2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2

[SmoothLefty21]

DX’s new mock has Davion Mitchell going #7 and has us picking Scottie Barnes at #10. Bouknight going at #17. If we take Scottie Barnes over Bouknight bruh..

And it looks like Davion is starting to become a pipe dream now. Man I was on this guy since February and nobody was talking about him now he’s going lottery smh

On the bright side they got us taking Ayo with the Mavs pick

Bouknight at 17? Holy ****.

I'd love to see their full list.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

The Mavs pick should be for a high potential player, someone young / raw that may not ever pan out but has such a high ceiling they're worth the risk.

[Deeeez Knicks]

The Mavs pick should be for a high potential player, someone young / raw that may not ever pan out but has such a high ceiling they're worth the risk.

I like that strategy to swing for the fences on one of the picks, maybe a more safer guy the other pick.

I wanted to go with the Haliburton/Hampton combo last draft.

[NewKnicks]

DX’s new mock has Davion Mitchell going #7 and has us picking Scottie Barnes at #10. Bouknight going at #17. If we take Scottie Barnes over Bouknight bruh..

And it looks like Davion is starting to become a pipe dream now. Man I was on this guy since February and nobody was talking about him now he’s going lottery smh

On the bright side they got us taking Ayo with the Mavs pick

You'll love Barnes from Day 1 if we are lucky enough to get him. He's a dog like RJ and IQ, and he'll make an impact right away.

He is but if we come out of another offseason with PG and shooting not being our top options then i'll be pissed. I love me some defense and if the PG and shooters can also play defense then that's a plus but i'm so sick of the Knicks not having a true PG.

I totally agree. If we have a shot at either Ayo or Sharife with the second pick I'll be happy though. But I completely agree with you. I just don't think we should reach for Mitchell just so we can say we took a PG.

[HerSports85]

The Mavs pick should be for a high potential player, someone young / raw that may not ever pan out but has such a high ceiling they're worth the risk.

It’ll be BJ Boston

[cgf]

So is Ziaire Williams just Cam Reddish 2.0?

Hopefully enough other teams think that he's another Reddish/Knox for us to snag him if we miss out on Keon & Bouknight...though after the interview process, I'm doubtful teams will be as concerned. I get why folks would have those concerns with Ziaire; lanky, sweet stroke, disappointing #s in college...but I am a lot more confident in Ziaire than I ever was in either Cam or Kevin. Not just because he seems to be a lot more resilient & intelligent, but also because he found ways to contribute for Stanford, even when he didn't get the touches to do so with the ball in his hands...like if Knox could play Defense as well as Ziaire did in his freshman year, he'd be undroppable from Thibs' rotation.

And Ziaire flashed his potential after recovering from his preseason bike crash & earning a larger role...at least until he had to leave the team due to a death in the family, which he returned from at the very end only to get banged up again, as the team leaned on its veterans to ride out the season. It was a really cursed season -- on top of all of the covid issues that everyone has had to deal with -- that made it hard for him to assert himself quickly on a veteran Stanford team.


Other than that my biggest critique would be just how scrawny he is right now; 99.9% of NBA prospects need to bulk up/grow into their bodies after getting drafted but Ziaire got pushed around when attacking the rim by kids who won't even sniff the GLeague. Until he adds that strength, he won't be able to finish over NBA bigs reliably enough for teams to fear his drives...which will limit how much damage he'll be able to do as a playmaker, even with his stroke & vision, and mean him building his game from the outside-in as he fills-out.

But I (an admitted fan of his as a prospect) am not too worried about that...especially given that Julius & RJ are both powerful slashers who have been building their games from the inside-out. Ziaire's length, athleticism, intelligence, stroke & defense should let him contribute in a Bullock-esque role while he develops his body & gains experience/polish...while providing some more on-ball creation, assuming he would start off with the second unit.


He won't be a day-one starter, but he should be able to contribute in a meaningful way early; with every reason to think he'll grow into a much bigger role as he develops...the kid just has it in him to change games with his defense, his ability to shoot off the dribble, and his vision; with the intelligence to make clever use of his talents. It would take some patience until he got there, but I'd love to watch Ziaire grow into the H2O to RJ's Spree.

[RHODEY]

The Mavs pick should be for a high potential player, someone young / raw that may not ever pan out but has such a high ceiling they're worth the risk.

It’ll be BJ Boston

Honest question...outside of hype why is Boston perceived to have a high ceiling?

[jvsimonetti0514]

So this year on the "let's compare a prospect to Frank" Game, I'm pitching Barnakina(Scotty Barnes) or Ziariakina(Ziaire Williams). Anyone else have any proposals?

[knickstape4ever]

The Mavs pick should be for a high potential player, someone young / raw that may not ever pan out but has such a high ceiling they're worth the risk.

It’ll be BJ Boston

Honest question...outside of hype why is Boston perceived to have a high ceiling?

in HS he showed ability to create/shoot off the dribble

I think his biggest weakness is lack of strength (same w/ Ziaire). he also he has bad body control when driving to the rim (similar to Knox), which is part strength but not entirely; Jalen Green lacks strength too, but he has outstanding body control (imagine when he bulks up )

[cgf]

As good as the guard play is in this game, there is no doubt the best player is Suggs and he's just a freshman

Suggs is going to be special. I know that's not groundbreaking analysis, but he's got all the skill, athleticism, and mental makeup to be great. You can tell the kid only wants to win as well. He was crying bigtime after that game.

At this point I'm taking Suggs over Cade. Not that Cade won't be great, I think he will, but Suggs is my #1. If you listen to his interviews, he seems like a really bright kid as well. And I doubt there will be any drama following him either. Seems like a great kid.

For me:

1. Suggs
2. Cade
3. Mobley
4. Green
5. Kominga
6. Scottie Barnes

Even though Kispert could have played better in this game, I still think he's going to be a Duncan Robinson type player. He's got surprisingly good hops, plays solid D, and seems like he also really wants to win. In today's NBA, Kispert type players are invaluable with the ability to shoot the lights out of the gym. He might make it into the top 10 before it's all said and done. Wouldn't surprise me at all.

What do you see in Scottie Barnes? I don't really get his appeal TBH cuz he's a complete 0 when it comes to scoring the ball.

Super-switchable potential defensive anchor who can create with the ball in his hands. If the shot becomes even decent, that's an intriguing pitch...especially when keeping in mind that the way FSU plays makes it hard for any single player to put up crazy #s.

I'm not buying his shot ever becoming average (at least right now) and have concerns about whether he ends up more of a Justice Winslow than an Odom or Draymond...and he's obviously a less than ideal fit next to Julius, so am not high on him for us...but I can see how folks would fall in love with his defense, playmaking and leadership, especially for teams that have a dynamic guard who can shoot, already.

[NewKnicks]

So is Ziaire Williams just Cam Reddish 2.0?

Hopefully enough other teams think that he's another Reddish/Knox for us to snag him if we miss out on Keon & Bouknight...though after the interview process, I'm doubtful teams will be as concerned. I get why folks would have those concerns with Ziaire; lanky, sweet stroke, disappointing #s in college...but I am a lot more confident in Ziaire than I ever was in either Cam or Kevin. Not just because he seems to be a lot more resilient & intelligent, but also because he found ways to contribute for Stanford, even when he didn't get the touches to do so with the ball in his hands...like if Knox could play Defense as well as Ziaire did in his freshman year, he'd be undroppable from Thibs' rotation.

And Ziaire flashed his potential after recovering from his preseason bike crash & earning a larger role...at least until he had to leave the team due to a death in the family, which he returned from at the very end only to get banged up again, as the team leaned on its veterans to ride out the season. It was a really cursed season -- on top of all of the covid issues that everyone has had to deal with -- that made it hard for him to assert himself quickly on a veteran Stanford team.


Other than that my biggest critique would be just how scrawny he is right now; 99.9% of NBA prospects need to bulk up/grow into their bodies after getting drafted but Ziaire got pushed around when attacking the rim by kids who won't even sniff the GLeague. Until he adds that strength, he won't be able to finish over NBA bigs reliably enough for teams to fear his drives...which will limit how much damage he'll be able to do as a playmaker, even with his stroke & vision, and mean him building his game from the outside-in as he fills-out.

But I (an admitted fan of his as a prospect) am not too worried about that...especially given that Julius & RJ are both powerful slashers who have been building their games from the inside-out. Ziaire's length, athleticism, intelligence, stroke & defense should let him contribute in a Bullock-esque role while he develops his body & gains experience/polish...while providing some more on-ball creation, assuming he would start off with the second unit.


He won't be a day-one starter, but he should be able to contribute in a meaningful way early; with every reason to think he'll grow into a much bigger role as he develops...the kid just has it in him to change games with his defense, his ability to shoot off the dribble, and his vision; with the intelligence to make clever use of his talents. It would take some patience until he got there, but I'd love to watch Ziaire grow into the H2O to RJ's Spree.

Great analysis. You should do more on individual players.

He's just too scrawny for my liking. It's going to take 5 years to grow into an NBA body. Kid has the narrowest shoulders I've seen in awhile. But the talent is definitely there.

[cgf]

So this year on the "let's compare a prospect to Frank" Game, I'm pitching Barnakina(Scotty Barnes) or Ziariakina(Ziaire Williams). Anyone else have any proposals?

If Frank was as comfortable shooting 3s off the bounce as Ziaire is, he'd be a starter right now. Barnes is a good shout, but as big forward, his lack of shooting gravity shouldn't be as big of an issue.

[louisorr]

If Jared Butler is truly a mid twenties pick then Knicks need to look at him. He is very Dame esque in his demeanor, size and skillset. He plays with an effortless style, unfazeable, efficient movements, deep range, plays within himself. stone cold clutch and pokerfaced. Willing to step up as the number one option or defer to other star teammates on a game to game basis. Great floor and hopefully a higher ceiling than he gets credit for. Love him at 20-25.

[cgf]

Can someone please be so kind and tell me what happened to Scottie Lewis. Wasn't he top 5 recruit coming out of highschool. Didn't hear much about him last year of this year.

He hit a ceiling offensively in college and couldn't take the next step with his skill level to break through it. Kid's still a ton of fun to watch defend and his shot's come along well enough to profile as a quality role player, but what on-ball potential people may have once thought he had is now definitely gone.

I still like him a lot for what he is, but a more defensively-dynamic version of Bullock is pretty much his best-case scenario.

[3toheadmelo]

So this year on the "let's compare a prospect to Frank" Game, I'm pitching Barnakina(Scotty Barnes) or Ziariakina(Ziaire Williams). Anyone else have any proposals?

barnakina is a good one but i don't really like the ziare comparison. ziare flashed a pretty good offensive game this season. hit a bunch of shots off the dribble and can throw dimes. just inconsistent cause of injuries, personal issues and super skinny. if we're swinging for the fences and going for a pure upside pick i would take ziare over bj boston hands down.

[3toheadmelo]

It’ll be BJ Boston

Honest question...outside of hype why is Boston perceived to have a high ceiling?

in HS he showed ability to create/shoot off the dribble

I think his biggest weakness is lack of strength (same w/ Ziaire). he also he has bad body control when driving to the rim (similar to Knox), which is part strength but not entirely; Jalen Green lacks strength too, but he has outstanding body control (imagine when he bulks up )

in college his handle looked more limited than it was in high school and that's because college is much more competitive. kevin knox was the same way. boston really can't create off the dribble that much besides driving to the rim at times. i don't see it with BJ boston. he's just living off his high school reputation. most mocks have him going in the second round now

[cgf]

So is Ziaire Williams just Cam Reddish 2.0?

Hopefully enough other teams think that he's another Reddish/Knox for us to snag him if we miss out on Keon & Bouknight...though after the interview process, I'm doubtful teams will be as concerned. I get why folks would have those concerns with Ziaire; lanky, sweet stroke, disappointing #s in college...but I am a lot more confident in Ziaire than I ever was in either Cam or Kevin. Not just because he seems to be a lot more resilient & intelligent, but also because he found ways to contribute for Stanford, even when he didn't get the touches to do so with the ball in his hands...like if Knox could play Defense as well as Ziaire did in his freshman year, he'd be undroppable from Thibs' rotation.

And Ziaire flashed his potential after recovering from his preseason bike crash & earning a larger role...at least until he had to leave the team due to a death in the family, which he returned from at the very end only to get banged up again, as the team leaned on its veterans to ride out the season. It was a really cursed season -- on top of all of the covid issues that everyone has had to deal with -- that made it hard for him to assert himself quickly on a veteran Stanford team.


Other than that my biggest critique would be just how scrawny he is right now; 99.9% of NBA prospects need to bulk up/grow into their bodies after getting drafted but Ziaire got pushed around when attacking the rim by kids who won't even sniff the GLeague. Until he adds that strength, he won't be able to finish over NBA bigs reliably enough for teams to fear his drives...which will limit how much damage he'll be able to do as a playmaker, even with his stroke & vision, and mean him building his game from the outside-in as he fills-out.

But I (an admitted fan of his as a prospect) am not too worried about that...especially given that Julius & RJ are both powerful slashers who have been building their games from the inside-out. Ziaire's length, athleticism, intelligence, stroke & defense should let him contribute in a Bullock-esque role while he develops his body & gains experience/polish...while providing some more on-ball creation, assuming he would start off with the second unit.


He won't be a day-one starter, but he should be able to contribute in a meaningful way early; with every reason to think he'll grow into a much bigger role as he develops...the kid just has it in him to change games with his defense, his ability to shoot off the dribble, and his vision; with the intelligence to make clever use of his talents. It would take some patience until he got there, but I'd love to watch Ziaire grow into the H2O to RJ's Spree.

Great analysis. You should do more on individual players.

He's just too scrawny for my liking. It's going to take 5 years to grow into an NBA body. Kid has the narrowest shoulders I've seen in awhile. But the talent is definitely there.

lol thanks for the kind words. Unfortunately for most top prospects I only have watched like 5-7 full games; so don't have as strong of a feel for them. Outside of Ziaire and the tennessee kids, there's only a couple of other prospects that I watched play most of their performances.

RE: Ziaire; I'm not overly worried with how long it'll take for him to fully break out because:
A) I trust him to contribute in other ways until he gets the strength to finish, as I really rate his intelligence/vision -- assuming he realizes that not ever pass needs to be 100 mph -- and stroke highly. Plus on a team whose offense is going to hinge around two playmaking slashers in the near term, having a kid who can break in in a low-usage role, should help him solidify his place on this team even before he's ready to start sharing in the playmaking with RJ & Julius.
B) I don't think he'll need that long to fill out if he doesn't miss as much time, by year 3 I would expect him to be strong enough to start finishing through contact...he'll still need more time to master the nuances of finishing at the rim against NBAers even once he has that requisite strength, but I think two offseasons with an NBA staff will change his body dramatically.
C) just in general, I prefer to err on the side of over-cooking prospects rather than rushing them, and take a long-term perspective to drafting; so I'm probably less concerned with having to wait for a prospect I like than most folks.
And finally, D) drafting Ziaire is a value question for me, i.e. if we're picking him over Bouknight / Keon / etc. at 6 or 7, then those readiness arguments would hold a lot more weight for me than if we were nabbing him at #15 over Kai Jones, Springer & Giddey.

[jvsimonetti0514]

So this year on the "let's compare a prospect to Frank" Game, I'm pitching Barnakina(Scotty Barnes) or Ziariakina(Ziaire Williams). Anyone else have any proposals?

barnakina is a good one but i don't really like the ziare comparison. ziare flashed a pretty good offensive game this season. hit a bunch of shots off the dribble and can throw dimes. just inconsistent cause of injuries, personal issues and super skinny. if we're swinging for the fences and going for a pure upside pick i would take ziare over bj boston hands down.

I just picked him mostly cuz he's a skinny lanky dude and couldn't really think of anyone else that fit the profile better. It's really just mostly for the lolzzz anyways.

[thebuzzardman]

I'm 100% confident the Knicks will f*ck up both picks.

[jvsimonetti0514]

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