Fixing New Orleans

[Ell Curry]

I'm not sure it makes sense for New Orleans to do anything until Adams and Bledsoe are closer to expiring and they can be packaged with picks for a stretch 5.

Basically, you have Lonzo-Ingram-Zion and then some promising bench pieces in Lewis-NAW-Hart-Hayes. So you have an obvious need for a starting PG who can run the show and a 5 who can anchor the D but still shoot the ball.

My guess is Griffin will use the picks to acquire those 2 pieces to save his job, so maybe something like

Would Indy do the Pels pick (10th overall), an unprotected Lakers pick of their choice, an unprotected Milwaukee pick of their choice, Adams, Bledsoe and NAW for Brogdon and Turner?

That's basically 3 first rounders and NAW for those 2 guys to try to get some younger talent in around the Levert-Warren-Sabonis core.

Brogdon-Ball-Ingram-Zion-Turner
(Lewis-Hart-Hayes)

somehow feels like it would still disappoint, but yeah, those types of things.

Another interesting one would be something around Ingram, Adams and NAW for OG Anunoby, Boucher and VanVleet. Big move for both teams obviously, but the Raps would have Trent-Ingram-Siakam and 2 top 12 picks and a re-signed Lowry or a signed 5 to fill the other 2 spots. Ingram gets a team to be the #1 starter on and Masai/Webster would still have some flexibility. Pels would have VanVleet-Ball-OG-Zion-Boucher as a starting lineup that should actually let Zion thrive with a ton of shooting around him and a solid bench of Hayes,Hart, and Lewis and their draft pick would presumably be a big man of some kind, ideally one who could shoot a bit, though this draft is light on those guys and they might be better off just signing someone like Theis to the MLE to split time with Boucher as a floor spacer and defensive 5 option.

Could also see a massive offer for Jonathan Isaac making sense to try to give them a defensive presence since Zion can just guard 5s. Would Orlando take 3 firsts and Bledsoe/Adams for him and just go full rebuild? It would certainly ensure them a proper tank for a couple years.

TLDR: Griffin probably gonna have to cash in those picks on the best under 28 players he can get.

[Scoot McGroot]

I'm not sure it makes sense for New Orleans to do anything until Adams and Bledsoe are closer to expiring and they can be packaged with picks for a stretch 5.

Basically, you have Lonzo-Ingram-Zion and then some promising bench pieces in Lewis-NAW-Hart-Hayes. So you have an obvious need for a starting PG who can run the show and a 5 who can anchor the D but still shoot the ball.

My guess is Griffin will use the picks to acquire those 2 pieces to save his job, so maybe something like

Would Indy do the Pels pick (10th overall), an unprotected Lakers pick of their choice, an unprotected Milwaukee pick of their choice, Adams, Bledsoe and NAW for Brogdon and Turner?

That's basically 3 first rounders and NAW for those 2 guys to try to get some younger talent in around the Levert-Warren-Sabonis core.

Brogdon-Ball-Ingram-Zion-Turner
(Lewis-Hart-Hayes).

No, Indy wouldn’t do that. LA has since locked in AD and Lebron is infinitely likely to stick around. Milwaukee has locked up Giannis, Middleton, and Jrue. The 10 alone doesn’t get either Brogdon or Turner, especially with unwanted salary attached, and adding in 2 future, low value 1sts isn’t enough to get the other guy, along with more unwanted salary.

[mg]

The clock is definitely ticking.

Griffin has to have a roster that makes sense by the trade deadline of next year, and they need to be on their way towards a playoff team.

If not I think Griffin gets shown the door. They can't mess around forever. Next year is a bit of a make or break year.

Yep. It sounds crazy as next season will only be Zion's 3rd in the league but they took a big step back this year. It's go time esp for these mid markets as soon as they uncover a star. There's really no time for many lost seasons or the star player, Zion in this case, will be demanding a trade before the end of his 2nd contract. That scenario has played out over and over the past few years (CP3, Melo, PG, Kawhi, Kyrie, AD, Butler, Harden).

If Griffin can't get them on the right track in the next year then he should probably be replaced.

[Wolveswin]

I'm not sure it makes sense for New Orleans to do anything until Adams and Bledsoe are closer to expiring and they can be packaged with picks for a stretch 5.

Basically, you have Lonzo-Ingram-Zion and then some promising bench pieces in Lewis-NAW-Hart-Hayes. So you have an obvious need for a starting PG who can run the show and a 5 who can anchor the D but still shoot the ball.

My guess is Griffin will use the picks to acquire those 2 pieces to save his job, so maybe something like

Would Indy do the Pels pick (10th overall), an unprotected Lakers pick of their choice, an unprotected Milwaukee pick of their choice, Adams, Bledsoe and NAW for Brogdon and Turner?

That's basically 3 first rounders and NAW for those 2 guys to try to get some younger talent in around the Levert-Warren-Sabonis core.

Brogdon-Ball-Ingram-Zion-Turner
(Lewis-Hart-Hayes).

No, Indy wouldn’t do that. LA has since locked in AD and Lebron is infinitely likely to stick around. Milwaukee has locked up Giannis, Middleton, and Jrue. The 10 alone doesn’t get either Brogdon or Turner, especially with unwanted salary attached, and adding in 2 future, low value 1sts isn’t enough to get the other guy, along with more unwanted salary.

What if it was Adams + Hayes + NAW + 2021 1st + as many owed Pelicans 1sts Pacers need for Turner + Lamb?

[Scoot McGroot]

I'm not sure it makes sense for New Orleans to do anything until Adams and Bledsoe are closer to expiring and they can be packaged with picks for a stretch 5.

Basically, you have Lonzo-Ingram-Zion and then some promising bench pieces in Lewis-NAW-Hart-Hayes. So you have an obvious need for a starting PG who can run the show and a 5 who can anchor the D but still shoot the ball.

My guess is Griffin will use the picks to acquire those 2 pieces to save his job, so maybe something like

Would Indy do the Pels pick (10th overall), an unprotected Lakers pick of their choice, an unprotected Milwaukee pick of their choice, Adams, Bledsoe and NAW for Brogdon and Turner?

That's basically 3 first rounders and NAW for those 2 guys to try to get some younger talent in around the Levert-Warren-Sabonis core.

Brogdon-Ball-Ingram-Zion-Turner
(Lewis-Hart-Hayes).

No, Indy wouldn’t do that. LA has since locked in AD and Lebron is infinitely likely to stick around. Milwaukee has locked up Giannis, Middleton, and Jrue. The 10 alone doesn’t get either Brogdon or Turner, especially with unwanted salary attached, and adding in 2 future, low value 1sts isn’t enough to get the other guy, along with more unwanted salary.

What if it was Adams + Hayes + NAW + 2021 1st + as many owed Pelicans 1sts Pacers need for Turner + Lamb?

It’s a hard fit. If we deal Turner, it’s because we’re not looking to continue the “play 2 centers at all time together” and so Adams and Hayes are beyond unnecessary, and would be a waste of value/players. We would still have Sabonis, and we love Goga behind him already. We’d be looking for a vet minimum type 3rd center. Otherwise, we’re talking about dealing Turner for just a bunch of unknown future 1sts, which Indy hasn’t done since the 80’s. We haven’t owned another teams future 1st, not once, since the 90’s started. We value known commodities/players (in the sense that we know exactly who we’re getting and what they’re projected of) rather than pure lotto tickets and tanking a bit. Even then, the LA picks are devalued now that AD has re-signed long-term, and Lebron likely is going to retire there, and Milwaukee picks are devalued too, with Giannis, Jrue, and Middleton all locked up long-term, too. As for NAW, he’s a fine prospect, but is he needed while we still have a Levert? Plus, it’s really parting out Turner into 4, 5, or more pieces and splitting his value amongst all of them, and we’re already have a lot of bodies and talented players, but if the belief is that we’re going to completely tear down, then we’re going to get overloaded with picks and players quickly from other teams too in this style of rebuild.

If we dealt both Turner and Sabonis, I would love Adams at that point as a vet center to pair with Goga at the 5. But, if we keep even one, I don’t see a use for him. I also don’t see Hayes having value to Indy as we already have our developmental 5 that is arguably further along than Hayes.

[Zion Wembanyama]

I'm not sure it makes sense for New Orleans to do anything until Adams and Bledsoe are closer to expiring and they can be packaged with picks for a stretch 5.

Basically, you have Lonzo-Ingram-Zion and then some promising bench pieces in Lewis-NAW-Hart-Hayes. So you have an obvious need for a starting PG who can run the show and a 5 who can anchor the D but still shoot the ball.

My guess is Griffin will use the picks to acquire those 2 pieces to save his job, so maybe something like

Would Indy do the Pels pick (10th overall), an unprotected Lakers pick of their choice, an unprotected Milwaukee pick of their choice, Adams, Bledsoe and NAW for Brogdon and Turner?

That's basically 3 first rounders and NAW for those 2 guys to try to get some younger talent in around the Levert-Warren-Sabonis core.

Brogdon-Ball-Ingram-Zion-Turner
(Lewis-Hart-Hayes).

No, Indy wouldn’t do that. LA has since locked in AD and Lebron is infinitely likely to stick around. Milwaukee has locked up Giannis, Middleton, and Jrue. The 10 alone doesn’t get either Brogdon or Turner, especially with unwanted salary attached, and adding in 2 future, low value 1sts isn’t enough to get the other guy, along with more unwanted salary.

What if it was Adams + Hayes + NAW + 2021 1st + as many owed Pelicans 1sts Pacers need for Turner + Lamb?

No thanks from Nawlins.

[lordjeff05]

I think if we are going to talk about fixing New Orleans, then there needs to be an understanding of what the problem is to begin with. Put simply, the two biggest problems for the Pelicans were the bench and clutch time. First off folks have to understand that the team is not at the same place it started at the beginning of the year.

This team was assumed to be a defensive team with spacing issues that would limit its ability to win. Thats not really happened at all. There had been some talk about Zion initiating part of the offense but nothing like what we’ve seen.

Since shifting to point Zion, the Pelicans have become an elite offensive team. I mention that because most people seem to believe that fixing the Pelicans means making changes on offense to address the perceived issue of spacing, which doesn’t make sense because the offense is fine, actually it’s more than fine. And specifically, replacing Adams with a floor spacing 5 to improve the offense, doesn’t make as much sense as people assume it does. Zion and Adams have an offensive rating of 116.1 when playing together, which would be a top 5 offense. It’s also the 5 highest rating of Zion with any of his teammates even though they play most of their minutes against starting defenses. What people don’t realize offensively is that Adams’ ability to screen and offensive rebound is incredibly valuable to the offense.

Where Adams becomes a problem is in the clutch. The relevance of that is there aren’t too many centers who would be a) better floor spacers b) better defenders c) and attainable.

If the Pels had invested in a better shooting player like Vuc, we’d likely have the same issues in crunch time.

Everybody is frustrated with Bledsoe but honestly the starting group has been fine with a healthy plus 3 net rating. Again the issues really only become a problem in the clutch.

The issue has been the bench, but (with small sample size caveats), they had begin to turn a corner. The bench lineup of Zion with Kira Lewis, NAW, Josh Hart, and Jaxon Hayes had begun to play really well, like plus 30 net rating well. Then two of those guys went down.

But if that lineup had been playing this well all year we’d be 5 games better in our record then we are, and we wouldn’t be having conversations about fixing the Pelicans. Again what’s interesting is that Zion can be really productive next to a non shooting big. He’s got a plus 26 net rating when next to Jax over the last 15 games which is a major improvement because that pairing was horrible to begin the year (negative 9.7 net rating). So essentially the bench has fixed itself.

All of this to say that I’m not sure that the Pels have to do anything drastic other than find a backup for Zion that they can pair with Zion in the clutch. I’d love to see James Johnson get some of those minutes this year in that type of lineup.

My dream off-season would be trading Bledsoe, our pick and the Lakers pick for Larry Nance and Taurean Prince. And resigning Hart and Zo.

Starting Prince would give the team some extra length and switchability, and Nance would be perfect in that bench role I just discussed.

We’d roll out the same starts as this year plus Prince and minus Bled, we’d do a mid quarter switch of Hart and Nance for Z and Prince, and start the second and 4 with Lewis, NAW, Hart, Z and Hayes close out games with the Zo, Z, BI, Nance and either Hart or Prince depending on the matchup.

There are some good pieces in this draft I worry
About trying to develop too many players at one time. The moves I suggested could have us competing for home court next year (with health) and would set up for future upgrades later if we need them.

[StreakyJ]

I said it early on and it's even more true of late.

Westbrook would have gotten them into the playoffs.

[ADMVP]

I think if we are going to talk about fixing New Orleans, then there needs to be an understanding of what the problem is to begin with. Put simply, the two biggest problems for the Pelicans were the bench and clutch time. First off folks have to understand that the team is not at the same place it started at the beginning of the year.

This team was assumed to be a defensive team with spacing issues that would limit its ability to win. Thats not really happened at all. There had been some talk about Zion initiating part of the offense but nothing like what we’ve seen.

Since shifting to point Zion, the Pelicans have become an elite offensive team. I mention that because most people seem to believe that fixing the Pelicans means making changes on offense to address the perceived issue of spacing, which doesn’t make sense because the offense is fine, actually it’s more than fine. And specifically, replacing Adams with a floor spacing 5 to improve the offense, doesn’t make as much sense as people assume it does. Zion and Adams have an offensive rating of 116.1 when playing together, which would be a top 5 offense. It’s also the 5 highest rating of Zion with any of his teammates even though they play most of their minutes against starting defenses. What people don’t realize offensively is that Adams’ ability to screen and offensive rebound is incredibly valuable to the offense.

Where Adams becomes a problem is in the clutch. The relevance of that is there aren’t too many centers who would be a) better floor spacers b) better defenders c) and attainable.

If the Pels had invested in a better shooting player like Vuc, we’d likely have the same issues in crunch time.

Everybody is frustrated with Bledsoe but honestly the starting group has been fine with a healthy plus 3 net rating. Again the issues really only become a problem in the clutch.

The issue has been the bench, but (with small sample size caveats), they had begin to turn a corner. The bench lineup of Zion with Kira Lewis, NAW, Josh Hart, and Jaxon Hayes had begun to play really well, like plus 30 net rating well. Then two of those guys went down.

But if that lineup had been playing this well all year we’d be 5 games better in our record then we are, and we wouldn’t be having conversations about fixing the Pelicans. Again what’s interesting is that Zion can be really productive next to a non shooting big. He’s got a plus 26 net rating when next to Jax over the last 15 games which is a major improvement because that pairing was horrible to begin the year (negative 9.7 net rating). So essentially the bench has fixed itself.

All of this to say that I’m not sure that the Pels have to do anything drastic other than find a backup for Zion that they can pair with Zion in the clutch. I’d love to see James Johnson get some of those minutes this year in that type of lineup.

My dream off-season would be trading Bledsoe, our pick and the Lakers pick for Larry Nance and Taurean Prince. And resigning Hart and Zo.

Starting Prince would give the team some extra length and switchability, and Nance would be perfect in that bench role I just discussed.

We’d roll out the same starts as this year plus Prince and minus Bled, we’d do a mid quarter switch of Hart and Nance for Z and Prince, and start the second and 4 with Lewis, NAW, Hart, Z and Hayes close out games with the Zo, Z, BI, Nance and either Hart or Prince depending on the matchup.

There are some good pieces in this draft I worry
About trying to develop too many players at one time. The moves I suggested could have us competing for home court next year (with health) and would set up for future upgrades later if we need them.

Agreed. The trades proposed here are evident of people not watching the games.

Sent from my SM-N960U1 using Tapatalk

[Ell Curry]

Makes sense. New Orleans look good with Zion as the real focal point, and I'd certainly re-sign Lonzo unless there's a great offer, but long-term you have to think their first contending lineup is gonna be: ShootingBig-Zion-Ingram-Ball-Guard with Hayes-Hart-Naw-Lewis as a really talented bench. So they're in great shape, but the question is still can Bledsoe, Adams and picks be turned into a really solid 2-way guard or a 3 and D centre, with Hayes or one of Lewis/NAW developing into the other role.

Long-term, in like 2022/23, I could see Lavine leaving and Chicago looking to rebuild and Vucevic being traded basically for a little less than he went to Chicago far for an expiring Bledsoe, Adams and a pick.

I guess that's a good questions for the Pels fans, do you see any of Hayes, NAW or Lewis as likely future top 20 starters at their positions? Because if it's one of the guards, you should be targeting a big, and if it's not I'd love to see this team with a Van Vleet or other quality 2-way guard. Toronto is an interesting fit as well since Boucher could give you a 3 and D center, and they would seriously have to consider a signed and trade Lonzo for Van Vleet and Boucher because it makes them younger and adds upside, while New Orleans could have Zion guard 5s, Boucher guard 4s and spread the floor on O and more importantly a still young Van Vleet to anchor the team at both ends and hit 3s to give Ingram and Zion spacing, and he wouldn't have to take the tough attempts at the rim that bring him down from a top 8-10 PG to closer to middle of the pack.

The draft will be interesting. Mitchell from Baylor looks like a good fit as a 2-way guard and the kind of culture changer you could probably still use in terms of toughness and focus. Would a Zion-Scotty Barnes-Ingram-Hart-Ball lineup be big enough? Could certainly play fast.

[StreakyJ]

Atleast they got rid of Reddick. Terrible signing from the get go.

[zimpy27]

I'd start with moving Adams and Bledsoe for Horford. Probably needs a third team.

I think Adams is the perfect C for GSW system but not sure who they could give in trade.

[zimpy27]

Does this work?

GSW send Looney/Wiseman/Wiggins for Adams/Kenrich/($29m)TPE
Curry, Klay, Kenrich, Green, Adams -- Poole, Bazemore, Paschall

NOP send Adams/Bledsoe for Horford
Lonzo, Hart, Ingram, Zion, Horford -- Kira, NAW, Hayes

OKC send Horford/Kenrich for Bledsoe/Wiseman/Looney/Wiggins
Maledon, SGA, Wiggins, Poku, Wiseman -- Bledsoe, Dort, Svi, Bazley, Looney

[Scoot McGroot]

Does this work?

GSW send Looney/Wiseman/Wiggins for Adams/Kenrich/($29m)TPE
Curry, Klay, Kenrich, Green, Adams -- Poole, Bazemore, Paschall

NOP send Adams/Bledsoe for Horford
Lonzo, Hart, Ingram, Zion, Horford -- Kira, NAW, Hayes

OKC send Horford/Kenrich for Bledsoe/Wiseman/Looney/Wiggins
Maledon, SGA, Wiggins, Poku, Wiseman -- Bledsoe, Dort, Svi, Bazley, Looney

That seems like an overpay for the Warriors, for sure. But it could be different if they had someone roped in immediately to fill that TPE. I don’t see them sending out Wiseman, one of their only two “incentives” to attach to a TPE, just to hang onto a large TPE waiting for awhile like they did last year (and ended up with Oubre).

[lordjeff05]

I'd start with moving Adams and Bledsoe for Horford. Probably needs a third team.

I think Adams is the perfect C for GSW system but not sure who they could give in trade.

So part of my problem with these Horford trades is that at his age, I’m not convinced he’s any more mobile than Adams, and whatever he gain with floor spacing we lose with offensive and defensive rebounding,

This goes back to what I was saying before. I get the fit arguments, but when you watch the team or even check out the lineup data, you see that problem is really defense, bench units and clutch time and I don’t think a Horford trade will address those issues.

[BlazersBroncos]

My dream off-season would be trading Bledsoe, our pick and the Lakers pick for Larry Nance and Taurean Prince. And resigning Hart and Zo.

I love this move for NO. Not sure you need to add that LAL pick if the Pelicans remain around #11 in 2021 draft.

[Scoot McGroot]

My dream off-season would be trading Bledsoe, our pick and the Lakers pick for Larry Nance and Taurean Prince. And resigning Hart and Zo.

I love this move for NO. Not sure you need to add that LAL pick if the Pelicans remain around #11 in 2021 draft.

Uh, they might, but it will be a little close. Nance should return good value on his own, and here, the Cavs would also be dealing the expiring Prince for Bledsoe's partial guarantee a year after. 11 might be enough. But 13 might not be, if that makes sense? It's a pretty thin line.

[Duke4life831]

Unless they get lucky and find a team willing to take Adams without a draft pick (unless its one of the MIL swaps), you bit the bullet and keep him on the team for the next 2 years at 17 mil a year. The plan going forward should be Adams as a tough big coming off the bench for 15-18 minutes next season. Then you flip him next summer since he will be an expiring deal and shouldnt be hard to move him then.

Unless you find a deal that the cap is needed in the summer, I think its too late now to use a pick to dump his contract. With his final year only being guaranteed for 3.9 mil, you can easily view him as an expiring deal next year (a buyout shouldnt be too hard to workout). Id also move him to the bench as well.

So going into the summer this is how I would be viewing the roster

Lonzo/Kira
???/Hart
Ingram/???
Zion/???
???/Adams/Hayes

#1 thing I would be looking for is a stretch big. I would be using any of the 3 young players (Kira/NAW/Hayes) plus picks to look to get a legit stretch 5. Then at the 2 spot I would be looking for a guy that really knows how to move off the ball and excels in the catch and shoot. There is a few ways they can go here. I think a trade for a player like Donte/Grayson would be a good fit and shouldnt be too expensive to get. Both guys are good defenders and good scorers off the ball. Or you can draft a guy like Kispert. Or you can use your cap space to get a guy like Trent Jr (I think the cap would be better spent on a stretch big though).

Ideally they throw whatever young guys and picks they can to get Myles Turner. If they cant get him, I would look at short term options then like throwing some money at Serge Ibaka for a 1 or 2 year deal.

[Xman]

Agree with resign Ball and Hart.
Horford trade is ok.

NO could really use - starting sg/pg (both if not keeping ball), backup pf, backup sf.

Hart, NAW, KLewis should take the backup roles at guard. Hopefully, they develop more.
Hayes and Adams should be solid at C.
If NO isnt sold on those five guys holding down those spots, they should try to ship them along with Bledsoe.

Hopefully, they can find quality backups at sf and pf in free agency or minor trades (Horford, etc.).

The sg/pg spot is the biggest hole. Lonzo is a combo guard. Another playmaking combo guard could work. A shooting guard with a great shot or maybe a mega defender.
I think they target - - Suggs, Green, DMitchell. All will be gone by pick 10, probably top 6 or 7. So, I would target one and move up for him.

Another option is to trade for a sg or pg (preferably young but talented enough to be a solid producer) -
- package #10, KLewis, 2022 and 2024 LAL 1sts, 2025 Mil 1st for Shai (maybe include bledsoe.horford swap).
- or - bledsoe and #12 for Hield
- or - bledsoe and #12 plus picks for VanVleet
- or - #12, 2022 LAL 1st and package of 2nds for Precious and DRobinson
- or - KLewis and pick #12 (and miami pick if needed ) for DGarland

[collidingNeurons]

I know this isn't a Ja vs Zion thread but to argue that debate isn't warranted is silly, Zion is an amazing talent and no one is debating that but the fact he hasn't lead a team of arguably more talent than Ja has to at least an equal record isn't unreasonable.

To the original OP's topic, The pelicans are horrible defensively, and to have to talents like Ingram and Williamson and starting they have to both get better defensively or that pairing needs to be broken up eventually