2020-2021 College/Draft Thread 2

[NewKnicks]

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This is exactly how I feel about Mitchell. There's always one player who jumps up the board after showing out in the tournament. This year it's Mitchell.

He's going to be drafted much higher than he would have been pre-tournament. I don't want to be that team that believes the hype and takes him early.

Knicks always do a lot of stupid sh*t, and this very well could be the next terrible move we make.

[NewKnicks]

They traded Wendell Carter Jr. and two first round picks for a 30 year old center who doesn't move the needle for them. I think if they were more patient they could have done better with those assets even use Lauri as part of a bigger trade for better value overall.

I'm a big Wendell fan, but he wasn't playing well. I just don't see the 9th/10th pick being used on a player who'd have the same impact as Vuc for the next few years

But what impact does Vuc actually have?

A scoring center who can't really protect the rim or defend in space puts a ceiling on his team. Before you bring up Jokic, he is a complete outlier and in a different stratosphere than Vuc entirely.

I think that trade was a major W for Orlando and a big fat L for Chicago.

They lost one talented young player and TWO shots at adding quality talent on their roster via the draft for what. The 8th seed next year?

Vuc is a fringe All-Star who doesn't really impact games and who's on the wrong side of 30. Plus, as a Euro, I don't think his presence on the team has the same pull for Lavine as a Randle would have for instance. Maybe Lavine helped him settle in Chicago simply because he's a good teammate, and there really isn't more to it. We'll see if that energy's still there when Chicago struggle to make the playoffs next year.

The Bulls are a mess.

Come on, Chanel. You're not being fair here. They got a double-double machine (8 out of his first 10 years he's averaged a double-double).

Are you referring to WCJ as the young talented player they lost? Go to the Bulls board and try to say that. They hate him there and were happy he's gone. He doesn't excel at anything. He's a role player big. That's all.

The wrong side of 30? As in 30? That's the wrong side of 30? What's the right side of 30?

I'm shocked at all the quality posters on here who think they know how that trade is going to work out after 10 games. Seriously.. you really think you know how the future is going to look after 10 games?

By the way.. you know who else is a double-double machine big? Randle. Yes, there's a 4 year age difference, so no need to tell me that. But a player that's skilled like Vuc, and who does not rely on athleticism to score, he's going to be playing well in the league for at least another 5 years.

Plus, the picks are top 4 protected, which is huge.

I'm going to wait more than 10 games to pretend I know exactly how the trade will work out. They both got what they wanted. Bulls added an All Star for #1's (WCJ doesn't count for anything), and Orlando got the picks they need to help rebuild.

If the Bulls keep the picks, what could be the realistic expectations of those number 1's? 9-10 in this draft, and then a mid level pick another draft. If there is any fan base that knows how great picks from 7-10 are, just take a look at our own draft picks in that range.

Obi
Knox
Frank

And a lot more..

[NewKnicks]

Not to mention that Lauri's looking likely to end up as trade bait...and if Bulls fans are lucky, so will Coby before he gets paid. I rate Patrick Williams very highly and Lavine's growth speaks for itself, but the rest of the "young core" that the Bulls entered the season with, left a lot to be desired...Wendell disappointing all around, Coby & Lauri continuing to be sieves defensively as well as super streaky scorers with questionable vision.

Cashing in on those kids to put a competitive team around Lavine & Williams, could put a good team back in the United Center...as the Blackhawks are struggling through a rebuild right now as well...and give Lavine a good reason to stay.

That’s a good point about packaging up Coby and Lauri for something else. I think that’s what they need to do if they’re trying to get Lavine to stay. I’m not really sure who’s available or what those two guys can get but that’s what needs to be done for Bulls to keep him. I hope they can’t do it cuz I want LaVine here.

It might be a homer take but I think our roster has more to offer him than the bulls one does. Our all star is the same age as him and theirs isn’t. RJ is definitely going to be a 20 point scorer next year too. That might be a 2 or 3 years away for Williams. IQ and Mitch are up and coming as well. Even Obi is finally showing some signs of life. That’s all before we using potentially 4 picks in the next draft.

I agree.

We're in a far better position than the Bulls imo.

The Bulls have surrounded Lavine with players that don't mask his weaknesses. In fact, they've traded the only young player outside of Patrick Williams who had some upside as a defensive player. Vucevic, Markkanen, White... None of those guys can cover for Lavine. And in Vuc they have a co-star who doesn't even fit his timeline.

Also the Bulls are a perfect example of a team that let the value of its young players crumble and will now have to overpay its own underachieving players (sunk costs) or let them go for nothing when they could've gotten something in return for them had they done something earlier. The Bulls should have traded Markkanen long ago and kept WCJ.

Now Markkanen doesn't fit with Vuc, is gonna be a RFA, and doesn't have much value around the league now that it's obvious that he's a bench piece and not a future star.

What exactly are all these 'weaknesses' that you're referring to about Lavine? Kid is averaging 27, 5 and 5 on good efficiency. I'm assuming you're referring to his D, which most scouts will agree he's improved. Not that he's a shutdown defender, but what more do you want from him? Plus, he's 25 YEARS OLD. He has a lot of time to still improve.

Just about everyone on here is hoping somehow he lands here, but then people try to tear down his game. I don't know what more you want from him. You'd kill to have him here.

[Chanel Bomber]

That’s a good point about packaging up Coby and Lauri for something else. I think that’s what they need to do if they’re trying to get Lavine to stay. I’m not really sure who’s available or what those two guys can get but that’s what needs to be done for Bulls to keep him. I hope they can’t do it cuz I want LaVine here.

It might be a homer take but I think our roster has more to offer him than the bulls one does. Our all star is the same age as him and theirs isn’t. RJ is definitely going to be a 20 point scorer next year too. That might be a 2 or 3 years away for Williams. IQ and Mitch are up and coming as well. Even Obi is finally showing some signs of life. That’s all before we using potentially 4 picks in the next draft.

I agree.

We're in a far better position than the Bulls imo.

The Bulls have surrounded Lavine with players that don't mask his weaknesses. In fact, they've traded the only young player outside of Patrick Williams who had some upside as a defensive player. Vucevic, Markkanen, White... None of those guys can cover for Lavine. And in Vuc they have a co-star who doesn't even fit his timeline.

Also the Bulls are a perfect example of a team that let the value of its young players crumble and will now have to overpay its own underachieving players (sunk costs) or let them go for nothing when they could've gotten something in return for them had they done something earlier. The Bulls should have traded Markkanen long ago and kept WCJ.

Now Markkanen doesn't fit with Vuc, is gonna be a RFA, and doesn't have much value around the league now that it's obvious that he's a bench piece and not a future star.

What exactly are all these 'weaknesses' that you're referring to about Lavine? Kid is averaging 27, 5 and 5 on good efficiency. I'm assuming you're referring to his D, which most scouts will agree he's improved. Not that he's a shutdown defender, but what more do you want from him? Plus, he's 25 YEARS OLD. He has a lot of time to still improve.

Just about everyone on here is hoping somehow he lands here, but then people try to tear down his game. I don't know what more you want from him. You'd kill to have him here.

Erm I have been driving the Zach Lavine bus since long before you joined the board.

I was hoping and calling for the Knicks to trade for him while Jim Boylen was still the Bulls coach when everybody outside of melo, me and a couple others was calling him a loser, a chucker etc.

He was one of the NBA's hidden gems for years. And I sure hope the Knicks can sign him next summer.

He's an All-Star with more room to grow still but that doesn't mean he doesn't have weaknesses, including on defense. My point was that neither Vuc, nor Coby nor Markkanen cover for these weaknesses which highlight some major issues in terms of roster construction.

Just relax man.

[NewKnicks]

I agree.

We're in a far better position than the Bulls imo.

The Bulls have surrounded Lavine with players that don't mask his weaknesses. In fact, they've traded the only young player outside of Patrick Williams who had some upside as a defensive player. Vucevic, Markkanen, White... None of those guys can cover for Lavine. And in Vuc they have a co-star who doesn't even fit his timeline.

Also the Bulls are a perfect example of a team that let the value of its young players crumble and will now have to overpay its own underachieving players (sunk costs) or let them go for nothing when they could've gotten something in return for them had they done something earlier. The Bulls should have traded Markkanen long ago and kept WCJ.

Now Markkanen doesn't fit with Vuc, is gonna be a RFA, and doesn't have much value around the league now that it's obvious that he's a bench piece and not a future star.

What exactly are all these 'weaknesses' that you're referring to about Lavine? Kid is averaging 27, 5 and 5 on good efficiency. I'm assuming you're referring to his D, which most scouts will agree he's improved. Not that he's a shutdown defender, but what more do you want from him? Plus, he's 25 YEARS OLD. He has a lot of time to still improve.

Just about everyone on here is hoping somehow he lands here, but then people try to tear down his game. I don't know what more you want from him. You'd kill to have him here.

Erm I have been driving the Zach Lavine bus since long before you joined the board.

I was hoping and calling for the Knicks to trade for him while Jim Boylen was still the Bulls coach when everybody outside of melo, me and a couple others was calling him a loser, a chucker etc.

He was one of the NBA's hidden gems for years. And I sure hope the Knicks can sign him next summer.

He's an All-Star with more room to grow still but that doesn't mean he doesn't have weaknesses, including on defense. My point was that neither Vuc, nor Coby nor Markkanen cover for these weaknesses which highlight some major issues in terms of roster construction.

Just relax man.

Obviously I didn't know you were driving that train. That's cool. I guess I see a lot of people on Real GM (on other boards too) who try to pick apart his game, so that gets me a little fired up sometimes. He's one of the biggest rising stars in the league right now in my book.

Anyway, no need to tell me to calm down. This is a message board to where everyone has different opinions.

I've been high on him as well, but I didn't think he would take his game to this level this fast. It's very impressive to watch from the outside. The Bulls better figure out fast how they're going to build the team around him. They have a lot of assets to work with, and this is the first chance they've had since DRose to get that team up towards the top of the East. They better not f*ck it up, but if they do, we better be knocking on his door with the biggest bag allowed by the league.

[Chanel Bomber]

I'm a big Wendell fan, but he wasn't playing well. I just don't see the 9th/10th pick being used on a player who'd have the same impact as Vuc for the next few years

But what impact does Vuc actually have?

A scoring center who can't really protect the rim or defend in space puts a ceiling on his team. Before you bring up Jokic, he is a complete outlier and in a different stratosphere than Vuc entirely.

I think that trade was a major W for Orlando and a big fat L for Chicago.

They lost one talented young player and TWO shots at adding quality talent on their roster via the draft for what. The 8th seed next year?

Vuc is a fringe All-Star who doesn't really impact games and who's on the wrong side of 30. Plus, as a Euro, I don't think his presence on the team has the same pull for Lavine as a Randle would have for instance. Maybe Lavine helped him settle in Chicago simply because he's a good teammate, and there really isn't more to it. We'll see if that energy's still there when Chicago struggle to make the playoffs next year.

The Bulls are a mess.

Come on, Chanel. You're not being fair here. They got a double-double machine (8 out of his first 10 years he's averaged a double-double).

Are you referring to WCJ as the young talented player they lost? Go to the Bulls board and try to say that. They hate him there and were happy he's gone. He doesn't excel at anything. He's a role player big. That's all.

The wrong side of 30? As in 30? That's the wrong side of 30? What's the right side of 30?

I'm shocked at all the quality posters on here who think they know how that trade is going to work out after 10 games. Seriously.. you really think you know how the future is going to look after 10 games?

By the way.. you know who else is a double-double machine big? Randle. Yes, there's a 4 year age difference, so no need to tell me that. But a player that's skilled like Vuc, and who does not really on athleticism to score, he's going to be playing well in the league for at least another 5 years.

Plus, the picks are top 4 protected, which is huge.

I'm going to wait more than 10 games to pretend I know exactly how the trade will work out. They both got what they wanted. Bulls added an All Star for #1's (WCJ doesn't count for anything), and Orlando got the picks they need to help rebuild.

If the Bulls keep the picks, what could be the realistic expectations of those number 1's? 9-10 in this draft, and then a mid level pick another draft. If there is any fan base that knows how great picks from 7-10, just take a look at our own draft picks in that range.

Obi
Knox
Frank

And a lot more..

Are you saying you don't have any opinion on the trade or that we should wait until the outcome is abundantly clear to express an opinion? Or do you just happen to be of the opinion that it was a good trade for the Bulls, and early results are proving you wrong and proving me right, and so you're using the idea that it would be intellectually unfair for me to express my opinion as cover because you don't want to hear it and have to face the fact that you might be wrong?

Time as we experience it in our physical form is (mostly) linear so being on the wrong side of 30 means you're over 30 ie in the final years of your prime and getting seriously close to the point where you begin to continually get worse. I don't think it's a complicated notion to grasp at all. Vuc might not rely on his athleticism to score, but how do you think getting slower will affect him (and his team) on the other side of the ball?

In terms of archetype, I prefer a solid role player big who can hold down the fort defensively than an All-Star offensive big who compromises the defense. Unless that guy is Jokic, whose basketball IQ is so high that he can actually read and anticipate plays defensively despite his limitations.

I don't mind it at all if you think it's a good trade for the Bulls. I just disagree with that conclusion. But the notion that I'm not being fair or that I should refrain from saying that it's a bad trade for the Bulls, I don't see the logic behind that.

[Chanel Bomber]

What exactly are all these 'weaknesses' that you're referring to about Lavine? Kid is averaging 27, 5 and 5 on good efficiency. I'm assuming you're referring to his D, which most scouts will agree he's improved. Not that he's a shutdown defender, but what more do you want from him? Plus, he's 25 YEARS OLD. He has a lot of time to still improve.

Just about everyone on here is hoping somehow he lands here, but then people try to tear down his game. I don't know what more you want from him. You'd kill to have him here.

Erm I have been driving the Zach Lavine bus since long before you joined the board.

I was hoping and calling for the Knicks to trade for him while Jim Boylen was still the Bulls coach when everybody outside of melo, me and a couple others was calling him a loser, a chucker etc.

He was one of the NBA's hidden gems for years. And I sure hope the Knicks can sign him next summer.

He's an All-Star with more room to grow still but that doesn't mean he doesn't have weaknesses, including on defense. My point was that neither Vuc, nor Coby nor Markkanen cover for these weaknesses which highlight some major issues in terms of roster construction.

Just relax man.

Obviously I didn't know you were driving that train. That's cool. I guess I see a lot of people on Real GM (on other boards too) who try to pick apart his game, so that gets me a little fired up sometimes. He's one of the biggest rising stars in the league right now in my book.

Anyway, no need to tell me to calm down. This is a message board to where everyone has different opinions.

I've been high on him as well, but I didn't think he would take his game to this level this fast. It's very impressive to watch from the outside. The Bulls better figure out fast how they're going to build the team around him. They have a lot of assets to work with, and this is the first chance they've had since DRose to get that team up towards the top of the East. They better not f*ck it up, but if they do, we better be knocking on his door with the biggest bag allowed by the league.

It's not about you having a different opinion (when you actually don't since we both like Lavine).

I was commenting on the fact that you went on a passionate rant (you said it, fired up) assuming I was being critical of Lavine when it was actually the opposite. Sure seems like you rushed to the wrong conclusion. Also writing in all caps doesn't exactly suggest that you're perfectly calm, hence the relax comment.

[NewKnicks]

Erm I have been driving the Zach Lavine bus since long before you joined the board.

I was hoping and calling for the Knicks to trade for him while Jim Boylen was still the Bulls coach when everybody outside of melo, me and a couple others was calling him a loser, a chucker etc.

He was one of the NBA's hidden gems for years. And I sure hope the Knicks can sign him next summer.

He's an All-Star with more room to grow still but that doesn't mean he doesn't have weaknesses, including on defense. My point was that neither Vuc, nor Coby nor Markkanen cover for these weaknesses which highlight some major issues in terms of roster construction.

Just relax man.

Obviously I didn't know you were driving that train. That's cool. I guess I see a lot of people on Real GM (on other boards too) who try to pick apart his game, so that gets me a little fired up sometimes. He's one of the biggest rising stars in the league right now in my book.

Anyway, no need to tell me to calm down. This is a message board to where everyone has different opinions.

I've been high on him as well, but I didn't think he would take his game to this level this fast. It's very impressive to watch from the outside. The Bulls better figure out fast how they're going to build the team around him. They have a lot of assets to work with, and this is the first chance they've had since DRose to get that team up towards the top of the East. They better not f*ck it up, but if they do, we better be knocking on his door with the biggest bag allowed by the league.

It's not about you having a different opinion (when you actually don't since we both like Lavine).

I was commenting on the fact that you went on a passionate rant (you said it, fired up) assuming I was being critical of Lavine when it was actually the opposite. Sure seems like you rushed to the wrong conclusion. Also writing in all caps doesn't exactly suggest that you're perfectly calm, hence the relax comment.

Ok dude. You need to relax now. I said I didn't know you were on the Lavine train.

[Chanel Bomber]

Obviously I didn't know you were driving that train. That's cool. I guess I see a lot of people on Real GM (on other boards too) who try to pick apart his game, so that gets me a little fired up sometimes. He's one of the biggest rising stars in the league right now in my book.

Anyway, no need to tell me to calm down. This is a message board to where everyone has different opinions.

I've been high on him as well, but I didn't think he would take his game to this level this fast. It's very impressive to watch from the outside. The Bulls better figure out fast how they're going to build the team around him. They have a lot of assets to work with, and this is the first chance they've had since DRose to get that team up towards the top of the East. They better not f*ck it up, but if they do, we better be knocking on his door with the biggest bag allowed by the league.

It's not about you having a different opinion (when you actually don't since we both like Lavine).

I was commenting on the fact that you went on a passionate rant (you said it, fired up) assuming I was being critical of Lavine when it was actually the opposite. Sure seems like you rushed to the wrong conclusion. Also writing in all caps doesn't exactly suggest that you're perfectly calm, hence the relax comment.

Ok dude. You need to relax now. I said I didn't know you were on the Lavine train.

Watch on YouTube

[NewKnicks]

It's not about you having a different opinion (when you actually don't since we both like Lavine).

I was commenting on the fact that you went on a passionate rant (you said it, fired up) assuming I was being critical of Lavine when it was actually the opposite. Sure seems like you rushed to the wrong conclusion. Also writing in all caps doesn't exactly suggest that you're perfectly calm, hence the relax comment.

Ok dude. You need to relax now. I said I didn't know you were on the Lavine train.

Watch on YouTube

Calmer than you are.

[knickstape4ever]

at this point, I'd just be really happy if we can get Bouknight

he's 6th on my board, but I've seen him fall out of the lotto on other boards (idk why, I think the media/analysts are overthinking it just b/c his assist #'s weren't good)

1(13) James Bouknight
1(22) Jared Butler
2(33) Josh Christopher
2(57) Isaiah Todd

that'd be a successful draft

I still would give anything for a top 4 pick b/c I think we need a franchise-changing talent to pair w/ RJ long-term and the top 4 is where they're at

[cgf]

Bored at work, waiting for some test to run and I can’t help but chuckle at how my dream realistic(-ish) offseason* would set up some parallels with the 99 squad that went on that magical run after Pat went down.

Already there:
- Taj ready to roll down to the garden & fill the role of Pat’s Corpse for Thibs, whenever…whether he’s already under contract or needs to be handed one at the door.
- Mitch there to take the Cambyman’s spot as the mobile & lanky young C who can swat shots & move.
- Kurt Thomas either being played by Nerlens as the more-experienced, but still very mobile, alternative to Mitch…or (if Taj can teach him to defend) by Obi as the better-shooting, smallball-5, who can play next to Mitch as well.
- Julius upgrading on the already-Bane’d version of Larry Johnson that we got; as a powerful & skilled 4, ready to hit clutch 3s…though he’s a little bit older than our star(s) on the wing(s).
- Rowan looking more & more like he might just grow into a (less crazy) update on the intensely-competitive slasher that we had in Spree. Helping establish our mindset & identity with his drive & defense, as well as his threat with the ball in his hands.

Addressed by my ideal pseudo-realistic offseason*:
- Quickley & Butler as a modern re-telling of Ward & Childs, after some polish.
- With the part of H2O getting filled by Ziaire / Bouknight / Moody in the long run, if we can’t swing a more immediate solution; like trading for a Lavine / Booker / Mitchell, or snagging a sharpshooting RFA with our capspace.



*aka not getting two top 5 picks after we & Dallas are bounced in the play-in, only for Brandon Ingram to demand a trade to join Randle, Barrett, Mobley & Suggs; strong-arming NOLA into selling him for pennies on the dollar.

[NewKnicks]

at this point, I'd just be really happy if we can get Bouknight

he's 6th on my board, but I've seen him fall out of the lotto on other boards (idk why, I think the media/analysts are overthinking it just b/c his assist #'s weren't good)

1(13) James Bouknight
1(22) Jared Butler
2(33) Josh Christopher
2(57) Isaiah Todd

that'd be a successful draft

I still would give anything for a top 4 pick b/c I think we need a franchise-changing talent to pair w/ RJ long-term and the top 4 is where they're at

I'm with you on that top 4 pick, but I just don't see any team (even the Warriors) giving up that pick. Those players ceilings are just too high to consider moving. We'd have to include RJ, which kind of defeats the purpose. Couldn't we have sucked for just one more damn year??

[knickstape4ever]

at this point, I'd just be really happy if we can get Bouknight

he's 6th on my board, but I've seen him fall out of the lotto on other boards (idk why, I think the media/analysts are overthinking it just b/c his assist #'s weren't good)

1(13) James Bouknight
1(22) Jared Butler
2(33) Josh Christopher
2(57) Isaiah Todd

that'd be a successful draft

I still would give anything for a top 4 pick b/c I think we need a franchise-changing talent to pair w/ RJ long-term and the top 4 is where they're at

I'm with you on that top 4 pick, but I just don't see any team (even the Warriors) giving up that pick. Those players ceilings are just too high to consider moving. We'd have to include RJ, which kind of defeats the purpose. Couldn't we have sucked for just one more damn year??

yep, no team is trading out of the top 5. only way we get top 4 is by extreme luck. right now, according to 538, we're projected to be tied for the 12th worst record w/ GS and NO which means that 14th pick is quite possible

[HEZI]

the pick is top 4 protected

I don't think it's an awful trade at all considering that if the Bulls end up in the lottery, they still have a shot at a top 4 pick. and if they don't land a top 4 pick, chances are that whoever the Magic take at 9/10 is not gonna have the same type of impact that Vuc will have

What impact did Vuc provide though? Orlando looks about the same as they did before trading him and Chicago looks the same, maybe even worse now especially defensively, as they did before getting him. Orlando should have started their rebuild sooner, I thought they waited too long but they finally came to their senses and made the obvious move. Chicago, terrible move. If they were a piece away I'd get it but they weren't and should have just waited for a better player to put their chips in for. They need to hope that the pick somehow jumps into the top 4 and there's a very slim chance that happens.

It's been what, 10 games? 9 games? You claim to know how the next 5 years will be for the Bulls? You don't know, I don't know. But they didn't give up too much to get an All-Star. WCJ is a role player. So basically it's the two numbers 1's for Vuc.

Plus, do you honestly think the Bulls are done? They won't look to add another star? They actually have some good assets for the next move, if they decide to make it. If they re-sign Lauri, you have Lauri, Coby White, Patrick Williams (although I'm not giving him up just yet if I'm the Bulls), plus another 1st or two. That's a damn good haul for another potential star, especially if you're including Williams.

They traded Jimmy Butler so they can start over and rebuild and this is the end result of their rebuild? They could have easily been right where they are now without even moving Jimmy and probably been better off trying to put pieces around him instead of wasting their time to get where they are now which is nowhere. It just feels like they are running in circles.

[NewKnicks]

What impact did Vuc provide though? Orlando looks about the same as they did before trading him and Chicago looks the same, maybe even worse now especially defensively, as they did before getting him. Orlando should have started their rebuild sooner, I thought they waited too long but they finally came to their senses and made the obvious move. Chicago, terrible move. If they were a piece away I'd get it but they weren't and should have just waited for a better player to put their chips in for. They need to hope that the pick somehow jumps into the top 4 and there's a very slim chance that happens.

It's been what, 10 games? 9 games? You claim to know how the next 5 years will be for the Bulls? You don't know, I don't know. But they didn't give up too much to get an All-Star. WCJ is a role player. So basically it's the two numbers 1's for Vuc.

Plus, do you honestly think the Bulls are done? They won't look to add another star? They actually have some good assets for the next move, if they decide to make it. If they re-sign Lauri, you have Lauri, Coby White, Patrick Williams (although I'm not giving him up just yet if I'm the Bulls), plus another 1st or two. That's a damn good haul for another potential star, especially if you're including Williams.

They traded Jimmy Butler so they can start over and rebuild and this is the end result of their rebuild? They could have easily been right where they are now without even moving Jimmy and probably been better off trying to put pieces around him instead of wasting their time to get where they are now which is nowhere. It just feels like they are running in circles.

Except they got Lavine for Jimmy. I love Jimmy, but I'm making that trade 10/10 times. They needed to get younger at that time, and were not winning any championships with Jimmy. They also added Markennen with the #1 they got.

[3toheadmelo]

Mike Schmitz on Davion Mitchell. He said he's one of the best defenders he's ever evaluated, and even compared him to Donovan Mitchell offensively, like I have before

No player improved his stock over the past month or so more than Mitchell, and this is far from a March mirage.

The high-motor guard has been a favorite in scouting circles for the majority of the season, but midway through conference play, most teams viewed him as a high-level backup guard who could hang his hat on his elite defense and quickness. After watching him help carry Baylor to a national title, it's clear Mitchell not only projects as an NBA starter and one of the best defenders in the league, he also holds considerable star potential.

What impressed me most was just how many different ways Mitchell can beat you. Against teams such as Wisconsin and Villanova, he torched perimeter defenders and bigs alike with his elite burst and sudden changes of pace. His acceleration, balance and ability to get his chest parallel to the floor on downhill attacks is as impressive as I've seen from a guard. He'll be one of the fastest guards in the NBA from Day 1. With the Houston Cougars playing him as a driver in the Final Four, he knocked down hang-dribble pull-ups and a step-back 3 to his left, and he showed the sharp footwork and off-the-dribble game that so closely resembles Donovan Mitchell.

Maybe most impressively, Mitchell has turned himself into a real lead guard who knows when to go get his own or when to facilitate. Houston threw two bodies at him on most every screen, and he almost always made the right play, whether it was a pocket pass to the roller or a skip to the corner. He also showed he can pass off the dribble, which is a deadly weapon when paired with his pull-up shooting and elite quickness. With NBA spacing and shooters around him, Mitchell figures to be a near impossible cover so long as his jumper is falling.

Then you add in the fact that he knows how to coexist alongside other guards, plays with a nonstop motor and is one of the best defenders I've ever evaluated and you have a pretty special prospect who I think deserves consideration as high as No. 6. Not overly long or tall despite his strong, 205-pound frame, there's still room to fine-tune his finishing in traffic while becoming more consistent from 3. Analytics models will likely flag his career 66% free throw shooting. It's worth noting that if Mitchell, 22, were to go in the top 10, only six top-10 picks since 2000 will have been older than him on draft night: Randy Foye, Shane Battier, Wesley Johnson, Buddy Hield, Ekpe Udoh and Rafael Araujo.

But the former Auburn transfer has proved his ability to improve each and every season up until this point. Mitchell consistently rose to the occasion as the heart and soul of a special Baylor team, and he is the exact type of fearless player coaches and teammates will want to compete with every night.

[HEZI]

It's been what, 10 games? 9 games? You claim to know how the next 5 years will be for the Bulls? You don't know, I don't know. But they didn't give up too much to get an All-Star. WCJ is a role player. So basically it's the two numbers 1's for Vuc.

Plus, do you honestly think the Bulls are done? They won't look to add another star? They actually have some good assets for the next move, if they decide to make it. If they re-sign Lauri, you have Lauri, Coby White, Patrick Williams (although I'm not giving him up just yet if I'm the Bulls), plus another 1st or two. That's a damn good haul for another potential star, especially if you're including Williams.

They traded Jimmy Butler so they can start over and rebuild and this is the end result of their rebuild? They could have easily been right where they are now without even moving Jimmy and probably been better off trying to put pieces around him instead of wasting their time to get where they are now which is nowhere. It just feels like they are running in circles.

Except they got Lavine for Jimmy. I love Jimmy, but I'm making that trade 10/10 times. They needed to get younger at that time, and were not winning any championships with Jimmy. They also added Markennen with the #1 they got.

Are they closer to a championship now than they were then? They were still a playoff team with Jimmy. I like Lavine but Jimmy is better. Jimmy took that Miami Heat with a bunch of youngsters and role players to a Finals. I like Lavine but he's no Jimmy Butler. I think Butler is very capable of elevating a guy like Lauri to a higher level because Jimmy plays a very unselfish game and just knows how to lead. So Chicago could have very much so been where they are now at the very least, even with Jimmy. I don't think they are reaching contender status anytime soon and they still have ways to go before reaching a 41-41 record which they had with Jimmy. So again, it just feels like they are running in a circle.

I get it, their rebuild didn't go as planned, some of their pieces struggled to fit, I get all that. But I don't think Vucevic was the way to go for them at this time.

Even their recent draft, they took a long term project in Williams. They could have had Haliburton, it made a lot of sense, could have even traded down for him. At this deadline they could have had Lonzo. I mean they had ways to improve their weaknesses, I don't see how they did that with Vucevic. You said they can still keep looking to improve the roster with Vuc over the years, well yeah sure but what was stopping them from doing that before Vucevic? I'm asking what has it done for them now, I don't see how they improved but they supposedly felt the need to add a win now piece who happens to be 30 and sacrificed a good portion of assets to do so only to still be losing and in need of other major changes. I get they are desperate to retain Lavine but I don't get why the Vuc trade keeps him around? A roster still under construction and a losing season, what does he have in Chicago that he wouldn't have almost anywhere else? Meh

[NewKnicks]

Mike Schmitz on Davion Mitchell. He said he's one of the best defenders he's ever evaluated, and even compared him to Donovan Mitchell offensively, like I have before

No player improved his stock over the past month or so more than Mitchell, and this is far from a March mirage.

The high-motor guard has been a favorite in scouting circles for the majority of the season, but midway through conference play, most teams viewed him as a high-level backup guard who could hang his hat on his elite defense and quickness. After watching him help carry Baylor to a national title, it's clear Mitchell not only projects as an NBA starter and one of the best defenders in the league, he also holds considerable star potential.

What impressed me most was just how many different ways Mitchell can beat you. Against teams such as Wisconsin and Villanova, he torched perimeter defenders and bigs alike with his elite burst and sudden changes of pace. His acceleration, balance and ability to get his chest parallel to the floor on downhill attacks is as impressive as I've seen from a guard. He'll be one of the fastest guards in the NBA from Day 1. With the Houston Cougars playing him as a driver in the Final Four, he knocked down hang-dribble pull-ups and a step-back 3 to his left, and he showed the sharp footwork and off-the-dribble game that so closely resembles Donovan Mitchell.

Maybe most impressively, Mitchell has turned himself into a real lead guard who knows when to go get his own or when to facilitate. Houston threw two bodies at him on most every screen, and he almost always made the right play, whether it was a pocket pass to the roller or a skip to the corner. He also showed he can pass off the dribble, which is a deadly weapon when paired with his pull-up shooting and elite quickness. With NBA spacing and shooters around him, Mitchell figures to be a near impossible cover so long as his jumper is falling.

Then you add in the fact that he knows how to coexist alongside other guards, plays with a nonstop motor and is one of the best defenders I've ever evaluated and you have a pretty special prospect who I think deserves consideration as high as No. 6. Not overly long or tall despite his strong, 205-pound frame, there's still room to fine-tune his finishing in traffic while becoming more consistent from 3. Analytics models will likely flag his career 66% free throw shooting. It's worth noting that if Mitchell, 22, were to go in the top 10, only six top-10 picks since 2000 will have been older than him on draft night: Randy Foye, Shane Battier, Wesley Johnson, Buddy Hield, Ekpe Udoh and Rafael Araujo.

But the former Auburn transfer has proved his ability to improve each and every season up until this point. Mitchell consistently rose to the occasion as the heart and soul of a special Baylor team, and he is the exact type of fearless player coaches and teammates will want to compete with every night.

That's exactly the type of player I see him being in the NBA.

[knickstape4ever]

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I feel like Bouknight is still within range. get it done Leon