3toheadmelo wrote:NoDopeOnSundays wrote:3toheadmelo wrote:To say Orlando never tanked is not true at all.
2012-2013: 20-62
2013-2014: 23-59
2014-2015: 25-47
2016-2017: 29-53
2017-2018: 25-57
You guys say tanking is supposed to be all about getting young stars long term but now you're using a new narrative saying that you use tanking to trade players for stars. Pick a side, you all over the place
. And the only player who was a top 5 pick on Toronto was JV. So they didn't really "tank", instead they actually did what the Knicks have been doing, which is getting the 8th and 9th pick. They actually hit on their picks unlike us. So you're still wrong about Toronto. Also notice how you ignored Miami, cause you know damn well they didn't tank to get to the finals.
Lavine will be a free agent next year. Why not just wait for him? Bulls are worse with Vucevic's defense so Lavine will want out of there. We can even trade for him if necessary. I am pretty sure another star player will want out as well. It happens every year.
How am I all over the place, when you don't even want to acknowledge that the Magic made the playoff, so isn't the tanking a success there? They traded an MVP caliber player in 2011, they weren't "tanking" they were just flat out bad, they only had the worst record once in that time period and drafted Oladipo. However they drafted Isaac and Gordon in those years too, who helped them get to the playoffs which seems to be the do or die goal this year. Gordon and Isaac were the 4th and 6th picks, if you say the Raptors didn't tank then neither did the Magic. That is the point, the players who actually got them to the playoffs and back to irrelevancy were the guys they drafted from 2014 on. The fact they made the playoffs before us, and you forgot that they did shows how completely irrelevant it is to do it in the East
How am I wrong about Toronto? They had years of lottery picks that helped them build an asset base. Who wants any of our young players outside of IQ and RJ? We're not even doing what those teams did, our lottery picks are rotting on the bench while the vets play. Why would I mention the Heat? They aren't going to win the title, and most importantly, go look at their minutes distribution last year, then look at ours and tell me if you notice a difference. I'll save you the trip, their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th players with the most minutes were 2nd year guys and under 25. Derrick Jones played more for them than IQ plays for us.
Time to let go of the LaVine dream, if that's our only hope we may as well just get ready for the eventual 2024-2028 draft now, cause if we don't sign him there's nothing else out there, and if we do sign him we still need a number 1
You can't sell me on a guy being a 1 while they're 9 games under .500 in the East.
I just gave you 5 seasons of Orlando tanking. I am not ignoring their playoff appearances. In fact, their 5 years of tanking has only resulted in 2 first round exits. So you actually just made my argument even stronger. Tanking is not always successful.
Again you are all all over the place. You said you did not mention the Heat because they aren't going to win a championship, yet you are praising Orlando for reaching the playoffs with Aaron Gordon and Isaac because they tanked for them. Bruh, Im done
When you are ready to pick a side in your argument and be consistent then we can talk about tanking.
And you're still wrong about Toronto. Cause they picked Derozan 9th, Ross, 8th. Isn't that where we've been picking the last couple of years? Blame the Knicks for drafting Frank, Knox, Obi over the likes of SGA, Bam, Donovan Mitchell, Haliburton, etc. That's where your frustration should really be at. A top 5 pick isn't the only way to draft high end talent.
It's not a stretch to say Lavine can reach another level under Thibs. We saw Randle do it, and Lavine is getting better every year just like Randle. They're both extremely hard workers which bodes well with Thibs.
5 seasons with zero context whatsoever, and they weren't flat out tanking which is why they only had the worst record once. Adding context is pointing out they had the 5th worst record in 2017 and 2018, or that they were 35-47 in 2015-2016 which is why you left out that year. I don't understand your angle on this one, we haven't made the playoffs and have been losing longer than them, the only two years we committed to being a bottom 3 team are the two years we ended up with two actual all-star level talents. The Magic lost a MVP runner up, and bounced back quicker than we did, they also decided to trade off Oladipo in the middle too and bounced back from that, so did the tank work or not? You want us to make the playoffs, so how are you trying to spin 2 first round exists as a bad thing if you also want us to be a first round exit this year, that is the measure of our growth right, getting to the playoffs for the right to get bodied.
Where am I praising the Magic? I said we're on the path to being like them, which is exactly what I want to avoid. They never drafted a top tier talent and decided to go ahead with their push to be competitive, which is what we're doing. I brought up the Magic because they made the playoffs the last 2 seasons, nobody cares that they did it, and they're no better for doing it. They were at a crossroads with Vucevic, drafted a center and then he has a career year, makes the all-star team, they make the playoffs and lock him up in the offseason, how can you not see the similarities? They should be a cautionary tale. The Raptors developed those players, they created value by playing and developing Ross and DeRozan, outside of RJ nobody on this team under 25 is playing big minutes.
And what if we don't get LaVine, then what? We're back to hoping that we can land a free agent that may never come? What's the pivot if LaVine decides to take the extra year, or the Bulls start winning. You can't say the Vucevic trade has failed so soon too, it's been 5 games, judge them after 20 at least. The best way to get talent is the draft, whether it's drafting that player or building up trade assets to trade for that player.
