham and Mobley are going to end up going 1/2 which means one of Suggs/Green will be available at 4 and if somebody really likes Kuminga, then he could go top 4 too, so who knows.

I'm really hard pressed to see a scenario where a team wouldn't trade 4 for 7/11/future 1st (and it might not even cost this much).

[RookieStar]

I would like to challenge you to find a time when a team traded OUT of the elite range of picks in order to add quantity like you suggest.

I'm not talking about the time when Boston gave up Fultz to get Tatum or Atlanta gave up Doncic to get Young. In these cases, they stayed within range of getting an elite player in the Top 3.. Top 5. They did not go outside of the range where they would miss out on getting an elite talent.

If you can find that, then I can be open to your idea. If we are armed with a Top 5 pick, then I can see us being able to trade into the Top 3. But if we are not, then that just becomes a dishonest false hope, imo.

Two drafts ago in 2019.

The Atlanta Hawks traded 8, 17, 34 and a 2020 protected 1st that didn't convey and became two 2nds to the New Orleans Pelicans for the 4th overall pick.

And the Magic wouldn't necessarily have to trade up to 3 anyway. I suspect Cunningham and Mobley are going to end up going 1/2 which means one of Suggs/Green will be available at 4.

Yup, unlike other drafts.. these players Cade Suggs Green all have different skillset that we want and need. So if ne is taken, we don't necessarily have to feel bad if we get to choose another of them

[basketballRob]

Steph Curry was the 7th pick and Klay Thompson was the 11th. So trading the 7th and 11th for the 5th or 4h, could really mess up a franchise. In the Curry draft, 4 and 5 was Tyreke Evans and Rubio. In the Klay draft, the 4 and 5 was Jonas and Tristan Thompson.

Also if you gave up a bunch of assets for like a Bradley Beal, we'd basically be just like the Bulls. No guarantee Beal would even help us make the playoffs.

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[Skin]

Steph Curry was the 7th pick and Klay Thompson was the 11th. So trading the 7th and 11th for the 5th or 4h, could really mess up a franchise. In the Curry draft, 4 and 5 was Tyreke Evans and Rubio. In the Klay draft, the 4 and 5 was Jonas and Tristan Thompson.

Also if you gave up a bunch of assets for like a Bradley Beal, we'd basically be just like the Bulls. No guarantee Beal would even help us make the playoffs.

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Curry and Klay were not considered elite prospects. That's why they fell.

[basketballRob]

Steph Curry was the 7th pick and Klay Thompson was the 11th. So trading the 7th and 11th for the 5th or 4h, could really mess up a franchise. In the Curry draft, 4 and 5 was Tyreke Evans and Rubio. In the Klay draft, the 4 and 5 was Jonas and Tristan Thompson.

Also if you gave up a bunch of assets for like a Bradley Beal, we'd basically be just like the Bulls. No guarantee Beal would even help us make the playoffs.

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Curry and Klay were not considered elite prospects. That's why they fell.

I know. Just like Kispert doesn't look anywhere near as good as Jalen Green. We don't know for sure tho.

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[Skin]

I would like to challenge you to find a time when a team traded OUT of the elite range of picks in order to add quantity like you suggest.

I'm not talking about the time when Boston gave up Fultz to get Tatum or Atlanta gave up Doncic to get Young. In these cases, they stayed within range of getting an elite player in the Top 3.. Top 5. They did not go outside of the range where they would miss out on getting an elite talent.

If you can find that, then I can be open to your idea. If we are armed with a Top 5 pick, then I can see us being able to trade into the Top 3. But if we are not, then that just becomes a dishonest false hope, imo.

Two drafts ago in 2019.

The Atlanta Hawks traded 8, 17, 34 and a 2020 protected 1st that didn't convey and became two 2nds to the New Orleans Pelicans for the 4th overall pick.

And the Magic wouldn't necessarily have to trade up to 3 anyway. I suspect Cunningham and Mobley are going to end up going 1/2 which means one of Suggs/Green will be available at 4 and if somebody really likes Kuminga, then he could go top 4 too, so who knows.

I'm really hard pressed to see a scenario where a team wouldn't trade 4 for 7/11/future 1st (and it might not even cost this much).

Nah bro. The 2019 NBA Draft was not a Top 4 draft. Most considered it a Top 3 draft with Zion, Morant and Barrett... but even then, it might've been considered a Top 1 draft. As Zion was considered a level above Morant and Barrett. DeAndre Hunter was not an elite prospect.

#4 in that draft was like landing #6 in this draft.

[Skin]

Steph Curry was the 7th pick and Klay Thompson was the 11th. So trading the 7th and 11th for the 5th or 4h, could really mess up a franchise. In the Curry draft, 4 and 5 was Tyreke Evans and Rubio. In the Klay draft, the 4 and 5 was Jonas and Tristan Thompson.

Also if you gave up a bunch of assets for like a Bradley Beal, we'd basically be just like the Bulls. No guarantee Beal would even help us make the playoffs.

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Curry and Klay were not considered elite prospects. That's why they fell.

I know. Just like Kispert doesn't look anywhere near as good as Jalen Green. We don't know for sure tho.

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I don't know what point you're trying to make. That we have a chance at getting lucky even if we end up picking outside of the Top 5?

MMmmk... sure.

[basketballRob]

Curry and Klay were not considered elite prospects. That's why they fell.

I know. Just like Kispert doesn't look anywhere near as good as Jalen Green. We don't know for sure tho.

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I don't know what point you're trying to make. That we have a chance at getting lucky even if we end up picking outside of the Top 5?

MMmmk... sure.

I'm just arguing against trading multiple assets to get one. I think we should just let it play out and hope the guys we draft, turn out to be good players.

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[Skin]

I know. Just like Kispert doesn't look anywhere near as good as Jalen Green. We don't know for sure tho.

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I don't know what point you're trying to make. That we have a chance at getting lucky even if we end up picking outside of the Top 5?

MMmmk... sure.

I'm just arguing against trading multiple assets to get one. I think we should just let it play out and hope the guys we draft, turn out to be good players.

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I can see your point... Just depends, imo. I can see the logic for moving up. I just hate to have to when all you have to do right now is LOSE games.

[Magic#1]

I know. Just like Kispert doesn't look anywhere near as good as Jalen Green. We don't know for sure tho.

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I don't know what point you're trying to make. That we have a chance at getting lucky even if we end up picking outside of the Top 5?

MMmmk... sure.

I'm just arguing against trading multiple assets to get one. I think we should just let it play out and hope the guys we draft, turn out to be good players.

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It all depends on how you rate players. If a front office thinks another Luka is there and they can get him, you give it up. That doesn't mean the player will be. Some of it is front office and scout evaluations, some of it is luck, and some of it is how other teams rate the same players. There have been great picks at every lottery slot taken since it began and there have been busts at every slot. If we think a 1A bonafide franchise changer can be had with a deal, we should do it. But if we think that player is just marginally better than who we could get with our pick, then you probably don't. For this draft, while Cade is the No. 1, I don't see him lightyears ahead of Suggs or Green. So if we have the opportunity to get one of them and keep other assets, that's what I'd do. But if the front office thinks Cade can be Grant Hill and Green is more like Steve Smith, then maybe you do make the deal.

[Knightro]

Nah bro. The 2019 NBA Draft was not a Top 4 draft. Most considered it a Top 3 draft with Zion, Morant and Barrett... but even then, it might've been considered a Top 1 draft. As Zion was considered a level above Morant and Barrett. DeAndre Hunter was not an elite prospect.

#4 in that draft was like landing #6 in this draft.

Personally? I would say Hunter, Culver and Reddish were comparable prospects to Green and Kuminga.

Just because those three were on the tier below Zion, Ja and RJ doesn't mean they were bad prospects.

I think this class has talented guys, but I don't think any of them are sure fire all-stars except maybe Cunningham.

[Knightro]

I can see your point... Just depends, imo. I can see the logic for moving up. I just hate to have to when all you have to do right now is LOSE games.

But it isn't that black and white. Just losing isn't going to guarantee the Magic anything. It will increase the odds, but Magic could finish like 3-21 or whatever and still finish outside of the top 5.

[basketballRob]

With 2 picks between the 6-12, you probably have the same odds of getting an allstar picking 1 pick between 2-5.

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[Skin]

I can see your point... Just depends, imo. I can see the logic for moving up. I just hate to have to when all you have to do right now is LOSE games.

But it isn't that black and white. Just losing isn't going to guarantee the Magic anything. It will increase the odds, but Magic could finish like 3-21 or whatever and still finish outside of the top 5.

Yes lottery luck is involved, but it is clear as day, black and white, and 100% guaranteed that the odds will worsen the more we win.

[RookieStar]

I can see your point... Just depends, imo. I can see the logic for moving up. I just hate to have to when all you have to do right now is LOSE games.

But it isn't that black and white. Just losing isn't going to guarantee the Magic anything. It will increase the odds, but Magic could finish like 3-21 or whatever and still finish outside of the top 5.

Yeah, this is what I don't get. Have a lot of us forgotten the new rules the league put in place to curb tanking? Have we forgotten the past drafts where NY was supposed to pick 5 but ended in 8 or SAC was 7 put ended up 2? ( apologies if the exact numbers are wrong but I think they are close enough )

As long as we maintain our standings so to speak in the top..or lowest 4 in the draft, then we have the same chances as those above/below us. A lot will really depend on lotto luck.

[RookieStar]

I know. Just like Kispert doesn't look anywhere near as good as Jalen Green. We don't know for sure tho.

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I don't know what point you're trying to make. That we have a chance at getting lucky even if we end up picking outside of the Top 5?

MMmmk... sure.

I'm just arguing against trading multiple assets to get one. I think we should just let it play out and hope the guys we draft, turn out to be good players.

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Agree with this. As I said, the top 3 right now ( for me at least ) are a mash. They all bring different skill set to the table which as I said, we all need and want ( like Cade the mini-Luka, Suggs, Dwade ?? Who sees it? Green the Tmac/Kobe scoring ) Unless our FO sees really something in one of them that we have to get him then we choose who is left IF we are unlucky enough not to pick 1st.

This draft , while top-heavy, isn't the same as the LBJ / Zion draft wherein you know that pick has everything INCLUDING the marketing personality to put your team into every prime time schedule. I don't even think this is the same as the AD draft where everyone knows AD was going first.

[Knightro]

Yes lottery luck is involved, but it is clear as day, black and white, and 100% guaranteed that the odds will worsen the more we win.

Of course. But what I said rings true as well. Just losing will not actually guarantee the Magic anything. So all the hand wringing and bellyaching over every single win, and there will be more before the year is over, is just silly to me.

But ultimately I'm not too worried about it because the Magic don't have nearly enough offensive firepower to win many games down the stretch anyway.

The maniacal defense and energy level is going to subside (it might have already started last night) and the losses will rack up.

[penny_nz]

Yes lottery luck is involved, but it is clear as day, black and white, and 100% guaranteed that the odds will worsen the more we win.

Of course. But what I said rings true as well. Just losing will not actually guarantee the Magic anything. So all the hand wringing and bellyaching over every single win, and there will be more before the year is over, is just silly to me.

But ultimately I'm not too worried about it because the Magic don't have nearly enough offensive firepower to win many games down the stretch anyway.

The maniacal defense and energy level is going to subside (it might have already started last night) and the losses will rack up.

I'm with you man, with the lotto odds being flattened out it's so very unlikely the bottom 3 teams will get the top 3 picks. I we think one of the top 3 players is THE piece to go with Fultz / Cole, Chuma, Isaac etc, then you move and get it. Use both 1sts, future firsts (ours or Bulls / Denver) and hell even throw in T Ross, one of Bamba or WCJ (whoever you're not committing too). No point waiting for future luck and wasting valuable years with our current players if you think that player is attainable.

Obviously don't mortgage the farm, but make your own luck

[The Effect]

Nah bro. The 2019 NBA Draft was not a Top 4 draft. Most considered it a Top 3 draft with Zion, Morant and Barrett... but even then, it might've been considered a Top 1 draft. As Zion was considered a level above Morant and Barrett. DeAndre Hunter was not an elite prospect.

#4 in that draft was like landing #6 in this draft.

Personally? I would say Hunter, Culver and Reddish were comparable prospects to Green and Kuminga.

Just because those three were on the tier below Zion, Ja and RJ doesn't mean they were bad prospects.

I think this class has talented guys, but I don't think any of them are sure fire all-stars except maybe Cunningham.

I dont know, even coming out i thought hunter, culver and reddish were WAY overrated and didnt get the hype

Hunter looked to be turning it around, but as a draft prospect i wouldnt have him anywhere near either of the jalens

[yoyojw17]

I still remember going into the 2018 draft... people were complaining about wins going down to the wire. Then we lost the last game or something like that... giving us the better pick than sacramento... people were excited.... and then guess what.... Sacramento went to 2. THEN... people were mad that we didn't win the last game. Yes... i get that we do have better chances the worse we do.... but there is also a chance that the net pick is the one that we might have wanted. or not. we don't know. But at the end of the day.... this is an opportunity to see what we have....and how good the players we have can be while establishing strong habits for the future. how good our coach is... who fits who doesn't... all that is needed. Players are playing for their livelyhood... some contracts are nearly up, some people are playing for their future role on the team. I doubt there is a way for them to say.... hey guys... let's halfass so we can get your possible next replacement.

as i said... i want them to play hard and play well... but just falling short. But if we win... so be it. Fultz and isaac will be back next season... and hopefully the players build off of this years success.