Moderators: ken6199, Dirk, bisme37, KingDavid, bwgood77, zimpy27, cupcakesnake, Domejandro, infinite11285, Harry Garris
Mister Ze wrote:They cheaped out on paying Holiday an extension and now they're paying Bledsoe and Adams 72 million over the next 2 years - makes almost no sense.
Holiday - Ingram - Zion is a pretty good core to build around. I agree Griffin blew it.
LloydFree wrote:Roger Murdock wrote:I think that trade with the Hawks screwed them. Hunter or Garland would be perfect with the rest of their core.
Naaah. The trade was fine. The picks were bad, specifically Jaxon Hayes. You already got Zion. There was no way Hayes was going to develop or fit with him. When they traded back, they should have concentrated on wings to compliment Zion.
Of course the other issue that screwed them somewhat, is the mystifying Steven Adams - George Hill trade. Trade away a player that clearly fit with Zion's development, for a player that does nothing for Zion, but get in the way. Steven Adam's acquisition doesn't kill the franchise, because it's only two years, but it is the first Red Flag that David Griffin is nothing but another Bryan Colangelo (his mentor).
lambchop wrote:Needs LBJ to run the show again
“I didn’t watch the league, and I didn’t love the game anymore,” Griffin said. “I was so fixated on outcome that I just totally lost my joy.
“I was kind of chomping at the bit to do it right.”
With the Pelicans, Griffin will have the opportunity to build over the long-term.
“Culturally, I’ve always wanted to raise a family at a team,” Griffin said.
lessthanjake wrote:Kyrie was extremely impactful without LeBron, and basically had zero impact whatsoever if LeBron was on the court.
lessthanjake wrote: By playing in a way that prevents Kyrie from getting much impact, LeBron ensures that controlling for Kyrie has limited effect…
BK_2020 wrote:Mister Ze wrote:They cheaped out on paying Holiday an extension and now they're paying Bledsoe and Adams 72 million over the next 2 years - makes almost no sense.
Holiday - Ingram - Zion is a pretty good core to build around. I agree Griffin blew it.
Holiday is like 10 years older than Ingram. Holiday literally played with Allen Iverson and Elton Brand. He's not someone who belongs in a core of two guys in their early 20s.
clyde21 wrote:the Steven Adams trade (and the subsequent extension), not that Adams isn't a nice player, but it was like the LAST thing this team needed to put next to Zion at the moment, and it's not like it's helped them defensively at all.
it's a just a huge red flag for me because now I am not sure that Griffin understands modern NBA concepts or what he really has in Zion.
this guy inherited LeBron and lucked into Zion...possibly the two best talents we've seen in the NBA the last 2 decades...how many GMs can say this?
Jon1798 wrote:Sheesh, where to start with some of this.....
Pels traded the #24 pick in a bad 2020 draft for Adam’s to be sure on that part.
For the love of god, I wish there was a way to broadcast that Bledsoe’s deal isn’t fully guaranteed. It’s a virtual expiring this summer.
Pelicans didn’t just trade 4 for 8 and 17. They traded 4 for 8, 17, 35, two cleveland seconds including this years high second, and they got out of the Solomon Hill deal.
Everyone knows that Jaxson, NAW and Kira have looked great right? I feel like there is a massive hole in this part of the discussion. Who says Darius Garland is better than NAW? I love Hunter, so don’t get me wrong. But he is 23. Jaxson is 20. Jaxson Hayes at 23 years old will be a completely different human being. But he has really come on this year. As were Naw and Kira before they both got hurt recently. If given the option, I take Hunter today. Just to be clear. I would not take Garland or the others.
In short, Griffin traded his two best players the past two offseasons for future draft picks. Shocker, they haven’t been world beaters afterwards. Bledsoe and Adam’s have not worked. But not for any of the reasons that people generally say. Realize that the Pelicans have been the league’s best offense for most of the time since Zion became point Zion.
Bledsoe has not played defense. I don’t know what to say about it. My assumption is his age has caught up to him already, because he can’t stay in front of anyone. And Adam’s also has not been a real rim protector. His rebounding has been top notch, and his screen setting has been important. But he has probably hurt the defense more than helped, and lately has forgotten how to catch the ball. Bledsoe will be used as a contract this offseason. Adam’s may be a bigger issue, though not crushing in my opinion.
Zion still has not completed a full season yet. Deep breaths here.
Leslie Forman wrote:Warriors Analyst wrote:Leslie Forman wrote:What, the guy who wanted Anthony Bennett isn't any good at his job? Shocking.
That was Chris Grant.
Nope.So when the Cavs front office sat down before the draft to cast their vote on who to take, the final tally was 9-1 in favor of Bennett. The one vote against taking him? Chris Grant.
You can blame Grant for not putting his foot down and overruling, but that's it.
Duke4life831 wrote:These are the major moves he has made since being hired to run the Pelicans.
Traded the #4 overall pick (ended up being Deandre Hunter) for the 8th and 17th pick (Jaxson Hayes and NAW).
Hired SVG
Drafted Kira Lewis with the 13th pick
Traded Jrue for 3 1st round picks (2023, 2025, 2027) and two pick swaps (2024 and 2026) from the Bucks and Eric Bledsoe and his contract
Traded the 2023 1st round pick from the Jrue trade to OKC for Steven Adams, then gave Steven Adams an extension right away
Then you got the nonsense from SVG. Not even attempting Bledsoe to be a 6th man. Its like that thought hasnt ever crossed his mind once, even though Bledsoe has been horrible and is an awful fit with that starting lineup. Then the defense, I mean the worst team defending the 3 and the worst team defending 6 feet and in. Cant ask for a worse defense than that in today's game.
mg wrote:Jon1798 wrote:Sheesh, where to start with some of this.....
Pels traded the #24 pick in a bad 2020 draft for Adam’s to be sure on that part.
For the love of god, I wish there was a way to broadcast that Bledsoe’s deal isn’t fully guaranteed. It’s a virtual expiring this summer.
Pelicans didn’t just trade 4 for 8 and 17. They traded 4 for 8, 17, 35, two cleveland seconds including this years high second, and they got out of the Solomon Hill deal.
Everyone knows that Jaxson, NAW and Kira have looked great right? I feel like there is a massive hole in this part of the discussion. Who says Darius Garland is better than NAW? I love Hunter, so don’t get me wrong. But he is 23. Jaxson is 20. Jaxson Hayes at 23 years old will be a completely different human being. But he has really come on this year. As were Naw and Kira before they both got hurt recently. If given the option, I take Hunter today. Just to be clear. I would not take Garland or the others.
In short, Griffin traded his two best players the past two offseasons for future draft picks. Shocker, they haven’t been world beaters afterwards. Bledsoe and Adam’s have not worked. But not for any of the reasons that people generally say. Realize that the Pelicans have been the league’s best offense for most of the time since Zion became point Zion.
Bledsoe has not played defense. I don’t know what to say about it. My assumption is his age has caught up to him already, because he can’t stay in front of anyone. And Adam’s also has not been a real rim protector. His rebounding has been top notch, and his screen setting has been important. But he has probably hurt the defense more than helped, and lately has forgotten how to catch the ball. Bledsoe will be used as a contract this offseason. Adam’s may be a bigger issue, though not crushing in my opinion.
Zion still has not completed a full season yet. Deep breaths here.
Griffin has been terrible. You can justify it however you like but trading a FRP for Adams was horrible. Extending Adams was a bad move esp since he doesn't fit with Zion. Passing on Hunter for a bunch of quarters was another bad trade esp when they need another wing to play with Ingram. I don't think the SVG hiring for today's NBA was great either but that is just my subjective opinion.
Fischella wrote:I think none of you guys that are pro-Embiid no how basketball works today.. is way easier to win it all with Omer Asik than Olajuwon.
Actually if you ask me which Center I want for my perfect championship caliber team, I will chose Asik hands down
TwitterFingers wrote:clyde21 wrote:the Steven Adams trade (and the subsequent extension), not that Adams isn't a nice player, but it was like the LAST thing this team needed to put next to Zion at the moment, and it's not like it's helped them defensively at all.
it's a just a huge red flag for me because now I am not sure that Griffin understands modern NBA concepts or what he really has in Zion.
this guy inherited LeBron and lucked into Zion...possibly the two best talents we've seen in the NBA the last 2 decades...how many GMs can say this?
How did you expect Griff to know what he had in Zion after Zion’s rookie year? We’re still continuing to find out things about Zion, as we are early into his nba career. I’m not saying Griff has done an overall good job, but I disagree with your perspective
TwitterFingers wrote:clyde21 wrote:the Steven Adams trade (and the subsequent extension), not that Adams isn't a nice player, but it was like the LAST thing this team needed to put next to Zion at the moment, and it's not like it's helped them defensively at all.
it's a just a huge red flag for me because now I am not sure that Griffin understands modern NBA concepts or what he really has in Zion.
this guy inherited LeBron and lucked into Zion...possibly the two best talents we've seen in the NBA the last 2 decades...how many GMs can say this?
How did you expect Griff to know what he had in Zion after Zion’s rookie year? We’re still continuing to find out things about Zion, as we are early into his nba career. I’m not saying Griff has done an overall good job, but I disagree with your perspective
clyde21 wrote:TwitterFingers wrote:clyde21 wrote:the Steven Adams trade (and the subsequent extension), not that Adams isn't a nice player, but it was like the LAST thing this team needed to put next to Zion at the moment, and it's not like it's helped them defensively at all.
it's a just a huge red flag for me because now I am not sure that Griffin understands modern NBA concepts or what he really has in Zion.
this guy inherited LeBron and lucked into Zion...possibly the two best talents we've seen in the NBA the last 2 decades...how many GMs can say this?
How did you expect Griff to know what he had in Zion after Zion’s rookie year? We’re still continuing to find out things about Zion, as we are early into his nba career. I’m not saying Griff has done an overall good job, but I disagree with your perspective
what? i knew what Zion was in HS. it wasn't that difficult to know what you have in Zion lol.
AthensBucks wrote:Lowry is done.
Nurse is below average at best.
Masai is overrated.
I dont get how so many people believe in the raptors,they have zero to chance to win it all.
TwitterFingers wrote:clyde21 wrote:TwitterFingers wrote:
How did you expect Griff to know what he had in Zion after Zion’s rookie year? We’re still continuing to find out things about Zion, as we are early into his nba career. I’m not saying Griff has done an overall good job, but I disagree with your perspective
what? i knew what Zion was in HS. it wasn't that difficult to know what you have in Zion lol.
Yeah ok. It wasn’t until recently that we all found out that Zion was a capable offense initiator in the NBA.
clyde21 wrote:TwitterFingers wrote:clyde21 wrote:
what? i knew what Zion was in HS. it wasn't that difficult to know what you have in Zion lol.
Yeah ok. It wasn’t until recently that we all found out that Zion was a capable offense initiator in the NBA.
uhm, maybe you should take a look at the Zion thread i started on THIS board back in 2018 about how he's a generational prospect, before he even took a single dribble at Duke.
TwitterFingers wrote:clyde21 wrote:TwitterFingers wrote:
Yeah ok. It wasn’t until recently that we all found out that Zion was a capable offense initiator in the NBA.
uhm, maybe you should take a look at the Zion thread i started on THIS board back in 2018 about how he's a generational prospect, before he even took a single dribble at Duke.
What’s that supposed to tell me? A lot of people had Zion pegged as a generational prospect, including me. It doesn’t mean you’re sure on how to use these guys before day one. How could if you haven’t seen them play a large enough sample size against NBA talent? That’s why you usually have to try different things before figuring it out.
