Wanted to respond to some of HBK's post from last time:
HeartBreakKid wrote:Some random thoughts
- I really like Bernard King, and he might make my top 100 but over the years I've grown lower on him. He was a really really one dimensional player, if basketball was all about scoring then he'd be pretty high up there but the guy didn't really do much else, and he had a very iso heavy style on top of that.
- In regards to Clyde's list in particular - Carmelo Anthony is someone I'm not big on, but what about Paul George? Their careers overlapped and it seems like to me George was a better player, and George also has a full career already by this point. He peaked higher most would agree (2019), and he had more playoff success and generally was a better playoff player.
- I gave Grant Hill a pretty good ranking but I feel like it's based off of name value and perhaps overrating regular season dominance. It seems like his post season scoring was a real problem, and I certainly remember watching him in the playoffs and thinking he was too soft to be a consistent scorer (not soft mentally, but his play style). He was a legit point forward which is nice but someone like Gus Williams can essentially do the same thing that Hill does despite not having the reputation as a scorer.
- I think King deserves a ton of respect for his peak, but we've got guys on the board like Hawkins and Walton who I think were better and accomplished more significant stuff. I also find myself thinking of Jokic, though again, I know I'm being biased by how incredible Jokic is this season.
- Re: Paul George. For me the way George has treated his franchises really holds him back at the moment, but in terms of how good he is at his best, it's not insane at all to be thinking of George as a serious candidate. And yes, I would seriously consider him over Melo.
I've listed players out by draft class before so I'll refrain from doing that again now, but I'll say this:
From 2013 & later, the next guy on my list is Jokic.
In 2012, next it's Lillard (then Draymond who I also hope really gets serious conversation at some point)
2011, next it's Klay (then Jimmy)
In 2010, PG is tops.
In 2009, next it's Blake.
In 2008, next it's Love.
In 2007, next it's Marc Gasol.
In 2006, Lowry is tops.
In 2005, next it's Deron.
In 2004, next it's Iggy.
In 2003, next it's Bosh - and full disclosure, I'd have to have a real debate between Melo & Kyle Korver.
So coming at this from a PG-focused perspective, I'd say in most of those years, there's someone who I think achieved more net positive in their career than George.
Bosh, absolutely. George is now basically where Miami was after their first Heatle season, except the Clips lost in the 2nd round instead of the finals and George was the butt of that particular joke.
Iggy, I'll put it this way: I think he's got a strong HOF case, and I don't think PG does yet.
Lowry? Similar to Iggy.
Gasol? Similar to Lowry.
I'd take Blake's career to this point over George.
Klay? Dude he's a Splash Brother. Wake me up when PG is anyone's brother.
And then there's Dame. I think anyone who has forgotten should remember the s**ttalking George directed at Lillard and what happened next. While I don't want to act like a debate between basketball players should come down to who won the beef, I think we saw very clearly how these guys differed. When the going gets tough, Lillard gets in the zone, and George either leaves or crumbles. Now that's a bit unfair to PG given that sometimes he's great against tough competition, you just can't rely on him, and if things go badly, expect that he might decide that moving to another team is the answer.
I mentioned Jimmy Butler because I think he's had the greater career too. Butler has similar issues to George in this sense to switch teams and I do hold that against Butler some too, but Butler's issues are not George's. In retrospect I think we can clearly see that basically every time Butler has called BS on a situation, he's been proven right after the fact, and the fact that he's been able to take the mantle as the driving leader of Heat culture says very strong things about him.
And I mention Draymond Green because he was a driving force on the most dominant core since the Jordan Bulls.
-Re: Hill. I've had similar mental oscillations to you on him. He does seem like a guy whose approach looked a bit suspect in the playoffs. But on the other hand, it was proto-heliocentrism, and when I look at what Hill could do as a playmaker, I think you could build an elite offense around him today with proper spacing, so I don't think there's any reason to look at what Hill did as a gimmick. I think Hill definitely does deserve Top 100 consideration.
