As a Scoring Point Guard, Steph Has No Serious Rival

[Metallikid]

As a point guard, Steph has no serious rivals. He is almost in any invincible starting 5 as the PG due to unprecedented shooting, off ball, and gravity.

Wrong. There are lots of point guards who are serious rivals or better than Steph because they were better point guards. Steph's not that great a passer actually. He's also not a good defender and historically point guard is the position that needs defense the most outside of centres.

You want to say Steph's the best Combo Guard of all time, sure, that's arguable.

[LoneyROY]

Jordan is Steph's only serious rival in this category. That others are even being mentioned shows Curry is still being underrated. Anyone saying Curry is being overrated is ignorant at best or else a provocateur.

Curry eliminated his two biggest rivals of the era at his position in Harden and Chris Paul playing at the same time against him despite giving them a scoreless half and a lead to work with. That answered any open question in relation to Harden with finality.

Harden averaged 35/7/6 in that series you just referenced vs. Steph's 24/5/5.

Amazing "finality".

[dygaction]

I don't think there's a big drop off between Steph and Dame at this point.

Dame’s career best eFG% is 56%
Curry’s career average eFG% is 58%

Dame’s career best TS% is 62%
Curry’s career average TS% is 62%

So peak Dame is essentially equal to average Curry when it comes to scoring efficiency.

Curry has had a better supporting cast most of his career, compared to Dame.

in a vacuum, looking at pure talent, Dame is right up there with Curry.

Dame is at least a level below in terms of overall efficiency, off ball, and defense. Curry is an average defender but Dame is historically bad.

[Pelly24]

Threads such as this one are how and why certain players get overrated. Not saying by a lot but overrated all the same. I don't feel like a lot of people who make these threads or say a bunch of hyperbolic things about the player they are about have been following the nba for more than 10-20 years either. For instance, no Steph isn't the goat screen runner and his release while quick I'm not sold on the quickest but also he has very little lift and a somewhat low release point on top of being sort of smallish which means he can't get his shot off quite as easily as other guys such as Reggie or Luka. You can appreciate a player without them needing to be the greatest ever at x, y, z and x1, y2, z2. I say this as someone who's been making complimentary posts about Steph almost all season long including when people were busy making the threads about him being so exposed early on and when the Warriors record started to sink a month or so ago.

I don't think this is that hyperbolic. I made the parameters specific enough to exclude the points that you're making. Point guards are generally under 6'5" and they lack the physicality to score this many points in general, let alone on this efficiency on a team where they end up getting doubled and trapped all of the time. Getting 30+ ppg on above 64 T% multiple times, with this time being in his age 32 season, is absolute insanity. In terms of pure efficiency and volume, there are not other point guards that really are that close. I'd say Dame is next up and Kyrie is right there. I would even argue that those guys are better at making a variety of shots, and that there's less of an actual plausible gameplan to stop Kyrie other than him missing shots than there is for Steph. But Steph's ability to shoot this many threes at this volume and make them so efficiently with this amount of defensive attention he gets is just ridiculous.

Steph just kills Luka in efficiency, also, and Steph's on a worse team too. I would probably take Harden over Steph as a scorer or it's a draw because Harden can get to the line much more with his power and speed and size so he can shoot horribly and still be efficient. Steph can be prone to struggling (relatively speaking) when his three ball is off. But that said, he's the best scoring PG.

[WarriorGM]

Jordan is Steph's only serious rival in this category. That others are even being mentioned shows Curry is still being underrated. Anyone saying Curry is being overrated is ignorant at best or else a provocateur.

Curry eliminated his two biggest rivals of the era at his position in Harden and Chris Paul playing at the same time against him despite giving them a scoreless half and a lead to work with. That answered any open question in relation to Harden with finality.

Harden averaged 35/7/6 in that series you just referenced vs. Steph's 24/5/5.

Amazing "finality".

Yet Harden lost despite playing with CP3. Explain that.

Harden has lost in every single playoffs series he has played against Curry. Harden's case against Curry was on life support already when they met in that 2019 playoffs. After getting beat like that Harden has no case. Curry demonstrated in that game 6 he took their souls the difference as clearly as you're ever going to see it. Harden and Paul simply cannot keep up.

[LoneyROY]

Jordan is Steph's only serious rival in this category. That others are even being mentioned shows Curry is still being underrated. Anyone saying Curry is being overrated is ignorant at best or else a provocateur.

Curry eliminated his two biggest rivals of the era at his position in Harden and Chris Paul playing at the same time against him despite giving them a scoreless half and a lead to work with. That answered any open question in relation to Harden with finality.

Harden averaged 35/7/6 in that series you just referenced vs. Steph's 24/5/5.

Amazing "finality".

Yet Harden lost despite playing with CP3. Explain that.

Harden has lost in every single playoffs series he has played against Curry. Harden case against Curry was on life support as it is when they met in that 2019 playoffs. After getting beat like that Harden has no case. Curry demonstrated in that game 6 he took their souls the difference as clearly as your ever going to see it. Harden and Paul simply cannot keep up.

Curry was on the better and more talented team in EVERY SINGLE SERIES. Congratulations.

Curry had 33 in the game 6 you're waxing poetically about. Harden had 35.

[WarriorGM]

Harden averaged 35/7/6 in that series you just referenced vs. Steph's 24/5/5.

Amazing "finality".

Yet Harden lost despite playing with CP3. Explain that.

Harden has lost in every single playoffs series he has played against Curry. Harden case against Curry was on life support as it is when they met in that 2019 playoffs. After getting beat like that Harden has no case. Curry demonstrated in that game 6 he took their souls the difference as clearly as your ever going to see it. Harden and Paul simply cannot keep up.

Curry was on the better and more talented team in EVERY SINGLE SERIES. Congratulations.

Curry had 33 in the game 6 you're waxing poetically about. Harden had 35.

This was the only faint argument that Harden had but the series was reduced to 3 all-time great players with Steph on one side and Harden and Paul on the other and we saw what happened. Harden was given a half's worth of time head start and still couldn't close. Curry was drawing so much attention a player like Draymond Green (tank commander of 2020) was able to pick the Rockets apart.

[Peregrine01]

Harden averaged 35/7/6 in that series you just referenced vs. Steph's 24/5/5.

Amazing "finality".

Yet Harden lost despite playing with CP3. Explain that.

Harden has lost in every single playoffs series he has played against Curry. Harden case against Curry was on life support as it is when they met in that 2019 playoffs. After getting beat like that Harden has no case. Curry demonstrated in that game 6 he took their souls the difference as clearly as your ever going to see it. Harden and Paul simply cannot keep up.

Curry was on the better and more talented team in EVERY SINGLE SERIES. Congratulations.

Curry had 33 in the game 6 you're waxing poetically about. Harden had 35.

I always find it funny how some people seem to think that the Warriors suddenly became some kind of super team in 2015, when they had the exact same core in 13 and 14. People certainly weren't thinking of those Warriors as stacked with talent even though it was virtually the same roster that was spanking the Rockets in practically every game for two straight years thereafter.

[VanWest82]

I don't think it's been accurate to call Steph a PG since 2015.

[phanman]

Lots of people focusing on just his 3pt shooting but fail to realize that Steph is an absolutely deadly finisher in all areas of the floor. I mean just look at these numbers from this season vs Dame in comparison:

Rim: 64.7% vs 61.9%
3-10ft: 57.5% vs 32%
10-16ft: 53.3% vs 43.2%
16-<3pt 48.6% vs 46.5%
3pt: 42.4% vs 37.9%

He has him beat in all areas of the floor. Honestly if you removed Draymond from the team and put Steph in a more traditional playmaking role, his assist numbers would be up there with the best of them as well. Just look at the 14 and 15 season before Draymonds rise, he averaged 8.5ast with a 39.9%ast and a 7.7ast with a 38.6%ast respectively.

[JerryWest_44]

Please dont mention him in same breath with the all time great guards like Kobe or MJ. Steph was 1 dimensional in contrast to Kobe and MJ who played lockdown defense as well.

[LoneyROY]

I always find it funny how some people seem to think that the Warriors suddenly became some kind of super team in 2015, when they had the exact same core in 13 and 14. People certainly weren't thinking of those Warriors as stacked with talent even though it was virtually the same roster that was spanking the Rockets in practically every game for two straight years thereafter.

Harden in his career vs. Curry in the playoffs: 29/7/6.

Curry in his career vs. Harden in the playoffs: 25/5/5.

Harden has consistently outproduced Curry head-to-head in the postseason, Stephen just happens to have been on the better team. It is what it is.

[WarriorGM]

Please dont mention him in same breath with the all time great guards like Kobe or MJ. Steph was 1 dimensional in contrast to Kobe and MJ who played lockdown defense as well.

That's like saying don't mention Kobe and MJ in the same breath as Curry because they didn't and probably never could shoot the three like Curry does. Kobe and MJ are based on the same model. Curry is a truer original.

[Cavsfansince84]

I don't think this is that hyperbolic. I made the parameters specific enough to exclude the points that you're making. Point guards are generally under 6'5" and they lack the physicality to score this many points in general, let alone on this efficiency on a team where they end up getting doubled and trapped all of the time. Getting 30+ ppg on above 64 T% multiple times, with this time being in his age 32 season, is absolute insanity. In terms of pure efficiency and volume, there are not other point guards that really are that close. I'd say Dame is next up and Kyrie is right there. I would even argue that those guys are better at making a variety of shots, and that there's less of an actual plausible gameplan to stop Kyrie other than him missing shots than there is for Steph. But Steph's ability to shoot this many threes at this volume and make them so efficiently with this amount of defensive attention he gets is just ridiculous.

Steph just kills Luka in efficiency, also, and Steph's on a worse team too. I would probably take Harden over Steph as a scorer or it's a draw because Harden can get to the line much more with his power and speed and size so he can shoot horribly and still be efficient. Steph can be prone to struggling (relatively speaking) when his three ball is off. But that said, he's the best scoring PG.

I'm not necessarily pointing you out with my comment. More some of the other comments that get piled onto it. The efficiency is impressive but relative to league average I'm not sure it stands out that much compared to what guys like AD, Gervin and Wilt did. I think his 2016 season actually stood out more as well.

[JerryWest_44]

Please dont mention him in same breath with the all time great guards like Kobe or MJ. Steph was 1 dimensional in contrast to Kobe and MJ who played lockdown defense as well.

That's like saying don't mention Kobe and MJ in the same breath as Curry because they didn't and probably never could shoot the three like Curry does.

Your point based on 1 aspect of an offensive skillset is laughable. Defense is one side of a complete player.

[PointaSista]

hmmmm no mention of Westbrook or Jerry West.....West could shoot just as well only we have very little footage and no 3pt line.....Westbrook is an equally capable scorer although he scores in a different way...also similar game to Mahmoud Abdul Rauf although coaches didn't allow PGs to play in this fashion before now

[WarriorGM]

I always find it funny how some people seem to think that the Warriors suddenly became some kind of super team in 2015, when they had the exact same core in 13 and 14. People certainly weren't thinking of those Warriors as stacked with talent even though it was virtually the same roster that was spanking the Rockets in practically every game for two straight years thereafter.

Harden in his career vs. Curry in the playoffs: 29/7/6.

Curry in his career vs. Harden in the playoffs: 25/5/5.

Harden has consistently outproduced Curry head-to-head in the postseason, Stephen just happens to have been on the better team. It is what it is.

You think Draymond's numbers are really all produced by Draymond? Ha! You could probably take half the numbers he gets and properly credit it to Curry. When you realize that you would have taken the first step to understanding how understated Curry's numbers really are.

[WHITE_HOT_HEAT]

Almost right.. Harden and Dame are close as well.

[WarriorGM]

Please dont mention him in same breath with the all time great guards like Kobe or MJ. Steph was 1 dimensional in contrast to Kobe and MJ who played lockdown defense as well.

That's like saying don't mention Kobe and MJ in the same breath as Curry because they didn't and probably never could shoot the three like Curry does.

Your point based on 1 aspect of an offensive skillset is laughable. Defense is one side of a complete player.

Your understanding of team defense is one dimensional. For example have you taken into account the indirect effect superior efficiency has on the ability to field better defensive players? I'm guessing you haven't. Get back to me when you understand that idea. Then I can give you more similarly indirect effects that Curry provides his team that Kobe and MJ probably didn't.

[Peregrine01]

I always find it funny how some people seem to think that the Warriors suddenly became some kind of super team in 2015, when they had the exact same core in 13 and 14. People certainly weren't thinking of those Warriors as stacked with talent even though it was virtually the same roster that was spanking the Rockets in practically every game for two straight years thereafter.

Harden in his career vs. Curry in the playoffs: 29/7/6.

Curry in his career vs. Harden in the playoffs: 25/5/5.

Harden has consistently outproduced Curry head-to-head in the postseason, Stephen just happens to have been on the better team. It is what it is.

When you use raw counting stats without giving any context, you can mold the argument in your favor. Harden is an all-time leader in usage, especially in those 18 and 19 years when they played GSW. Curry isn't (and his usage was way lower in the 18 and 19 playoffs) so he's just not going to trump Harden when you put things like that.

Anyway, I wasn't even getting into that. I was disputing the notion that the Warriors were somehow accepted as a superteam come 2015 when they had virtually the same roster in 13 and 14 and no one were thinking they had world-beating talent. It's funny how narratives change with revisionist history.