Let's talk Robert Williams

[sportfan6197]

Williams will be better than Bam if he can stay healthy

At rebounding and blocking shots, if he can stay healthy, offensively unlikely they are only few months apart in age. Right now on offense Bam is WAY ahead.

I'm not so sure of that. Bam has been healthy and has played and started far more minutes and games. Rob's also only in his third year in the league. Bam has been better featured and used by his coach hand as higher assist numbers from that combination minutes and coaching, but I've seen enough to be convinced Rob is at least Bam's equal in capability there. Already Rob is ahead of Bam by most advanced stats, including on O.

Bam has taken some 3s, but is still a career .159 beyond the arc. Rob's one career attempt from the 3 was a heave, but from the other distances, Rob's career percentages to Bam's are .809 to .723 from 0-3, .563 to .426 from 3-10, .571 to .411 from 10-16, and .294 to .307 (with Bam's edge on that last distance mostly from his higher combined frequency and percentage in this, his 4th season). My guess is that Rob will be stretched out to the 3 by next season, but is not the kind of player to take 3s until or unless he is competent at that distance.

Overall Rob has a career .724 career TS% and hasn't been below .700 in any season, whereas Bam is at .606 in TS% over his four seasons, with this his highest year at .627. I submit that by minutes on an NBA floor Rob is actually at least equal to Bam in assist rate and actually a fair amount ahead on most shooting metrics--just less advantagiously coached in terms of use and usage.

Bam is all defensive team level... I love timelords blocks but he no where close to elite defensively and Bam is very young still as well

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves

[FlatearthZorro]

Again this is small sample (min 5 games played) but among starting centers, here are Rob's ranks in advanced stats:
• Offensive Rating: 1st
• Net Rating: 1st
• Assist %: 5th
• Assist-Turnover Ratio: 1st
• Assist Ratio: 1st
• Turnover Ratio: 5th
• True Shooting %: 3rd
• Player Impact Estimate: 3rd (behind Embiid and Jokic)

He's been much more impactful on offense than on defense, despite the gaudy raw steals and blocks numbers.

I've already forgotten who Daniel Theis is.

I *love* all this, no question, and yet find myself wondering: wasn’t Theis putting up crazy advanced stats with us as well (not this year, but last year), and Baynes before that?

Is there something about our team/system that makes whoever our starting C is (through a good stretch) look insanely good in terms of their advanced stats?

Theis is very savy on defense. We had the 4th best regular season defense with him as our starter. Best in the playoffs. He knows what to do on offense and his shooting stats were good cause he didn't take that many shots.

I'd assume we just had/have good bigs.

[cloverleaf]

Again this is small sample (min 5 games played) but among starting centers, here are Rob's ranks in advanced stats:
• Offensive Rating: 1st
• Net Rating: 1st
• Assist %: 5th
• Assist-Turnover Ratio: 1st
• Assist Ratio: 1st
• Turnover Ratio: 5th
• True Shooting %: 3rd
• Player Impact Estimate: 3rd (behind Embiid and Jokic)

He's been much more impactful on offense than on defense, despite the gaudy raw steals and blocks numbers.

I've already forgotten who Daniel Theis is.

I *love* all this, no question, and yet find myself wondering: wasn’t Theis putting up crazy advanced stats with us as well (not this year, but last year), and Baynes before that?

Is there something about our team/system that makes whoever our starting C is (through a good stretch) look insanely good in terms of their advanced stats?

Not on the same level at all. Just look at RW vs DT this year:

PER 27.6 vs. 15.2,
WS/48: .280 vs. .135,
BPM 7.1 vs. 0.2, and
VORP 1.8 vs. 0.6.

[Floody100]

Rob’s potential is through the roof. If he can work on some of his defensive efficiencies & his 3pt shot he’ll be a top 5 center consistently.

[cloverleaf]

At rebounding and blocking shots, if he can stay healthy, offensively unlikely they are only few months apart in age. Right now on offense Bam is WAY ahead.

I'm not so sure of that. Bam has been healthy and has played and started far more minutes and games. Rob's also only in his third year in the league. Bam has been better featured and used by his coach hand as higher assist numbers from that combination minutes and coaching, but I've seen enough to be convinced Rob is at least Bam's equal in capability there. Already Rob is ahead of Bam by most advanced stats, including on O.

Bam has taken some 3s, but is still a career .159 beyond the arc. Rob's one career attempt from the 3 was a heave, but from the other distances, Rob's career percentages to Bam's are .809 to .723 from 0-3, .563 to .426 from 3-10, .571 to .411 from 10-16, and .294 to .307 (with Bam's edge on that last distance mostly from his higher combined frequency and percentage in this, his 4th season). My guess is that Rob will be stretched out to the 3 by next season, but is not the kind of player to take 3s until or unless he is competent at that distance.

Overall Rob has a career .724 career TS% and hasn't been below .700 in any season, whereas Bam is at .606 in TS% over his four seasons, with this his highest year at .627. I submit that by minutes on an NBA floor Rob is actually at least equal to Bam in assist rate and actually a fair amount ahead on most shooting metrics--just less advantagiously coached in terms of use and usage.

Bam is all defensive team level... I love timelords blocks but he no where close to elite defensively and Bam is very young still as well

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves

Personally I think Rob will be there very soon--and already may be in terms of net defensive effect, but my response of course was to the OP's claim as to an offensive game only comparison.

[Gomes3PC]

At rebounding and blocking shots, if he can stay healthy, offensively unlikely they are only few months apart in age. Right now on offense Bam is WAY ahead.

I'm not so sure of that. Bam has been healthy and has played and started far more minutes and games. Rob's also only in his third year in the league. Bam has been better featured and used by his coach hand as higher assist numbers from that combination minutes and coaching, but I've seen enough to be convinced Rob is at least Bam's equal in capability there. Already Rob is ahead of Bam by most advanced stats, including on O.

Bam has taken some 3s, but is still a career .159 beyond the arc. Rob's one career attempt from the 3 was a heave, but from the other distances, Rob's career percentages to Bam's are .809 to .723 from 0-3, .563 to .426 from 3-10, .571 to .411 from 10-16, and .294 to .307 (with Bam's edge on that last distance mostly from his higher combined frequency and percentage in this, his 4th season). My guess is that Rob will be stretched out to the 3 by next season, but is not the kind of player to take 3s until or unless he is competent at that distance.

Overall Rob has a career .724 career TS% and hasn't been below .700 in any season, whereas Bam is at .606 in TS% over his four seasons, with this his highest year at .627. I submit that by minutes on an NBA floor Rob is actually at least equal to Bam in assist rate and actually a fair amount ahead on most shooting metrics--just less advantagiously coached in terms of use and usage.

Bam is all defensive team level... I love timelords blocks but he no where close to elite defensively and Bam is very young still as well

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves

Bam is a much sounder defender at this stage. More comfortable on the perimeter, doesn't fall for fakes as much, rarely screws up rotations.

That said, the leaps Robert has made this year on that end are as impressive as anything he's done on O. He is so much quicker on rotations, is making less mistakes, and learning how to play further from the rim. Maybe he's never where Bam is but Bam isn't the rim protector and rebounder Robert is either, so he can impact the game just as much in slightly different ways.

[cloverleaf]

I'm not so sure of that. Bam has been healthy and has played and started far more minutes and games. Rob's also only in his third year in the league. Bam has been better featured and used by his coach hand as higher assist numbers from that combination minutes and coaching, but I've seen enough to be convinced Rob is at least Bam's equal in capability there. Already Rob is ahead of Bam by most advanced stats, including on O.

Bam has taken some 3s, but is still a career .159 beyond the arc. Rob's one career attempt from the 3 was a heave, but from the other distances, Rob's career percentages to Bam's are .809 to .723 from 0-3, .563 to .426 from 3-10, .571 to .411 from 10-16, and .294 to .307 (with Bam's edge on that last distance mostly from his higher combined frequency and percentage in this, his 4th season). My guess is that Rob will be stretched out to the 3 by next season, but is not the kind of player to take 3s until or unless he is competent at that distance.

Overall Rob has a career .724 career TS% and hasn't been below .700 in any season, whereas Bam is at .606 in TS% over his four seasons, with this his highest year at .627. I submit that by minutes on an NBA floor Rob is actually at least equal to Bam in assist rate and actually a fair amount ahead on most shooting metrics--just less advantagiously coached in terms of use and usage.

Bam is all defensive team level... I love timelords blocks but he no where close to elite defensively and Bam is very young still as well

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves

Bam is a much sounder defender at this stage. More comfortable on the perimeter, doesn't fall for fakes as much, rarely screws up rotations.

That said, the leaps Robert has made this year on that end are as impressive as anything he's done on O. He is so much quicker on rotations, is making less mistakes, and learning how to play further from the rim. Maybe he's never where Bam is but Bam isn't the rim protector and rebounder Robert is either, so he can impact the game just as much in slightly different ways.

I agree with this. Bam is far more experienced and "sounder" for D on some levels at this point, but Rob's impact seems to be at least as great overall--without reaching his full potential. (Bam will probably improve some as well.)

[24istheLAW]

I can’t get enough of timelords super nova ascension. He’s been so unbelievably incredible and only improving I keep thinking about what his actual ceiling is. Uber athletic al Horford? Much better passing Ben Wallace? Just a flat out better deandre or a prime Blake Griffin?

He’s having a borderline Tatum level impact on games and his energy is so good for the team. Clearly all of those “character flaws” were a bunch of draft malarkey bull dude is a flat out class act.

I doubt the maturity concerns were a bunch of nothing. Forget Ainge and Stevens - every time the older players talked about him in the first 2 years, you always got the caveat "if he works hard" thrown in there. It doesn't have to be a big character slight on Rob, he might have just been relatively ill-prepared for the rigors of being a pro, and needed guidance.

Ambition can be a double-edged sword. Guys like Tatum, Brown and Rozier are uber-competitive, prideful and apply themselves to their craft. Jaylen could barely shoot or dribble when he entered the league, Rozier could barely shoot either. Tatum was a collegiate midrange scorer. The flip side of all that drive is they direct their energy into acquiring individual skills.

Rob might need/have needed some nudging along. But rather than have some grandiose personal ambition, he seems genuinely happy to just be part of the team, and content to apply himself to the dirty work. They've really missed that.

[cloverleaf]

I can’t get enough of timelords super nova ascension. He’s been so unbelievably incredible and only improving I keep thinking about what his actual ceiling is. Uber athletic al Horford? Much better passing Ben Wallace? Just a flat out better deandre or a prime Blake Griffin?

He’s having a borderline Tatum level impact on games and his energy is so good for the team. Clearly all of those “character flaws” were a bunch of draft malarkey bull dude is a flat out class act.

I doubt the maturity concerns were a bunch of nothing. Forget Ainge and Stevens - every time the older players talked about him in the first 2 years, you always got the caveat "if he works hard" thrown in there. It doesn't have to be a big character slight on Rob, he might have just been relatively ill-prepared for the rigors of being a pro, and needed guidance.

Ambition can be a double-edged sword. Guys like Tatum, Brown and Rozier are uber-competitive, prideful and apply themselves to their craft. Jaylen could barely shoot or dribble when he entered the league, Rozier could barely shoot either. Tatum was a collegiate midrange scorer. The flip side of all that drive is they direct their energy into acquiring individual skills.

Rob might need/have needed some nudging along. But rather than have some grandiose personal ambition, he seems genuinely happy to just be part of the team, and content to apply himself to the dirty work. They've really missed that.

I agree.

Rob was a small-town kid and rather the opposite than, say, the Tatum pro-basketball-player's son type, who had the best possible personal coaching and direction all through his youth. In that he reminds me of Perk and AlJeff who both came to the C's out of high school and needed guidance on the best level and way to train and practice, etc. Of course, he had health issues early on too. I don't think his commitment to work was likely low so much as knowledge and habits of the best way to work.

He doesn't seem to be the typical hot house-raised budding NBA star narcissist that litters the league (and yes, the C's) at this point. He seems to have character and a commitment to the team winning above personal accolades. But I think he is also driven and committed to developing into the best player that he can be.

[sportfan6197]

I'm not so sure of that. Bam has been healthy and has played and started far more minutes and games. Rob's also only in his third year in the league. Bam has been better featured and used by his coach hand as higher assist numbers from that combination minutes and coaching, but I've seen enough to be convinced Rob is at least Bam's equal in capability there. Already Rob is ahead of Bam by most advanced stats, including on O.

Bam has taken some 3s, but is still a career .159 beyond the arc. Rob's one career attempt from the 3 was a heave, but from the other distances, Rob's career percentages to Bam's are .809 to .723 from 0-3, .563 to .426 from 3-10, .571 to .411 from 10-16, and .294 to .307 (with Bam's edge on that last distance mostly from his higher combined frequency and percentage in this, his 4th season). My guess is that Rob will be stretched out to the 3 by next season, but is not the kind of player to take 3s until or unless he is competent at that distance.

Overall Rob has a career .724 career TS% and hasn't been below .700 in any season, whereas Bam is at .606 in TS% over his four seasons, with this his highest year at .627. I submit that by minutes on an NBA floor Rob is actually at least equal to Bam in assist rate and actually a fair amount ahead on most shooting metrics--just less advantagiously coached in terms of use and usage.

Bam is all defensive team level... I love timelords blocks but he no where close to elite defensively and Bam is very young still as well

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves

Bam is a much sounder defender at this stage. More comfortable on the perimeter, doesn't fall for fakes as much, rarely screws up rotations.

That said, the leaps Robert has made this year on that end are as impressive as anything he's done on O. He is so much quicker on rotations, is making less mistakes, and learning how to play further from the rim. Maybe he's never where Bam is but Bam isn't the rim protector and rebounder Robert is either, so he can impact the game just as much in slightly different ways.

Bam is all defensive team level... I love timelords blocks but he no where close to elite defensively and Bam is very young still as well

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves

Bam is a much sounder defender at this stage. More comfortable on the perimeter, doesn't fall for fakes as much, rarely screws up rotations.

That said, the leaps Robert has made this year on that end are as impressive as anything he's done on O. He is so much quicker on rotations, is making less mistakes, and learning how to play further from the rim. Maybe he's never where Bam is but Bam isn't the rim protector and rebounder Robert is either, so he can impact the game just as much in slightly different ways.

I agree with this. Bam is far more experienced and "sounder" for D on some levels at this point, but Rob's impact seems to be at least as great overall--without reaching his full potential. (Bam will probably improve some as well.)

You and the poster above are underselling Bam here.

It’s not just his experience. Bam is able to guard and switch onto practically any position. He was clamping Curry a few years ago. He does as good as anyone against Embiid KAT and Jokic.

His defensive versatility is arguably the best in the league after Giannis.


Bam isn’t the rim protector Rob is? What? Come on. Bam sonned this team at the rim last year. Miami had a top 10 defense last year. They have a top 3 defense this year with Butler missing 30% of games and KO/Duncan in the starting lineup all year.

I would love for Rob to model his game after KG/Bam but he’s still quite a bit away from sniffing that level

[Gomes3PC]

Bam is all defensive team level... I love timelords blocks but he no where close to elite defensively and Bam is very young still as well

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves

Bam is a much sounder defender at this stage. More comfortable on the perimeter, doesn't fall for fakes as much, rarely screws up rotations.

That said, the leaps Robert has made this year on that end are as impressive as anything he's done on O. He is so much quicker on rotations, is making less mistakes, and learning how to play further from the rim. Maybe he's never where Bam is but Bam isn't the rim protector and rebounder Robert is either, so he can impact the game just as much in slightly different ways.

Bam is a much sounder defender at this stage. More comfortable on the perimeter, doesn't fall for fakes as much, rarely screws up rotations.

That said, the leaps Robert has made this year on that end are as impressive as anything he's done on O. He is so much quicker on rotations, is making less mistakes, and learning how to play further from the rim. Maybe he's never where Bam is but Bam isn't the rim protector and rebounder Robert is either, so he can impact the game just as much in slightly different ways.

I agree with this. Bam is far more experienced and "sounder" for D on some levels at this point, but Rob's impact seems to be at least as great overall--without reaching his full potential. (Bam will probably improve some as well.)

You and the poster above are underselling Bam here.

It’s not just his experience. Bam is able to guard and switch onto practically any position. He was clamping Curry a few years ago. He does as good as anyone against Embiid KAT and Jokic.

His defensive versatility is arguably the best in the league after Giannis.


Bam isn’t the rim protector Rob is? What? Come on. Bam sonned this team at the rim last year. Miami had a top 10 defense last year. They have a top 3 defense this year with Butler missing 30% of games and KO/Duncan in the starting lineup all year.

I would love for Rob to model his game after KG/Bam but he’s still quite a bit away from sniffing that level

Please don't put KG and Bam together. Just, no.

Now that we've got that aside, as much Bam is sounder defensively, which we all have attested to, Timelord's has defensive physical traits that Bam just doesn't have. Bam is a good rim protector, Robert is elite. Bam is a very good rim protector, Robert is elite.

Bam is head and shoulders a better player, let's not confuse anything. Robert has just massively closed the gap over the last year IMO. And when we look at why we lost in the bubble, Bam was reason #1. Robert taking this kind of leap forward is huge for us.

Next step is to see if he can keep making an impact against the best of the best. Embiid will be a great test tomorrow. Soon after he will face KAT, Jokic, possibly AD (if healthy) and then Vucevic in short succession. By the end of this month, I think we will see just how much Robert can help us in a postseason-style environment.

[Hal14]

At rebounding and blocking shots, if he can stay healthy, offensively unlikely they are only few months apart in age. Right now on offense Bam is WAY ahead.

I'm not so sure of that. Bam has been healthy and has played and started far more minutes and games. Rob's also only in his third year in the league. Bam has been better featured and used by his coach hand as higher assist numbers from that combination minutes and coaching, but I've seen enough to be convinced Rob is at least Bam's equal in capability there. Already Rob is ahead of Bam by most advanced stats, including on O.

Bam has taken some 3s, but is still a career .159 beyond the arc. Rob's one career attempt from the 3 was a heave, but from the other distances, Rob's career percentages to Bam's are .809 to .723 from 0-3, .563 to .426 from 3-10, .571 to .411 from 10-16, and .294 to .307 (with Bam's edge on that last distance mostly from his higher combined frequency and percentage in this, his 4th season). My guess is that Rob will be stretched out to the 3 by next season, but is not the kind of player to take 3s until or unless he is competent at that distance.

Overall Rob has a career .724 career TS% and hasn't been below .700 in any season, whereas Bam is at .606 in TS% over his four seasons, with this his highest year at .627. I submit that by minutes on an NBA floor Rob is actually at least equal to Bam in assist rate and actually a fair amount ahead on most shooting metrics--just less advantagiously coached in terms of use and usage.

Bam is all defensive team level... I love timelords blocks but he no where close to elite defensively and Bam is very young still as well

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves

Time Lord is 4th in the NBA in defensive rating. Bam is tied for 31st.
Time Lord is tied for 1st in the NBA in blocks %. Bam is 22nd.
Time Lord is tied for 12th in the NBA in steal %. Bam is tied for 110th

Only category Bam has the edge on D, is defensive win shares (Bam is tied for 5th, Time Lord is tied for 44th) however that is the one category where a player's minutes factor in quite a bit (which is why there is a separate stat for Win Shares per 48 mins). Defensive Win Shares per 48 mins is not tracked - if it was, there's no question the gap between Time Lord and Bam would be much smaller considering Bam averages 33.6 mins and Time Lord only averages 18.4.

[JHTruth]

Again this is small sample (min 5 games played) but among starting centers, here are Rob's ranks in advanced stats:
• Offensive Rating: 1st
• Net Rating: 1st
• Assist %: 5th
• Assist-Turnover Ratio: 1st
• Assist Ratio: 1st
• Turnover Ratio: 5th
• True Shooting %: 3rd
• Player Impact Estimate: 3rd (behind Embiid and Jokic)

He's been much more impactful on offense than on defense, despite the gaudy raw steals and blocks numbers.

I've already forgotten who Daniel Theis is.

I *love* all this, no question, and yet find myself wondering: wasn’t Theis putting up crazy advanced stats with us as well (not this year, but last year), and Baynes before that?

Is there something about our team/system that makes whoever our starting C is (through a good stretch) look insanely good in terms of their advanced stats?

Theis was never even close to the player RW is already. Theis is a nice player who is in his perfect role in Chicago. Nice 20 min a night secondary big. He's not really a legit NBA starter.

I mean I appreciate Theis' workmanlike game. Guy would be a perfect back-up for us. Unfortunately Brad and the Celtics media have pumped him up so much here (just like Baynes) that he wouldn't accept that role at this point...

[BK_2020]

Some next-level homerism on display here in this thread.

[24istheLAW]

Theis was never even close to the player RW is already. Theis is a nice player who is in his perfect role in Chicago. Nice 20 min a night secondary big. He's not really a legit NBA starter.

I mean I appreciate Theis' workmanlike game. Guy would be a perfect back-up for us. Unfortunately Brad and the Celtics media have pumped him up so much here (just like Baynes) that he wouldn't accept that role at this point...

Theis put up with being on the bench all year when they had Marcus Morris. I'm sure he'd handle 15-20 minutes off the bench like a pro. The problem is more getting Stevens to make the change.

[Hal14]

Theis was never even close to the player RW is already. Theis is a nice player who is in his perfect role in Chicago. Nice 20 min a night secondary big. He's not really a legit NBA starter.

I mean I appreciate Theis' workmanlike game. Guy would be a perfect back-up for us. Unfortunately Brad and the Celtics media have pumped him up so much here (just like Baynes) that he wouldn't accept that role at this point...

Theis put up with being on the bench all year when they had Marcus Morris. I'm sure he'd handle 15-20 minutes off the bench like a pro. The problem is more getting Stevens to make the change.

No, the problem is we traded Theis to get under the cap.

Theis is making $5 mil a year now. After getting that $5 mil a year contract he then had his 2 best seasons of his career (last year and this year). So obviously he's in for a payday this offseason. Someone is going to be willing to give him $7-$9 mil a year. It would be dumb for the Celtics to march that and pay a guy that much who's only gonna play 15-20 mins a game.

[RodyTur10]

Theis was never even close to the player RW is already. Theis is a nice player who is in his perfect role in Chicago. Nice 20 min a night secondary big. He's not really a legit NBA starter.

I mean I appreciate Theis' workmanlike game. Guy would be a perfect back-up for us. Unfortunately Brad and the Celtics media have pumped him up so much here (just like Baynes) that he wouldn't accept that role at this point...

Theis put up with being on the bench all year when they had Marcus Morris. I'm sure he'd handle 15-20 minutes off the bench like a pro. The problem is more getting Stevens to make the change.

No, the problem is we traded Theis to get under the cap.

Theis is making $5 mil a year now. After getting that $5 mil a year contract he then had his 2 best seasons of his career (last year and this year). So obviously he's in for a payday this offseason. Someone is going to be willing to give him $7-$9 mil a year. It would be dumb for the Celtics to march that and pay a guy that much who's only gonna play 15-20 mins a game.

Aren't we doing that exact thing with Tristan Thompson?

I'd give up a first round pick to switch Thompson to Theis (on a longterm deal) for the same salary, as long as there's an understanding that Timelord is going to be the starting center getting around 30 MPG.

[ParticleMan]

Rob has always been able to have a high impact when he's played. But there's always been two issues:
(i) injury. guy couldn't stay healthy.
(ii) dumb mistakes, particularly on D. not like subtle ones either, really obvious ones. this is the big thing that has improved with rob this year. it's still not ideal (how many more times is he going to foul a 3pt shooter?), but SO much better than he was even last year. that's why he's getting minutes now.

theis showed up, and almost never made mistakes. that's why he played over rob, at least until this year. kudos to rob for working hard to fix his weaknesses. now let's just hope he's learned to stay healthy. rob is the future, and the future is now. TT is a reasonable backup, again a guy who plays within himself and does certain things well. if kornet or wagner can beat him out, great.

[Hal14]

Theis put up with being on the bench all year when they had Marcus Morris. I'm sure he'd handle 15-20 minutes off the bench like a pro. The problem is more getting Stevens to make the change.

No, the problem is we traded Theis to get under the cap.

Theis is making $5 mil a year now. After getting that $5 mil a year contract he then had his 2 best seasons of his career (last year and this year). So obviously he's in for a payday this offseason. Someone is going to be willing to give him $7-$9 mil a year. It would be dumb for the Celtics to march that and pay a guy that much who's only gonna play 15-20 mins a game.

Aren't we doing that exact thing with Tristan Thompson?

I'd give up a first round pick to switch Thompson to Theis (on a longterm deal) for the same salary, as long as there's an understanding that Timelord is going to be the starting center getting around 30 MPG.

1) Ainge's vision was Thompson as starting center. We got killed by Bam Adebayo in the playoffs last year and he wanted a guy who was bigger, better interior defender, better rebounder than Theis, better inside scorer too, and it helped that Thompson had NBA finals experience. So Ainge signed Thompson to take over as starting center - that's why he paid him $9 mil a year on a 2 year deal.

2) Theis is only having a slightly better season than Thompson. A lot of metrics have them pretty close. Thompson is a better rebounder - they're close defensively. Defense and rebounding are really the 2 main things we need from that position. Since there's not much separating them, I don't think I would have thrown in a 1st round pick in order to trade Thompson instead of Theis. Plus, who knows, maybe Ainge tried doing that and still no wanted Thompson..

3) If Time Lord is starting center and getting 30 MPG, it doesn't make sense to pay anyone (Theis or Thompson) $9 mil a year, not to mention neither of them would sign for $9 mil a year to be a backup when any other team in the league willing to offer them $9 mil a year is going to start them. Obviously if given the choice and $ is the same, you're going to go where you can start, not where you can play 15-18 mins a game off the bench.

[Bleeding Green]

No, the problem is we traded Theis to get under the cap.

Theis is making $5 mil a year now. After getting that $5 mil a year contract he then had his 2 best seasons of his career (last year and this year). So obviously he's in for a payday this offseason. Someone is going to be willing to give him $7-$9 mil a year. It would be dumb for the Celtics to march that and pay a guy that much who's only gonna play 15-20 mins a game.

Aren't we doing that exact thing with Tristan Thompson?

I'd give up a first round pick to switch Thompson to Theis (on a longterm deal) for the same salary, as long as there's an understanding that Timelord is going to be the starting center getting around 30 MPG.

1) Ainge's vision was Thompson as starting center. We got killed by Bam Adebayo in the playoffs last year and he wanted a guy who was bigger, better interior defender, better rebounder than Theis, better inside scorer too, and it helped that Thompson had NBA finals experience. So Ainge signed Thompson to take over as starting center - that's why he paid him $9 mil a year on a 2 year deal.

2) Theis is only having a slightly better season than Thompson. A lot of metrics have them pretty close. Thompson is a better rebounder - they're close defensively. Defense and rebounding are really the 2 main things we need from that position. Since there's not much separating them, I don't think I would have thrown in a 1st round pick in order to trade Thompson instead of Theis. Plus, who knows, maybe Ainge tried doing that and still no wanted Thompson..

3) If Time Lord is starting center and getting 30 MPG, it doesn't make sense to pay anyone (Theis or Thompson) $9 mil a year, not to mention neither of them would sign for $9 mil a year to be a backup when any other team in the league willing to offer them $9 mil a year is going to start them. Obviously if given the choice and $ is the same, you're going to go where you can start, not where you can play 15-18 mins a game off the bench.

Then why did he sign Thompson who is a worse interior defender than Theis? Thompson is ass in the paint and can't defend the rim. One of the least effective scoring bigs in the NBA as well. If they can't use Thompson's contract in a trade by the next trade deadline, then it was an egregiously stupid signing. I don't know what the vision was with Thompson, but this is the same guy who signed Jeff Teague too, so I'm not sure if there even was a vision. Probably just had the MLE and wanted to use it.