Rapinoe vs Green... who you got?

[Ryoga Hibiki]

-By contrast, anything you see in the WNBA is stuff everyone here can do and has done. Layups- Check. Bounce Passes-Check. 3 Pointers from less than NBA distance-Check.

Because this is a basketball forum...

Go on a tennis forum, and everyone can do and has done everything women's tennis players do.

the thing is that women can do the same things men do, in tennis.
the ball is slower but not really that much from a spectator standpoint (much slower on court, though, to the point there would be no match).
in basketball it's just night and day, two different sports.

Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

[lobosloboslobos]

so many **** in this thread. it's sad to imagine that many of you have sisters and daughters.

[Raps in 4]

-By contrast, anything you see in the WNBA is stuff everyone here can do and has done. Layups- Check. Bounce Passes-Check. 3 Pointers from less than NBA distance-Check.

Because this is a basketball forum...

Go on a tennis forum, and everyone can do and has done everything women's tennis players do.

the thing is that women can do the same things men do, in tennis.
the ball is slower but not really that much from a spectator standpoint (much slower on court, though, to the point there would be no match).
in basketball it's just night and day, two different sports.

Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

The difference in performance between men and women in tennis is just as large.

Another event dubbed a "Battle of the Sexes" took place during the 1998 Australian Open[56] between Karsten Braasch and the Williams sisters. Venus and Serena Williams had claimed that they could beat any male player ranked outside the world's top 200, so Braasch, then ranked 203rd, challenged them both. Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple of bottles of ice cold lager".[57][56] The matches took place on court number 12 in Melbourne Park,[58] after Braasch had finished a round of golf and two shandies. He first took on Serena and after leading 5–0, beat her 6–1. Venus then walked on court and again Braasch was victorious, this time winning 6–2.[56] Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance". He added that he had played like someone ranked 600th in order to keep the game "fun"[59] and that the big difference was that men can chase down shots much easier and put spin on the ball that female players can't handle. The Williams sisters adjusted their claim to beating men outside the top 350.[56]

[TheDiesel36]

-By contrast, anything you see in the WNBA is stuff everyone here can do and has done. Layups- Check. Bounce Passes-Check. 3 Pointers from less than NBA distance-Check.

Because this is a basketball forum...

Go on a tennis forum, and everyone can do and has done everything women's tennis players do.

the thing is that women can do the same things men do, in tennis.
the ball is slower but not really that much from a spectator standpoint (much slower on court, though, to the point there would be no match).
in basketball it's just night and day, two different sports.

Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

Personally I love watching womens tennis and athletics as well, in my country the most revered sports figures are the tennis players and they are pullin in quite some money btw. I love watching them play and also Im amazed that a woman can run a hundred meter dash in 11,5s... But the basketball just seems so pedestrian and the players so underwhelming athletically that the product is just bad. I really dont understand the amount of whining coming out of the WNBA.

[TheDiesel36]

Because this is a basketball forum...

Go on a tennis forum, and everyone can do and has done everything women's tennis players do.

the thing is that women can do the same things men do, in tennis.
the ball is slower but not really that much from a spectator standpoint (much slower on court, though, to the point there would be no match).
in basketball it's just night and day, two different sports.

Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

The difference in performance between men and women in tennis is just as large.

Another event dubbed a "Battle of the Sexes" took place during the 1998 Australian Open[56] between Karsten Braasch and the Williams sisters. Venus and Serena Williams had claimed that they could beat any male player ranked outside the world's top 200, so Braasch, then ranked 203rd, challenged them both. Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple of bottles of ice cold lager".[57][56] The matches took place on court number 12 in Melbourne Park,[58] after Braasch had finished a round of golf and two shandies. He first took on Serena and after leading 5–0, beat her 6–1. Venus then walked on court and again Braasch was victorious, this time winning 6–2.[56] Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance". He added that he had played like someone ranked 600th in order to keep the game "fun"[59] and that the big difference was that men can chase down shots much easier and put spin on the ball that female players can't handle. The Williams sisters adjusted their claim to beating men outside the top 350.[56]

No its not, being a top 500 player in the whole world in tennis is quite a feat, whereas a top Euro or WNBA team would get demolished by a division 3 czech team.

[Doctor MJ]

3. Kuerten & Spaniards. Clay courters. Not to be taken seriously on real surfaces until they changed the real surfaces to be more like clay. (I should be clear that I have a lot of respect for those who can thrive on clay, but the play on clay is drastically different from the other surfaces and for many years you were either a clay guy or an "everything else" guy. Since the sport got its start on lawn rather than clay, to me this always made clay tennis a bit like playing basketball with trampolines.)

I think tennis was born as an indoor sport, mainly on stone/wooden courts prior to moving out to the lawn.

Ah, you mean real tennis. I'd tend to call that a different sport, but what I'd point out in general was that it was seen as a good thing if the ground beneath your feet was stable. Clay represents quite the extreme shift from my perspective.

I actually really respect people who are great on clay, but for those who haven't played on different surfaces, clay is very, very different from other surface in terms of being able to change your direction without falling down. For point of reference, here's the of clay court legends who are close to as tall as me:

Spoiler:

C'mon, didn't you already suspect the answer? There aren't any.

[Ryoga Hibiki]

Because this is a basketball forum...

Go on a tennis forum, and everyone can do and has done everything women's tennis players do.

the thing is that women can do the same things men do, in tennis.
the ball is slower but not really that much from a spectator standpoint (much slower on court, though, to the point there would be no match).
in basketball it's just night and day, two different sports.

Sent from my Nokia 3210 using RealGM mobile app

The difference in performance between men and women in tennis is also massive.

Another event dubbed a "Battle of the Sexes" took place during the 1998 Australian Open[56] between Karsten Braasch and the Williams sisters. Venus and Serena Williams had claimed that they could beat any male player ranked outside the world's top 200, so Braasch, then ranked 203rd, challenged them both. Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple of bottles of ice cold lager".[57][56] The matches took place on court number 12 in Melbourne Park,[58] after Braasch had finished a round of golf and two shandies. He first took on Serena and after leading 5–0, beat her 6–1. Venus then walked on court and again Braasch was victorious, this time winning 6–2.[56] Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance". He added that he had played like someone ranked 600th in order to keep the game "fun"[59] and that the big difference was that men can chase down shots much easier and put spin on the ball that female players can't handle. The Williams sisters adjusted their claim to beating men outside the top 350.[56]

I used to play tennis in my youth, and I was mediocre at best but good enough to compete with girls ranked nationally. I am well aware of that.
But we're not talking about competitiveness but quality of the product for a spectator.
The ball being slower is not a big deal on TV (arguably it's even better live), it doesn't ruin the quality of the entertainment.
It looks like the same sport.
For basketball it's absolutely not the case.

[KembaWalker]

mens athletes will be sayin the same stuff in about 15 years when the gravy train slows down. kids nowadays legit would rather watch some nerd play minecraft on youtube or league of legends on twitch than watch a sport

[Ambrose]

mens athletes will be sayin the same stuff in about 15 years when the gravy train slows down. kids nowadays legit would rather watch some nerd play minecraft on youtube or league of legends on twitch than watch a sport

The way the NBA is going I might prefer the WNBA in 15 years tbh

[Tomjas]

Rapinoe’s original stance on pay equality for footballers has been used by the media as click bait

Basically, the US Women’s Team is more successful and generates more revenue than the US Men’s Team but the ladies are paid less for representing their country

That definitely isn’t fair

As far as I am aware, she is not saying that she should be paid the same as Messi at Barcelona

[AingesBurner]

Rapinoe’s original stance on pay equality for footballers has been used by the media as click bait

Basically, the US Women’s Team is more successful and generates more revenue than the US Men’s Team but the ladies are paid less for representing their country

That definitely isn’t fair

As far as I am aware, she is not saying that she should be paid the same as Messi at Barcelona

It has nothing to do with the US, it has to do with FIBA you donkey.

[DubTheVanDamage]

NBA players have, overall, done an excellent job off the court, both in promoting themselves, building businesses, and speaking out. Instead of shrilly castigating Draymond for giving his advice, why not say, "Ok, show us how to do it. Let's team up."

Not a fan of the "shrilly" word choice as that language damages some good points you are otherwise making. Not trying to be all PC, just pointing out the clear connotation of that word.

But part of this is the Megan Rapinoe package, right? She's not perfect. She speaks too quickly, she's bold and aggressive. She's defending the woman she loves, etc....

But lots of WNBA players responded exactly as you wanted her to--you know the people more directly impacted. They asked him those very questions and he had nothing publicly to say in response. Now it wouldn't surprise me at all if he didn't reach out privately to some individuals. As I've stated all along, I think his intentions weren't bad. But he definitely spoke out of turn and we've seen him repeatedly take issue when others do the same to him. So of course he was going to get some backlash.

I chose "shrilly" for a reason, and that was the tone of the reply drowned out everything Megan said -- starting with an attack on the knowledge level and education on the issue of Draymond -- before addressing anything of substance -- was completely nonconstructive. Any response that starts with dismissing an opposing point of view as ignorant is almost always going to land with a thud. If Rapinoe is going to deal with NBA players in that manner, she probably won't get very far. And, if you're going to get PC, having a white athlete dismiss the opinion of an athlete of color as "uneducated" should be on your list.

I would also take exception with your claim of Draymond speaking out of turn -- I think he has a valid opinion here -- first of all, because he actually is a professional basketball player who indirectly (and potentially directly, if WNBA losses impact BRI) supports the WNBA. Draymond has every bit the right as Megan to speak on the issue, in my view.

As a final note, I have not looked at what other WNBA players said, but this was Bird's response:

@Money23Green read ur “thread” (@Jack help!) The things ur saying are the EXACT things we’ve been fighting for. We don’t ask for NBA money, we point out the discrepancy to highlight the lack of investment & coverage. You got the problem right, you just tagged the wrong ppl

While the tone was a bit less... sharp... than Megan's, Sue said pretty much the same thing -- "you tagged the wrong ppl" -- she missed the core of Green's message -- the WNBA players ARE the right people. They are the ones who have to do it. The NBA was almost bankrupt before Bird/Magic; then MJ, Kobe, and others elevated the league nationally and globally. If WNBA players don't take the lead, no one else will.

The WNBA is a failed product -- it has been a state of mild but nearly constant decline since its inception 25 years ago. Why would anyone invest in it? Why should the media or sponsors invest more? Bird seemingly wants others to lose more money (while she, personally, gets paid more money) in the hope that it'll eventually turn around. That seems improbable. Perhaps finding compelling personalities and narratives might generate more interest. Bird, Rapinoe and others might want to focus more attention on Paige than Draymond.

[Tomjas]

Rapinoe’s original stance on pay equality for footballers has been used by the media as click bait

Basically, the US Women’s Team is more successful and generates more revenue than the US Men’s Team but the ladies are paid less for representing their country

That definitely isn’t fair

As far as I am aware, she is not saying that she should be paid the same as Messi at Barcelona

It has nothing to do with the US, it has to do with FIBA you donkey.

Rapinoe’s ORIGINAL comments were in regards to football

[AingesBurner]

Rapinoe’s original stance on pay equality for footballers has been used by the media as click bait

Basically, the US Women’s Team is more successful and generates more revenue than the US Men’s Team but the ladies are paid less for representing their country

That definitely isn’t fair

As far as I am aware, she is not saying that she should be paid the same as Messi at Barcelona

It has nothing to do with the US, it has to do with FIBA you donkey.

Rapinoe’s ORIGINAL comments were in regards to football

I understand and the pay differential has to do with FIBA overall and not just the US paying players based on sex.

[G35]

If as much money was thrown at girl's sports as boy's, and if girls could see themselves making a sustainable living as professional athletes, perhaps there would be more skilled female athletes.

And there is a good reason not nearly as much money is invested into female sports. Its because little girls (generally) aren't keen on competitive competition as much as boys are. This isn't some evil conspiracy plan perpetrated over centuries of human civilization. Boys and girls are just different. Not just from a physical perspective but also a characteristic point of view.

Wow. This is some CLASSIC neanderthal right here. Congratulations.

I guess you also think that girls aren't well represented in areas like investments and engineering...because, you know, girls aren't that good with "math and science" stuff - right?

There are times I read posts on the GB and laugh at the stupidity...and then there are times where I read takes like this and have real concern for the world that my two daughters will enter - because of the prehistoric thinking of posts like this.

I agree, females can be just as competitive and aggressive as boys at an early age, and we need to stop coddling females.

[clyde21]

welp, there goes the thread

[Antinomy]

So some of you seem to think that “marketing“ is some kind of magic button. Marketing can only do so much.

If I’m looking for non-NBA basketball, I’d rather go see my local HS team play than watch a WNBA game.

Who is the WNBA’s target audience anyway?

[Pharmcat]

the amount of hate woman get is embodied in this thread. its obvious a large segment of the population has insecurities they cant adequately deal with so they take it out on women by bashing them.

[Pharmcat]

Rapinoe’s original stance on pay equality for footballers has been used by the media as click bait

Basically, the US Women’s Team is more successful and generates more revenue than the US Men’s Team but the ladies are paid less for representing their country

That definitely isn’t fair

As far as I am aware, she is not saying that she should be paid the same as Messi at Barcelona

It has nothing to do with the US, it has to do with FIBA you donkey.

do you feel better after insulting someone else?

[rapstarter]

I'd start with her point that its not just the job of the marginalized to fighting against it. Yes, absolutely women athletes have a responsibility if they want more pay to help to figure out new revenue streams, lots of female athletes including her not only acknowledge that but having been fighting those fights for years. Worth noting that the UWNT generated more revenue than the men in her sport and still got paid less.... Same thing has happened in tennis where they tried to use the 3 sets versus 5 argument and Serena and others were like okay we'll play 5 now pay us--which did eventually happen.

Only because the USWNT rejected the same offer that the Men accepted. There's a reason their claim was immediately dismissed by the judge. While I can respect and agree with a lot of what she said in this specific incident, the USWNT's obsession with trying to paint their fight as one against sexism only hurts their/her credibility.