Miami Heat Regular Season/Speculation Thread 2021 Part 3

[HIF]

I'm just tired of seeing your redundant posts. I think you've made your point...dozens of times. I'm not saying I entirely disagree with you, its just that you've beaten this horse to death long ago.

And that's the sad part, I've been saying this for half of Butler's contract and still, very few moves have been made and the moves that were made were very safe/low risk moves. It's not what I expected from an organization controlled by Riley.

Maybe Riley isn't reading your posts. Sadly we have to see you repeat the same **** 20 times on every page.

[HIF]

Spoiler:

And that's the sad part, I've been saying this for half of Butler's contract and still, very few moves have been made and the moves that were made were very safe/low risk moves. It's not what I expected from an organization controlled by Riley.

The only one I agree with is the Chris Paul one. We shoulda got him.

We didn’t have enough for Harden. Plain and simple.

Also, you definitely don’t trade Herro for 35 year old Lowry in any circumstance.

It is what it is man. Oladipo would have been tremendous and maybe we’d be 2-1 on this road trip had he not gotten hurt.

Couldn't of gotten Harden? Have you looked at the package Houston received?

Houston got...
LeVert who turned into Oladipo.
4 draft picks, highly probable 2 late 1st round picks in 2022, a late 1st round in 2024 and possibly a mid 1st or better in 2026 from the Nets. So probably 3 late first rounders and 1 possibly good pick.
The 4 swaps, maybe move up a few spots in 2025 or 2027, highly doubt it's much.

TADA.. that's it but it sounds way better saying 4 1st rounders, 4 swaps and not mentioning the quality or high probability of most if not all of those swaps not getting close to happening. It's quite possible they get 0 lottery picks out of a Harden trade. What a horrible haul for a player who could play at an MVP caliber rate for another 3-5 years.

Yes, I think Miami had or could have given up more for Harden but Miami would have emptied out the cupboard and had to fill spots with vet minimums this year and FAs for the next few years.

How many 1st could you get for Robinson to send them? 1 for sure, possibly 2 and those may be late 1st rounders.
How many 1st for Herro or just send Herro to them? Any chance OKC would be fine giving back Miami their 2 1st rounders and possibly more for him? At the minimum I think you could get 2 solid 1sts(not late 1sts) for him, probably more from a rebuilding team with other team's picks.
Precious or KZ would be considered a late 1st round value or a little better.
Move Nunn who they may retain next year or flip for a 2nd rounder or pick swap like they did with Oladipo.
Offer up any and all pick swaps possible, even more if Miami gets it's 1sts back from OKC.
Add in Kelly and Iggy, they could try to get 2nd rounders from them at the trade dead line.

Also remember this, you're just not adding Harden to Miami, you're making sure a contender in the East doesn't get him.

On Lowry for Herro, I do that every day of the week if there's a wink wink agreement to resign Lowry for 2 more years to give Butler and Bam a much better chance at winning a championship for Miami.

Oladipo was a roll of the dice for now and the future(Bird rights) and hopefully long term he's fine and it would be even better if he was good to go shortly after this roadtrip. I hope it's just pain he has to play though and with that, hopefully he's taking extra time away from the team to find out how to not overcompensate for the pain which could create another issue.

Obviously Miami couldn't get him - they didn't.

You should get another job where you can earn so much more.

[RexBoyWonder]

Look, we had some good moves - some bad moves. Overall I think it's fair to say we did more good then bad, but got a little unlucky.

To me it all comes back to Dipo. That's the biggest factor going forward. If he can come back soon - I still like this team and our chances. We might not be title favorites - But with Dipo we could contend and have a good exciting team.

I don't see any other path at this point in time for us to make real playoff noise.


Dipo or bust for me.

The scary thing is - it might be the same equation this offseason. Not a lot of great free agents out there. We need a kawhi/healthy Dipo type addition to the core.

[twix2500]

Look, we had some good moves - some bad moves. Overall I think it's fair to say we did more good then bad, but got a little unlucky.

To me it all comes back to Dipo. That's the biggest factor going forward. If he can come back soon - I still like this team and our chances. We might not be title favorites - But with Dipo we could contend and have a good exciting team.

I don't see any other path at this point in time for us to make real playoff noise.


Dipo or bust for me.

The scary thing is - it might be the same equation this offseason. Not a lot of great free agents out there. We need a kawhi/healthy Dipo type addition to the core.

I'm curious about Jelly. Did he really fall out of favor with Spo or is he on Pat Riley body fat leave like they use to do to Antoine Walker

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[AirP.]

Spoiler:

The only one I agree with is the Chris Paul one. We shoulda got him.

We didn’t have enough for Harden. Plain and simple.

Also, you definitely don’t trade Herro for 35 year old Lowry in any circumstance.

It is what it is man. Oladipo would have been tremendous and maybe we’d be 2-1 on this road trip had he not gotten hurt.

Couldn't of gotten Harden? Have you looked at the package Houston received?

Houston got...
LeVert who turned into Oladipo.
4 draft picks, highly probable 2 late 1st round picks in 2022, a late 1st round in 2024 and possibly a mid 1st or better in 2026 from the Nets. So probably 3 late first rounders and 1 possibly good pick.
The 4 swaps, maybe move up a few spots in 2025 or 2027, highly doubt it's much.

TADA.. that's it but it sounds way better saying 4 1st rounders, 4 swaps and not mentioning the quality or high probability of most if not all of those swaps not getting close to happening. It's quite possible they get 0 lottery picks out of a Harden trade. What a horrible haul for a player who could play at an MVP caliber rate for another 3-5 years.

Yes, I think Miami had or could have given up more for Harden but Miami would have emptied out the cupboard and had to fill spots with vet minimums this year and FAs for the next few years.

How many 1st could you get for Robinson to send them? 1 for sure, possibly 2 and those may be late 1st rounders.
How many 1st for Herro or just send Herro to them? Any chance OKC would be fine giving back Miami their 2 1st rounders and possibly more for him? At the minimum I think you could get 2 solid 1sts(not late 1sts) for him, probably more from a rebuilding team with other team's picks.
Precious or KZ would be considered a late 1st round value or a little better.
Move Nunn who they may retain next year or flip for a 2nd rounder or pick swap like they did with Oladipo.
Offer up any and all pick swaps possible, even more if Miami gets it's 1sts back from OKC.
Add in Kelly and Iggy, they could try to get 2nd rounders from them at the trade dead line.

Also remember this, you're just not adding Harden to Miami, you're making sure a contender in the East doesn't get him.

On Lowry for Herro, I do that every day of the week if there's a wink wink agreement to resign Lowry for 2 more years to give Butler and Bam a much better chance at winning a championship for Miami.

Oladipo was a roll of the dice for now and the future(Bird rights) and hopefully long term he's fine and it would be even better if he was good to go shortly after this roadtrip. I hope it's just pain he has to play though and with that, hopefully he's taking extra time away from the team to find out how to not overcompensate for the pain which could create another issue.

Obviously Miami couldn't get him - they didn't.

You should get another job where you can earn so much more.

Obviously Miami couldn't get him because they didn't? Miami was the negotiating team that left the table not Houston, that normally indicates Houston felt they could still make a trade with Miami but Miami refused to give up certain assets and with that, Miami left the negotiations.

I know, why question a FO who actively made the team worse by limiting the contracts they were willing to give out after they got to the finals so they could have "cap space flexibility" in the next offseason. They grasped onto signing a max FA vs continuing to try to build the current team in FA(they did go after Morris) or trades. Even if Miami hadn't made the finals last year, they showed they weren't that far off of being a contender.

[TroubleS0me]

Look, we had some good moves - some bad moves. Overall I think it's fair to say we did more good then bad, but got a little unlucky.

To me it all comes back to Dipo. That's the biggest factor going forward. If he can come back soon - I still like this team and our chances. We might not be title favorites - But with Dipo we could contend and have a good exciting team.

I don't see any other path at this point in time for us to make real playoff noise.


Dipo or bust for me.

The scary thing is - it might be the same equation this offseason. Not a lot of great free agents out there. We need a kawhi/healthy Dipo type addition to the core.

I'm curious about Jelly. Did he really fall out of favor with Spo or is he on Pat Riley body fat leave like they use to do to Antoine Walker

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

[TroubleS0me]

too many injuries for us this season
feel like anybody can beat us @ this point

we need Home Depot to play like Indiana Home Depot

[HIF]

Spoiler:

Couldn't of gotten Harden? Have you looked at the package Houston received?

Houston got...
LeVert who turned into Oladipo.
4 draft picks, highly probable 2 late 1st round picks in 2022, a late 1st round in 2024 and possibly a mid 1st or better in 2026 from the Nets. So probably 3 late first rounders and 1 possibly good pick.
The 4 swaps, maybe move up a few spots in 2025 or 2027, highly doubt it's much.

TADA.. that's it but it sounds way better saying 4 1st rounders, 4 swaps and not mentioning the quality or high probability of most if not all of those swaps not getting close to happening. It's quite possible they get 0 lottery picks out of a Harden trade. What a horrible haul for a player who could play at an MVP caliber rate for another 3-5 years.

Yes, I think Miami had or could have given up more for Harden but Miami would have emptied out the cupboard and had to fill spots with vet minimums this year and FAs for the next few years.

How many 1st could you get for Robinson to send them? 1 for sure, possibly 2 and those may be late 1st rounders.
How many 1st for Herro or just send Herro to them? Any chance OKC would be fine giving back Miami their 2 1st rounders and possibly more for him? At the minimum I think you could get 2 solid 1sts(not late 1sts) for him, probably more from a rebuilding team with other team's picks.
Precious or KZ would be considered a late 1st round value or a little better.
Move Nunn who they may retain next year or flip for a 2nd rounder or pick swap like they did with Oladipo.
Offer up any and all pick swaps possible, even more if Miami gets it's 1sts back from OKC.
Add in Kelly and Iggy, they could try to get 2nd rounders from them at the trade dead line.

Also remember this, you're just not adding Harden to Miami, you're making sure a contender in the East doesn't get him.

On Lowry for Herro, I do that every day of the week if there's a wink wink agreement to resign Lowry for 2 more years to give Butler and Bam a much better chance at winning a championship for Miami.

Oladipo was a roll of the dice for now and the future(Bird rights) and hopefully long term he's fine and it would be even better if he was good to go shortly after this roadtrip. I hope it's just pain he has to play though and with that, hopefully he's taking extra time away from the team to find out how to not overcompensate for the pain which could create another issue.

Obviously Miami couldn't get him - they didn't.

You should get another job where you can earn so much more.

Obviously Miami couldn't get him because they didn't? Miami was the negotiating team that left the table not Houston, that normally indicates Houston felt they could still make a trade with Miami but Miami refused to give up certain assets and with that, Miami left the negotiations.

I know, why question a FO who actively made the team worse by limiting the contracts they were willing to give out after they got to the finals so they could have "cap space flexibility" in the next offseason. They grasped onto signing a max FA vs continuing to try to build the current team in FA(they did go after Morris) or trades. Even if Miami hadn't made the finals last year, they showed they weren't that far off of being a contender.

It just makes me laugh to see you thinking you know more than andy Ellisburgh, Pat riley and everyone. Especially when you are calling them out on a few deals with 20:20 hindsight. We'll never know if you thought the Shaq or bosh deals were bad will we.

By all means offer alternatives but stop with the "I know better than the Heat FO". They've kicked ass for over a decade.

[NBADraft2003]

Spoiler:

Couldn't of gotten Harden? Have you looked at the package Houston received?

Houston got...
LeVert who turned into Oladipo.
4 draft picks, highly probable 2 late 1st round picks in 2022, a late 1st round in 2024 and possibly a mid 1st or better in 2026 from the Nets. So probably 3 late first rounders and 1 possibly good pick.
The 4 swaps, maybe move up a few spots in 2025 or 2027, highly doubt it's much.

TADA.. that's it but it sounds way better saying 4 1st rounders, 4 swaps and not mentioning the quality or high probability of most if not all of those swaps not getting close to happening. It's quite possible they get 0 lottery picks out of a Harden trade. What a horrible haul for a player who could play at an MVP caliber rate for another 3-5 years.

Yes, I think Miami had or could have given up more for Harden but Miami would have emptied out the cupboard and had to fill spots with vet minimums this year and FAs for the next few years.

How many 1st could you get for Robinson to send them? 1 for sure, possibly 2 and those may be late 1st rounders.
How many 1st for Herro or just send Herro to them? Any chance OKC would be fine giving back Miami their 2 1st rounders and possibly more for him? At the minimum I think you could get 2 solid 1sts(not late 1sts) for him, probably more from a rebuilding team with other team's picks.
Precious or KZ would be considered a late 1st round value or a little better.
Move Nunn who they may retain next year or flip for a 2nd rounder or pick swap like they did with Oladipo.
Offer up any and all pick swaps possible, even more if Miami gets it's 1sts back from OKC.
Add in Kelly and Iggy, they could try to get 2nd rounders from them at the trade dead line.

Also remember this, you're just not adding Harden to Miami, you're making sure a contender in the East doesn't get him.

On Lowry for Herro, I do that every day of the week if there's a wink wink agreement to resign Lowry for 2 more years to give Butler and Bam a much better chance at winning a championship for Miami.

Oladipo was a roll of the dice for now and the future(Bird rights) and hopefully long term he's fine and it would be even better if he was good to go shortly after this roadtrip. I hope it's just pain he has to play though and with that, hopefully he's taking extra time away from the team to find out how to not overcompensate for the pain which could create another issue.

Obviously Miami couldn't get him - they didn't.

You should get another job where you can earn so much more.

Obviously Miami couldn't get him because they didn't? Miami was the negotiating team that left the table not Houston, that normally indicates Houston felt they could still make a trade with Miami but Miami refused to give up certain assets and with that, Miami left the negotiations.

I know, why question a FO who actively made the team worse by limiting the contracts they were willing to give out after they got to the finals so they could have "cap space flexibility" in the next offseason. They grasped onto signing a max FA vs continuing to try to build the current team in FA(they did go after Morris) or trades. Even if Miami hadn't made the finals last year, they showed they weren't that far off of being a contender.

I think Miami couldn’t get James because:

1.He always WANTED to go to Brooklyn.

2.I don’t know why people keep saying it but it had nothing to do with Tyler being included. The problem was, we didn’t have 4 first round picks to give along with 4 pick swaps. If we had the picks which is what they wanted most, that would’ve been done.

[greg4012]

Ironic that we lamented not getting LMA, but imagine if we did? We’d have our 2 prized midseason acquisitions out injured.

Are people really missing Kelly Olynyk? Look, he was solid for us and we could use him at the moment. But we’re a .500 team with him and a .500 team without him. He’s putting up numbers on a garbage team. It’s like if a tree falls in the woods and nobody hears it, does it even make a sound?

I had 3.5 years of Olynyk. I’m not going to be swayed by a 10 game sample size. He’s shooting 59%, he’s got hot at the right time. Contract year.

It’s unfortunate what happened with Vic. We were turning the corner. Our defense looked much better and offensively, he was just starting to get comfortable.

With the CP3 stuff, that contract was considered amongst the worst in the league when OKC traded for it. Anyone pining for Paul is using 20/20 hindsight vision. Nobody would’ve surrendered a run at 2021 FA for old man Paul at the time.

Who knew he had this much left in the tank?

Chris Paul proved the whole NBA wrong by playing up to his contract. Kudos to the few that were confident in taking it on a couple years ago. We would be better if we were willing to. I wasn't convinced at the time.

[SoFlaKingReal]

Spoiler:

Obviously Miami couldn't get him - they didn't.

You should get another job where you can earn so much more.

Obviously Miami couldn't get him because they didn't? Miami was the negotiating team that left the table not Houston, that normally indicates Houston felt they could still make a trade with Miami but Miami refused to give up certain assets and with that, Miami left the negotiations.

I know, why question a FO who actively made the team worse by limiting the contracts they were willing to give out after they got to the finals so they could have "cap space flexibility" in the next offseason. They grasped onto signing a max FA vs continuing to try to build the current team in FA(they did go after Morris) or trades. Even if Miami hadn't made the finals last year, they showed they weren't that far off of being a contender.

I think Miami couldn’t get James because:

1.He always WANTED to go to Brooklyn.

2.I don’t know why people keep saying it but it had nothing to do with Tyler being included. The problem was, we didn’t have 4 first round picks to give along with 4 pick swaps. If we had the picks which is what they wanted most, that would’ve been done.

b-b-b-but what about AirP's narrative?

[AirP.]

Spoiler:

Obviously Miami couldn't get him - they didn't.

You should get another job where you can earn so much more.

Obviously Miami couldn't get him because they didn't? Miami was the negotiating team that left the table not Houston, that normally indicates Houston felt they could still make a trade with Miami but Miami refused to give up certain assets and with that, Miami left the negotiations.

I know, why question a FO who actively made the team worse by limiting the contracts they were willing to give out after they got to the finals so they could have "cap space flexibility" in the next offseason. They grasped onto signing a max FA vs continuing to try to build the current team in FA(they did go after Morris) or trades. Even if Miami hadn't made the finals last year, they showed they weren't that far off of being a contender.

It just makes me laugh to see you thinking you know more than andy Ellisburgh, Pat riley and everyone. Especially when you are calling them out on a few deals with 20:20 hindsight. We'll never know if you thought the Shaq or bosh deals were bad will we.

By all means offer alternatives but stop with the "I know better than the Heat FO". They've kicked ass for over a decade.

D.Wade is ultimately the reason for Miami's success. Luckily Chicago was too hung up on trading D.Marshall with the 7th pick that they didn't trade up 3 spots to get the 4th pick and take Wade like Toronto offered them.

Wade's the one who powered the success in Miami the last 20 years although the FO did select him in the draft. He's the one that powered Miami to their 1st championship, he was the reason LeBron and Bosh ended up in Miami, he's also the reason Butler forced his way to Miami.

Luckily Miami's FO decided not to pay Wade and let him go to Chicago, then get bought out and land in Cleveland before Miami did the right thing and bring him back and pay him for everything he did for this franchise.

Look at Chicago, without being gifted with Jordan at #2, they would have done nothing of note as a franchise because they prioritize profits over winning, I was a fan of theirs but once I figured that out, I was done.

Different franchises have different values, they're also a business do it's not always about winning Championships even when they say that's what they're all about, sometimes it's about profits or at least a certain amount of profits and don't want to take risks. Miami just seems to be a franchise that doesn't want to tank which causes a dip in revenue and I guess believe they can that top tier talent with cap space. Just better hope D.Wade and now maybe Butler and Bam will keep recruiting for the franchise.

[Kobewade11]

LeBron and Bosh ended up in Miami because of shrewd dealings and foresight by this FO to even make it a possibility. Without them we’d be watching that big 3 in Chicago or NY, but dont let me get in the way of pairagraph p’s narrative.

[AirP.]

Obviously Miami couldn't get him because they didn't? Miami was the negotiating team that left the table not Houston, that normally indicates Houston felt they could still make a trade with Miami but Miami refused to give up certain assets and with that, Miami left the negotiations.

I know, why question a FO who actively made the team worse by limiting the contracts they were willing to give out after they got to the finals so they could have "cap space flexibility" in the next offseason. They grasped onto signing a max FA vs continuing to try to build the current team in FA(they did go after Morris) or trades. Even if Miami hadn't made the finals last year, they showed they weren't that far off of being a contender.

I think Miami couldn’t get James because:

1.He always WANTED to go to Brooklyn.

2.I don’t know why people keep saying it but it had nothing to do with Tyler being included. The problem was, we didn’t have 4 first round picks to give along with 4 pick swaps. If we had the picks which is what they wanted most, that would’ve been done.

b-b-b-but what about AirP's narrative?

As I stated earlier, Miami could have went out and got draft picks, Brooklyn had to send Allen to get a 1st from Cleveland to send to Houston.

Could Miami have gotten 1-2 1st rounders for Robinson? I'd say yes. Under contract for a low number this year, Bird rights next year.
Could Miami have gotten MORE for Herro on a rookie contract for the next 3 years... I'd also say yes, OKC seemed to want him last year so I'm guessing they'd still be interested in him this year.
Could Miami given OKC some compensation(or included in a Herro trade) to have unlocked another 1st rounder... I'd also say yes.
Give them all the swaps they want, it's going to be a long time before they'd have a team better then Miami with Harden, Butler and Bam to want to make the swap.

BTW... Harden tried to recruit Butler to Houston for a few years(Houston offered Minnesota 4 1st for Butler) and this offseason and Harden said he'd be open to joining Miami, I'm sure he was although it was not his preferred location. He has his money and wants to win a ring for his legacy.

[AirP.]

LeBron and Bosh ended up in Miami because of shrewd dealings and foresight by this FO to even make it a possibility. Without them we’d be watching that big 3 in Chicago or NY, but dont let me get in the way of pairagraph p’s narrative.

Chicago had 2 max spots open that summer with D.Rose, J.Noah and L.Deng already on the roster.

They went to Miami because of D.Wade.

[Kobewade11]

Chicago had 2 max spots open

Exactly, we had 3. Now are you going to move on are you going to continue getting on everybodys nerve crying about **** that is over and done with?

[abark]

I think Miami couldn’t get James because:

1.He always WANTED to go to Brooklyn.

2.I don’t know why people keep saying it but it had nothing to do with Tyler being included. The problem was, we didn’t have 4 first round picks to give along with 4 pick swaps. If we had the picks which is what they wanted most, that would’ve been done.

b-b-b-but what about AirP's narrative?

As I stated earlier, Miami could have went out and got draft picks, Brooklyn had to send Allen to get a 1st from Cleveland to send to Houston.

Could Miami have gotten 1-2 1st rounders for Robinson? I'd say yes. Under contract for a low number this year, Bird rights next year.
Could Miami have gotten MORE for Herro on a rookie contract for the next 3 years... I'd also say yes, OKC seemed to want him last year so I'm guessing they'd still be interested in him this year.
Could Miami given OKC some compensation(or included in a Herro trade) to have unlocked another 1st rounder... I'd also say yes.
Give them all the swaps they want, it's going to be a long time before they'd have a team better then Miami with Harden, Butler and Bam to want to make the swap.

BTW... Harden tried to recruit Butler to Houston for a few years(Houston offered Minnesota 4 1st for Butler) and this offseason and Harden said he'd be open to joining Miami, I'm sure he was although it was not his preferred location. He has his money and wants to win a ring for his legacy.

Robinson is def not worth 2 first rounders. Who cares that he's on a cheap deal this year when you're going to have to pay him in a few months?

So between him and Herro you've prob found 2 first rounders. And we couldn't trade any of our own picks before 2025 due to the Stepien rule. Plus we didn't have the picks to add in a glut of pick swaps. Over the next 4 drafts we already only had 2 first rounders.

Best we could have added from our own draft stock was swaps in 22, 24, 26 and our picks in 25 and 27. At best, a similar deal. We definitely couldn't have blown away their deal without giving up Bam. Then our frontcourt would have absolutely blown.

[Rapaz]

Read on Twitter

It will be even tougher now for Riley to improve this team, having lost his best recruiter.

[Shootit]

Interesting team to get an ownership stake in. ~Distance and region wise.

Seems more former players are doing it and I applaud them in doing so.

[AirP.]

Robinson is def not worth 2 first rounders. Who cares that he's on a cheap deal this year when you're going to have to pay him in a few months?

So between him and Herro you've prob found 2 first rounders. And we couldn't trade any of our own picks before 2025 due to the Stepien rule. Plus we didn't have the picks to add in a glut of pick swaps. Over the next 4 drafts we already only had 2 first rounders.

Best we could have added from our own draft stock was swaps in 22, 24, 26 and our picks in 25 and 27. At best, a similar deal. We definitely couldn't have blown away their deal without giving up Bam. Then our frontcourt would have absolutely blown.

If you believe Herro and Robinson would only get 2 1st round picks together, I can't convince you. I think you're way off on their value.