Stephen Curry has been totally exposed

[floppymoose]

This thread:

[WarriorGM]

do you have a point you're tryna make or just saying random things just to fill the air

Harden lead those Rockets to a 3rd seed with a G league roster in 2017.

Chris Paul lead a OkC team to the 5th seed

Dame was hovering around the 4th-6th seed this season with a injured depleted team

We know the story with Lebron already. Curry has lead the Warriors to 10th place, possibly 8th seed if he didn’t get injured. He’s having a great season yes but not the floor raiser like the guys I mentioned above.

Trevor Ariza, Eric Gordon, Ryan Anderson, Patrick Beverly, and Clint Capella are now G leaders?

You forgot to add Lou Williams and Montrezl Harrell.

[dhsilv2]

Harden lead those Rockets to a 3rd seed with a G league roster in 2017.

Chris Paul lead a OkC team to the 5th seed

Dame was hovering around the 4th-6th seed this season with a injured depleted team

We know the story with Lebron already. Curry has lead the Warriors to 10th place, possibly 8th seed if he didn’t get injured. He’s having a great season yes but not the floor raiser like the guys I mentioned above.

Trevor Ariza, Eric Gordon, Ryan Anderson, Patrick Beverly, and Clint Capella are now G leaders?

You forgot to add Lou Williams and Montrezl Harrell.

nah, I lost the energy to write more in response to such a stupid comment.

[CptCrunch]

That's because Curry isn't an floor raiser. Harden is the greatest floor raiser in modern history if we forget LeBron exists.

Curry simply doesn't elevate his team.

i don't think you understand what RPM is.

I was just about to write this same reply.

What a model does in theory has little to do with it does in practice.

Check the correlation between team level RPM and RPM with win-lose record, then get back to me.

Pure RAPM in theory has the properties you think you understand. ESPN's layer of heavily weighted box-score based priors further confounds the intended purpose of RAPM.

[clyde21]

i don't think you understand what RPM is.

I was just about to write this same reply.

What a model does in theory has little to do with it does in practice.

Check the correlation between team level RPM and RPM with win-lose record, then get back to me.

Pure RAPM in theory has the properties you think you understand. ESPN's layer of heavily weighted box-score based priors further confounds the intended purpose of RAPM.

RAPM says the same exact thing for Steph, and it's reinforced even more when you look at 3-yr and 5-yr sample sizes

but really, your original point had nothing to do with anything...you think Harden had more players in the top45 RPM because he carried them there? that's not how it works.

[dhsilv2]

i don't think you understand what RPM is.

I was just about to write this same reply.

What a model does in theory has little to do with it does in practice.

Check the correlation between team level RPM and RPM with win-lose record, then get back to me.

Pure RAPM in theory has the properties you think you understand. ESPN's layer of heavily weighted box-score based priors further confounds the intended purpose of RAPM.

RAPM isn't all that good either for the others on the warriors. Dray does well, 30th. Bazemore is 28th. Looney 149. Wanamaker 198. And we're all down hill from here. Curry however is coming in at 21 which seems crazy but whatever.

[510TWSS]

Imagine still tryna justify such a silly take.

Imagine

[Johnny Bball]

Read on Twitter

[Rodwilliams]

do you have a point you're tryna make or just saying random things just to fill the air

Harden lead those Rockets to a 3rd seed with a G league roster in 2017.

Chris Paul lead a OkC team to the 5th seed

Dame was hovering around the 4th-6th seed this season with a injured depleted team

We know the story with Lebron already. Curry has lead the Warriors to 10th place, possibly 8th seed if he didn’t get injured. He’s having a great season yes but not the floor raiser like the guys I mentioned above.

Trevor Ariza, Eric Gordon, Ryan Anderson, Patrick Beverly, and Clint Capella are now G leaders?

I find it very laughable that you mentioned those guys and then tried to sound sophisticated after mentioning them.

Trevor Ariza was an old man and not as good as he was before
Patrick Beverly offense is bad limited
Capela is trash offensively

Not G league but on the cusp of it. I’ll give you Eric Gordon but he comes off the bench.

I want you to tell me who the 2nd best offense player in that staring lineup is. You don’t know right? Guess what, me either. There is no way that Rockets team should’ve been in 2nd-3rd place that year. Harrell was a pup at that time and was not thought of at that time. Can’t believe you even mentioned him.


You can’t tell me that Rockets roster should’ve been in 2nd-3rd place that year. That team was more like 10th-11th seed in the West that Harden carried to 2nd-3rd.

[MindState]

Top 10 all-time player. Enjoy it while you can.

[Rodwilliams]

do you have a point you're tryna make or just saying random things just to fill the air

Harden lead those Rockets to a 3rd seed with a G league roster in 2017.

Chris Paul lead a OkC team to the 5th seed

Dame was hovering around the 4th-6th seed this season with a injured depleted team

We know the story with Lebron already. Curry has lead the Warriors to 10th place, possibly 8th seed if he didn’t get injured. He’s having a great season yes but not the floor raiser like the guys I mentioned above.

A G League roster lol. Again, just patently wrong here man. That team was well balanced and well constructed with great shooters and a good inside/out game: Healthy/prime Eric Gordon and Ryan Anderson, Ariza, Pat Bev, Clint Capela, Lou Williams later on, etc. The shooting alone makes a world of difference between these rosters, and it bears out in the numbers. 1/3rd of the time Harden was not on the floor, and they outscored opponents by +3.7 in those minutes (those are the numbers of an ELITE role-playing cast. Literally better +/- than any cast Curry has had with him off the floor, including the years KD was there lol). They had 4 players outside of Harden with a BPM of 1.0 or higher. The Warriors have 0 players outside of Curry that could hold that distinction (they literally have ONE player who is not a negative BPM and it's Draymond at 0.8). These two casts are nothing alike. Once again, the only cast Harden had that was somewhat comparable in its ineptitude (and still a ways away) was in 2015, and Harden - despite playing every game - could not lead them to over .500.

The Blazers this season are a -4.5 with Lillard off the court (the Warriors again a -8.0), and a +1.5 with him on (the Warriors are better at +2.1 with Curry on).

CP3 is a better example but he had a better cast as well. They had a great D and 3 players in Shai-Gilgeous, Schroeder and Gallinari who outscored him along with Steven Adams gobbling up all the offensive rebounds and getting it out to their talented perimeter players.

Bottom line, none of these guys including LBJ have had net differentials the likes of Curry on the pre-KD Warriors. He is the ultimate weapon in taking a good team to be legendary, but he's also among the best floor raisers the game has seen. RPM accounts for your teammates and opponents when adjusting for differential, and these are Curry's ranks in the past decade starting from 2010/11: 27, N/A, 26, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, N/A, 2. There's a reason why after KD went down mid-game/series (in a tied series) against Houston he was immediately able to level up and lead them to blow by Harden/CP3 and sweep Dame/CJ in the Western Conference Finals. He's always been their best player. Two MVP's (only unanimous), 5 Finals and 3 ships in that time. Recognize greatness when it's slapping you across the face.

Unfortunately, some casts simply can't be carried to great heights, especially when they go 1-7 by an average of 15 point losses when Curry misses a small stretch of the season.

Yea it was the 2015 roster. Keep in mind that Harden did carry them to the conference finals which was unexpected. Not going to dispute your RPM argument cause you do have some points there. Appreciate you breaking that down.

I will say that Harden assists numbers are always much higher than his so that should account for scoring too, creating opportunities for your teammates.

Another thing it’s not a huge difference between the Blazers and Warriors based on the numbers you posted.

[BoatsNZones]

Harden lead those Rockets to a 3rd seed with a G league roster in 2017.

Chris Paul lead a OkC team to the 5th seed

Dame was hovering around the 4th-6th seed this season with a injured depleted team

We know the story with Lebron already. Curry has lead the Warriors to 10th place, possibly 8th seed if he didn’t get injured. He’s having a great season yes but not the floor raiser like the guys I mentioned above.

A G League roster lol. Again, just patently wrong here man. That team was well balanced and well constructed with great shooters and a good inside/out game: Healthy/prime Eric Gordon and Ryan Anderson, Ariza, Pat Bev, Clint Capela, Lou Williams later on, etc. The shooting alone makes a world of difference between these rosters, and it bears out in the numbers. 1/3rd of the time Harden was not on the floor, and they outscored opponents by +3.7 in those minutes (those are the numbers of an ELITE role-playing cast. Literally better +/- than any cast Curry has had with him off the floor, including the years KD was there lol). They had 4 players outside of Harden with a BPM of 1.0 or higher. The Warriors have 0 players outside of Curry that could hold that distinction (they literally have ONE player who is not a negative BPM and it's Draymond at 0.8). These two casts are nothing alike. Once again, the only cast Harden had that was somewhat comparable in its ineptitude (and still a ways away) was in 2015, and Harden - despite playing every game - could not lead them to over .500.

The Blazers this season are a -4.5 with Lillard off the court (the Warriors again a -8.0), and a +1.5 with him on (the Warriors are better at +2.1 with Curry on).

CP3 is a better example but he had a better cast as well. They had a great D and 3 players in Shai-Gilgeous, Schroeder and Gallinari who outscored him along with Steven Adams gobbling up all the offensive rebounds and getting it out to their talented perimeter players.

Bottom line, none of these guys including LBJ have had net differentials the likes of Curry on the pre-KD Warriors. He is the ultimate weapon in taking a good team to be legendary, but he's also among the best floor raisers the game has seen. RPM accounts for your teammates and opponents when adjusting for differential, and these are Curry's ranks in the past decade starting from 2010/11: 27, N/A, 26, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, N/A, 2. There's a reason why after KD went down mid-game/series (in a tied series) against Houston he was immediately able to level up and lead them to blow by Harden/CP3 and sweep Dame/CJ in the Western Conference Finals. He's always been their best player. Two MVP's (only unanimous), 5 Finals and 3 ships in that time. Recognize greatness when it's slapping you across the face.

Unfortunately, some casts simply can't be carried to great heights, especially when they go 1-7 by an average of 15 point losses when Curry misses a small stretch of the season.

Yea it was the 2015 roster. Keep in mind that Harden did carry them to the conference finals which was unexpected. Not going to dispute your RPM argument cause you do have some points there. Appreciate you breaking that down.

I will say that Harden assists numbers are always much higher than his so that should account for scoring too, creating opportunities for your teammates.

Another thing it’s not a huge difference between the Blazers and Warriors based on the numbers you posted.

2015 was young Klay/Draymond with year 1 MVP Curry. Do you remember what happened in the Western Conference Finals? They faced the Warriors and Curry ripped them apart in a 5 game series (Klay sucked and Draymond was worthless on offense but it didn't matter. Curry ended in it 5 with >30/5/5 on >68% TS). He's owned Harden and Lillard as long as they've been in the league. KD and Westbrook as well. Traded blows with peak Lebron as his teams only superstar. Those are the facts.

[Lalouie]

steph has proven shooting is 90% of basketball

[BoatsNZones]

steph has proven shooting is 90% of basketball

If that were true Kyle Korver, JJ Reddick and Duncan Robinson would be superstars, or at least All Stars. Steph has proven that his GOAT shooting masks his talent all over the floor.

It's wild that a player this historically great with as many personal and team accomplishments as he has is still this underrated, but here we are.

[The_Hater]

Harden lead those Rockets to a 3rd seed with a G league roster in 2017.

Chris Paul lead a OkC team to the 5th seed

Dame was hovering around the 4th-6th seed this season with a injured depleted team

We know the story with Lebron already. Curry has lead the Warriors to 10th place, possibly 8th seed if he didn’t get injured. He’s having a great season yes but not the floor raiser like the guys I mentioned above.

Trevor Ariza, Eric Gordon, Ryan Anderson, Patrick Beverly, and Clint Capella are now G leaders?

I find it very laughable that you mentioned those guys and then tried to sound sophisticated after mentioning them.

Trevor Ariza was an old man and not as good as he was before
Patrick Beverly offense is bad limited
Capela is trash offensively

Not G league but on the cusp of it. I’ll give you Eric Gordon but he comes off the bench.

I want you to tell me who the 2nd best offense player in that staring lineup is. You don’t know right? Guess what, me either. There is no way that Rockets team should’ve been in 2nd-3rd place that year. Harrell was a pup at that time and was not thought of at that time. Can’t believe you even mentioned him.


You can’t tell me that Rockets roster should’ve been in 2nd-3rd place that year. That team was more like 10th-11th seed in the West that Harden carried to 2nd-3rd.

You don’t have a clue when to give up the fight do you?

I guess being sophisticated in your world means thinking that the league has about 5-6 stars and everyone else gets thrown into the ‘scrub’ barrel.

[dhsilv2]

Harden lead those Rockets to a 3rd seed with a G league roster in 2017.

Chris Paul lead a OkC team to the 5th seed

Dame was hovering around the 4th-6th seed this season with a injured depleted team

We know the story with Lebron already. Curry has lead the Warriors to 10th place, possibly 8th seed if he didn’t get injured. He’s having a great season yes but not the floor raiser like the guys I mentioned above.

Trevor Ariza, Eric Gordon, Ryan Anderson, Patrick Beverly, and Clint Capella are now G leaders?

I find it very laughable that you mentioned those guys and then tried to sound sophisticated after mentioning them.

Trevor Ariza was an old man and not as good as he was before
Patrick Beverly offense is bad limited
Capela is trash offensively

Not G league but on the cusp of it. I’ll give you Eric Gordon but he comes off the bench.

I want you to tell me who the 2nd best offense player in that staring lineup is. You don’t know right? Guess what, me either. There is no way that Rockets team should’ve been in 2nd-3rd place that year. Harrell was a pup at that time and was not thought of at that time. Can’t believe you even mentioned him.


You can’t tell me that Rockets roster should’ve been in 2nd-3rd place that year. That team was more like 10th-11th seed in the West that Harden carried to 2nd-3rd.

So you admit your comment was idiotic and not based on reality? You think a guy STILL in the nba and has started nearly every game he's played since was old at 31. You can only speak to offense which is half the game. Yeah we get it, you were wrong and your list of legit quality nba players were not G league level.

Also even better was the cute attempt to ignore a guy who didn't start despite being 3rd in minutes played (the only thing that matters). Just take your L and move on.

[dhsilv2]

Harden lead those Rockets to a 3rd seed with a G league roster in 2017.

Chris Paul lead a OkC team to the 5th seed

Dame was hovering around the 4th-6th seed this season with a injured depleted team

We know the story with Lebron already. Curry has lead the Warriors to 10th place, possibly 8th seed if he didn’t get injured. He’s having a great season yes but not the floor raiser like the guys I mentioned above.

A G League roster lol. Again, just patently wrong here man. That team was well balanced and well constructed with great shooters and a good inside/out game: Healthy/prime Eric Gordon and Ryan Anderson, Ariza, Pat Bev, Clint Capela, Lou Williams later on, etc. The shooting alone makes a world of difference between these rosters, and it bears out in the numbers. 1/3rd of the time Harden was not on the floor, and they outscored opponents by +3.7 in those minutes (those are the numbers of an ELITE role-playing cast. Literally better +/- than any cast Curry has had with him off the floor, including the years KD was there lol). They had 4 players outside of Harden with a BPM of 1.0 or higher. The Warriors have 0 players outside of Curry that could hold that distinction (they literally have ONE player who is not a negative BPM and it's Draymond at 0.8). These two casts are nothing alike. Once again, the only cast Harden had that was somewhat comparable in its ineptitude (and still a ways away) was in 2015, and Harden - despite playing every game - could not lead them to over .500.

The Blazers this season are a -4.5 with Lillard off the court (the Warriors again a -8.0), and a +1.5 with him on (the Warriors are better at +2.1 with Curry on).

CP3 is a better example but he had a better cast as well. They had a great D and 3 players in Shai-Gilgeous, Schroeder and Gallinari who outscored him along with Steven Adams gobbling up all the offensive rebounds and getting it out to their talented perimeter players.

Bottom line, none of these guys including LBJ have had net differentials the likes of Curry on the pre-KD Warriors. He is the ultimate weapon in taking a good team to be legendary, but he's also among the best floor raisers the game has seen. RPM accounts for your teammates and opponents when adjusting for differential, and these are Curry's ranks in the past decade starting from 2010/11: 27, N/A, 26, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, N/A, 2. There's a reason why after KD went down mid-game/series (in a tied series) against Houston he was immediately able to level up and lead them to blow by Harden/CP3 and sweep Dame/CJ in the Western Conference Finals. He's always been their best player. Two MVP's (only unanimous), 5 Finals and 3 ships in that time. Recognize greatness when it's slapping you across the face.

Unfortunately, some casts simply can't be carried to great heights, especially when they go 1-7 by an average of 15 point losses when Curry misses a small stretch of the season.

Yea it was the 2015 roster. Keep in mind that Harden did carry them to the conference finals which was unexpected. Not going to dispute your RPM argument cause you do have some points there. Appreciate you breaking that down.

I will say that Harden assists numbers are always much higher than his so that should account for scoring too, creating opportunities for your teammates.

Another thing it’s not a huge difference between the Blazers and Warriors based on the numbers you posted.

-4.5 and -8 isn't that big a difference???

As no team is -8 at a quick glance, the difference there is 3.5 points per 100. That's something like the difference in a 20 win nba season (normal seasons) and a 30 win season. A team being already -3.5 is bad but clearly pulling a 30 win team up to a decent payoff team is FAR more realistic than pulling a 20 team to the same level. You're effectively asking one player to be 10 wins better.

[Asianiac_24]

2015 Rockets is way better than this team without Curry.

[SlovenianDragon]

I just realized this thread had 90 pages im just here to post something to keep the grind alive.

Maybe one day ill read all 90 pages but not today. (never)

[floppymoose]

Pure RAPM in theory has the properties you think you understand. ESPN's layer of heavily weighted box-score based priors further confounds the intended purpose of RAPM.

I totally agree. But it doesn't really change the Curry discussion. RAPM supports the claim that Curry has had a great career and is doing very well this season.