GO CRAZY PAT! - Patrick Williams thread p2

[Neonblazer]

The problem this seaosn is he like a robot where he is told to run to the corner in a play, and he ALWAYS does it. There is no deviation from it. Even on fast breaks, he just jogs to the corner. He effectively takes himself out of the offense.

It kinda sounds like he is playing the same role that Lauri is playing.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

His engine just runs too low right now.

You can’t have a guy floating from end to end and merely looking the part for 30 mpg.

Not when you invested two future 1sts into the current roster construction.

[fleet]

Getting Tony Snell vibes from him. Snell could play 30 minutes some nights and you’d guess he got a DNP-CD.

I never had any hope for Tony Snell like I did and do for Pat. Sadly for me its more like Bulls E-Rob, Pat has not been Charlotte E-Rob. But seriously, his age still gives me hope he can grow into more than he has shown as an attitude on the court. I think he waits for the game to come to him, but he hasn’t yet realized that only aggressive players can balance that. And in the NBA, they feed themselves.

[PaKii94]

The problem this seaosn is he like a robot where he is told to run to the corner in a play, and he ALWAYS does it. There is no deviation from it. Even on fast breaks, he just jogs to the corner. He effectively takes himself out of the offense.

It kinda sounds like he is playing the same role that Lauri is playing.

I get lauri vibes from him too. They'll play the good teammate role to a fault.

[RedBulls23]

Pat's a 4. I think playing him out of position is one of the problems.

He's just not quick enough laterally to be defending wings and guards all game. AK needs to find a wing this off-season as much as he needs to find a PG

Maybe Troy Brown Jr is the wing, who knows, but Pat needs to be moved to the 4.

[GoBlue72391]

I hated the PWill pick at the time of the draft but I drank the kool-aid after those videos of him hooping with NBA players over the summer, the solid start he began the season with, and pretty much went with the general consensus that we have a future stud on our hands, but I'm leaning back towards hating the pick. I see the reason for the optimism, and if everything goes perfectly we'll have a hell of a player on our hands, but how often do things go perfectly? We as fans ALWAYS overrate our rookies. Always. We take their absolute best case scenario and convince ourselves it's also the most likely outcome, when in reality the player ends up somewhere in the middle of the best case scenario and worst case scenario. People were really thinking Coby was on an all star/Gilbert Arenas path last season. They thought WCJ had a high floor and would turn out like Al Horford. They thought Lauri was the next Dirk.

Management obviously saw something in him and it's easy to see why, but I also think they and us as fans tried too hard to see things in him that aren't really there. We tried to hope him into the player we want him to be. Like his defense for example. He came in with a reputation of an NBA ready defender who has the tools and athleticism to eventually become this modern lockdown, versatile, switchable, mult-positional defender, but what has he done to warrant such a ceiling? Yes he's lengthy and has prototypical size for the modern SF/PF, but his foot speed/lateral quickness is absurdly slow for his position/size/archetype and he struggles staying in front of just decent wings, let alone stars. Foot speed/lateral quickness is typically not something you can improve upon a whole lot. Even if he does reach his potential, I think it will mostly be because of his offense, and I don't think he'll ever become the kind of defender we hoped/wished he would.

And his passiveness and mentality...yeesh. That is often the difference between a role player and a star, and it's a very bad habit to break because you're essentially asking someone to change their personality. People think it's cute how he responds to media questions like "I don't care, I'm just trying to play basketball", but it's a red flag to me and it'll be a lot less cute if he maintains this mindset going forward. I haven't seen an ounce of passion or fire in the guy. Hell, even Lauri flashes some fire and aggression from time to time. PWill makes Lauri look hyper aggressive in comparison.

I always felt PWill was a boom or bust pick and nothing has made me feel different. He's either going to be a stud or a very pedestrian bench player. Regardless, it's probably time to re-adjust our expectations and it's definitely time to move him to the bench.

[GoBlue72391]

The problem this seaosn is he like a robot where he is told to run to the corner in a play, and he ALWAYS does it. There is no deviation from it. Even on fast breaks, he just jogs to the corner. He effectively takes himself out of the offense.

It kinda sounds like he is playing the same role that Lauri is playing.

Their mentalities are strikingly similar and if either player fails to live up to their potential it will be largely due to their passive mindset and lack of aggression. We need to get some Joakims and Tajs on this team. We have all these guys who are Joe Cool even keeled, but we don't have anyone who plays with fire, passion, and when needed, anger.

[GoBlue72391]

Pat's a 4. I think playing him out of position is one of the problems.

He's just not quick enough laterally to be defending wings and guards all game. AK needs to find a wing this off-season as much as he needs to find a PG

Maybe Troy Brown Jr is the wing, who knows, but Pat needs to be moved to the 4.

Playing him at 4 might marginally make his defense less of an issue, but it does nothing to solve his lack of aggression/mentality/mindset/etc.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Im all for pulling the string on Pat's minutes. We just arent in position for Pat to just chill through the game. The last 2 games were terrible.

The problem this seaosn is he like a robot where he is told to run to the corner in a play, and he ALWAYS does it. There is no deviation from it. Even on fast breaks, he just jogs to the corner. He effectively takes himself out of the offense.

I absolutely love his upside and I think he will be amazing years from now, but right now we have to hold him to a higher standard or limit his minutes.

Coaches aren’t used to players doing what they are told to do 100%. Now Billy has to tell Pat to not do what he was told, and then Pat has to calculate what amount of obedience he has to honor when being told not to do what he was told to do.

I really do think Billy is telling him to do just that.

He was even baited post game when Cowley asked if he thought Pat was passive offensively. He said he didnt he was and Pat just plays the game and plays within himself.

He did say he didnt want people to be aggressive when its not there. I agree with that to a point. But at some point, he needs to break rank. He is sticking by the books a little too much on both ends.

Im sorry to say, but he needs to be a little more nasty. An ahole even to get to the next level. That essentially what happened to Jimmy. Jimmy turned his inner rage into being an ahole. Alot of people didnt like it but it fueled him to be a top 20 player.

I just fear people will start to sour on him fast if he is still on a low volume 10 and 5 next year.

As we have seen on the boards, you can go from a darling to the most hated in a season. Just ask Lauri, Wendell and Coby.

[PrimzyBulls81]

What is PWill showing lately is just nothing... He looks scared, lost, passive as f....! You are 19yrs old god damn it! Show some energy, attitude, dog in you, be aggressive.. I hate the rookie excuses for attitude.. For energy... Sure you will make rookie mistakes, but show some life on court. Show you wanna be there.. Show why you were picked 4th! Or go home and call it a season.

[DuckIII]

Same problem new game. But worse. I don’t get it. Fool toolbox. Empty head? Empty heart? Blech.

[Leslie Forman]

Part of the reason I hate the new direction is because it's basically forcing Pat to be developed as a minor role player than the supposed high potential future franchise wing he should be developed as.

I'd have much preferred just sucking ass the rest of the season and making Pat change his mindset into being relied on as a scorer/creator more quickly. I don't understand why they have no problem forcing Coby White, the least point guard-ish of point guards in the whole damn league, play the point but seem to be cool with Pat being just another random 3+D guy.

[JohnnyTapwater]

perhaps he should care about making the all rookie team - if he plays to THAT level, that would help translate to wins.

Someone talk to him.

[CaPiTanAK]

He plays like a wuss. Time to hit the bench if you are satisfied being a nobody.

[TheFinishSniper]

As we have seen on the boards, you can go from a darling to the most hated in a season. Just ask Lauri, Wendell and Coby.

Is there one thing Bulls fans dislike is being passive on the floor. There is reason why people dislike Sato too. It's not just rookies. You dont hear complaints now about Sato because he is more agressive and taking more shots.

This fanbase grow up on f MJ, Pip, Rodman. And newer on Rose, Jo and Jimmy. You wanna be darling of fanbase, go all f nuts. Even Bobby had support till he didnt took that aggresivnes on his mate, despite his flaws.

[DuckIII]

Part of the reason I hate the new direction is because it's basically forcing Pat to be developed as a minor role player than the supposed high potential future franchise wing he should be developed as.

I'd have much preferred just sucking ass the rest of the season and making Pat change his mindset into being relied on as a scorer/creator more quickly. I don't understand why they have no problem forcing Coby White, the least point guard-ish of point guards in the whole damn league, play the point but seem to be cool with Pat being just another random 3+D guy.

Obviously there is no way for me to know if it was one of the alternate plans, but you can find posts I wrote prior to the deadline expecting the Bulls to soft tank and that as part of that Patrick Lee Williams would get a larger offensive role post deadline.

Then when Vuc was available they did the opposite.

But does it matter? With one roster and then the next, sometimes he asserts himself and other times he ghosts. I realize the method is that they are breaking him into the NBA with a smaller role starting with vets rather than a larger, shorter role off the bench. And that might be partly responsible for the passivity. But we’ve seen him be aggressive in the role and regardless there is no excuse for the way he played the last 2 games. He might as well have not even been on the floor. It’s just not good enough and it continues to be a troubling sign.

It’s not always on “the organization.” In fact, I’d say it rarely is.

[Leslie Forman]

Obviously there is no way for me to know if it was one of the alternate plans, but you can find posts I wrote prior to the deadline expecting the Bulls to soft tank and that as part of that Patrick Lee Williams would get a larger offensive role post deadline.

Then when Vuc was available they did the opposite.

But does it matter?

Of course it does. If Pat was encouraged to just jack up tons of shots and not worry at all about things like efficiency or defense, his counting stats would be way higher and the narrative around him would be extremely different.

Just look at some of the comparably invisible box scores Paul George, Gordon Hayward, and Jaylen Brown put up as rookies even though they were all a year older. They were also stuck in minor roles, joining teams trying to make the playoffs. Brown and Hayward in particular sure put up a whole lot of negative game scores. They all had some downright Snell-ian games as rookies.

But we’ve seen him be aggressive in the role and regardless there is no excuse for the way he played the last 2 games.

Really? Come on.

If he's still like this two years from now, then yeah, it's probably not happening. This? This is nothing.

[DuckIII]

Obviously there is no way for me to know if it was one of the alternate plans, but you can find posts I wrote prior to the deadline expecting the Bulls to soft tank and that as part of that Patrick Lee Williams would get a larger offensive role post deadline.

Then when Vuc was available they did the opposite.

But does it matter?

Of course it does. If Pat was encouraged to just jack up tons of shots and not worry at all about things like efficiency or defense, his counting stats would be way higher and the narrative around him would be extremely different.

Just look at some of the comparably invisible box scores Paul George, Gordon Hayward, and Jaylen Brown put up as rookies even though they were all a year older. They were also stuck in minor roles, joining teams trying to make the playoffs. Brown and Hayward in particular sure put up a whole lot of negative game scores. They all had some downright Snell-ian games as rookies.

But we’ve seen him be aggressive in the role and regardless there is no excuse for the way he played the last 2 games.

Really? Come on.

If he's still like this two years from now, then yeah, it's probably not happening. This? This is nothing.

Of course those two games are nothing, but they don’t exist in a vacuum. They are just the two most recent, and two worst, examples of a repeating issue.

I’ve said before it will take years with Patrick Lee Williams. I get that. But red flags are red flags.

[CaPiTanAK]

I don't expect PWill to go out and jack up 15-20 shots like that rookie in Minnesota. But you need to hit the defensive side hard with rebounds, steals, and blocks if you don't do crap on offense besides parking outside the three point line Bogan style. I also would appreciate a few aggressive drives here and there to draw free throws. Do something besides being a nobody. If you want to be a nobody, you don't deserve to be a starter nor don a Bulls jersey.

[Leslie Forman]

Of course those two games are nothing, but they don’t exist in a vacuum. They are just the two most recent, and two worst, examples of a repeating issue.

I’ve said before it will take years with Patrick Lee Williams. I get that. But red flags are red flags.

These aren't red flags. These are like 10% yellow flags.

This kid is the same age as Pokusevski.