Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread

[coldfish]

Only reason Bulls should keep Lauri is to ruin his career and only reason for Lauri to stay is to ruin his career, so really there no good reasons for either of them to sign for next year. Only way I see Lauri continuing in Bulls is that Bulls matches the offer sheet and Bulls probably would do that. You get more values from him if you match and trade than just let him walk without compensation. So s&t would be best solution for both.

There are teams who find better use for Lauri's skill set and who will give more freedom for him. Hopefully he finds that team.

Good post. Hopefully some team over the cap falls in love with Lauri and offers something good in trade for him.

[DuckIII]

Lauri still isn’t rebounding, defending or passing much.

Eh. In my experience watching Lauri when he’s physical and aggressive offensively, he’s a more lively defender as well. The rebounding can be explained to a degree by him playing small forward but, yeah, still not good.

His passing stinks though. Always has.

[Pentele]

Only reason Bulls should keep Lauri is to ruin his career and only reason for Lauri to stay is to ruin his career, so really there no good reasons for either of them to sign for next year. Only way I see Lauri continuing in Bulls is that Bulls matches the offer sheet and Bulls probably would do that. You get more values from him if you match and trade than just let him walk without compensation. So s&t would be best solution for both.

There are teams who find better use for Lauri's skill set and who will give more freedom for him. Hopefully he finds that team.

Exactly. Some say that Lauri is not good enough a player, some say that he is. It has been subjected to a heated debate, but I think there is plenty enough truth to both assertions (excluding ridiculous bum, trash, etc. comments). That is simply because there is reason to think that Markkanen is not the right type of player to have a future in the Bulls. As of late, that is in full view.

Nick Nurse, do you have something relevant to say about that?

"Markkanen was unbelievable, and he played 18 minutes. He was unbelievable. Every time he touched the ball something good happened. And every time we made a mistake he made us pay, and he is only out there for 18 minutes."

Yes, well said Nick Nurse, well said.

[DunkenDunk]

It’s funny but the primary thing Lauri is providing are those quick post ups. Something that your average NBA player isn’t big enough to do. Off ball shooting when you are wide open isn’t a rare trait. There are a legion of players that could shoot a very high percentage from 3 given the looks Lauri is getting. Lauri supporters have always said that others need to create for him and they are right now. Of course, those others could create the same for some journeymen 3/4 just the same.

But isn't 3 pointers and quick post ups one of the main ways forwards are supposed to do points? Yes, Stacy was very right in my opinion when he criticized for Lauri sometimes floating behind arc and he should take advantage on mismatch cases and park the bus under the basket to wait rebound or pass. But you can't do that all the time, there needs to be a space also to let the Center (Vucevic, Theis) to have space in there. Good teams spread and move the ball with 5-10 passes to find the good shooting position.

Maybe depends a little bit from the teams DNA. I loved to watch for example the Warriors game on 2015 when Curry, Klay, Green, Igu, Bogut and Livingstone moved the ball making everybody to feel being in disneyland. And once the Durant (no matter as talent he is) came to Warriors their game changed to much boring isolation game.

Lauri still isn’t rebounding, defending or passing much.

Actually I claim that in this year Lauri is able to do pretty good defence actions, he is 7.1 that makes him hard to be like Duracell bunny jumping to everywhere but more and more often in this year I have seen the smaller ones ends up playing the ball back to out instead of trying to challenge him under the rim. Clearly he is still having problems with real center type of guys but that's anyway the task of centers like Theis.

One thing I have paid attention is that once Lavine takes a shot behind arc, Lauri quite often starts already sliding to defence instead of attacking to take rebound. Maybe he should be more eager to rush for those but on the other hands good teams can do too easy points in 3 seconds with 1-2 long opening passes if nobody is waiting them in defence.

[DuckIII]

Only reason Bulls should keep Lauri is to ruin his career and only reason for Lauri to stay is to ruin his career, so really there no good reasons for either of them to sign for next year. Only way I see Lauri continuing in Bulls is that Bulls matches the offer sheet and Bulls probably would do that. You get more values from him if you match and trade than just let him walk without compensation. So s&t would be best solution for both.

There are teams who find better use for Lauri's skill set and who will give more freedom for him. Hopefully he finds that team.

Good post. Hopefully some team over the cap falls in love with Lauri and offers something good in trade for him.

I’ve become obsessed with the idea that the Bulls cannot lose Lauri, or the money to be spent on Lauri, for nothing. And it appears the only way the Bulls can have the capspace that they otherwise would have spent on Lauri, is to waive Thad and Sato, which now appears to be a terrible idea.

So it’s looking like we need a sign and trade or match him to retain an asset.

I like how this team is looking. I want to like “Win Now Thursday.” But with depleted assets we have to be very careful to not waste anything. The margin for error has narrowed significantly.

[Ice Man]

Nick Nurse, do you have something relevant to say about that?

"Markkanen was unbelievable, and he played 18 minutes. He was unbelievable. Every time he touched the ball something good happened. And every time we made a mistake he made us pay, and he is only out there for 18 minutes."

Yes, well said Nick Nurse, well said.

If I were giving the game ball for the Toronto game, I would have given it to either Zach or Lauri. That's how good Markkannen was. That's the guy we thought we would he would become, when he was a rookie.

[chefo]

Lauri right now is crushing it once he got his wits about him post demotion. Just for some context--FebruLauri, even though a mythical creature at this point, was a top 15 offensive player in the NBA, so at the very least, he has it in him. Now we have a player of that talent level coming off the bench.

The last 2 games, he's played like said mythical creature, except he now finishes at the rim not at 55% but at 70%+, so now he's moved into mythical beast category. I wouldn't call him the best Bulls player the last 2 games because he doesn't have the volume, minutes and touches, but we're back to getting insane production out of a guy who coach D straight up said "will not get featured any longer".

Lauri has scored 33 points on 17(!) shots the last 2 games, in 40 total minutes. Obviously, that's not sustainable, but even at 85% of the production, that's a very good player that we'd be idiots to lose for nothing.

I just hope that we haven't burnt that bridge by demoting him for a rook who's been the worst rotational player on the team outside of Coby, and for an over-the-hill Thad who can't play more than 20 minutes a game before getting completely gassed.

[DunkenDunk]

I’ve become obsessed with the idea that the Bulls cannot lose Lauri, or the money to be spent on Lauri, for nothing. And it appears the only way the Bulls can have the capspace that they otherwise would have spent on Lauri, is to waive Thad and Sato, which now appears to be a terrible idea.

So it’s looking like we need a sign and trade or match him to retain an asset.

I like how this team is looking. I want to like “Win Now Thursday.” But with depleted assets we have to be very careful to not waste anything. The margin for error has narrowed significantly.

I agree that team is now much better as there is real centers after so many years with failures on team building. Vucivuc kind of reliable paint player has bring needed balance and calmness to play. Even ball is moving better now. Earlier I felt that Arci and Thad were the only one able to share the ball in a way it needed but now whole team is kind of trusting to each other better.

And Theis has something similar type of reliability than Rod and is surely helping the defense that used to be the worst of all NBA teams after Dunn left. German version of Rodman type of hard work.

I hope Lauri is however not accepting any low ball long MLE;s from Uncle Scrooge... At least without asking some life wisdom from Pippen first.

[LateNight]

Lauri as a 6th man off the bench is great for us right now (this season) - in the future he might leave, maybe sign and trade - but right now this is good for both parties. Lauri has a track record as a starter, his stock was falling as a starter -- now he can go as a first option against bench guys, he'll look really good and his stats will hopefully continue to improve.

I understand Lauri might walk - but it was already looking like that would happen before we moved him to the bench. Getting to the playoffs and making a run with an efficient Lauri should put both teams in a really good position and hopefully we can make this work well for everyone involved.

[coldfish]

It’s funny but the primary thing Lauri is providing are those quick post ups. Something that your average NBA player isn’t big enough to do. Off ball shooting when you are wide open isn’t a rare trait. There are a legion of players that could shoot a very high percentage from 3 given the looks Lauri is getting. Lauri supporters have always said that others need to create for him and they are right now. Of course, those others could create the same for some journeymen 3/4 just the same.

But isn't 3 pointers and quick post ups one of the main ways forwards are supposed to do points? Yes, Stacy was very right in my opinion when he criticized for Lauri sometimes floating behind arc and he should take advantage on mismatch cases and park the bus under the basket to wait rebound or pass. But you can't do that all the time, there needs to be a space also to let the Center (Vucevic, Theis) to have space in there. Good teams spread and move the ball with 5-10 passes to find the good shooting position.

Maybe depends a little bit from the teams DNA. I loved to watch for example the Warriors game on 2015 when Curry, Klay, Green, Igu, Bogut and Livingstone moved the ball making everybody to feel being in disneyland. And once the Durant (no matter as talent he is) came to Warriors their game changed to much boring isolation game.

Lauri still isn’t rebounding, defending or passing much.

Actually I claim that in this year Lauri is able to do pretty good defence actions, he is 7.1 that makes him hard to be like Duracell bunny jumping to everywhere but more and more often in this year I have seen the smaller ones ends up playing the ball back to out instead of trying to challenge him under the rim. Clearly he is still having problems with real center type of guys but that's anyway the task of centers like Theis.

One thing I have paid attention is that once Lavine takes a shot behind arc, Lauri quite often starts already sliding to defence instead of attacking to take rebound. Maybe he should be more eager to rush for those but on the other hands good teams can do too easy points in 3 seconds with 1-2 long opening passes if nobody is waiting them in defence.

Sorry for bad formatting as I’m on mobile.
- I would advocate that people watch Theis if they want to see how Lauri’s position is supposed to be defended. He is just far more active and has a better feel for when to move.
- The Warriors ball movement is one of the primary reasons Lauri doesn’t fit. The Bulls move the ball and move well, which is why they have such great assist totals as a team. The guy who sticks out in not doing that is Lauri. He really kills a motion offense because he doesn’t move the ball.
- I think Lauri would do well on a Doncic or Lebron type team where one guy does all the creating. Lauri can move well off the ball and make open shots. Dallas would be a great fit for him as would LA. The Bulls simply don’t have the top end talent that some teams do and as a result, need more from their supporting players.

[sco]

Only reason Bulls should keep Lauri is to ruin his career and only reason for Lauri to stay is to ruin his career, so really there no good reasons for either of them to sign for next year. Only way I see Lauri continuing in Bulls is that Bulls matches the offer sheet and Bulls probably would do that. You get more values from him if you match and trade than just let him walk without compensation. So s&t would be best solution for both.

There are teams who find better use for Lauri's skill set and who will give more freedom for him. Hopefully he finds that team.

Good post. Hopefully some team over the cap falls in love with Lauri and offers something good in trade for him.

I’ve become obsessed with the idea that the Bulls cannot lose Lauri, or the money to be spent on Lauri, for nothing. And it appears the only way the Bulls can have the capspace that they otherwise would have spent on Lauri, is to waive Thad and Sato, which now appears to be a terrible idea.

So it’s looking like we need a sign and trade or match him to retain an asset.

I like how this team is looking. I want to like “Win Now Thursday.” But with depleted assets we have to be very careful to not waste anything. The margin for error has narrowed significantly.

Not that I expect it, but would Lauri signing for the QO and becoming a UFA in a year help us? It gets us a guy playing for a contract on a 1 year deal, and then Thad and Sato's contracts are up at same time.

[NecessaryEvil]

It’s funny but the primary thing Lauri is providing are those quick post ups. Something that your average NBA player isn’t big enough to do. Off ball shooting when you are wide open isn’t a rare trait. There are a legion of players that could shoot a very high percentage from 3 given the looks Lauri is getting. Lauri supporters have always said that others need to create for him and they are right now. Of course, those others could create the same for some journeymen 3/4 just the same.

But isn't 3 pointers and quick post ups one of the main ways forwards are supposed to do points? Yes, Stacy was very right in my opinion when he criticized for Lauri sometimes floating behind arc and he should take advantage on mismatch cases and park the bus under the basket to wait rebound or pass. But you can't do that all the time, there needs to be a space also to let the Center (Vucevic, Theis) to have space in there. Good teams spread and move the ball with 5-10 passes to find the good shooting position.

Maybe depends a little bit from the teams DNA. I loved to watch for example the Warriors game on 2015 when Curry, Klay, Green, Igu, Bogut and Livingstone moved the ball making everybody to feel being in disneyland. And once the Durant (no matter as talent he is) came to Warriors their game changed to much boring isolation game.

Lauri still isn’t rebounding, defending or passing much.

Actually I claim that in this year Lauri is able to do pretty good defence actions, he is 7.1 that makes him hard to be like Duracell bunny jumping to everywhere but more and more often in this year I have seen the smaller ones ends up playing the ball back to out instead of trying to challenge him under the rim. Clearly he is still having problems with real center type of guys but that's anyway the task of centers like Theis.

One thing I have paid attention is that once Lavine takes a shot behind arc, Lauri quite often starts already sliding to defence instead of attacking to take rebound. Maybe he should be more eager to rush for those but on the other hands good teams can do too easy points in 3 seconds with 1-2 long opening passes if nobody is waiting them in defence.

Sorry for bad formatting as I’m on mobile.
- I would advocate that people watch Theis if they want to see how Lauri’s position is supposed to be defended. He is just far more active and has a better feel for when to move.
- The Warriors ball movement is one of the primary reasons Lauri doesn’t fit. The Bulls move the ball and move well, which is why they have such great assist totals as a team. The guy who sticks out in not doing that is Lauri. He really kills a motion offense because he doesn’t move the ball.
- I think Lauri would do well on a Doncic or Lebron type team where one guy does all the creating. Lauri can move well off the ball and make open shots. Dallas would be a great fit for him as would LA. The Bulls simply don’t have the top end talent that some teams do and as a result, need more from their supporting players.

Dallas makes a lot of sense for Lauri.

[coldfish]

Only reason Bulls should keep Lauri is to ruin his career and only reason for Lauri to stay is to ruin his career, so really there no good reasons for either of them to sign for next year. Only way I see Lauri continuing in Bulls is that Bulls matches the offer sheet and Bulls probably would do that. You get more values from him if you match and trade than just let him walk without compensation. So s&t would be best solution for both.

There are teams who find better use for Lauri's skill set and who will give more freedom for him. Hopefully he finds that team.

Good post. Hopefully some team over the cap falls in love with Lauri and offers something good in trade for him.

I’ve become obsessed with the idea that the Bulls cannot lose Lauri, or the money to be spent on Lauri, for nothing. And it appears the only way the Bulls can have the capspace that they otherwise would have spent on Lauri, is to waive Thad and Sato, which now appears to be a terrible idea.

So it’s looking like we need a sign and trade or match him to retain an asset.

I like how this team is looking. I want to like “Win Now Thursday.” But with depleted assets we have to be very careful to not waste anything. The margin for error has narrowed significantly.

It’s going to be tough. Some team might give Lauri the $20m he wants which would be problematic. They just offer it and dare the Bulls to match.

Hopefully the Bulls can bluff teams into thinking they will match and allow the team to pick up a few assets for him.

I agree that the Bulls have a narrow window. They can’t just burn assets but they also can’t tie up $20m per year in a 6th man.

[FranchisePlayer]

Lauri right now is crushing it once he got his wits about him post demotion. Just for some context--FebruLauri, even though a mythical creature at this point, was a top 15 offensive player in the NBA, so at the very least, he has it in him. Now we have a player of that talent level coming off the bench.

The last 2 games, he's played like said mythical creature, except he now finishes at the rim not at 55% but at 70%+, so now he's moved into mythical beast category. I wouldn't call him the best Bulls player the last 2 games because he doesn't have the volume, minutes and touches, but we're back to getting insane production out of a guy who coach D straight up said "will not get featured any longer".

Lauri has scored 33 points on 17(!) shots the last 2 games, in 40 total minutes. Obviously, that's not sustainable, but even at 85% of the production, that's a very good player that we'd be idiots to lose for nothing.

I just hope that we haven't burnt that bridge by demoting him for a rook who's been the worst rotational player on the team outside of Coby, and for an over-the-hill Thad who can't play more than 20 minutes a game before getting completely gassed.[/b]

This is very good post by you, chefo, again! I bolded all the parts I disagree with you. That many, huh...

We, who recognize his talent, have done nothing wrong but supported him.

Those, who haven't put him in a position to thrive or who've replaced him with players of less talent, might have.

Certainly those, who concentrate and keep listing all his flaws and repeat the stuff ad nauseam, have been idiots since they haven't recognized that Lauri's pros way, way outweigh his cons. The sooner they stop, the less fools they come across.

I'd be amazed to see this team letting go such a versatile, stupendous scorer for free in favor of players with a low ceiling á la Young and Theis but it's not like it'd be the first dumb s****y move this organization has ever pulled off. Nor the last.

You can make the same points without calling people who disagree with you idiots and fools. Please treat all people with respect -Doug

[Hugi Mancura]

The question is why is his skill set exactly the same as it was when he entered the league?

Lack of natural ability, work ethic, basketball IQ, who knows. It's not like he's anything unique. Most players that come into this league don't actually change much from what they are their first few years.

Jimmy Butlers are incredibly rare. Lauri Markkanens, Ben Gordons, Luol Dengs, Eddy Currys, Kirk Hinrichs, Tony Snells, Doug McDermotts, etc. etc. are way more common. That's the majority of the league.

So you are saying players who put effort in training in their younger years and worked their asses off before they joined NBA are doing less work to become good than players who in their younger years put not effort of becoming good and just starts training when they arrive to NBA? Why do you think Lauri got picked at 7:th spot and Butler at 30:th spot? Was it because Lauri was way more skilled than Butler at that point, which means before joining to NBA he has trained harder than Butler. Or are you claiming Lauri was born with the ability to shoot and he had put no effort in training before joining NBA or after wards.

It is just usually people who have natural physical advantage over other people usually in their younger year do nothing to improve their skills because they beat other players only by their physical advantage. But Lauri has no physical attributes that put him over other players (he is tall and it really helps, but that is a curse and a blessing at the same time). But being a tall doesn't mean you are good shooter. To become a good shooter you must practice and then practice more. But player who have clear physical advantage usually find's in NBA that it doesn't mean anything because player who are in NBA are either as good physically than they are or are lousier physically than they are and have practiced their asses off to become as good players. So these are the players who suddenly wake up in reality, so they have two choices to become more skillful and become good players or stay where they are. But does that make them people who practice more?

[DuckIII]

Only reason Bulls should keep Lauri is to ruin his career and only reason for Lauri to stay is to ruin his career, so really there no good reasons for either of them to sign for next year. Only way I see Lauri continuing in Bulls is that Bulls matches the offer sheet and Bulls probably would do that. You get more values from him if you match and trade than just let him walk without compensation. So s&t would be best solution for both.

There are teams who find better use for Lauri's skill set and who will give more freedom for him. Hopefully he finds that team.

Exactly. Some say that Lauri is not good enough a player, some say that he is. It has been subjected to a heated debate, but I think there is plenty enough truth to both assertions (excluding ridiculous bum, trash, etc. comments). That is simply because there is reason to think that Markkanen is not the right type of player to have a future in the Bulls. As of late, that is in full view.

Nick Nurse, do you have something relevant to say about that?

"Markkanen was unbelievable, and he played 18 minutes. He was unbelievable. Every time he touched the ball something good happened. And every time we made a mistake he made us pay, and he is only out there for 18 minutes."

Yes, well said Nick Nurse, well said.

I smell a trade partner! Nurse hates Siakam. Nurse loves Lauri. Who says no? (Besides Masai Ujiri.)

[Ccwatercraft]

It’s funny but the primary thing Lauri is providing are those quick post ups. Something that your average NBA player isn’t big enough to do. Off ball shooting when you are wide open isn’t a rare trait. There are a legion of players that could shoot a very high percentage from 3 given the looks Lauri is getting. Lauri supporters have always said that others need to create for him and they are right now. Of course, those others could create the same for some journeymen 3/4 just the same.

No x&o expert but im sure there is a designated back on defense guy for all situations, he tends to hang on the perimeter so....

But isn't 3 pointers and quick post ups one of the main ways forwards are supposed to do points? Yes, Stacy was very right in my opinion when he criticized for Lauri sometimes floating behind arc and he should take advantage on mismatch cases and park the bus under the basket to wait rebound or pass. But you can't do that all the time, there needs to be a space also to let the Center (Vucevic, Theis) to have space in there. Good teams spread and move the ball with 5-10 passes to find the good shooting position.

Maybe depends a little bit from the teams DNA. I loved to watch for example the Warriors game on 2015 when Curry, Klay, Green, Igu, Bogut and Livingstone moved the ball making everybody to feel being in disneyland. And once the Durant (no matter as talent he is) came to Warriors their game changed to much boring isolation game.

Lauri still isn’t rebounding, defending or passing much.

Actually I claim that in this year Lauri is able to do pretty good defence actions, he is 7.1 that makes him hard to be like Duracell bunny jumping to everywhere but more and more often in this year I have seen the smaller ones ends up playing the ball back to out instead of trying to challenge him under the rim. Clearly he is still having problems with real center type of guys but that's anyway the task of centers like Theis.

One thing I have paid attention is that once Lavine takes a shot behind arc, Lauri quite often starts already sliding to defence instead of attacking to take rebound. Maybe he should be more eager to rush for those but on the other hands good teams can do too easy points in 3 seconds with 1-2 long opening passes if nobody is waiting them in defence.

[GrowingHorns]

It’s funny but the primary thing Lauri is providing are those quick post ups. Something that your average NBA player isn’t big enough to do. Off ball shooting when you are wide open isn’t a rare trait. There are a legion of players that could shoot a very high percentage from 3 given the looks Lauri is getting. Lauri supporters have always said that others need to create for him and they are right now. Of course, those others could create the same for some journeymen 3/4 just the same.

Lauri still isn’t rebounding, defending or passing much.

Playing like this, he is probably worth a little more than the mle. That said, some team is going to offer more and Lauri will want out due to not starting. Games like yesterday make him leaving for a trade exception more, not less, likely.

Passing has been the biggest worry for me, and also something they shoukd have tried to develop more through mistakes when we were in the start of rebuilding mode. It's something that some has more and some less, but now when we are in a win mode, the best hope is for him look lot of clips and follow our better passing bigs how they do it. I hope we blow out some of these teams before the late 4th, bc then we could run plays with Lauri and Coby and work some of them kinks in the garbage time. Of course theres's small amount of training in-season, but lot can be learned by paying attention to details. His defense and rebounding can do better by just pure effort, and to go ahead from that, ofc needs more nuances training and homework. But first steps are just the pure effort for them. (This defensive issue is also a too big of a problem with too many current Bulls, that sucks)

[edededtut]

I find it interesting that in a team that has had coby white and zach lavine as primary ballhandlers someone chooses to complain that ”lauri doesn’t move the ball” and that is a problem for the bulls ”motion offense”.

[GrowingHorns]

I find it interesting that in a team that has had coby white and zach lavine as primary ballhandlers someone chooses to complain that ”lauri doesn’t move the ball” and that is a problem for the bulls ”motion offense”.

Problems can co-exist, and our back-court has had their share of criticism. I love Lauri, but at one point he had 30 turnovers to 20 assists (pre asg break i guess...), so anyway you look at it, for his career he needs to get better with assisting his team-mates. Not Thad level great, but better.