Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow!

[pepe1991]

There is nothing about Vucevic wanting out, only us informing him that there are talks ongoing. Its totally different behaviour between Vuc and AG.

You can establish timeline easly.
GOrdon asked for trade in February. He probably told his teammates as well. They all knew he is going to leave. Weltman figured old nucleus of team won't be there any longer, as Evan also kind a said he won't return. So they had talk with Vuc about trades.
I mean it's normal human behavior and being open and honest. You don't really trying to back-stab anybody as GM because almost all players have same agents and they tend to be friends off court as well.

I really don't understand why we are still talking so much about Vuc in general. He was good player here, he was traded. End of a story.

We are still talking so much about Vuc because the current team isn't much to talk about IMO. That would be my guess. There's really only so much you can discuss about a team that gets blown out just about every night.

Thats why i wrote my sig below. Rebuild sounds like fun, until you have to root to lose 10 in a row.

[Bergmaniac]

They are trashing Vuc on the general board.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

They are trashing Vuc and by extension the Bulls for the trade. Jeeez. Its been what? 10 games? You expect to make major trades and expect winning basketball right away? Let them mesh first.

It's the general board, kneejerking is the name of the game. Plus, most of the posters don't even watch the teams they comment on more than once in a blue moon.

[thelead]

You can establish timeline easly.
GOrdon asked for trade in February. He probably told his teammates as well. They all knew he is going to leave. Weltman figured old nucleus of team won't be there any longer, as Evan also kind a said he won't return. So they had talk with Vuc about trades.
I mean it's normal human behavior and being open and honest. You don't really trying to back-stab anybody as GM because almost all players have same agents and they tend to be friends off court as well.

I really don't understand why we are still talking so much about Vuc in general. He was good player here, he was traded. End of a story.

We are still talking so much about Vuc because the current team isn't much to talk about IMO. That would be my guess. There's really only so much you can discuss about a team that gets blown out just about every night.

Thats why i wrote my sig below. Rebuild sounds like fun, until you have to root to lose 10 in a row.

To be honest, I'm enjoying this way more than the last two years. The games haven't been pretty but there are games within games (player development) but even more important, rooting for other teams to win/lose. I've been watching the teams below us and above us a ton more now that we've committed to the draft. It has been awesome so far.

Obviously, the ultimate goal is to grab your superstar and start winning but I can enjoy the journey. I know that most people can't and that's their problem.

[thelead]

They are trashing Vuc on the general board.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

They are trashing Vuc and by extension the Bulls for the trade. Jeeez. Its been what? 10 games? You expect to make major trades and expect winning basketball right away? Let them mesh first.

It's the general board, kneejerking is the name of the game. Plus, most of the posters don't even watch the teams they comment on more than once in a blue moon.

I've watched all the bulls games since the trade. You would expect Vuc to regularly have a bigger impact than Theis (his is also new to the team). That has not happened.

[RookieStar]

They are trashing Vuc and by extension the Bulls for the trade. Jeeez. Its been what? 10 games? You expect to make major trades and expect winning basketball right away? Let them mesh first.

It's the general board, kneejerking is the name of the game. Plus, most of the posters don't even watch the teams they comment on more than once in a blue moon.

I've watched all the bulls games since the trade. You would expect Vuc to regularly have a bigger impact than Theis (his is also new to the team). That has not happened.

I think its because his new teammates have not been passing to him as much as we did. We use Vuc to initiate the offense. There, LAvin is thier first alpha and then they have wannabe scorers to share the table with Vuc

[pepe1991]

We are still talking so much about Vuc because the current team isn't much to talk about IMO. That would be my guess. There's really only so much you can discuss about a team that gets blown out just about every night.

Thats why i wrote my sig below. Rebuild sounds like fun, until you have to root to lose 10 in a row.

To be honest, I'm enjoying this way more than the last two years. The games haven't been pretty but there are games within games (player development) but even more important, rooting for other teams to win/lose. I've been watching the teams below us and above us a ton more now that we've committed to the draft. It has been awesome so far.

Obviously, the ultimate goal is to grab your superstar and start winning but I can enjoy the journey. I know that most people can't and that's their problem.

I don't get where's "developing " part if you are being steamrolled by team that is fighting to win 50% of games?
I really really don't belive anybody is gaining anything from just existing on the floor for 20-25 min, hoisting 5-14 shots a night and playing without any structure or purpose. And that's pretty much Magic- post trade deadline.

After a trade our offensive rating is 102 ( 29th, second to OKC and their G league roster) and 117,9 defensive rating ( 28th, behind again G league OKC and Houston). Our net rating is epic -15,6. True shooting percentage of team as a whole is 50,8% (last).

They don't even cover some basic fundamentals, rebounding percentage makes Magic 5th worst team, assist percentage 3rd worst, assist to turnover ratio 5th worst.

There is really no saving grace about this other than trying to convice yourself that guy putting up some stats, while game is competitive in first 18 min- has any lasting impact on outcome of rest of his career. I highly doubt ( and there is plenty of evidence ) that it has non.

I really don't get what Cole Anthony can get from running non existing offense , around non existing talent, trying to set plays , for players who can't even execute most basic pick&roll action nor swing ball to open shooter. In 4 games he played, Magic were outscored by 68 points while he was in game.
RJ Hampton spent 170 min on the floor, during his existence, Magic were outscored by 99 points. Witch means, during his 18-20ish min per game, Magic tend to be outscored by 13 points at average.


Game threads after a trade had 30 pages during a game, just 2 weeks later, last game had 7 pages after a game. It's simply unwatchable. I said after a trade that i won't be watching any games if i have anything better to do. I just don't see any reason to watch modern day Mo Harkless and Andrew Nicholson. Most of those guys simply won't be anything but bench warmers or out of nba in 3 years. Magic future good roster will probably involve zero current Magic players. That's just reality.

[thelead]

It's the general board, kneejerking is the name of the game. Plus, most of the posters don't even watch the teams they comment on more than once in a blue moon.

I've watched all the bulls games since the trade. You would expect Vuc to regularly have a bigger impact than Theis (his is also new to the team). That has not happened.

I think its because his new teammates have not been passing to him as much as we did. We use Vuc to initiate the offense. There, LAvin is thier first alpha and then they have wannabe scorers to share the table with Vuc

There are two big problems so far:

1) Vuc slows down the offense. The rest of the roster needs to be moving at a much faster pace and the offense just looks like a bunch of 'your turn'/'my turn' between Vuc and Zach.

2) Vuc is abysmal on P&R defense. Just like here, the minute Vuc gets back on the court after a breather, you can see gaurds like Russell and Ja go right at him. Then you pair that with the fact that their guards don't play defense.... yeah, Theis is actually a better fit with the starters for problem 1 and 2. That doesn't mean Theis is better but fit matters.

[thelead]

Thats why i wrote my sig below. Rebuild sounds like fun, until you have to root to lose 10 in a row.

To be honest, I'm enjoying this way more than the last two years. The games haven't been pretty but there are games within games (player development) but even more important, rooting for other teams to win/lose. I've been watching the teams below us and above us a ton more now that we've committed to the draft. It has been awesome so far.

Obviously, the ultimate goal is to grab your superstar and start winning but I can enjoy the journey. I know that most people can't and that's their problem.

I don't get where's "developing " part if you are being steamrolled by team that is fighting to win 50% of games?
I really really don't belive anybody is gaining anything from just existing on the floor for 20-25 min, hoisting 5-14 shots a night and playing without any structure or purpose. And that's pretty much Magic- post trade deadline.

After a trade our offensive rating is 102 ( 29th, second to OKC and their G league roster) and 117,9 defensive rating ( 28th, behind again G league OKC and Houston). Our net rating is epic -15,6. True shooting percentage of team as a whole is 50,8% (last).

They don't even cover some basic fundamentals, rebounding percentage makes Magic 5th worst team, assist percentage 3rd worst, assist to turnover ratio 5th worst.

There is really no saving grace about this other than trying to convice yourself that guy putting up some stats, while game is competitive in first 18 min- has any lasting impact on outcome of rest of his career. I highly doubt ( and there is plenty of evidence ) that it has non.

I really don't get what Cole Anthony can get from running non existing offense , around non existing talent, trying to set plays , for players who can't even execute most basic pick&roll action nor swing ball to open shooter. In 4 games he played, Magic were outscored by 68 points while he was in game.
RJ Hampton spent 170 min on the floor, during his existence, Magic were outscored by 99 points. Witch means, during his 18-20ish min per game, Magic tend to be outscored by 13 points at average.


Game threads after a trade had 30 pages during a game, just 2 weeks later, last game had 7 pages after a game. It's simply unwatchable. I said after a trade that i won't be watching any games if i have anything better to do. I just don't see any reason to watch modern day Mo Harkless and Andrew Nicholson. Most of those guys simply won't be anything but bench warmers or out of nba in 3 years. Magic future good roster will probably involve zero current Magic players. That's just reality.

But that's the thing... you're likely right but we're able to use these games to see if these young guys have something special. Mo, WCJ, and Okeke are the only standouts for likely rotational guys moving forward. Sure, we don't just give up on the other but we're getting a good idea who is REALLY far away and who isn't. None of those 3 are stars, sure but that why we're tanking. If we can add a star player to go along with JI, Fultz, WCJ, Mo, and Okeke, that's not a bad place to start when your cap situation looks a whole lot better.

I think we're in a much better spot today then where we were a month ago.

[ogmagicfan]

Thats why i wrote my sig below. Rebuild sounds like fun, until you have to root to lose 10 in a row.

To be honest, I'm enjoying this way more than the last two years. The games haven't been pretty but there are games within games (player development) but even more important, rooting for other teams to win/lose. I've been watching the teams below us and above us a ton more now that we've committed to the draft. It has been awesome so far.

Obviously, the ultimate goal is to grab your superstar and start winning but I can enjoy the journey. I know that most people can't and that's their problem.

I don't get where's "developing " part if you are being steamrolled by team that is fighting to win 50% of games?
I really really don't belive anybody is gaining anything from just existing on the floor for 20-25 min, hoisting 5-14 shots a night and playing without any structure or purpose. And that's pretty much Magic- post trade deadline.

After a trade our offensive rating is 102 ( 29th, second to OKC and their G league roster) and 117,9 defensive rating ( 28th, behind again G league OKC and Houston). Our net rating is epic -15,6. True shooting percentage of team as a whole is 50,8% (last).

They don't even cover some basic fundamentals, rebounding percentage makes Magic 5th worst team, assist percentage 3rd worst, assist to turnover ratio 5th worst.

There is really no saving grace about this other than trying to convice yourself that guy putting up some stats, while game is competitive in first 18 min- has any lasting impact on outcome of rest of his career. I highly doubt ( and there is plenty of evidence ) that it has non.

I really don't get what Cole Anthony can get from running non existing offense , around non existing talent, trying to set plays , for players who can't even execute most basic pick&roll action nor swing ball to open shooter. In 4 games he played, Magic were outscored by 68 points while he was in game.
RJ Hampton spent 170 min on the floor, during his existence, Magic were outscored by 99 points. Witch means, during his 18-20ish min per game, Magic tend to be outscored by 13 points at average.


Game threads after a trade had 30 pages during a game, just 2 weeks later, last game had 7 pages after a game. It's simply unwatchable. I said after a trade that i won't be watching any games if i have anything better to do. I just don't see any reason to watch modern day Mo Harkless and Andrew Nicholson. Most of those guys simply won't be anything but bench warmers or out of nba in 3 years. Magic future good roster will probably involve zero current Magic players. That's just reality.

Yeah because our team outlook & the game threads were poppin off before we made the trade/s

Seriously, what do you expect. This is a REBUILD. You love being negative for negative sake. No bull**** we’re gonna be bad. Nobody thought otherwise genius.

[SOUL]

Read on Twitter

[thelead]

Read on Twitter

Straight up embarrassing

[basketballRob]

If this is our second worst defensive rating, I think the Johnny Davis year that we got the Dwight pick was the highest.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[PrimeThyme]

Thats why i wrote my sig below. Rebuild sounds like fun, until you have to root to lose 10 in a row.

I think your sig needs context though && that context is we were just as miserable with those 3 as we will be If this rebuild fails too. Vuc, AG, && Fournier are what a failed rebuild looks like. There is always excitement to a new one because the possibility of lottery luck and drafting a superstar is still there.

The last 8 years is what it looks like when you don't get that luck. There is something north of a 50% chance that this rebuild fails too, depending on how the draft goes over the next few years, so I don't think your prediction is really that bold. This is the reality for small market teams who aren't free-agent destinations. You have to get stars in the draft, && the best way to do that is by giving yourself the best shot at a top 3 pick

We've got to come out of this with a top 20 player this time around. It will still have been the right move even if we don't though.

[Bensational]

Thats why i wrote my sig below. Rebuild sounds like fun, until you have to root to lose 10 in a row.

To be honest, I'm enjoying this way more than the last two years. The games haven't been pretty but there are games within games (player development) but even more important, rooting for other teams to win/lose. I've been watching the teams below us and above us a ton more now that we've committed to the draft. It has been awesome so far.

Obviously, the ultimate goal is to grab your superstar and start winning but I can enjoy the journey. I know that most people can't and that's their problem.

I don't get where's "developing " part if you are being steamrolled by team that is fighting to win 50% of games?
I really really don't belive anybody is gaining anything from just existing on the floor for 20-25 min, hoisting 5-14 shots a night and playing without any structure or purpose. And that's pretty much Magic- post trade deadline.

After a trade our offensive rating is 102 ( 29th, second to OKC and their G league roster) and 117,9 defensive rating ( 28th, behind again G league OKC and Houston). Our net rating is epic -15,6. True shooting percentage of team as a whole is 50,8% (last).

They don't even cover some basic fundamentals, rebounding percentage makes Magic 5th worst team, assist percentage 3rd worst, assist to turnover ratio 5th worst.

There is really no saving grace about this other than trying to convice yourself that guy putting up some stats, while game is competitive in first 18 min- has any lasting impact on outcome of rest of his career. I highly doubt ( and there is plenty of evidence ) that it has non.

I really don't get what Cole Anthony can get from running non existing offense , around non existing talent, trying to set plays , for players who can't even execute most basic pick&roll action nor swing ball to open shooter. In 4 games he played, Magic were outscored by 68 points while he was in game.
RJ Hampton spent 170 min on the floor, during his existence, Magic were outscored by 99 points. Witch means, during his 18-20ish min per game, Magic tend to be outscored by 13 points at average.


Game threads after a trade had 30 pages during a game, just 2 weeks later, last game had 7 pages after a game. It's simply unwatchable. I said after a trade that i won't be watching any games if i have anything better to do. I just don't see any reason to watch modern day Mo Harkless and Andrew Nicholson. Most of those guys simply won't be anything but bench warmers or out of nba in 3 years. Magic future good roster will probably involve zero current Magic players. That's just reality.

Same thing could be said for any of the rosters we've fielded the previous two seasons. Sub .500 records at the Allstar break, late season rallies against tanking and resting teams to secure a playoff spot only to get blown out of the water. There was no developing going on there, we had a 4 foot ceiling and were wondering if a chandelier might make things feel different. So I don't see how this new direction is any less satisfying.

We're in the business of finding talent now, and have the chance to finally commit to expending all resources on finding a proper franchise player first and foremost. I understand why this chapter of the Magic might be less interesting to you as you have different sentiments towards development than many others. I was actually hoping to see 'Pepe the scout' come out, and see you apply your keen eye to trying to unearth the next big thing that we might be able to acquire, but I guess that's not of as much interest to you?

Though, that doesn't apply to watching Magic games. I don't blame people if they're off put by the substandard play. Personally, I enjoy looking to see the subtle evolutions in their games over time as players settle into roles. Hopefully Cliff can find a way to keep some order on the court and not let it become cannibalistic, selfish basketball.

[basketballRob]

It's actually more exciting now for me, because nearly every game affects us. I've probably watched more basketball in the last two weeks than I ever had. That includes March madness.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[pepe1991]

To be honest, I'm enjoying this way more than the last two years. The games haven't been pretty but there are games within games (player development) but even more important, rooting for other teams to win/lose. I've been watching the teams below us and above us a ton more now that we've committed to the draft. It has been awesome so far.

Obviously, the ultimate goal is to grab your superstar and start winning but I can enjoy the journey. I know that most people can't and that's their problem.

I don't get where's "developing " part if you are being steamrolled by team that is fighting to win 50% of games?
I really really don't belive anybody is gaining anything from just existing on the floor for 20-25 min, hoisting 5-14 shots a night and playing without any structure or purpose. And that's pretty much Magic- post trade deadline.

After a trade our offensive rating is 102 ( 29th, second to OKC and their G league roster) and 117,9 defensive rating ( 28th, behind again G league OKC and Houston). Our net rating is epic -15,6. True shooting percentage of team as a whole is 50,8% (last).

They don't even cover some basic fundamentals, rebounding percentage makes Magic 5th worst team, assist percentage 3rd worst, assist to turnover ratio 5th worst.

There is really no saving grace about this other than trying to convice yourself that guy putting up some stats, while game is competitive in first 18 min- has any lasting impact on outcome of rest of his career. I highly doubt ( and there is plenty of evidence ) that it has non.

I really don't get what Cole Anthony can get from running non existing offense , around non existing talent, trying to set plays , for players who can't even execute most basic pick&roll action nor swing ball to open shooter. In 4 games he played, Magic were outscored by 68 points while he was in game.
RJ Hampton spent 170 min on the floor, during his existence, Magic were outscored by 99 points. Witch means, during his 18-20ish min per game, Magic tend to be outscored by 13 points at average.


Game threads after a trade had 30 pages during a game, just 2 weeks later, last game had 7 pages after a game. It's simply unwatchable. I said after a trade that i won't be watching any games if i have anything better to do. I just don't see any reason to watch modern day Mo Harkless and Andrew Nicholson. Most of those guys simply won't be anything but bench warmers or out of nba in 3 years. Magic future good roster will probably involve zero current Magic players. That's just reality.

Same thing could be said for any of the rosters we've fielded the previous two seasons. Sub .500 records at the Allstar break, late season rallies against tanking and resting teams to secure a playoff spot only to get blown out of the water. There was no developing going on there, we had a 4 foot ceiling and were wondering if a chandelier might make things feel different. So I don't see how this new direction is any less satisfying.

We're in the business of finding talent now, and have the chance to finally commit to expending all resources on finding a proper franchise player first and foremost. I understand why this chapter of the Magic might be less interesting to you as you have different sentiments towards development than many others. I was actually hoping to see 'Pepe the scout' come out, and see you apply your keen eye to trying to unearth the next big thing that we might be able to acquire, but I guess that's not of as much interest to you?

Though, that doesn't apply to watching Magic games. I don't blame people if they're off put by the substandard play. Personally, I enjoy looking to see the subtle evolutions in their games over time as players settle into roles. Hopefully Cliff can find a way to keep some order on the court and not let it become cannibalistic, selfish basketball.

Ehh, that's same system that gave Fultz chance to not look like complete bum and hide his shortcommings.
it's same system that helped Isaac look like very good player, despite being fairly limited.
Basically both of them got fat exstensions because team gave them purpose.

So it wasn't all for nothing. Granted, there was very low chance at getting superstar young player, but developing makes more sense under structrue of team that has competitive nature. It's almost guaranteed that Isaac and Fultz will return into this environment and flat out drawn into mediocrity and talentlessness of players around them, especially if half of those youngsters will be shotjacking every time they touch a ball.


As for me looking for talent on this team. I always liked Wendell, but somebody needs to slap him in face few time, tell him to trim down weight to 245 and forgets about PF.

Hampton has body to be very good guard, 6'4 athletic , potentially strong frame. But he needs to learn fundamentals of basketball. Also not flexing while down by 35 will be good start.

As far as outsiders that Magic could get , not counting on draft, maybe Jaxon Hayes could be very cheap pickup, he went from productive rookie year to being bench warmer.
Maybe some workable trade around Bamba and Bulls pick for Jarret Allen would give us long term C fix.

But what i really want to do is to experiment with Isaac at C. If that's some workable scenario ( and i really can't find any counter argument for playing 6'11 defensive anchor at C ) than i would not mind some buy low on Bagley.
Miles Bridges seems to be underused in Hornets, they have no center. He is maybe too similar to Gordon, but agian, i want to play Isaac at C so it's not big deal.

Luke Kennard - Ross swap would make some sense to me for both parties. Luke would be huge upgrade over everything we have at SG spot and much needed floor spacer.



As for draft, by far biggest outside wildcard for star player, in my eyes is Josh Christopher. I belive that if he went to G league instad of nba, he would be ranked in most mocks as top 8 player. Now he is not even projected to be lottery pick. Same guy who was 5 star reqruit and who destoyed highschool hoops. It's kind a hilarious that guy is being penalized for averaging 14 ppg on 30,5% for 3 ( 53% TS) on 6'5 -215 pounds, super athletic frame, yet guys ranked above him are all: worst athletes and most of them are actaully way worst shooters ( or at least projected shooters).
I think if Magic have 10 pick, it would be foolish not take a swing on him.

[Message Boar]

Read on Twitter

Straight up embarrassing

Oh no lol....

Even if you start out not knowing how Drating works, how do you not use logic to deduct that if you're 17-37 (.315 winning percentage), the team is probably not setting any positive franchise records, like, at all.

[Bensational]

But what i really want to do is to experiment with Isaac at C. If that's some workable scenario ( and i really can't find any counter argument for playing 6'11 defensive anchor at C )

Me too. I’ve wanted to go this way for a while. I’ve got the idea that if he bulks up a bit and slows his play down a bit he can save a great deal of injury potential but still anchor the paint. But I don’t know sports medicine so no idea.

Okeke is the only other player I’m locked in on keeping, just because I value his style of play. It’s not a ceiling call, just a well balanced roster call.

Like you said, I don’t think the future of this team is currently on the roster but some pieces might be. The draft, trades and free agency is going to be where we find that guy.

[KillMonger]

i just don't understand the appeal of wanting your best perimeter defender to be stuck in the paint....I could only stomach JI at center maybe in certain lineups but never full time

[Message Boar]

A semi-quick OT aside:

I'm listening to the The Mismatch podcast right now, and the hosts are telling about how they've gotten their second covid-vaccination recently; basically boasting and joking about it, really. Now, I'm estimating Kevin O'Connor to be in his 30's and Vernon to be maybe in his early 40's (?).

At the same time here in Holland, my mom and dad are almost 70 years old, and they don't even have a date for a first vaccination yet (I think they're still working on people who are 70 and above for now, and of course health care workers and people in similar professions are vaccinated). My father is... not well, and has a hard time adhering to the measures against the virus. I'm very concerned about their health going forward, so I'm pretty much furious with the incompetent Dutch government right now. I'm not really jealous or anything (okay, maybe a little jealous); it's good that things seem to be going better elsewhere. I get that the US has probably leveraged their financial and political power to get more vaccines quickly and that's fine, but I thought we were supposed to at least be a developed country. Sadly the vaccination rate here is a total clown show, also when you compare it to for example the United Kingdom.

I am curious though, so my question is: How are vaccinations in the US organized and how can it be that people in their 30's are fully vaccinated already? Are well-off people paying for vaccines? I'd rather hear it from normal people than some media article and you guys are the Americans I can reach with the most ease.

Please send any answers/insights you may have to me via PM as to not derail the thread. I did not want to make a separate thread about this on a basketball board, but I'm really in need of some answers right about now.