Denver Nuggets franchise plan-B

[THE J0KER]

Yesterday's Jamal Murray ACL injury is probably the worst thing that happens to the Nuggets Organization in this century excluding the start of Melo trade saga.

The young team was 2nd seed on stacked West in 2019 and WC finalist in 2020. After Gordon's trade recovering loss of Grant and Murray showing signs of bubble-form comeback, Nuggets seems this springtime stronger than ever with Jokic career-year (MVP?) and MPJ breakthrough, and ready for the next big step.

But now we must be realistic. Without 2nd best player, who is under max contract, chances for a ring are minimal not just now in 2021 but already in 2022 too, a season with a 'normal' schedule with playoff starting in April, so Murray will not be ready to play, or at least not as TOP20 player with full playing time (the star we need to get the title). So, the first next realistic window for the Nuggets maiden ring, or at least the maiden NBA final, will be in 2023. The team's ability to pay or attract good FA will be very limited in 2023 with Jokic most probably signing supermax and Porter's max (or close) contract.

Good thing is that Murray is a young player, it is well known that the younger you suffer ACL injury chances for good recovery are bigger. Look at Spurs Murray, Dejounte, which at 22 miss full season because of ACL, at 23 is already back on the same level as before the injury, and this season, at 24, have a career-best season! Trying to trade Jamal Murray will be a bad idea because a trade value of an ACL injured player under max contract is about half of his value when he is healthy. Maybe Toronto would send some fair offer (Murray is a local star, as already the best ever Canadian player after Nash) and nobody else, so it would turn into something like "Dennis Smith jr for Porzingins" disaster deal, and Denver is not big market team able to send max contract player for nothing and then buy another max-contract star on FA market.

In my opinion, we should be patient until 2023 and be ready when Murray is back. Next season priority should be on establishing Jokic as a permanent MVP contender and NBA TOP5 player from this season, and establish MPJ as a 25-10 (near) all-star player, and make Gordon happy to re-sign. The biggest job for our FO is to find a good two-way guard until 2023, and maybe a better competitive coach than Malone.

[FilNugsFan]

All I can think of right now is to find a suitable SG to replace Barton. Barring injuries, I hope our starting unit for next season would compose of Morris, MPJ, Gordon, Jokic plus that Barton replacement.

Can't believe we now have to resort to Plan B coz of Murray's untimely injury.

[NuggetsWY]

Murray was our starting PG - we have Morris & Campazzo & Barton & Howard all called or used as PGs plus Dozier & Harrison could play some minutes since our "PG" isn't really a "PG" with our point-center.

We can't make trades, so anyone we sign is likely to be a third-string type player - although there are a few like Austin Rivers that just might git in the bench rotation. If we sign someone, my hope is that it is someone that could be a backup for two or three years past this season. We already have enough players that can play at an adequate level but none can play at Murray's level - and we aren't likely to sign anyone at his level.

[The Rebel]

I am not ready to write off this team for the next 2 years because Murray is out.

Whether anybody wants to admit it or not we have arguably the most talented front court in the league. There are not many teams even close to a front court of Jokic, MPJ, and Gordon. We also have good depth with Green, McGee, Millsap, Dozier, Cancar. Nnaji, and Bol.

Murray hurts because our backcourt has been an obvious weakness since we traded Beasley, then Harris's injury issues and subsequent trade, trading RJ, and now Murray out we have no top end talent and limited depth. We can go out and get someone to place hold the rest of this season, but this summer Connelly has to prove his best ability of finding young talent that can fit.

I also think Malone is going to have to change his scheme, instead of depending on dribble hand offs and pick and rolls in different combinations of the 2 man games we need to encourage more off ball movement and more cutting with our guards spotting up more and hustling for offensive rebounds.

This season we will be lucky to get out of the 1st round, but if Connelly can find us a couple of solid options at guard this summer I still think we can contend even if Murray is only 75% as effective when he gets back in a year.

[NuggetsWY]

I am not ready to write off this team for the next 2 years because Murray is out.

Agreed

Whether anybody wants to admit it or not we have arguably the most talented front court in the league. There are not many teams even close to a front court of Jokic, MPJ, and Gordon. We also have good depth with Green, McGee, Millsap, Dozier, Cancar. Nnaji, and Bol.

Agreed

Murray hurts because our backcourt has been an obvious weakness since we traded Beasley, then Harris's injury issues and subsequent trade, trading RJ, and now Murray out we have no top end talent and limited depth. We can go out and get someone to place hold the rest of this season, but this summer Connelly has to prove his best ability of finding young talent that can fit.

Absolutely!

I also think Malone is going to have to change his scheme, instead of depending on dribble hand offs and pick and rolls in different combinations of the 2 man games we need to encourage more off ball movement and more cutting with our guards spotting up more and hustling for offensive rebounds.

Good Luck on Malone changing anything.

This season we will be lucky to get out of the 1st round, but if Connelly can find us a couple of solid options at guard this summer I still think we can contend even if Murray is only 75% as effective when he gets back in a year.

I actually believe we can win a 1st round series (of course depending on where we finish, if we drop too far - maybe not).

[skywalker33]

While the season looks a bit more dismal than before the Murray injury, I'm not ready to write off the season just yet. We did win 3 games without Murray, so we just need to make some adjustments. This will give us a shot for Gordon, Dozier, Campozzo or ?? to step up . Kinda sucks we don't have RJ, would've been interesting to see that development.

[Mickey8]

They should have won the game against Boston if Malone didn't f....d up, tonight we will see how the team will respond, also who will have what role on the court, if Barton starts jacking up all kind of shots , I am ready to give up team's play off hopes. Even with my dislike for Barton as the player, he as well is injury prone player, and imagine if he goes down too this season, this team will be without any scoring threat from PG,SG,SF position. The Nuggets are very thin in depth, too many PF's , and the few small players who can score.

[Richard Miller]

They should have won the game against Boston if Malone didn't f....d up, tonight we will see how the team will respond, also who will have what role on the court, if Barton starts jacking up all kind of shots , I am ready to give up team's play off hopes.

Barton will have to have bigger role for sure (everybody else too pretty much), he's spent the longest time with Jokic and with the team, if sometimes he jacks up a dumb shot so be it.

On a side note, I'm not sure they should play too hard in the remaining games, since passing up the Clippers (they have easy schedule until the end) doesn't seem very likely and sinking lower than 6th also doesn't seem very likely either - the best scenario would probably be staying at 4th and Blazers climbing up to 5th as the Lakers have somewhat tough schedule (double against Jazz and Dallas) before LBJ-AD return.

[skywalker33]

Looks like the Nuggets are looking to sign Austin Rivers, heavy into negotiations.Think this has good potential for the interim, options aren't that plentiful right now.

[slicedbread2]

Damn. It's a real shame what happened to Murray. Malone should've called a timeout the second Murray struggled to get up after getting clipped by Looney. Instead he pushed himself and there goes 2 playoff runs and potentially 2 seasons. I looked at Dejounte Murray who suffered the same injury with the Spurs and he missed an entire year and had to play his 4th year as a getting off the rust type of year and currently he's killing it. He's a year older than Murray.

As far as their plan B, who knows what they can do. They'll probably try and nab Austin Rivers for the year as a stopgap to see how things go. He'd actually be a good pickup as long as he's kept in a scoring role where he's not asked to do too much and I think the Nuggets could be perfect for him.

I know they say that you should never talk about the could've/should've, but I think the Nuggets missed a great opportunity to really add a higher ceiling to the team so that they wouldn't be so heavily reliant on Joker/Murray as we've seen when they're on the bench. Here's what I think they could've done something like this:

1) Usage of the trade exceptions. To me, they missed out on really capitalizing the usage of the Jerami Grant and Juancho TPE valued at 9.5M and 3.32M. To me if they were willing to spend some money on it, they could've

Denver: Troy Brown Jr.(Juancho TPE)
Washington: Vlatko Cancar, future 2nd

Denver: George Hill(Jerami Grant TPE)
OKC: Removal of protections on 23 1st and a future 2nd with pro.

Denver gets a younger guy in Brown by 2 years who can guard both wing spots while clearing the clutter of PF's as Cancar is more of a 4 who can play the 3 somewhat while Washington moves on from Brown and gets a future 2nd while saving money.

OKC sheds a crap ton of salary especially knowing they have been repeat taxpayers the past 4 out of the last 5 years and will be cutting costs until the end of next year while Denver gets a stopgap vet guard who can play the 1/2 and who's salary is highly valuable in the event of consolidating depth for an upgrade.

Instead they let the Juancho TPE expire and had to use a portion of the Grant TPE to eat McGee who was a great get, but realistically all they had to offer was 1 2nd instead of 2 and Cleveland would've taken the deal knowing how depressed the big man market truly is.

2) Missing the boat on adding guard depth. I think they missed out on a great opportunity to nab Lonzo Ball and Terrence Ross. To me, Lonzo would've been the ideal Shaun Livingston type of player this team needs as his length and ability to play and guard both the 1/2 would be problematic for opposing teams plus he's been a much improved shooter. For whatever reason, NOLA didn't give him an extension and it seems as though things have soured. Apparently they were trying to use him as an asset to get out of Bledsoe's contract. I think Denver could've helped out in the following proposal:

Philadelphia: George Hill
Denver: Terrence Ross, Javale McGee, Aaron Gordon, Lonzo Ball
Cleveland: Isaiah Hartenstein, Gary Clark, future 2nd
NOLA: R.J. Hampton, Will Barton(to be flipped to another team), 2 2nds from PHI
Orlando: Gary Harris, Eric Bledsoe, Tony Bradley, Austin Rivers, 2 1sts from DEN plus some 2nds.

Philly took Hill b/c the asking price for Lowry was too much and his salary was a problem. Masai's asking price was too much and this is what caused Morey to back down.

Cleveland cashes in on McGee and adds another 2nd for McGee. They get Clark as filler and Hartenstein can be used as a backup big.

NOLA gets out of Bledsoe's deal as Griffin has shown clear buyer''s remorse over Bledsoe's deal and they could flip Barton to another team say Dallas for more picks if they want as they feel more comfortable going with NAW/Lewis Jr. and Hampton would be a nice get for them. Plus this would help balance their cap sheet as they'd be able to move forward and save 22M off Bledsoe's deal.

Orlando gets an Igoudala style package for eating some bad salary and can commit to a proper rebuild plus Harris and Bledsoe's deals will expire as the latter's last year is only guaranteed for 3.9M while shedding salary in the long run.

Denver loads up big time and gets a good scorer off the bench in Ross who's deal doesn't expire till 23 and has a depreciating cap hit like Gordon. Ball can be the starting 2 guard who shares ball handling duties with Morris when Joker isn't on the floor and McGee brings size plus Gordon has been amazing. They'd be over the luxury tax and would probably have to send out Millsap to Orlando which would've been possible in this trade scenario, but I dunno how the locker room would've felt as things could've gone south. In this scenario at least you don't have to worry about overpaying Barton who's turned 30 and for whatever reason becomes his own worse enemy and takes shots he shouldn't be taking.

Obviously they'd be more likely to be in the luxury tax going forward, but if the injury didn't happen, this could've been their lineup that would've held the fort while allowing Murray to get healthy:

Ball/Morris/Campazzo/Harrison and Howard(both 2-way deals)
Murray/Dozier/Ross
Gordon/Brown Jr./random spot(maybe Rivers as moving Millsap would've allowed them to stay under the tax and add one more player)
Porter Jr./Green/Nnaji
Jokic/McGee/Bol Bol

The obvious concerns would've been Ball's contract going forward as he supposedly wants a lot of money but I think it'd be worth the deal even if his Dad is a loose cannon but I trust the Nuggets brain trust at getting players to take less than they could get elsewhere. Injuries have been a problem for Lonzo, but it'd be worth it as his improved 3pt shot and FT% is a good sign. Then hopefully they'd be able to extend Porter Jr. before next year along with Gordon and I think they'd still have a title window.

Oh well it's fun to dream as they say. The Nuggets won't win a title this year, but I think they'll be back in the hunt before we know it.

[NuggetsWY]

Damn. It's a real shame what happened to Murray. Malone should've called a timeout the second Murray struggled to get up after getting clipped by Looney. Instead he pushed himself and there goes 2 playoff runs and potentially 2 seasons. I looked at Dejounte Murray who suffered the same injury with the Spurs and he missed an entire year and had to play his 4th year as a getting off the rust type of year and currently he's killing it. He's a year older than Murray.

As far as their plan B, who knows what they can do. They'll probably try and nab Austin Rivers for the year as a stopgap to see how things go. He'd actually be a good pickup as long as he's kept in a scoring role where he's not asked to do too much and I think the Nuggets could be perfect for him.

I know they say that you should never talk about the could've/should've, but I think the Nuggets missed a great opportunity to really add a higher ceiling to the team so that they wouldn't be so heavily reliant on Joker/Murray as we've seen when they're on the bench. Here's what I think they could've done something like this:

1) Usage of the trade exceptions. To me, they missed out on really capitalizing the usage of the Jerami Grant and Juancho TPE valued at 9.5M and 3.32M. To me if they were willing to spend some money on it, they could've

Denver: Troy Brown Jr.(Juancho TPE)
Washington: Vlatko Cancar, future 2nd

Denver: George Hill(Jerami Grant TPE)
OKC: Removal of protections on 23 1st and a future 2nd with pro.

Denver gets a younger guy in Brown by 2 years who can guard both wing spots while clearing the clutter of PF's as Cancar is more of a 4 who can play the 3 somewhat while Washington moves on from Brown and gets a future 2nd while saving money.

OKC sheds a crap ton of salary especially knowing they have been repeat taxpayers the past 4 out of the last 5 years and will be cutting costs until the end of next year while Denver gets a stopgap vet guard who can play the 1/2 and who's salary is highly valuable in the event of consolidating depth for an upgrade.

Instead they let the Juancho TPE expire and had to use a portion of the Grant TPE to eat McGee who was a great get, but realistically all they had to offer was 1 2nd instead of 2 and Cleveland would've taken the deal knowing how depressed the big man market truly is.

2) Missing the boat on adding guard depth. I think they missed out on a great opportunity to nab Lonzo Ball and Terrence Ross. To me, Lonzo would've been the ideal Shaun Livingston type of player this team needs as his length and ability to play and guard both the 1/2 would be problematic for opposing teams plus he's been a much improved shooter. For whatever reason, NOLA didn't give him an extension and it seems as though things have soured. Apparently they were trying to use him as an asset to get out of Bledsoe's contract. I think Denver could've helped out in the following proposal:

Philadelphia: George Hill
Denver: Terrence Ross, Javale McGee, Aaron Gordon, Lonzo Ball
Cleveland: Isaiah Hartenstein, Gary Clark, future 2nd
NOLA: R.J. Hampton, Will Barton(to be flipped to another team), 2 2nds from PHI
Orlando: Gary Harris, Eric Bledsoe, Tony Bradley, Austin Rivers, 2 1sts from DEN plus some 2nds.

Philly took Hill b/c the asking price for Lowry was too much and his salary was a problem. Masai's asking price was too much and this is what caused Morey to back down.

Cleveland cashes in on McGee and adds another 2nd for McGee. They get Clark as filler and Hartenstein can be used as a backup big.

NOLA gets out of Bledsoe's deal as Griffin has shown clear buyer''s remorse over Bledsoe's deal and they could flip Barton to another team say Dallas for more picks if they want as they feel more comfortable going with NAW/Lewis Jr. and Hampton would be a nice get for them. Plus this would help balance their cap sheet as they'd be able to move forward and save 22M off Bledsoe's deal.

Orlando gets an Igoudala style package for eating some bad salary and can commit to a proper rebuild plus Harris and Bledsoe's deals will expire as the latter's last year is only guaranteed for 3.9M while shedding salary in the long run.

Denver loads up big time and gets a good scorer off the bench in Ross who's deal doesn't expire till 23 and has a depreciating cap hit like Gordon. Ball can be the starting 2 guard who shares ball handling duties with Morris when Joker isn't on the floor and McGee brings size plus Gordon has been amazing. They'd be over the luxury tax and would probably have to send out Millsap to Orlando which would've been possible in this trade scenario, but I dunno how the locker room would've felt as things could've gone south. In this scenario at least you don't have to worry about overpaying Barton who's turned 30 and for whatever reason becomes his own worse enemy and takes shots he shouldn't be taking.

Obviously they'd be more likely to be in the luxury tax going forward, but if the injury didn't happen, this could've been their lineup that would've held the fort while allowing Murray to get healthy:

Ball/Morris/Campazzo/Harrison and Howard(both 2-way deals)
Murray/Dozier/Ross
Gordon/Brown Jr./random spot(maybe Rivers as moving Millsap would've allowed them to stay under the tax and add one more player)
Porter Jr./Green/Nnaji
Jokic/McGee/Bol Bol

The obvious concerns would've been Ball's contract going forward as he supposedly wants a lot of money but I think it'd be worth the deal even if his Dad is a loose cannon but I trust the Nuggets brain trust at getting players to take less than they could get elsewhere. Injuries have been a problem for Lonzo, but it'd be worth it as his improved 3pt shot and FT% is a good sign. Then hopefully they'd be able to extend Porter Jr. before next year along with Gordon and I think they'd still have a title window.

Oh well it's fun to dream as they say. The Nuggets won't win a title this year, but I think they'll be back in the hunt before we know it.

Lots of good stuff in this thread; please don't forget to come back.

Murray doesn't typically like taking time off. A non-contact knee injury just can't be avoided - take it from someone who has ripped both knees two times each.

Personally I like adding Rivers to our roster, although it wasn't discussed much this year. He brings an intensity that is hopefully contagious. As for other changes during this past off-season and trade-deadline; the Nuggets believed they were going to re-sign Grant and did not learn he was signing elsewhere until there was nothing they could do, or so they have indicated. This team has been built mostly with draft picks or trades at draft time. They have a history of letting TPEs expire (not all, but many). They have shown little inclination to make the types of trades you have suggested and many on this board have suggested similar trades.

You alluded to the problem with most of those trades we love to dream about: long-term contract issues. So far the Nuggets have managed that fairly well but problems are on the horizon in that area. Without a doubt, our owner can afford to spend tax money but he shows no inclination to do so - unless the team is a legitimate championship contender or at least a WCF favorite.

They have their core of Jokic, Murray, Porter and have looked at many others. I surely do hope Morris is a long-term bench or even starter. He's got a great attitude for being a 4th, 5th or 6th option and his skill set fits nicely. Gordon is looking like a nice fit as a starter and Nnaji just might fight Gordon for serious playing time next year. That's a fairly solid six players and about the only thing that just might stop them appears to be a major injury - OOPS!

Sure, Murray's injury hurts but we need to just consider it as a time to build the rest of the team. When Murray is ready to come back his now 24 year old body will certainly be ready to step right in to what could be a seriously dangerous team even without him (eventually).

[Richard Miller]

2) Missing the boat on adding guard depth. I think they missed out on a great opportunity to nab Lonzo Ball and Terrence Ross. To me, Lonzo would've been the ideal Shaun Livingston type of player this team needs as his length and ability to play and guard both the 1/2 would be problematic for opposing teams plus he's been a much improved shooter. For whatever reason, NOLA didn't give him an extension and it seems as though things have soured. Apparently they were trying to use him as an asset to get out of Bledsoe's contract. I think Denver could've helped out in the following proposal:

That's just fanfic though. By all accounts Orlando really wanted RJ and there would've been no deal otherwise.

[slicedbread2]

2) Missing the boat on adding guard depth. I think they missed out on a great opportunity to nab Lonzo Ball and Terrence Ross. To me, Lonzo would've been the ideal Shaun Livingston type of player this team needs as his length and ability to play and guard both the 1/2 would be problematic for opposing teams plus he's been a much improved shooter. For whatever reason, NOLA didn't give him an extension and it seems as though things have soured. Apparently they were trying to use him as an asset to get out of Bledsoe's contract. I think Denver could've helped out in the following proposal:

That's just fanfic though. By all accounts Orlando really wanted RJ and there would've been no deal otherwise.

That's a good point. R.J. is a really interesting prospect and there was no way he was gonna get playing time in Denver behind Murray, Morris and Campazzo. It was a painful move that had to be made but Gordon has been fantastic so it's been worth it.

If the Nuggets really were gonna push for it, I think based on the reports coming out in NOLA that basically Griffin is willing to move on from Ball if the price is too high and apparently is more interested in Lewis Jr./NAW and was trying to use him as an asset to dump Bledsoe who has been killing the Pelicans with his low IQ plays. There's a reason the Bucks dumped 3 1sts+2 swaps. Dude shot 24% from 3 in the past 2 playoffs and was killing the Bucks. I seriously ask myself if they were gonna give up a 1st to Denver and Denver sends their 23 1st to OKC why not send a couple 2nds to eat Bledsoe instead of Hill? Major gaffe on Griffin's part and they're teetering at the luxury tax with 300k to spare.

I think if the Nuggets wanted they could've nabbed Ball and flipped Bledsoe to Orlando for Ross and would probably have to send an additional pick say a lightly pro. 1st as Orlando has finally committed to a proper direction plus they'd be saving 7.6M off their 22-23 cap sheet. If NOLA was to ask for Bol bol, would it be worth the risk knowing that bol bol is a major project? I'd have to really think about it but if that was the asking price where you flip Millsap+Barton to a 3rd team say Dallas or anyone else it'd be worth considering.

The only fear is that you got a bunch of dudes looking to get new contracts whether they be RFA/UFA and you don't want to end up in a problem like Indiana did when they flipped Danny Granger for Evan Turner who ended up fighting Lance Stephenson and both were gone by the end of the year. Plus it didn't help that PG-13 had an affair with Hibbert's wife literally killing him on the inside and that team wasn't the same afterwards. Granger was the glue holding that team together and with these situations you gotta tread carefully.

[Richard Miller]

I think if the Nuggets wanted they could've nabbed Ball and flipped Bledsoe to Orlando for Ross and would probably have to send an additional pick say a lightly pro. 1st as Orlando has finally committed to a proper direction plus they'd be saving 7.6M off their 22-23 cap sheet. If NOLA was to ask for Bol bol, would it be worth the risk knowing that bol bol is a major project? I'd have to really think about it but if that was the asking price where you flip Millsap+Barton to a 3rd team say Dallas or anyone else it'd be worth considering.

Maybe now that would've made some sense, but while Murray was healthy they didn't really need Ball, he'd been like 5th or 6th option and I doubt he'd be ok with that, not to mention that according to some reports he was mostly interested in a big market, NY etc.

I remember reading they did extensive check of Gordon's background, what kind of player he is, would he be a good fit/willing to commit and play a different role etc, imo I don't think Ball would've fit in all that.

[NuggetsWY]

I think if the Nuggets wanted they could've nabbed Ball and flipped Bledsoe to Orlando for Ross and would probably have to send an additional pick say a lightly pro. 1st as Orlando has finally committed to a proper direction plus they'd be saving 7.6M off their 22-23 cap sheet. If NOLA was to ask for Bol bol, would it be worth the risk knowing that bol bol is a major project? I'd have to really think about it but if that was the asking price where you flip Millsap+Barton to a 3rd team say Dallas or anyone else it'd be worth considering.

Maybe now that would've made some sense, but while Murray was healthy they didn't really need Ball, he'd been like 5th or 6th option and I doubt he'd be ok with that, not to mention that according to some reports he was mostly interested in a big market, NY etc.

I remember reading they did extensive check of Gordon's background, what kind of player he is, would he be a good fit/willing to commit and play a different role etc, imo I don't think Ball would've fit in all that.

I believed what you are saying about Ball - before his time in New Orleans. I'm not going to say I'm "all in" on Ball now but he's impressed me as more of a combo guard - not a ball dominant one either. I actually believe he could work with Jokic & Murray - but I'm still opposed to Denver acquiring him just because of the salary issues. With Jokic & Murray & Porter & Gordon; there just isn't going to be any reasonable means of keeping all five - but that's just my opinion.

[slicedbread2]

I think if the Nuggets wanted they could've nabbed Ball and flipped Bledsoe to Orlando for Ross and would probably have to send an additional pick say a lightly pro. 1st as Orlando has finally committed to a proper direction plus they'd be saving 7.6M off their 22-23 cap sheet. If NOLA was to ask for Bol bol, would it be worth the risk knowing that bol bol is a major project? I'd have to really think about it but if that was the asking price where you flip Millsap+Barton to a 3rd team say Dallas or anyone else it'd be worth considering.

Maybe now that would've made some sense, but while Murray was healthy they didn't really need Ball, he'd been like 5th or 6th option and I doubt he'd be ok with that, not to mention that according to some reports he was mostly interested in a big market, NY etc.

I remember reading they did extensive check of Gordon's background, what kind of player he is, would he be a good fit/willing to commit and play a different role etc, imo I don't think Ball would've fit in all that.

I believed what you are saying about Ball - before his time in New Orleans. I'm not going to say I'm "all in" on Ball now but he's impressed me as more of a combo guard - not a ball dominant one either. I actually believe he could work with Jokic & Murray - but I'm still opposed to Denver acquiring him just because of the salary issues. With Jokic & Murray & Porter & Gordon; there just isn't going to be any reasonable means of keeping all five - but that's just my opinion.

Yes I wouldn't blame them either. To pay potentially the entire payroll on 5-6 players before having to fill out the rest of the roster would be a nightmare.

In the end, as much as I'd love Ball, I would've gone a different route. Let's say if they had used their TPE's on Hill and Brown Jr., they could've gone with another route where they could've acquired Satoransky from CHI and Ross from Orlando in another complicated but I think maybe more realistic scenario where the Nuggets help the Bulls acquire Lonzo Ball as he was linked to them in rumours but Bledsoe's deal was the holdup:

Philly: George Hill
Chicago: Lonzo Ball, Will Barton
Denver: Tomas Satoransky, Terrence Ross
Orlando: Eric Bledsoe, maybe a 1st from DEN for Ross who's streaky but a better assets than Bledsoe
New Orleans: Lauri Markannen(maybe gets flipped to a team like SA for picks or another team?), expiring filler and multiple picks.

-Philly gets Hill at a nice price just like they paid OKC
-Chicago gets Ball who could be a nice fit next to Lavine for the future plus they get Barton who could help them as a mentor for the young team while moving on from some of the young dudes who didn't work out.
-Denver gets Ross who while not as good as Beasley could thrive in Denver while Satoransky's size at 6'7 would make him an ideal secondary ball handler whenever Joker or Murray/both are resting plus Sato has an extra year on his deal while Ross has 2 more years at a depreciating cap hit. 2 good supporting players that know their role and are at good value.
-Orlando gets another 1st for eating Bledsoe's awful salary.
-NOLA could flip Markannen to SA or another team for a pro.1st/multiple 2nds and receive extra picks while balancing the cap sheet and shedding Bledsoe's deal.

Would have to send out Millsap in order to stay under the tax for this year, but I think it'd be a more balanced team in the long run while maintaining cap flexibility for another year. These deals could've allowed the Nuggets to hold the fort and be even more dangerous.

It'll be interesting to see what they do this off-season and if they can get Gordon and MPJ to sign some extensions before next year, it'll help them immensely. They got some decisions with Barton. They could S&T him to another team if he chooses to go elsewhere especially if he gets more than what Denver is willing to pay.

[skywalker33]

Maybe now that would've made some sense, but while Murray was healthy they didn't really need Ball, he'd been like 5th or 6th option and I doubt he'd be ok with that, not to mention that according to some reports he was mostly interested in a big market, NY etc.

I remember reading they did extensive check of Gordon's background, what kind of player he is, would he be a good fit/willing to commit and play a different role etc, imo I don't think Ball would've fit in all that.

I believed what you are saying about Ball - before his time in New Orleans. I'm not going to say I'm "all in" on Ball now but he's impressed me as more of a combo guard - not a ball dominant one either. I actually believe he could work with Jokic & Murray - but I'm still opposed to Denver acquiring him just because of the salary issues. With Jokic & Murray & Porter & Gordon; there just isn't going to be any reasonable means of keeping all five - but that's just my opinion.

Yes I wouldn't blame them either. To pay potentially the entire payroll on 5-6 players before having to fill out the rest of the roster would be a nightmare.

In the end, as much as I'd love Ball, I would've gone a different route. Let's say if they had used their TPE's on Hill and Brown Jr., they could've gone with another route where they could've acquired Satoransky from CHI and Ross from Orlando in another complicated but I think maybe more realistic scenario where the Nuggets help the Bulls acquire Lonzo Ball as he was linked to them in rumours but Bledsoe's deal was the holdup:

Philly: George Hill
Chicago: Lonzo Ball, Will Barton
Denver: Tomas Satoransky, Terrence Ross
Orlando: Eric Bledsoe, maybe a 1st from DEN for Ross who's streaky but a better assets than Bledsoe
New Orleans: Lauri Markannen(maybe gets flipped to a team like SA for picks or another team?), expiring filler and multiple picks.

-Philly gets Hill at a nice price just like they paid OKC
-Chicago gets Ball who could be a nice fit next to Lavine for the future plus they get Barton who could help them as a mentor for the young team while moving on from some of the young dudes who didn't work out.
-Denver gets Ross who while not as good as Beasley could thrive in Denver while Satoransky's size at 6'7 would make him an ideal secondary ball handler whenever Joker or Murray/both are resting plus Sato has an extra year on his deal while Ross has 2 more years at a depreciating cap hit. 2 good supporting players that know their role and are at good value.
-Orlando gets another 1st for eating Bledsoe's awful salary.
-NOLA could flip Markannen to SA or another team for a pro.1st/multiple 2nds and receive extra picks while balancing the cap sheet and shedding Bledsoe's deal.

Would have to send out Millsap in order to stay under the tax for this year, but I think it'd be a more balanced team in the long run while maintaining cap flexibility for another year. These deals could've allowed the Nuggets to hold the fort and be even more dangerous.

It'll be interesting to see what they do this off-season and if they can get Gordon and MPJ to sign some extensions before next year, it'll help them immensely. They got some decisions with Barton. They could S&T him to another team if he chooses to go elsewhere especially if he gets more than what Denver is willing to pay.

First, Satorasky is TERRIBLE, overpriced, not sure what you think he'd bring to the Nuggets. Ross I get but seems like you're in panic mode with your trades.

Second, I do like Ross but we've already traded away 2 of our future 1st along with most of our 2nds. This teams has been built thru the draft, it's our FO's strength, why become like what the LAL or LAC will become ??

[slicedbread2]

I believed what you are saying about Ball - before his time in New Orleans. I'm not going to say I'm "all in" on Ball now but he's impressed me as more of a combo guard - not a ball dominant one either. I actually believe he could work with Jokic & Murray - but I'm still opposed to Denver acquiring him just because of the salary issues. With Jokic & Murray & Porter & Gordon; there just isn't going to be any reasonable means of keeping all five - but that's just my opinion.

Yes I wouldn't blame them either. To pay potentially the entire payroll on 5-6 players before having to fill out the rest of the roster would be a nightmare.

In the end, as much as I'd love Ball, I would've gone a different route. Let's say if they had used their TPE's on Hill and Brown Jr., they could've gone with another route where they could've acquired Satoransky from CHI and Ross from Orlando in another complicated but I think maybe more realistic scenario where the Nuggets help the Bulls acquire Lonzo Ball as he was linked to them in rumours but Bledsoe's deal was the holdup:

Philly: George Hill
Chicago: Lonzo Ball, Will Barton
Denver: Tomas Satoransky, Terrence Ross
Orlando: Eric Bledsoe, maybe a 1st from DEN for Ross who's streaky but a better assets than Bledsoe
New Orleans: Lauri Markannen(maybe gets flipped to a team like SA for picks or another team?), expiring filler and multiple picks.

-Philly gets Hill at a nice price just like they paid OKC
-Chicago gets Ball who could be a nice fit next to Lavine for the future plus they get Barton who could help them as a mentor for the young team while moving on from some of the young dudes who didn't work out.
-Denver gets Ross who while not as good as Beasley could thrive in Denver while Satoransky's size at 6'7 would make him an ideal secondary ball handler whenever Joker or Murray/both are resting plus Sato has an extra year on his deal while Ross has 2 more years at a depreciating cap hit. 2 good supporting players that know their role and are at good value.
-Orlando gets another 1st for eating Bledsoe's awful salary.
-NOLA could flip Markannen to SA or another team for a pro.1st/multiple 2nds and receive extra picks while balancing the cap sheet and shedding Bledsoe's deal.

Would have to send out Millsap in order to stay under the tax for this year, but I think it'd be a more balanced team in the long run while maintaining cap flexibility for another year. These deals could've allowed the Nuggets to hold the fort and be even more dangerous.

It'll be interesting to see what they do this off-season and if they can get Gordon and MPJ to sign some extensions before next year, it'll help them immensely. They got some decisions with Barton. They could S&T him to another team if he chooses to go elsewhere especially if he gets more than what Denver is willing to pay.

First, Satorasky is TERRIBLE, overpriced, not sure what you think he'd bring to the Nuggets. Ross I get but seems like you're in panic mode with your trades.

Second, I do like Ross but we've already traded away 2 of our future 1st along with most of our 2nds. This teams has been built thru the draft, it's our FO's strength, why become like what the LAL or LAC will become ??

That's actually a good point. I forgot how bad Sato really was the last little while. Plus another good point with regards to Denver not being a FA destination and being careful with those picks.

Either way, the draft will always have good value as the Nuggets have found some nice value especially with Monte Morris being drafted 51st overall in the 2017 draft, Jokic at 40th in 2014 and Porter Jr. falling to 14th. They could slide down in this year's draft to get a later 1st plus a good 2nd or lower multiple 2nds and fill out the roster. They could find a diamond in the rough. Plus they have the following 3 trade exceptions left to use:

Jerami Grant: 5,325,000
R.J. Hampton: 2,193,000
Isaiah Hartenstein: 1,620,564

I expect the last 2 to just expire although the 1st one they could find someone who's under the radar if things fall into place. Plus I've been impressed by the drafting and developing of players under Tim Connelly and co. If Zeke Nnaji and Bol bol can take those next steps, they'll really be in good shape plus I expect them to bring back McGee and hopefully bring in Rivers just for the rest of this year+next and see what they can do from there. Plus Barton and JaMychal Green have P/O and I expect both to opt out of them. It'll be interesting to see what they do as I've come to like what Green does off the bench.

[THE J0KER]

*Problem* with Lonzo Ball is that his remarkable TS% shooting breakthrough in the past 3 months where he improved in 30 games since January 24 from under-60% awful FT% shooter and mediocre 3pt shooter into elite over-85% FT% and 42% 3p% (3.5 threes per game!), make him overnight much more likable upcoming summer to much more teams, plus there is a scenario to Pells matching every offer for him and then trade him as an asset. Already during his Lakers time, Lonzo proved he can play some good defense (nobody playing defense seriously in developing New Orleans) and his father troublemaker finally learned how to not undermine his value while still make pressure on his son to join some big market scene (which unfortunately not include Colorado), so for me, Lonzo Ball scenario this summer is "too good to be true" for Nuggets, we can compete but not win him. If Jamal Murray was ACL injured before the trade deadline we can make a big push for Ball and be in the best position to re-sign him, but now is too late.

The other missing opportunity for the Nuggets this trade deadline was Bogdan Bogdanovic which trade value was on the lowest point back in time when he has very disappointing numbers and missed most of the games due to a knee injury. But in the last about 20 games (since March 14) he is the hottest shooter in NBA after Steph Curry with unreal 50-50-90 percentages (3.5 threes per game) so the new Atlanta coach (Nate McMillan, my favorite pick to replace Malone out of available coaches back in time) will not put him on the trade table for sure once he from the Hawks biggest disappointment started to overperforming lately (since Bogdan knee injury comeback Atlanta was 16-6 and suddenly improve from #11 to #4 on the East!).

So Lonzo Ball and Bogdan Bogdanovic which we discussed here during the trade deadline are unfortunately not anymore available for the Nuggets despite our FO for sure would send a much bigger offer now than then. Of course, back in time, they have no crystal ball to predict Murray's big injury...

If I can choose our #1 target this Summer it will be another Murray (Spurs' Dejounte)! He is not on the trade table officially, but Spurs are definitely the team in rebuilding mode this summer after Aldridge has gone and DeRozen becoming FA so everyone is on the table if you send enough massive offers (Barton, Bol, and 2xFRP for Dejounte is more than fair). Dejounte will be that two-way perfect backcourt teammate when Jamal once is back and his presence as someone who perfectly recovered from the ACL injury would be perfect for Jamal's ACL recovering process. I still can't see we can win the ring nor the West until another Murray is back, but with the Morris-Murray2-MPJ-Gordon-Jokic starting lineup, we can stay TOP4 seed on the West. That is for me the best-case scenario for the 2021-22 season.

BTW, if our FO wants to play dirty during 2nd best player ACL missed the season, they can follow the GSW/Klay/Curry 2020 case and fake early in 2021-22 Jokic season-ending *injury* tanking badly and taking super-high 2022 pick

[The Rebel]

Reading this thread I cannot figure out if you guys do not realize how stacked this team is compared to other contenders or if I have lost my mind. We are 5-1 without our 2nd best player, and a lot of those games have been blowouts. Teams that lose their 2nd best player do not usually continue win streaks.

We have 6 starting quality players when healthy, we have 10 guys who are rotation players on good teams. There are literally contenders starting guys who were paid to go away by their last team or Gleague quality players in their rotation. We have 2 guys who were starters for conference finals teams last year that are competing for minutes off the bench this year.

Losing Murray hurts, but let's be real Morris is a starting quality PG. Gordon was the 2nd option on a playoff team, he is arguably the best 4th option in the league, and is a well above average 3rd option. Jokic is having the best season in the league, and it isn't particularly close. While MPJ is only in his 2nd year playing, he is putting up star quality numbers on a nightly basis. People can talk all the **** they want, but this team was easily a contender fully healthy.

I do not get this whole idea that we should be making short term moves, the only way to add talent is through the draft and ring chasers once you become contenders. TEams are not signing the top free agents, they are signing low level guys because of the way the salary cap is structured. We have a young contender, why the rush to **** it up?