What Would Peak Ray Allen's Stats Look Like Today?

[Bmaasse]

Kobes on court performance has been massively overrated because of where he played and his overall off court fame & celebrity whereas Allen’s has been massively underrated due to playing in small markets in his prime. They are a lot closer than people make them out to be.

Putting Ray in the same sentence as Kobe is laughable.

Ray would less valuable today than he was when he played. Everybody can shoot nowadays, it’s not a coveted skill. Team’s don’t value pure shooters more today, they value them less. Your logic is backwards.

The skill that is valued today is playmaking. Look at Doncic and Jokic. I bet Toni Kukoc would be more valuable than Ray in today’s league.

Dude you never watched a single game of prime Allen if you think he was just a pure shooter.

I watched a lot of games with Ray in his prime, and all he did was shoot. Mostly catch and shoot. Rarely penetrated because the Bucks had one of the worst whistles in the entire league, so he didn't get to the line often. He was soft, and wasn't that great of a defender.
In no era, realm, or universe is Ray Allen better than Kobe Bryant.

[Cavsfansince84]

I think he'd be more in the 26-30ppg territory(which he only did once in his prime) but his efficiency would be even higher. I'd say between 62-65% ts every year. Slightly better than Dame is due to having better size/athleticism combo, better off ball and being a better shooter. Ray had 8 seasons above 40% on 4.2-7.7 attempts per game with a high of 45.3% while Dame has only done it once and on just 40.1%.

[Pelly24]

I think he'd be more in the 26-30ppg territory(which he only did once in his prime) but his efficiency would be even higher. I'd say between 62-65% ts every year. Slightly better than Dame is due to having better size/athleticism combo, better off ball and being a better shooter. Ray had 8 seasons above 40% on 4.2-7.7 attempts per game with a high of 45.3% while Dame has only done it once and on just 40.1%.

Dame's def. a quicker/more athletic player with more power and about 5 inches more in vertical, to go along with a better handle.

[Duke4life831]

Peak Ray Allen with today's style of basketball would likely be consensus top 10.

I have a hard time seeing this.

LeBron
Kawhi
Giannis
Harden
Jokic
Embiid
KD
Curry
Luka
AD
Dame

That is 11 guys right there. Who are you taking a prime Ray Allen over?

We're talking about 28 year old Ray Allen in today's game and I want to win one game right now?

I'd take him over Giannis, Harden, Curry, Luka, Embiid, AD, and Dame. His game couldn't be made any better for this era, because he was a complete 3 level scorer who outruns everybody on the court.

For a whole year maybe it would be less arguable, I just see Ray being really, really ridiculously good in this day and age.

I think a consensus top 10 player we are talking about a player you can count on for more than just 1 game.

Also what makes Ray's game so much better now than it was back in his prime? Its not like Ray was only taking one 3pt shot per game but in today's age he would be taking 8-9. Prime Ray was already taking 7-9 3s per game. His 3pt rate hovered around 40% in his prime. Say it bumps up to the 50-60% that we see from guys like Curry and Dame. Okay we are talking 2 more 3s per game. Not 2 more made 3s, but 2 more attempts.

Where else does his game take a big step to be as impactful as those other guys? He isnt the defender guys like Giannis, Embiid, and AD are. He isnt the facilitator like Harden and Luka are. He isnt the same kind over shot creator off the dribble that Dame, Harden and Luka are.

Im just not sure Im seeing where he is going to get this big boost in impact and not seeing how he over takes the guys that are already viewed as top 10 players right now.

[Cavsfansince84]

I think he'd be more in the 26-30ppg territory(which he only did once in his prime) but his efficiency would be even higher. I'd say between 62-65% ts every year. Slightly better than Dame is due to having better size/athleticism combo, better off ball and being a better shooter. Ray had 8 seasons above 40% on 4.2-7.7 attempts per game with a high of 45.3% while Dame has only done it once and on just 40.1%.

Dame's def. a quicker/more athletic player with more power and about 5 inches more in vertical, to go along with a better handle.

I'm not sold on Dame being more athletic. I think they are close but I'd say Ray is 2-3 inches taller and slightly more athletic. Handle I could give to Dame. All in all I think Ray would be slightly better than Dame is today.

[TD2FutureStar]

30ppg on 10attemps per game from 3. Probably would shoot around 44%

[TD2FutureStar]

Putting Ray in the same sentence as Kobe is laughable.

Ray would less valuable today than he was when he played. Everybody can shoot nowadays, it’s not a coveted skill. Team’s don’t value pure shooters more today, they value them less. Your logic is backwards.

The skill that is valued today is playmaking. Look at Doncic and Jokic. I bet Toni Kukoc would be more valuable than Ray in today’s league.

Dude you never watched a single game of prime Allen if you think he was just a pure shooter.

I watched a lot of games with Ray in his prime, and all he did was shoot. Mostly catch and shoot. Rarely penetrated because the Bucks had one of the worst whistles in the entire league, so he didn't get to the line often. He was soft, and wasn't that great of a defender.
In no era, realm, or universe is Ray Allen better than Kobe Bryant.

Kobe was way better. Also when Allen played for Boston he was an excellent defender. He also had the ability to out the ball on the floor and get to the hoop. He'd be a beast in this Charmin soft Era.

[draftnightsuit]

Kobes on court performance has been massively overrated because of where he played and his overall off court fame & celebrity whereas Allen’s has been massively underrated due to playing in small markets in his prime. They are a lot closer than people make them out to be.

Putting Ray in the same sentence as Kobe is laughable.

Ray would less valuable today than he was when he played. Everybody can shoot nowadays, it’s not a coveted skill. Team’s don’t value pure shooters more today, they value them less. Your logic is backwards.

The skill that is valued today is playmaking. Look at Doncic and Jokic. I bet Toni Kukoc would be more valuable than Ray in today’s league.

Dude you never watched a single game of prime Allen if you think he was just a pure shooter.

I watched a lot of prime Ray. He was a good player, but nowhere near what people are making him out to be. He had other skills at the basic level, but wasn’t elite at anything other than shooting.

Also, other than Curry (who is the GOAT shooter) pure shooters are a dying breed. None of the best SGs in the league today are pure shooters: Beal, Harden, Mitchell Booker, LaVine, Jaylen Brown... all of these guys have the ability to shoot, but their offensive games are very diverse.

The best pure shooters nowadays are guys like Duncan Robinson, Luke Kennard, and Joe Harris. Not only would Ray not be more valuable today, but his style of play is almost becoming obsolete.

[Big J]

Putting Ray in the same sentence as Kobe is laughable.

Ray would less valuable today than he was when he played. Everybody can shoot nowadays, it’s not a coveted skill. Team’s don’t value pure shooters more today, they value them less. Your logic is backwards.

The skill that is valued today is playmaking. Look at Doncic and Jokic. I bet Toni Kukoc would be more valuable than Ray in today’s league.

Dude you never watched a single game of prime Allen if you think he was just a pure shooter.

I watched a lot of prime Ray. He was a good player, but nowhere near what people are making him out to be. He had other skills at the basic level, but wasn’t elite at anything other than shooting.

Also, other than Curry (who is the GOAT shooter) pure shooters are a dying breed. None of the best SGs in the league today are pure shooters: Beal, Harden, Mitchell Booker, LaVine, Jaylen Brown... all of these guys have the ability to shoot, but their offensive games are very diverse.

The best pure shooters nowadays are guys like Duncan Robinson, Luke Kennard, and Joe Harris. Not only would Ray not be more valuable today, but his style of play is almost becoming obsolete.

You just compared Ray to Duncan Robinson and Luke Kennard. Read that back to yourself slowly and realize how ridiculous it sounds.

[narmerguy]

Didn't you get the memo? Every star in the history of the NBA would average 30ppg, when it's not 35 or 40ppg.

Lol, I know you are trying to be funny but a lot of older stars would truly see an explosion in their numbers. The game is extremely different from how it used be played. It's played faster, it's perimeter oriented and more emphasis on the 3 point shot. Just on those facts alone and without naming other factors should tell you older players would avg more. Back in the 90s scoring 100 points in game was considered difficult. Now if you don't score 100 you probably lose a game.

You still have it wrong and don't bother to look at shot distribution. The difference in scoring output is mostly coming from bench players, because stars are playing less minutes and not really shooting more. There's 1 guy averaging more than 30ppg this year and yet some act as if 100 guys from the 80s, 90s and 00s would average over 30ppg per game if playing now. It's simply delusional.

In his season where he scored the most points (2007), Allen played 40mpg... Won't happen now. He also had 21 FGA, something that just Beal is doing right now. Allen isn't coming in the league and shooting 25 times a game in 36 mpg! I'm so tired of this type of thread. Kobe had 22.8 FGA in 2007 and Carmelo 22.4. The style of play has changed.

There are more really good players.now as the talent in the league has never been better. Therefore more guys average 20+ ppg and the bench players play bigger minutes. Which means that the difference at the top would mostly be shooting 4-5 more 3s per game vs 2s, which would at best mean 1-2 more ppg, not 5 or 10.

Some people are inflating the stat inflation to make themselves feel better about the past. They're delusional if they think all these guys are averaging 30ppg. Most of them would be more efficient taking about the same number of shots in less minutes. That's it.

The guy just before me even brought the dumb point that it's easier to get to the line and Ray Allen would suddenly shoot more 3s and have more FTA.... FTA attempts are DOWN compared to the past! Less FTA because of more 3PA. It's pretty simple.

I won't even bother with the statement that defense is worst as it's obviously a bias and not based on reality.

I love when I arrive to a thread and someone has already posted a better version of what I wanted to say.

[Metallikid]

Isn’t it interesting that, regardless of the current era, there’s always a ton of past stars who would be Gods in fast forward?

Several people in this thread are convinced Ray Allen would be a 30ppg scorer today.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/414055-all-time-30-points-per-game-players-year-by-year.amp.html

He would be easily. He averaged 26 at 31 in 2008.

You want to modify those numbers to account for the increase in scoring across the League?

The number of people who have averaged 25/26 versus 30 is an enormous gap for a reason.

You’re throwing the term “easily” around pretty nonchalantly.

Scoring has gone up by like 25%.

What's 26 x 125%?

32.5

[DCasey91]

Sonics Allen? 27/5/6 on elite as heck efficiency >60% ts. Right now stats are hugely inflated, one the greatest shooters ever he’ll be taking 10 3 pt attempts a game. He’d definitely shoot over 40% on threes with this kind of space and heliocentricity

48/41/90

[rtiff68]

He would be easily. He averaged 26 at 31 in 2008.

You want to modify those numbers to account for the increase in scoring across the League?

The number of people who have averaged 25/26 versus 30 is an enormous gap for a reason.

You’re throwing the term “easily” around pretty nonchalantly.

Scoring has gone up by like 25%.

What's 26 x 125%?

32.5

You really think that math is completely linear within that context?

Ok, man.

[draftnightsuit]

Isn’t it interesting that, regardless of the current era, there’s always a ton of past stars who would be Gods in fast forward?

Several people in this thread are convinced Ray Allen would be a 30ppg scorer today.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/414055-all-time-30-points-per-game-players-year-by-year.amp.html

There’s only 1 player currently averaging 30PPG.

Only 1 season in NBA history has there been more than 3 players averaging 30PPG (1962).

Yet somehow every single decent scorer from the 90s would “easily” average 35PPG today, and some might even average 40!

[Metallikid]

The number of people who have averaged 25/26 versus 30 is an enormous gap for a reason.

You’re throwing the term “easily” around pretty nonchalantly.

Scoring has gone up by like 25%.

What's 26 x 125%?

32.5

You really think that math is completely linear within that context?

Ok, man.

I think there is plenty enough circumstantial evidence to support what I am saying. At the highest level I think I can make a calculation like that. He was a top 10 scorer that year and he was 31.

[Metallikid]

I have a hard time seeing this.

LeBron
Kawhi
Giannis
Harden
Jokic
Embiid
KD
Curry
Luka
AD
Dame

That is 11 guys right there. Who are you taking a prime Ray Allen over?

We're talking about 28 year old Ray Allen in today's game and I want to win one game right now?

I'd take him over Giannis, Harden, Curry, Luka, Embiid, AD, and Dame. His game couldn't be made any better for this era, because he was a complete 3 level scorer who outruns everybody on the court.

For a whole year maybe it would be less arguable, I just see Ray being really, really ridiculously good in this day and age.

I think a consensus top 10 player we are talking about a player you can count on for more than just 1 game.

Also what makes Ray's game so much better now than it was back in his prime? Its not like Ray was only taking one 3pt shot per game but in today's age he would be taking 8-9. Prime Ray was already taking 7-9 3s per game. His 3pt rate hovered around 40% in his prime. Say it bumps up to the 50-60% that we see from guys like Curry and Dame. Okay we are talking 2 more 3s per game. Not 2 more made 3s, but 2 more attempts.

Where else does his game take a big step to be as impactful as those other guys? He isnt the defender guys like Giannis, Embiid, and AD are. He isnt the facilitator like Harden and Luka are. He isnt the same kind over shot creator off the dribble that Dame, Harden and Luka are.

Im just not sure Im seeing where he is going to get this big boost in impact and not seeing how he over takes the guys that are already viewed as top 10 players right now.

I think Ray has a really underrated handle, and he was a more balanced scorer. He was a better slasher and finisher than Curry and Dame, and he was a better shooter than everyone else basically. His style of off-ball movement and coming off screens is basically unstoppable nowadays. And he was not bad defensively either, probably a lot better than Luka, Harden, Dame, Curry and LeBron (at this age)

I also happen to think Ray is a very good leader.

[Cavsfansince84]

Isn’t it interesting that, regardless of the current era, there’s always a ton of past stars who would be Gods in fast forward?

Several people in this thread are convinced Ray Allen would be a 30ppg scorer today.

I'm not generally one of those people but the difference here is we are talking about Ray Allen, who was widely considered either goat or second best 3 pt shooter of all time before Steph exploded in 2015-16. He also had great all around scoring skills and would get to play in a lot more space and probably encouraged to take more 3pters today while playing in offenses designed around the 3pt shot. If there's one guy from the pre 2000 era that was made for today's game it's probably between Ray, Jerry, Bird and Reggie.

[leolozon]

He would be easily. He averaged 26 at 31 in 2008.

You want to modify those numbers to account for the increase in scoring across the League?

The number of people who have averaged 25/26 versus 30 is an enormous gap for a reason.

You’re throwing the term “easily” around pretty nonchalantly.

Scoring has gone up by like 25%.

What's 26 x 125%?

32.5

You are throwing % around as if you know what you are talking about, yet you are completly off on every single possible thing.

Allen scores 26.4 in 2006-2007 not 2008 (He was in Boston that year.). The scoring has gone up 13% since then. 25%? You thought that even made sense?

26.4*1.13 = 29.8

You would be disproving your own point right there. But on top of that, you forgot that this assumes Allen is playing the same amount of minutes than he was in 2007. He would NEVER play 40.3mpg now. No one is. Allen was 5th in MPG in 2007 which is 35.9mpg this year. So it's a difference of about 12.3% which would put him right back to his 2007 average (or close), but in 36mpg instead of 40mpg...

I have no doubt that Allen would be shooting 11 3PA instead of 8 3PA and therefore he would MAYBE average 27-28ppg if he shot 21 times like in 2007...

People like you just don't want to see that role players are responsible for most of that scoring increase, considering the Stars are sitting 5 minutes more and therefore are often shooting even less than in the past. You want to see how many FGA Iverson or Kobe had vs now?

[leolozon]

Isn’t it interesting that, regardless of the current era, there’s always a ton of past stars who would be Gods in fast forward?

Several people in this thread are convinced Ray Allen would be a 30ppg scorer today.

I'm not generally one of those people but the difference here is we are talking about Ray Allen, who was widely considered either goat or second best 3 pt shooter of all time before Steph exploded in 2015-16. He also had great all around scoring skills and would get to play in a lot more space and probably encouraged to take more 3pters today while playing in offenses designed around the 3pt shot. If there's one guy from the pre 2000 era that was made for today's game it's probably between Ray, Jerry, Bird and Reggie.

Curry is better than Ray Allen and yet his best PPG ever is 30.1 in an MVP season with a .669 TS%... 11.2 threes at .454. One of the greatest season in modern basketball. Think about it.

Allen would certainly have a chance to score 30ppg if he had 22-24 FGA in 36mpg and went to the FT line enough. Many great players would. Not a lot of teams would let them though...

[Cavsfansince84]

Curry is better than Ray Allen and yet his best PPG ever is 30.1 in an MVP season with a .669 TS%... 11.2 threes at .454. One of the greatest season in modern basketball. Think about it.

Allen would certainly have a chance to score 30+ppg if he had 22-24 FGA in 36mpg and went to the FT line enough. Many great players would. Not a lot of teams would let them though...

I already said above that I think he'd avg 26-30ppg now so don't assume I said he'd be above that. What I said is that he's one of the 4 players whose game would best be suited to today's game from before 2000. I mean he was great in the early 2000's. Today he would be even better. His 3 pt shot was a thing of beauty.