Victory Cigar!!! BOS 101, NYK 99 (26-26)

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

The team didn't fold and fought hard against a team that on paper has less talent. Of course with this team talent isn't necessarily the issue how the pieces fit is. So yeah, I am not going to get super excited about the Celtics beating an average Knicks team who is now the 8th seed in the east,

Team will win against the t-wolves then lose to the nuggets because they cannot beat good teams as the march to finish the season below or at 500 continues.

[31to6]

Didn’t see it. But just from the box score I’ll give it to Brown. Anybody know why Kornet didn’t play? The fact Grant Williams is getting minutes over him is pretty mind-boggling.

Brad Stevens coaches this team. 'Nuff said

So we are going to play Kornet at the 4 now? Get real people. Kornet didn't play, because Thompson was back and he was one of our best players.

Yeah, Kornet on Randle is not what we want.
It was fine. Luke K. will be ready to do his thing next time his number is called.

[tlee324]

Jaylen's efficiency is really being compared to Smart's right now? They aren't on the same planet. I'd be horrified if Smart's usage were at 30+. He plays his role well; giving him more responsibility, or assuming he could take on more and all factors would be the same, is a mistake, in my opinion.

It sure is. While I clearly went in on all 3 of our stars pretty equally there, the entire basis for Jaylen being paid nearly twice as much money as Smart is his play on the offensive end. And yet, he creates for no one, turns it over frequently, barely gets to the line, and can't convert when he does. Notwithstanding the fact that Smart is a better defender, the offensive efficiency gap between them is nowhere near as large as posters here seem to think. Like, demonstrably.

The salaries are important here. Smart is not supposed to proved Kemba/Tatum/Jaylen salary-level impact on a Tony Snell contract. Why is that even remotely expected, other than the fact that our star players have been consistently broken down for like 4-4.5 seasons now?

In the end, I don't blame Ainge, Jaylen, or anyone else for why we are here, but here we are. My point here is simply that giving Smart such a big piece of the blame so consistently at that contract while not recognizing his contributions and the lackings of other higher-paid players and a supporting cast full of young scrubs is perhaps a failure to understand basketball on an incredibly basic, fundamental level. Ainge, Stevens, and several front offices seem to side with me on that, IMO. Smart is literally the least of our problems.

I didn't see anyone here blaming Smart for anything. I said his fans overlook his flaws because the mistakes he makes are usually based on aggressiveness not passivity.

Brown, for the minutes he plays and frequency he has the ball, at 2.7 turnovers per game, is hardly a turnover machine, even at per 36 minutes, and per 100 possessions. One is a utility PG/SG and the other is a starting SG/SF who's primary role is to put the ball in the basket, and he does so very efficiently. Both need to do their parts and both need improvements in specific areas, but hell no, if it came down to it, I'm going with Brown in the long run if we even had to determine who to keep, if that's what this discussion is turning into.

[Shak_Celts]

BCGM be honest, when brown was on his rookie pay were you arguing about how people criticized him based on his pay vs. others? No, you were the ring leader in criticism. I don't know how much his $ was on his rookie contract as a 3rd pick because they are high these days, but I'm relatively certain he made less than Smart last season and you were very hard on him regardless! Now he's making more you start bringing money into as if it's not the same old bias!

I agree about what you're saying about Smart, but I also see why you are really saying it.

[philing00]

Why was Grant playing clutch minutes? If I were the Knicks, I’d ignore his offense, just like the rest of his teammates.
When he plays defense, I’d isolate him. Taj Gibson can shoot over him in the post while the rest of the team can drive past him for a layup all day.
Give his minutes to Romeo.

[bucknersrevenge]

The good:

Well we won. And we needed to beat NYK who was the 7th seed while we were the 8th seed so this was important. We get back to .500 again. That's a good thing. We made enough plays to win an ugly game. Sometimes you win ugly in this league and at this point in the season, the way THIS season has gone, style points don't matter for ****. Marcus had a big 4thQ with I think 15 of his 17 including a HUGE 3 to give us the lead for good. Added 9 assists as well so I guess I give him the VC.?? I dunno, who cares, really? Jaylen bullied his way to 32/10. Tatum added 25/10/5 and Thompson came back from his hiatus to pitch in a solid game with rebounding and energy off the bench. Langford started in Kemba's absence. It was nice to see that vote of confidence in him. We shook off some bad shooting and hit some clutch 3's (Marcus in the 4th for a change) and rebounded enough to secure a win.

The bad:

Yes we won, but let's call a spade a spade, we were an unmitigated disaster for much of this game. The basketball gods clearly owing us one (they owe us several by my count with all these last player games) helped us get the bounces we needed to put away a Knicks team that for much of this game looked like they were going to steal it. We have got to be one of the dumbest teams in the league. No cap. We are an extraordinarily low IQ ballclub. The fact that this game was a battle between a 7 and an 8 seed belies the fact that neither team really looks like they belong in the playoffs at all. But they will get there. 20 more turnovers today on offense as we continue to isolate while players stand in the corner and pretend to look ready for passes that will never come their way and when they do, they fumble the ball out of bounds or it gets taken. Guys drive into the paint, stop, have nowhere to go and are forced to kick the ball ALL the way out which ends in an iso. You can set your watch by it. Tatum 8 turnovers tonight. 2 away from an ugly triple-double. Jaylen scored a lot early to start the game but his tunnel vision will continue to hurt this team. He had put up 12 shots before the fans could even get settled in their seats. Rob had an off-game and where he had been the fulcrum of good passing and movement in the last 2 wins, the offense bogged down tonight and he had little effect. On defense we continue to leave 3 point shooters wide the F open. We don't communicate on D and teams gouge us for it. 16 3's given up tonight. I mean you can set your watch to it by now. Wins are important but winning habits are just as important and we don't have any. There's not a ton in this win to really get excited about.

I know I keep beating the same Drum, but isn't much of our problems the coaches responsibility to Fix?? Good Habits developed, rewarded while bad habits are admonished in some way?

"Not enough practice time?" is the only thing I can come up with.

[CeltsfanSinceBirth]

At least we didn’t get destroyed by the Knicks at home again. I’ll take the W, regardless of how ugly it was, because wins have been far from easy all year.

[BRUNiNHO91]

I'm going to value this win. This team is well coached and are the #1 defensice team in the NBA. To catch them on a back to back with like 40ppg on the injury list and still coming out with a W is cool.

I thought Smart was trash until his giant balls of steel came into play when it mattered the most. Jaylen was awesome all night. Tristan probably just won his starting job back lol

Pritchard keeps taking some really deep three's and I don't understand it.

I feel like Tatum being a B- star lately is the reason for our struggles. He needs to go back to being that A+ killer we saw in the playoffs. Covid really **** this kid over.

[Bad-Thoma]

I'm going to value this win. This team is well coached and are the #1 defensice team in the NBA. To catch them on a back to back with like 40ppg on the injury list and still coming out with a W is cool.

I thought Smart was trash until his giant balls of steel came into play when it mattered the most. Jaylen was awesome all night. Tristan probably just won his starting job back lol

Pritchard keeps taking some really deep three's and I don't understand it.

I feel like Tatum being a B- star lately is the reason for our struggles. He needs to go back to being that A+ killer we saw in the playoffs. Covid really **** this kid over.

I'm with you on this other than Smart being trash at all, he played some great defense. Even when Randle tried to back him down he ended up kicking it out to someone else. Everyone, no matter how good a defender, gets beat once in a while but Smart was disruptive as hell and did a nice job moving the ball and getting to the line.

[GoCeltics123]

Hey guys real quick, I've been working as a part-time video editor at KnicksFanTV for the last year and I called in to their show last night for postgame (the video starts around when I called in). I basically echoed the board's sentiments on the team if you guys want to hear it:

Watch on YouTube

[Taget]

King of the 4th.
King of the East.
King of the Mediocre Middle of the Eastern Conference

[Hal14]

The team didn't fold and fought hard against a team that on paper has less talent. Of course with this team talent isn't necessarily the issue how the pieces fit is. So yeah, I am not going to get super excited about the Celtics beating an average Knicks team who is now the 8th seed in the east,

Team will win against the t-wolves then lose to the nuggets because they cannot beat good teams as the march to finish the season below or at 500 continues.

You people who have such a pessimistic, negative outlook on the team, why even bother watching the games and following them?

You're like someone who hates cupcakes, yet you continue to make cupcakes and eat cupcakes everyday...then go on the internet complaining about how "cupcakes suck"

Give it a rest.

This was a good win. I'll take it.

-The Knicks had the no. 1 ranked defense coming in (in terms of opponent's FG%, opponent's 3 point % and opponent's points per game)
-we were playing shorthanded without 2 of our top 4 scorers (Kemba, Fournier)
-we were coming off a loss to the Sixers, a game where we weren't even close to have a shot at winning
-This was 2nd night of a back to back for the Celtics, whereas the Knicks had an extra day of rest
-No Kemba, and we were 1-6 in our last 7 games without him
-The last time we played the Knicks we got destroyed by 30, it was probably the worst game we've played all year
-While the Knicks are in mid season form, we had 1 guy returning to action after missing 3 weeks (Thompson) and we had another guy (Langford) who was playing in just his 3rd game all year
-We gave a combined 38 mins to 2 guys (Grant and Semi) who probably don't even belong on an NBA roster

And yet, we still won. We grinded it out. Tatum and Brown had a few plays that make you scream at your TV but overall they were awesome. People hate on Smart for his shooting and tell him to stop shooting 3's, especially in the clutch but he proved those people wrong with 2 big 3's late, including the biggest shot of the game at the end. Thompson gave us some really good toughness, rebounding, shot blocks and inside presence. We were down by 5 late in the game and then just a couple mins later we were up by 6. That 11 point turnaround was huge. Usually we're the ones blowing a game like that in the end and struggling to close out games. This was very positive to actually close out a game strong (even though next time we have to do better at not leaving Barrett to open all the time).

This was a big win. The Knicks were tied with us in the standings so now we move past them and can own the tie-breaker vs them if we win the next time we play them (which unfortunately is also on 2nd night of a back to back) but we should have Fournier back by then.

And as for your "march to finish the season below or at 500" comment, what makes you so certain we will finish at or below .500? We have had key players miss more games to injury/illness than any team in the league...it's not even close:

https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/celtics/evan-fournier-absence-highlights-celtics-brutal-luck-covid

That article talks specifically about COVID. If you also take injuries into account (many games missed to injury for Kemba, Smart, Brown, Pritchard, Langford, Time Lord, etc.) it's even more painfully obvious the disadvantage the Celtics have had this season. We're no. 1 ranked in the league this season in terms of games missed by key players to injury/illness. If we were even close to middle of the pack in that category, we'd be 29-23 right now, probably even 30-22. We're healthier now than we've been all year - especially once Fournier comes back, I see no reason we can't make a good run here down the stretch.

Oh and we can't beat good teams?
a) Let's see how we do against good teams with a fully healthy squad. We still have played literally zero games with Tatum/Brown/Smart/Walker/Thompson/Time Lord/Fournier/Langford/Pritchard all together
b) We've beaten the Clippers twice, we've beaten the Bucks twice, we beat the Nuggets, the Hawks, the Grizzlies, the Hornets (all teams over .500 and we beat the Pacers and Warriors (both were over .500 at the time we beat them)

[Green89]

Brown easily. Smart had a great 4th, but he essentially took the first 3 quarters off.

[JJHondo17]

VC goes to Smartacus. They don't win the game without him.

[Hal14]

I'm going to value this win. This team is well coached and are the #1 defensice team in the NBA. To catch them on a back to back with like 40ppg on the injury list and still coming out with a W is cool.

I thought Smart was trash until his giant balls of steel came into play when it mattered the most. Jaylen was awesome all night. Tristan probably just won his starting job back lol

Pritchard keeps taking some really deep three's and I don't understand it.

I feel like Tatum being a B- star lately is the reason for our struggles. He needs to go back to being that A+ killer we saw in the playoffs. Covid really **** this kid over.

I'm with you on this other than Smart being trash at all, he played some great defense. Even when Randle tried to back him down he ended up kicking it out to someone else. Everyone, no matter how good a defender, gets beat once in a while but Smart was disruptive as hell and did a nice job moving the ball and getting to the line.

Yeah it was a strong game for Smart. Really good defense, clutch shooting (including hitting the biggest shot of the game), 17 points to go with 9 assists, and brought some good energy/toughness/grittiness. No boneheaded plays. We really can't ask for more from him..

[makubesu]

The Knicks have some nice young guys in Quickley and Barret. You love to see a guy hound point guards for the length of the court.

As much as I love Time Lord, these past two games really showed that he’s not ready. Having Thompson to steady the ship is incredibly important.

It was a weirdly officiated game, and we got a lot of help on defense by the rim. But that was a very good win to bag.

[Feed Your Head]

Jaylen made shots in a game where points were very hard to come by. deserves the VC. tatum really has to learn how to play better when the opponent turns up the physicality. last two games have exposed him as a guy who you can be physical with and he will settle for bad shots and turn it over.

The turnovers were an issue, by far the most careless I’ve ever seen him be with the ball. But for the season Tatum has a 10.2 TO rate, Jaylen has an 11.5.

Jaylen went 12-26, Tatum 10-21. They both made shots in a game where points were hard to come by. Part of the reason Tatum settles for bad shots is because he’s the guy other defenses scheme around and try to force into bad shots. The other part of it is just bad habits that he still can’t shake.

[pac213up]

Brown was aggressive from the start taking it to the rim. More of that please.

[jfs1000d]

Brad Stevens coaches this team. 'Nuff said

So we are going to play Kornet at the 4 now? Get real people. Kornet didn't play, because Thompson was back and he was one of our best players.

Yeah, Kornet on Randle is not what we want.
It was fine. Luke K. will be ready to do his thing next time his number is called.

Grant is a 40% 3-point shooter. He is also solid. He's a bench guy and is very limited by his size. But, he can sit in the corner and drain shots. He can. He's proven it. If we had better ball movement as a team him and semi would be so much better than they are offensive. They can't create or score on their own, they aren't good enough. But if they are open they will knockdown shots.

WE HAVE TO PASS THE BALL.

[OldCeltics]

I can't believe we beat NY by 2 points. WOoooooooo hooooooo