ImageImageImage

It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread

Moderators: bisme37, Parliament10, canman1971, shackles10, snowman, Froob, Darthlukey, Shak_Celts

User avatar
Celts17Pride
RealGM
Posts: 68,434
And1: 70,191
Joined: Nov 27, 2005

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1681 » by Celts17Pride » Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:21 pm

Fierce1 wrote:
djFan71 wrote:
Fierce1 wrote:
I think Harrison Barnes will be a better fit with Boston than Siakam.

There's still a chance Ainge will pursue Barnes in the off-season.

Due to price? Isn't Siakam like everything you want Barnes to be and more so (if he regains his 3pt touch)?


Yeah, due to price.

The Harrison Barnes ship has sailed. Ainge went in another direction and added Fournier. Barnes costs assets to get. Celtics just have to pony up money for Fournier.

Harrison Barnes is a distant memory getting farther and farther away. Ship has sailed
Curmudgeon
RealGM
Posts: 41,985
And1: 25,754
Joined: Jan 20, 2004
Location: Boston, MA

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1682 » by Curmudgeon » Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:21 pm

So where is the mythical buyout candidate who will lead us to the 4th seed?
"Numbers lie alot. Wins and losses don't lie." - Jerry West
"You are what your record says you are."- Bill Parcells
"Offense sells tickets. Defense wins games. Rebounding wins championships." Pat Summit
JediMasterRevan
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,856
And1: 1,047
Joined: Nov 06, 2020

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1683 » by JediMasterRevan » Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:37 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
JediMasterRevan wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
Worth keeping but "at what cost?" is what I keep coming back to? What do you have his value at on a re-sign right now? I think he's priced himself out of our financial maneuverability and beyond his current value.



I think he gets 18-21 million per season.

He is still going to miss games
he is still going to miss shots
but he is an excellent glue guy do whatever is needed type.

I think that is high pay for that type of guy.

And when we finally get off of Kemba it will be fine.


So on a team that is not yet a title contender, you're comfortable paying a 6th man and spot starter 20M per?



Yes. There is more than enough room under the cap for that.

Especially if it jump based on upcoming tv deal.

If nothing else he would be a moveable asset in a deal.
User avatar
Celts17Pride
RealGM
Posts: 68,434
And1: 70,191
Joined: Nov 27, 2005

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1684 » by Celts17Pride » Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:33 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:So where is the mythical buyout candidate who will lead us to the 4th seed?

IT has already been signed :wink:
User avatar
Bleeding Green
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 24,178
And1: 13,875
Joined: Feb 28, 2005
Location: Atlantic Champs OMG OMG OMG!

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1685 » by Bleeding Green » Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:19 pm

Damn IT is really killing it, too. He'll accrue a full negative winshare by the end of his 10 day contract.
Manocad wrote:I have an engineering degree, an exceptionally high IQ, and can point to the exact location/area of any country on an unlabeled globe.
JediMasterRevan
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,856
And1: 1,047
Joined: Nov 06, 2020

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1686 » by JediMasterRevan » Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:11 pm

Who is Danny going to be able to pawn Kemba off on at end of season?

I mean there has to be someone right?

If not what are the odds that Kemba comes off bench next season? As someone else pointed out in another thread, taking all his defensive woes out of the equation, kemba is the lead guard playing with a couple of young studs like Tatum and Brown and has not once had a game with at least 10 assists.
bucknersrevenge
RealGM
Posts: 11,359
And1: 15,385
Joined: Jul 05, 2012
Location: Southern Maryland
Contact:
         

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1687 » by bucknersrevenge » Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:56 pm

JediMasterRevan wrote:Who is Danny going to be able to pawn Kemba off on at end of season?

I mean there has to be someone right?

If not what are the odds that Kemba comes off bench next season? As someone else pointed out in another thread, taking all his defensive woes out of the equation, kemba is the lead guard playing with a couple of young studs like Tatum and Brown and has not once had a game with at least 10 assists.


They didn't sign him to be THAT kind of playmaker and as someone else noted, considering how much Usage goes to the Jay's, it's really not surprising that he hasn't hit 10 assists. That's not the part to be concerned with. The issue is that he's an inefficient shooter (Though he is now converting at the rim which is a pleasant sign). Sending him to the bench kills what little trade value he even has.

You're gonna have to try a team like NYK, who might value bringing a native son home. They have the cap space for days and they are dying for more offense from the backcourt.Might have to take back players like Knox or Frankie Smokes who just haven't cut it on Broadway and they want to get out from under those deals. OKC might be willing to take him on for Horford. In either case we would need to provide some kind of sweetener in the form of someone like maybe Nesmith or a future pick or something, maybe both. In either case you do it, no questions asked. After that, the options start to dry up quickly.

IMHO, Kemba's minutes need to drop to about 25-ish a game now with Romeo back. Even moreso as FournHub eventually returns. The more you play Kemba, the more our defense is compromised. And if he's not hitting his jumpshot, his offensive value plummets. When Brad has options like Fournier, Smart,Romeo, and Pritchard to go, there's no reason not to use them. Doesn't mean Kemba doesn't play. He just plays less. Only 4 players I think should get at least 30mpg when healthy on this team: The Jay's, Fournier, and Rob.
and that's "MR. Irrelevant" to you!!

Founder of The Red's Disciples Podcast
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKArn8FGRYRxGqNDg8J4IAQ/featured
JediMasterRevan
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,856
And1: 1,047
Joined: Nov 06, 2020

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1688 » by JediMasterRevan » Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:09 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
JediMasterRevan wrote:Who is Danny going to be able to pawn Kemba off on at end of season?

I mean there has to be someone right?

If not what are the odds that Kemba comes off bench next season? As someone else pointed out in another thread, taking all his defensive woes out of the equation, kemba is the lead guard playing with a couple of young studs like Tatum and Brown and has not once had a game with at least 10 assists.


They didn't sign him to be THAT kind of playmaker and as someone else noted, considering how much Usage goes to the Jay's, it's really not surprising that he hasn't hit 10 assists. That's not the part to be concerned with. The issue is that he's an inefficient shooter (Though he is now converting at the rim which is a pleasant sign). Sending him to the bench kills what little trade value he even has.

You're gonna have to try a team like NYK, who might value bringing a native son home. They have the cap space for days and they are dying for more offense from the backcourt.Might have to take back players like Knox or Frankie Smokes who just haven't cut it on Broadway and they want to get out from under those deals. OKC might be willing to take him on for Horford. In either case we would need to provide some kind of sweetener in the form of someone like maybe Nesmith or a future pick or something, maybe both. In either case you do it, no questions asked. After that, the options start to dry up quickly.

IMHO, Kemba's minutes need to drop to about 25-ish a game now with Romeo back. Even moreso as FournHub eventually returns. The more you play Kemba, the more our defense is compromised. And if he's not hitting his jumpshot, his offensive value plummets. When Brad has options like Fournier, Smart,Romeo, and Pritchard to go, there's no reason not to use them. Doesn't mean Kemba doesn't play. He just plays less. Only 4 players I think should get at least 30mpg when healthy on this team: The Jay's, Fournier, and Rob.



Kemba is the the 31st highest usage guard in the league.

And that is including guys like
Beal
Booker
McCollum
Lou Williams
Lavine
Tautm
Brown
ahead of him. Guys that not points.


I have 11 point guards ahead of him in usage.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced/?sort=USG_PCT&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=G&StarterBench=Starters

Also, when joining the celtics (a far superior team than what he was leaving) his usage dropped from 31.5 to 27.2 (4.3 points) and his assists rate DROPPED from 29.4 to 24.2 (5.1 points)

So DESPITe playing for a superior team, with superior talent, Kembas assist rate went DOWN in boston.


Kemba off the bench might ressurect him too though. Coming in, not being counted on to be a defender, or to be a 3rd or 4th option on the court he can just go back to Uconn/Charlotte Kemba. Score, score, score.

In regards to what team takes him, I am at a complete loss. Maybe NYK makes sense if they miss out on Ball. I actually would love Knox back as I think he is just in a terrible situation and would be much better served playing as a backup PF
BK_2020
RealGM
Posts: 17,023
And1: 15,759
Joined: Sep 08, 2020
 

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1689 » by BK_2020 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:13 pm

His usage dropped and his assist rate DROPPED? No **** way....
User avatar
Celts17Pride
RealGM
Posts: 68,434
And1: 70,191
Joined: Nov 27, 2005

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1690 » by Celts17Pride » Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:14 pm

Marcus Smart's FG Pct is better than Kemba, 3Pt Pct is better than Kemba, Assists Per Game is better than Kemba and Assist/TO Ratio is better than Kemba. Smart is light years ahead of Kemba on defense.

What is the point of Kemba Walker?
BK_2020
RealGM
Posts: 17,023
And1: 15,759
Joined: Sep 08, 2020
 

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1691 » by BK_2020 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:55 pm

It's pretty obvious that Kemba is the only one on the team who can consistently breakdown defenses, even when he's coming back from an experimental knee procedure. Marcus and PP don't warp defenses when they penetrate because the defenses know they'll just pull it back or miss.
Image

Kemba might not be the best PG we can get for $37 mil. but we are better off with him than without.
User avatar
zoyathedestroya
RealGM
Posts: 41,124
And1: 98,273
Joined: Nov 05, 2017

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1692 » by zoyathedestroya » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:00 pm

Kemba assisting to his teammates might be the least of our issues with him. He assists as often as a Jrue Holiday or Dejounte Murray. That is not the reason he was brought in. He's never been a traditional PG. He's a scoring guard. Problem is his scoring is down along with his efficiency. He never really got to the line much and that also went down. He was never much of a finisher around the rim. Rate and efficiency are both down too. We're seeing pre-AS Kemba who's an inefficient chucker and often is a liability on defense. Now we're even seeing possessions where he just gives up or barely tries. I'm sure he's swell in the locker room and the guys on the team love him though.

Sadly, I think we're stuck with him for another full season.
BK_2020
RealGM
Posts: 17,023
And1: 15,759
Joined: Sep 08, 2020
 

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1693 » by BK_2020 » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:04 pm

Imagine if we had Payton Pritchard starting and playing 35 mins a game.
Image
bucknersrevenge
RealGM
Posts: 11,359
And1: 15,385
Joined: Jul 05, 2012
Location: Southern Maryland
Contact:
         

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1694 » by bucknersrevenge » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:31 pm

JediMasterRevan wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
JediMasterRevan wrote:Who is Danny going to be able to pawn Kemba off on at end of season?

I mean there has to be someone right?

If not what are the odds that Kemba comes off bench next season? As someone else pointed out in another thread, taking all his defensive woes out of the equation, kemba is the lead guard playing with a couple of young studs like Tatum and Brown and has not once had a game with at least 10 assists.


They didn't sign him to be THAT kind of playmaker and as someone else noted, considering how much Usage goes to the Jay's, it's really not surprising that he hasn't hit 10 assists. That's not the part to be concerned with. The issue is that he's an inefficient shooter (Though he is now converting at the rim which is a pleasant sign). Sending him to the bench kills what little trade value he even has.

You're gonna have to try a team like NYK, who might value bringing a native son home. They have the cap space for days and they are dying for more offense from the backcourt.Might have to take back players like Knox or Frankie Smokes who just haven't cut it on Broadway and they want to get out from under those deals. OKC might be willing to take him on for Horford. In either case we would need to provide some kind of sweetener in the form of someone like maybe Nesmith or a future pick or something, maybe both. In either case you do it, no questions asked. After that, the options start to dry up quickly.

IMHO, Kemba's minutes need to drop to about 25-ish a game now with Romeo back. Even moreso as FournHub eventually returns. The more you play Kemba, the more our defense is compromised. And if he's not hitting his jumpshot, his offensive value plummets. When Brad has options like Fournier, Smart,Romeo, and Pritchard to go, there's no reason not to use them. Doesn't mean Kemba doesn't play. He just plays less. Only 4 players I think should get at least 30mpg when healthy on this team: The Jay's, Fournier, and Rob.



Kemba is the the 31st highest usage guard in the league.

And that is including guys like
Beal
Booker
McCollum
Lou Williams
Lavine
Tautm
Brown
ahead of him. Guys that not points.


I have 11 point guards ahead of him in usage.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced/?sort=USG_PCT&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=G&StarterBench=Starters

Also, when joining the celtics (a far superior team than what he was leaving) his usage dropped from 31.5 to 27.2 (4.3 points) and his assists rate DROPPED from 29.4 to 24.2 (5.1 points)

So DESPITe playing for a superior team, with superior talent, Kembas assist rate went DOWN in boston.


Kemba off the bench might ressurect him too though. Coming in, not being counted on to be a defender, or to be a 3rd or 4th option on the court he can just go back to Uconn/Charlotte Kemba. Score, score, score.

In regards to what team takes him, I am at a complete loss. Maybe NYK makes sense if they miss out on Ball. I actually would love Knox back as I think he is just in a terrible situation and would be much better served playing as a backup PF


Right. In context, this makes sense. Kemba is not in the same role here as he was in Charlotte. In Charlotte he WAS their whole offense. Here's he's not and yet, he's always had the mentality of a #1 scorer. That after all is what he's been his entire life going back to high school. He's always been a scorer first, playmaker second. And now, playing with 2 playmakers just as capable as him, he's slotted into the unfamiliar role of #3 scorer and even less responsibility as a passer with the Jay's and the likes of Marcus Smart. here. His job is to score here. Anything else is bonus.
and that's "MR. Irrelevant" to you!!

Founder of The Red's Disciples Podcast
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKArn8FGRYRxGqNDg8J4IAQ/featured
JediMasterRevan
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,856
And1: 1,047
Joined: Nov 06, 2020

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1695 » by JediMasterRevan » Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:27 pm

bucknersrevenge wrote:
JediMasterRevan wrote:
bucknersrevenge wrote:
They didn't sign him to be THAT kind of playmaker and as someone else noted, considering how much Usage goes to the Jay's, it's really not surprising that he hasn't hit 10 assists. That's not the part to be concerned with. The issue is that he's an inefficient shooter (Though he is now converting at the rim which is a pleasant sign). Sending him to the bench kills what little trade value he even has.

You're gonna have to try a team like NYK, who might value bringing a native son home. They have the cap space for days and they are dying for more offense from the backcourt.Might have to take back players like Knox or Frankie Smokes who just haven't cut it on Broadway and they want to get out from under those deals. OKC might be willing to take him on for Horford. In either case we would need to provide some kind of sweetener in the form of someone like maybe Nesmith or a future pick or something, maybe both. In either case you do it, no questions asked. After that, the options start to dry up quickly.

IMHO, Kemba's minutes need to drop to about 25-ish a game now with Romeo back. Even moreso as FournHub eventually returns. The more you play Kemba, the more our defense is compromised. And if he's not hitting his jumpshot, his offensive value plummets. When Brad has options like Fournier, Smart,Romeo, and Pritchard to go, there's no reason not to use them. Doesn't mean Kemba doesn't play. He just plays less. Only 4 players I think should get at least 30mpg when healthy on this team: The Jay's, Fournier, and Rob.



Kemba is the the 31st highest usage guard in the league.

And that is including guys like
Beal
Booker
McCollum
Lou Williams
Lavine
Tautm
Brown
ahead of him. Guys that not points.


I have 11 point guards ahead of him in usage.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/advanced/?sort=USG_PCT&dir=-1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PlayerPosition=G&StarterBench=Starters

Also, when joining the celtics (a far superior team than what he was leaving) his usage dropped from 31.5 to 27.2 (4.3 points) and his assists rate DROPPED from 29.4 to 24.2 (5.1 points)

So DESPITe playing for a superior team, with superior talent, Kembas assist rate went DOWN in boston.


Kemba off the bench might ressurect him too though. Coming in, not being counted on to be a defender, or to be a 3rd or 4th option on the court he can just go back to Uconn/Charlotte Kemba. Score, score, score.

In regards to what team takes him, I am at a complete loss. Maybe NYK makes sense if they miss out on Ball. I actually would love Knox back as I think he is just in a terrible situation and would be much better served playing as a backup PF


Right. In context, this makes sense. Kemba is not in the same role here as he was in Charlotte. In Charlotte he WAS their whole offense. Here's he's not and yet, he's always had the mentality of a #1 scorer. That after all is what he's been his entire life going back to high school. He's always been a scorer first, playmaker second. And now, playing with 2 playmakers just as capable as him, he's slotted into the unfamiliar role of #3 scorer and even less responsibility as a passer with the Jay's and the likes of Marcus Smart. here. His job is to score here. Anything else is bonus.



Which is why I am team trade and bench.

1st guard off the benchc lets him be 1sr/2nd scorer when tatum or brown sit letting the other take a backseat a bit
User avatar
theman
RealGM
Posts: 13,585
And1: 1,437
Joined: May 23, 2001

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1696 » by theman » Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:29 pm

Curmudgeon wrote:So where is the mythical buyout candidate who will lead us to the 4th seed?


He is playing in Brooklyn.
"Just because you like my stuff doesn't mean I owe you anything." - Bob Dylan

"All this talk about equality. The only thing people really have in common is that they are all going to die." - Bob Dylan
Fencer reregistered
RealGM
Posts: 41,064
And1: 27,932
Joined: Oct 25, 2006

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1697 » by Fencer reregistered » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:18 am

Celts17Pride wrote:Marcus Smart's FG Pct is better than Kemba, 3Pt Pct is better than Kemba, Assists Per Game is better than Kemba and Assist/TO Ratio is better than Kemba. Smart is light years ahead of Kemba on defense.

What is the point of Kemba Walker?


Has Nick Nurse ever centered a box-and-one on Marcus Smart?
Banned temporarily for, among other sins, being "Extremely Deviant".
bucknersrevenge
RealGM
Posts: 11,359
And1: 15,385
Joined: Jul 05, 2012
Location: Southern Maryland
Contact:
         

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1698 » by bucknersrevenge » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:06 pm

Fencer reregistered wrote:
Celts17Pride wrote:Marcus Smart's FG Pct is better than Kemba, 3Pt Pct is better than Kemba, Assists Per Game is better than Kemba and Assist/TO Ratio is better than Kemba. Smart is light years ahead of Kemba on defense.

What is the point of Kemba Walker?


Has Nick Nurse ever centered a box-and-one on Marcus Smart?


If Danny doesn't trade Marcus this offseason, if I'm Marcus' agent, I know I have Danny completely over a barrel with his pants down. Either lose my guy for nothing or give him what he wants. And if I'm Marcus, in my next deal with Boston, I tell Danny and Brad "I want the ball". I want to be the UNQUESTIONED starting ballhandler for this team. And 4/75 is the STARTING place for negotiations.
and that's "MR. Irrelevant" to you!!

Founder of The Red's Disciples Podcast
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCKArn8FGRYRxGqNDg8J4IAQ/featured
BK_2020
RealGM
Posts: 17,023
And1: 15,759
Joined: Sep 08, 2020
 

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1699 » by BK_2020 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:09 pm

Marcus Smart is probably getting traded this off-season anyway.
User avatar
31to6
RealGM
Posts: 20,524
And1: 30,909
Joined: Nov 20, 2004
Location: Tatum train

Re: It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread 

Post#1700 » by 31to6 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:24 pm

I don't think Danny would trade Smart.
I don't think Danny could trade Kemba. Unless it were to somehow clear up some money under the tax to resign Smart.
Paul Pierce appreciation society.

Return to Boston Celtics