The Official Cunningham vs Suggs Thread #Tank4Either

[tdotrep2]

top 5 is definitely insane this year, would of been a huge boost but alas in typical raptors fashion, win a bunch of unnecessary games when it would of been really beneficial to lose

[VanWest82]

You guys are out to lunch. Davion Mitchell is going top 10 and likely won't even be available when we're picking. He's going to make all star teams.

Other than his age what exactly is it about his game that people don't like? He has a great NBA body. He's super explosive off the bounce. He can shoot off the dribble, including step backs. He's a decent play maker. He's a terrific defender, like incredible actually. It's Donovan Mitchell lite crossed with Jrue Holiday.

You may be right about Mitchell going top-10, but I would actually argue the opposite of what you're arguing.

You see Mitchell being physically jacked as a positive for his future...I see it as a ceiling cap.

When we view draftees' upside, we evaluate their future progress - how do we think they will improve 1) skill level 2) physical maturity. For college guys who are already jacked, improvement via #2 is off the table - so their upside is limited only to #1.

Call it the Joey Graham/Rafael Araujo effect. Guys dominate in college because of their physical maturity, but take that advantage away in the NBA, and it's tough times.

I put Kuminga in the same bucket as Mitchell. To me, the elite tier in this draft is the top-4, not the top-5.

Agree on the bolded.

wrt the rest, I'd argue work ethic and a demonstrated ability to continue improving are better indicators of future progress than physical maturity, especially for guards. The fact that Mitchell got so much better after sitting out a year, and then got so much better again this year is a really good sign for his long-term development.

I'd also add that good athletes with a good handle who can shoot off the dribble almost always pan out unless they're not physical enough or suck defensively which arguably Mitchell's two biggest attributes.

[ATLTimekeeper]

top 5 is definitely insane this year, would of been a huge boost but alas in typical raptors fashion, win a bunch of unnecessary games when it would of been really beneficial to lose

Don't worry, it's almost a certainty that 2 of them underwhelm. People relax on the hype pretty much as soon as the summer league is over. No one is really considering that any of these guys will bust or just be another Aaron Gordon.

[Indeed]

who would you rather have for a 2nd round big, Bassey or Queta?

Want to wait for the combine in knowing their lane agility and shooting potential. I am also interested in Isaiah Mobley.
If we are drafting Kai Jones, I wonder if we need another big. I suppose we may look at 3+D forward instead of C?

[HeadtopChunes]

who would you rather have for a 2nd round big, Bassey or Queta?

Want to wait for the combine in knowing their lane agility and shooting potential. I am also interested in Isaiah Mobley.
If we are drafting Kai Jones, I wonder if we need another big. I suppose we may look at 3+D forward instead of C?

if we keep our picks I'd try to get one center and one forward, but if we use our first on a big (Mobley, kai, garuba), etc, then maybe 2 forwards or if a decent guard falls.

Bassey seems like a better to shoot to me, since he actually takes 3s and is a slightly better midrange shooter, (also a way better finisher) but Queta has a playmaking element that Bassey doesn't have.

[raptor jesus]

top 5 is definitely insane this year, would of been a huge boost but alas in typical raptors fashion, win a bunch of unnecessary games when it would of been really beneficial to lose

Every draft a narrative forms that "this is an {insert number} player draft", and it almost always turns out to be nonsense i.e. a handful of players picked beyond the exclusive club turn out to be better NBA players. I would agree there are occasions where winning games can negatively alter the course of a franchise (e.g. Raps missing out on Curry in '09, Lillard in '12 due to winning meaningless games), but if you scout well enough, you can find great players throughout the draft.

[Kurtz]

You guys are out to lunch. Davion Mitchell is going top 10 and likely won't even be available when we're picking. He's going to make all star teams.

Other than his age what exactly is it about his game that people don't like? He has a great NBA body. He's super explosive off the bounce. He can shoot off the dribble, including step backs. He's a decent play maker. He's a terrific defender, like incredible actually. It's Donovan Mitchell lite crossed with Jrue Holiday.

You may be right about Mitchell going top-10, but I would actually argue the opposite of what you're arguing.

You see Mitchell being physically jacked as a positive for his future...I see it as a ceiling cap.

When we view draftees' upside, we evaluate their future progress - how do we think they will improve 1) skill level 2) physical maturity. For college guys who are already jacked, improvement via #2 is off the table - so their upside is limited only to #1.

Call it the Joey Graham/Rafael Araujo effect. Guys dominate in college because of their physical maturity, but take that advantage away in the NBA, and it's tough times.

I put Kuminga in the same bucket as Mitchell. To me, the elite tier in this draft is the top-4, not the top-5.

Kuminga was playing in the G-League with grown men.

Oh indeed - and he did it at 18 which is amazing. He'll be the youngest player taken in the lotto. But if you look at his tape - he's already pretty filled out physically. Compare him to his teammate, Green, who is older but still slight of build and has much more evolution/upside on that end.

[Indeed]

who would you rather have for a 2nd round big, Bassey or Queta?

Want to wait for the combine in knowing their lane agility and shooting potential. I am also interested in Isaiah Mobley.
If we are drafting Kai Jones, I wonder if we need another big. I suppose we may look at 3+D forward instead of C?

if we keep our picks I'd try to get one center and one forward, but if we use our first on a big (Mobley, kai, garuba), etc, then maybe 2 forwards or if a decent guard falls.

Bassey seems like a better to shoot to me, since he actually takes 3s and is a slightly better midrange shooter, (also a way better finisher) but Queta has a playmaking element that Bassey doesn't have.

I actually think their offense are rather similar. Both showed a capable jump shot, while both are similar in Ass/TO ratio. Maybe Bassey plays a faster pace game, while Queta a slower pace game.

However, I have not found them defending stretch 5 on the parameter, which is something more important to me.

Bassey:

Watch on YouTube

Queta:

Watch on YouTube

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

top 5 is definitely insane this year, would of been a huge boost but alas in typical raptors fashion, win a bunch of unnecessary games when it would of been really beneficial to lose

Stank Face Anderson has taken the form of Garrison Trent Jr.

[HeadtopChunes]

Want to wait for the combine in knowing their lane agility and shooting potential. I am also interested in Isaiah Mobley.
If we are drafting Kai Jones, I wonder if we need another big. I suppose we may look at 3+D forward instead of C?

if we keep our picks I'd try to get one center and one forward, but if we use our first on a big (Mobley, kai, garuba), etc, then maybe 2 forwards or if a decent guard falls.

Bassey seems like a better to shoot to me, since he actually takes 3s and is a slightly better midrange shooter, (also a way better finisher) but Queta has a playmaking element that Bassey doesn't have.

I actually think their offense are rather similar. Both showed a capable jump shot, while both are similar in Ass/TO ratio. Maybe Bassey plays a faster pace game, while Queta a slower pace game.

However, I have not found them defending stretch 5 on the parameter, which is something more important to me.

they are both paint protectors not versatile bigs yeah, still think there's value in that though

Also I think your stats are wrong, their AST/TOs are very different (Queta is positive but Bassey is negative), Queta runs offense through the post while Bassey doesn't pass much.

[Psubs]

who would you rather have for a 2nd round big, Bassey or Queta?

Queta as he's got a lot more skills. Both from small conferences. Queta won his conference DPOY and he's a national DPOY finalist. I think the stat of the day was 2.5 assists and 2.5 blocks!!!! Also his A/T is greater than 1.

Really if Jalen Smith jumps up to #10, if the Raptors fall to like #11, I would trade down and take him in the teens and like Josh Christopher as a SG/SF project off the bench (like James Harden).

[BoyzNTheHood]

who would you rather have for a 2nd round big, Bassey or Queta?

Let's compare:

Bassey is 20 (21 by the start of next season)
Queta is 21 (22 by the start of next season)

Bassey is listed at 6'11" 235 pounds with a reported 7'3" wingspan
Queta is listed at 7'0" 245 pounds with a reported 7'4" wingspan

Bassey is averaging 17.6/11.6/0.7 with 3.1 blks and 59/30/76 shooting splits in just over 30 minutes per game
Queta is averaging 14.9/10.1/2.7 with 3.3 blks and 56/0/71 shooting splits in exactly 30 minutes per game

For advanced stats:

Keep in mind Utah State played in a tougher conference and had a tougher overall schedule than Western Kentucky.

Bassey has a .643 TS%, Queta has a .592 TS%
Bassey has a 61.7 eFG%, Queta has a 55.9 eFG%
Bassey has a PER of 32.6, Queta has a PER of 30.4
Bassey has a WS of 5.4, Queta has a WS of 5.8
Bassey has a BPM of 9.1, Queta has a BPM of 12.1

Personally, I'd probably lean more towards Queta. It's so close that I'll nitpick and say that Bassey has returned from a pretty bad injury so that could be something that bothers him in the future. Also, Queta won more at the collegiate level in a tougher conference.

[Psubs]

who would you rather have for a 2nd round big, Bassey or Queta?

Let's compare:

Bassey is 20 (21 by the start of next season)
Queta is 21 (22 by the start of next season)

Bassey is listed at 6'11" 235 pounds with a reported 7'3" wingspan
Queta is listed at 7'0" 245 pounds with a reported 7'4" wingspan

Bassey is averaging 17.6/11.6/0.7 with 3.1 blks and 59/30/76 shooting splits in just over 30 minutes per game
Queta is averaging 14.9/10.1/2.7 with 3.3 blks and 56/0/71 shooting splits in exactly 30 minutes per game

For advanced stats:

Keep in mind Utah State played in a tougher conference and had a tougher overall schedule than Western Kentucky.

Bassey has a .643 TS%, Queta has a .592 TS%
Bassey has a 61.7 eFG%, Queta has a 55.9 eFG%
Bassey has a PER of 32.6, Queta has a PER of 30.4
Bassey has a WS of 5.4, Queta has a WS of 5.8
Bassey has a BPM of 9.1, Queta has a BPM of 12.1

Personally, I'd probably lean more towards Queta. It's so close that I'll nitpick and say that Bassey has returned from a pretty bad injury so that could be something that bothers him in the future. Also, Queta won more at the collegiate level in a tougher conference.

Thanks for the info. The passing skills are pretty big plus. Bassey is like most of the bigs.

Queta reminds of a rich man's Bebe.

[DG88]

Watch on YouTube

[Psubs]

Watch on YouTube

I think he can run the Bench Mob for a couple of years.

[Spates]

Watch on YouTube

His live dribble passing while sucking in the defense is impressive. His strengths should translate.

His shooting is worrisome.

[metafisical]

top 5 is definitely insane this year, would of been a huge boost but alas in typical raptors fashion, win a bunch of unnecessary games when it would of been really beneficial to lose

Every draft a narrative forms that "this is an {insert number} player draft", and it almost always turns out to be nonsense i.e. a handful of players picked beyond the exclusive club turn out to be better NBA players. I would agree there are occasions where winning games can negatively alter the course of a franchise (e.g. Raps missing out on Curry in '09, Lillard in '12 due to winning meaningless games), but if you scout well enough, you can find great players throughout the draft.

I agree that you can find great players throughout the draft and even among the undrafted. However, I think the goal should be to try to find that franchise altering player whenever you can -- we can develop, keep and/or trade that player. We missed out on Curry and Lillard by two draft positions in both '09 and '12. Two only.

Anyway, my point is that when we are going to be bad, we might as well be REALLY bad. Like top 5 bad. When we are good, I want us to play like contenders (even if we are not). I just don't want us to be in that lukewarm middle ground where we are neither-nor.

[Indeed]

if we keep our picks I'd try to get one center and one forward, but if we use our first on a big (Mobley, kai, garuba), etc, then maybe 2 forwards or if a decent guard falls.

Bassey seems like a better to shoot to me, since he actually takes 3s and is a slightly better midrange shooter, (also a way better finisher) but Queta has a playmaking element that Bassey doesn't have.

I actually think their offense are rather similar. Both showed a capable jump shot, while both are similar in Ass/TO ratio. Maybe Bassey plays a faster pace game, while Queta a slower pace game.

However, I have not found them defending stretch 5 on the parameter, which is something more important to me.

they are both paint protectors not versatile bigs yeah, still think there's value in that though

Also I think your stats are wrong, their AST/TOs are very different (Queta is positive but Bassey is negative), Queta runs offense through the post while Bassey doesn't pass much.

Bassey seems to be quicker on both end, while Queta is definitely a better shot blocker in the half court set. I don't think Queta will translate with his post game, so I might prefer Bassey as an energy big off the bench. Really need to see their lane agility, if Bassey does not have the edge on the quickness, Queta would be preferred between the two.

Will look at Jericho Sims, Ibou Dianko Badji and Osun Osunniyi as well.

[Son Goku 25]

The size, power and name alone should get him drafted

Watch on YouTube

[T-d0t]

Scottie Barnes is nice but I would hate to draft a one-way player even though that one way is defence.