Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2

[weneeda2guard]

Watch Lauri go FebruLauri on people the next 10 games with Zach out, as this board goes nuclear WWIII among the different -stans.

Only the ashes of Bulls fandom will be left, with 3/4 of all posters banned permanently.

Game 1 of the return of "febulauri"

3pts, 1-7 from the field, 1-6 from 3 with 5 rebs in 21 minutes.

I'm sure this is everyone else's fault as well smh.

BD is playing Lauri the same way Boylen was playing, the same way when Lauri expressed his lack of desire to be in the Bulls. Lauri was only willing to talk about the extension because of the new management. But obviously the management didn't change anything since they are playing Lauri exactly the same way Boylen did, 3 point shooter who spreads the floor.

3 different coaches and nobody seems to know how to play lauri the "right way"

Maybe it's just lauri not playing well. Just a guess.

[Neonblazer]

Game 1 of the return of "febulauri"

3pts, 1-7 from the field, 1-6 from 3 with 5 rebs in 21 minutes.

I'm sure this is everyone else's fault as well smh.

BD is playing Lauri the same way Boylen was playing, the same way when Lauri expressed his lack of desire to be in the Bulls. Lauri was only willing to talk about the extension because of the new management. But obviously the management didn't change anything since they are playing Lauri exactly the same way Boylen did, 3 point shooter who spreads the floor.

3 different coaches and nobody seems to know how to play lauri the "right way"

Maybe it's just lauri not playing well. Just a guess.

Actually Hoibergs offense wasn't bad for lauri so I'm not sure where you are pulling the 3 coaches. Boylen changed the scheme for last year and this year started off good until someone decided that Lauri should be just a 3 point shooter just like they played him with Boylen. His FGA went down by 4 on 2019-20. And stayed the same this year now that he has been shooting less since the trade. He was shooting more before he got hurt for and after that he was just relegated to 3 point shooter and then to bench.

Extra trivia question, how did Lavine go from 16p average to 23 point average, FGA went from 15->18. Lavine went from 23 to 25 with 20 FGA. This year its still the same around 20 shots but he is bit more efficient and shoots slightly more and better on 3 ball.

[DASMACKDOWN]

I will be legit pissed off if Lauri is scoring 20 plus points consistently next year for a team that has integrated him properly and hid his weaknesses.

So far Gafford and Wendell have looked tons better. So it wouldnt surprise me.

[WindyCityBorn]

BD is playing Lauri the same way Boylen was playing, the same way when Lauri expressed his lack of desire to be in the Bulls. Lauri was only willing to talk about the extension because of the new management. But obviously the management didn't change anything since they are playing Lauri exactly the same way Boylen did, 3 point shooter who spreads the floor.

3 different coaches and nobody seems to know how to play lauri the "right way"

Maybe it's just lauri not playing well. Just a guess.

Actually Hoibergs offense wasn't bad for lauri so I'm not sure where you are pulling the 3 coaches. Boylen changed the scheme for last year and this year started off good until someone decided that Lauri should be just a 3 point shooter just like they played him with Boylen. His FGA went down by 4 on 2019-20. And stayed the same this year now that he has been shooting less since the trade. He was shooting more before he got hurt for and after that he was just relegated to 3 point shooter and then to bench.

Extra trivia question, how did Lavine go from 16p average to 23 point average, FGA went from 15->18. Lavine went from 23 to 25 with 20 FGA. This year its still the same around 20 shots but he is bit more efficient and shoots slightly more and better on 3 ball.

High volume while not being able to create your own shot is not a common thing.

[TheGOATRises007]

He checked out a long time ago.

When Butler felt hard-done by the FA offer, he bet on himself and balled during the season and proved GarPax wrong.

Lauri is going out with a whimper.

[FranchisePlayer]

Game 1 of the return of "febulauri"

3pts, 1-7 from the field, 1-6 from 3 with 5 rebs in 21 minutes.

I'm sure this is everyone else's fault as well smh.

BD is playing Lauri the same way Boylen was playing, the same way when Lauri expressed his lack of desire to be in the Bulls. Lauri was only willing to talk about the extension because of the new management. But obviously the management didn't change anything since they are playing Lauri exactly the same way Boylen did, 3 point shooter who spreads the floor.

3 different coaches and nobody seems to know how to play lauri the "right way"

Maybe it's just lauri not playing well. Just a guess.

Maybe Pop has an idea how to play him since the Spurs have already decided to go after him.

Your pure guess might be right or wrong. I'm more intrigued WHY he's playing like this.

Unless one is a big time Lauri hater who enjoys any chance to come here and ridicule Markkanen in the most imaginable or the repetitive ways, it should be crystal clear he's now playing way, way below his true potential.

Some have speculated he's mailing it in and while on the surface that doesn't sound a very professional thing to do, I'm inclined to think similarly. I'd venture and guess they've had discussions about his future here and the result of those meetings have let him to feel disappointed if not with a very sour taste in his mouth.

It's his contract year so it'd be strange from him to call it a season but he's no robot and like any other person, he'll make many decisions every year which he'll regret later on. We'll see if this is one of them. OR does his agent already have something up his sleeve...

[TallDude]

Im glad that Wendell had better team. I wonder what Vuc is really thinking. As for Lauri im only worried that he will go another bad team but what i know he will be at playoff next season. Mostly rumors but pretty close to Lauri. His former coach opinion.

[ZOMG]

BD is playing Lauri the same way Boylen was playing, the same way when Lauri expressed his lack of desire to be in the Bulls. Lauri was only willing to talk about the extension because of the new management. But obviously the management didn't change anything since they are playing Lauri exactly the same way Boylen did, 3 point shooter who spreads the floor.

3 different coaches and nobody seems to know how to play lauri the "right way"

Maybe it's just lauri not playing well. Just a guess.

Maybe Pop has an idea how to play him since the Spurs have already decided to go after him.

Your pure guess might be right or wrong. I'm more intrigued WHY he's playing like this.

Unless one is a big time Lauri hater who enjoys any chance to come here and ridicule Markkanen in the most imaginable or the repetitive ways, it should be crystal clear he's now playing way, way below his true potential.

Some have speculated he's mailing it in and while on the surface that doesn't sound a very professional thing to do, I'm inclined to think similarly. I'd venture and guess they've had discussions about his future here and the result of those meetings have let him to feel disappointed if not with a very sour taste in his mouth.

It's his contract year so it'd be strange from him to call it a season but he's no robot and like any other person, he'll make many decisions every year which he'll regret later on. We'll see if this is one of them. OR does his agent already have something up his sleeve...

It's very unusual for an NBA team to throw a starter under the bus in their contract year. It's almost an unwritten rule that you don't do that, and anyone who thinks potential free agents don't notice these things is being naive.

Sure your playing time may fluctuate even if you're an RFA-to-be, but you almost never see guys demoted and embarrassed like this. Of course the narrative you get fron the team's side - including the announcers - is that Lauri just needs to "step up", as if he's in control of his own destiny. They're doing what's best for them, PR wise.

Of course Markkanen has checked out mentally. He has nothing to win in Chicago - at this point, I'm betting he doesn't even want the Bulls to match any offer sheets in the unlikely event that they'd do so. His agent probably has a pretty good idea what teams are going to go after him in the offseason.

[WindyCityBorn]

3 different coaches and nobody seems to know how to play lauri the "right way"

Maybe it's just lauri not playing well. Just a guess.

Maybe Pop has an idea how to play him since the Spurs have already decided to go after him.

Your pure guess might be right or wrong. I'm more intrigued WHY he's playing like this.

Unless one is a big time Lauri hater who enjoys any chance to come here and ridicule Markkanen in the most imaginable or the repetitive ways, it should be crystal clear he's now playing way, way below his true potential.

Some have speculated he's mailing it in and while on the surface that doesn't sound a very professional thing to do, I'm inclined to think similarly. I'd venture and guess they've had discussions about his future here and the result of those meetings have let him to feel disappointed if not with a very sour taste in his mouth.

It's his contract year so it'd be strange from him to call it a season but he's no robot and like any other person, he'll make many decisions every year which he'll regret later on. We'll see if this is one of them. OR does his agent already have something up his sleeve...

It's very unusual for an NBA team to throw a starter under the bus in their contract year. It's almost an unwritten rule that you don't do that, and anyone who thinks potential free agents don't notice these things is being naive.

Sure your playing time may fluctuate even if you're an RFA-to-be, but you almost never see guys demoted and embarrassed like this. Of course the narrative you get fron the team's side - including the announcers - is that Lauri just needs to "step up", as if he's in control of his own destiny. They're doing what's best for them, PR wise.

Of course Markkanen has checked out mentally. He has nothing to win in Chicago - at this point, I'm betting he doesn't even want the Bulls to match any offer sheets in the unlikely event that they'd do so. His agent probably has a pretty good idea what teams are going to go after him in the offseason.

He is our 4th best big so how much more does deserve to play!

[coldfish]

BD is playing Lauri the same way Boylen was playing, the same way when Lauri expressed his lack of desire to be in the Bulls. Lauri was only willing to talk about the extension because of the new management. But obviously the management didn't change anything since they are playing Lauri exactly the same way Boylen did, 3 point shooter who spreads the floor.

3 different coaches and nobody seems to know how to play lauri the "right way"

Maybe it's just lauri not playing well. Just a guess.

Actually Hoibergs offense wasn't bad for lauri so I'm not sure where you are pulling the 3 coaches. Boylen changed the scheme for last year and this year started off good until someone decided that Lauri should be just a 3 point shooter just like they played him with Boylen. His FGA went down by 4 on 2019-20. And stayed the same this year now that he has been shooting less since the trade. He was shooting more before he got hurt for and after that he was just relegated to 3 point shooter and then to bench.

Extra trivia question, how did Lavine go from 16p average to 23 point average, FGA went from 15->18. Lavine went from 23 to 25 with 20 FGA. This year its still the same around 20 shots but he is bit more efficient and shoots slightly more and better on 3 ball.

Per 36 by season:
1: 15.4fga 18.4p 9.1r 1.4a 15.6per
2: 17.0fga 20.8p 10.1r 1.6a 17.1per
3: 14.3fga 17.8p 7.6r 1.8a 14.3per
4: 14.5fga 19.3p 7.2r 1.3a 15.1per

Lauri is basically the same guy through his entire career here. He has got several different roles in the offense and defense and basically does the same thing every time, which forces coaches to put him in the role he works the best: Off ball shooter you have to cover on defense.

Wherever he goes next, I'm sure he will have this same pattern and when he has his hot games and hot streaks, I'm sure we will hear about it but I think just about everyone sees the writing on the wall.

[Bullflip]

They play Lauri the way they do because he doesn’t know how to post up. So they play him as a stretch big. Lauri also cannot create off the dribble either. The only way he can score is through a 3 pointer or being a cutter. To be a cutter however, you have to be physical or quick. There are a few times that Lauri is aggressive and he has had success cutting to the hole but that is rare. He seems to be fine launching 3s from the outside. Opposing coaches usually put a quicker guy on him to prevent him from cutting to close the lanes because they know that Lauri won’t be able to body them up anyways

[Pentele]

Did not watch, but the box score shows he stunk.

Funny. The usual complaint has been "I do not care if Lauri is shooting bad, we know he can shoot. But he had only X rebounds and Y assists; when his shot is not falling, he is not contributing in any other way".

Lauri had 5 rebounds, 4 assists and 0 turnovers in 21 minutes (for those who check the level of contribution from the stats).

I guess people care about the points scored and efficiency after all.

[Wingy]

No meanie Zach Bot. Lauri still happy to sit outside, and toss treys. As someone hoping to resuscitate his trade value, and who has hope in his longer term prospects, he’s disappointing and happy to float outside yet again.

Like Wendell, he has potential to be better, but he’s never going to “get it” here. He needs the pushed out to a new team wake up call.

[LateNight]

I will be legit pissed off if Lauri is scoring 20 plus points consistently next year for a team that has integrated him properly and hid his weaknesses.

So far Gafford and Wendell have looked tons better. So it wouldnt surprise me.

That very well might happen - but part of the issue is just that you can't hide the weaknesses from 10 guys at once.

[Ice Man]

Lauri is basically the same guy through his entire career here.

For the most part, players are players, regardless of their teammates or coaches. The importance of the latter two are highly overrated; they become scapegoats when players don't live up to fans' expectations. But usually, that is just who the player is.

Of course there are exceptions, such as Thad under Boylen. And I do think Lauri will improve from his current level when he leaves the Bulls. But his current level, meaning how he has played recently, is the worst of his career, so an improvement wouldn't really be his new team and coach making him better, but instead helping him return to his natural level of play.

[Neonblazer]

3 different coaches and nobody seems to know how to play lauri the "right way"

Maybe it's just lauri not playing well. Just a guess.

Actually Hoibergs offense wasn't bad for lauri so I'm not sure where you are pulling the 3 coaches. Boylen changed the scheme for last year and this year started off good until someone decided that Lauri should be just a 3 point shooter just like they played him with Boylen. His FGA went down by 4 on 2019-20. And stayed the same this year now that he has been shooting less since the trade. He was shooting more before he got hurt for and after that he was just relegated to 3 point shooter and then to bench.

Extra trivia question, how did Lavine go from 16p average to 23 point average, FGA went from 15->18. Lavine went from 23 to 25 with 20 FGA. This year its still the same around 20 shots but he is bit more efficient and shoots slightly more and better on 3 ball.

Per 36 by season:
1: 15.4fga 18.4p 9.1r 1.4a 15.6per
2: 17.0fga 20.8p 10.1r 1.6a 17.1per
3: 14.3fga 17.8p 7.6r 1.8a 14.3per
4: 14.5fga 19.3p 7.2r 1.3a 15.1per

Lauri is basically the same guy through his entire career here. He has got several different roles in the offense and defense and basically does the same thing every time, which forces coaches to put him in the role he works the best: Off ball shooter you have to cover on defense.

Wherever he goes next, I'm sure he will have this same pattern and when he has his hot games and hot streaks, I'm sure we will hear about it but I think just about everyone sees the writing on the wall.

So you are seriously trying to say that nothing happened between 2 and 3 year? Or are you trying to say that what happened in the 2 year was just fluke and he regressed third year. Because you would have to be blind if you did not notice how differently Boylen ran offense compared to Hoiberg.

[sami71]

I just can't wait for him to be out of town. Not that I hate the man, but people complaining about Lauri fans or stans are about 10x more vocal and 100x more annoying than the actual (about three) fans and the (one) stan. If or not he does better on the next team, I could not care less. Donovan demoted and humiliated him publically and he has checked out. He is a non entity in the Bulls. Sooner he is gone the better.

[coldfish]

Actually Hoibergs offense wasn't bad for lauri so I'm not sure where you are pulling the 3 coaches. Boylen changed the scheme for last year and this year started off good until someone decided that Lauri should be just a 3 point shooter just like they played him with Boylen. His FGA went down by 4 on 2019-20. And stayed the same this year now that he has been shooting less since the trade. He was shooting more before he got hurt for and after that he was just relegated to 3 point shooter and then to bench.

Extra trivia question, how did Lavine go from 16p average to 23 point average, FGA went from 15->18. Lavine went from 23 to 25 with 20 FGA. This year its still the same around 20 shots but he is bit more efficient and shoots slightly more and better on 3 ball.

Per 36 by season:
1: 15.4fga 18.4p 9.1r 1.4a 15.6per
2: 17.0fga 20.8p 10.1r 1.6a 17.1per
3: 14.3fga 17.8p 7.6r 1.8a 14.3per
4: 14.5fga 19.3p 7.2r 1.3a 15.1per

Lauri is basically the same guy through his entire career here. He has got several different roles in the offense and defense and basically does the same thing every time, which forces coaches to put him in the role he works the best: Off ball shooter you have to cover on defense.

Wherever he goes next, I'm sure he will have this same pattern and when he has his hot games and hot streaks, I'm sure we will hear about it but I think just about everyone sees the writing on the wall.

So you are seriously trying to say that nothing happened between 2 and 3 year? Or are you trying to say that what happened in the 2 year was just fluke and he regressed third year. Because you would have to be blind if you did not notice how differently Boylen ran offense compared to Hoiberg.

Of course the offenses are different. There have been countless different iterations since Lauri has been in Chicago. It really hasn't changed who he is as a player though. He is an off ball shooter who really isn't fast enough or have a quick enough release to regularly run him off screens.

The offense he is going to do the best in is the offense that BD ran earlier this year. That was better for Lauri than Hoiberg because there were several plays specifically for Lauri. The ball moved and Lauri got to drift around and cut. In general, it was better overall than Hoiberg because you had that high post center that you could switch the ball from side to side through and hit cutters.

Regardless, off ball shooters have some value in the NBA but its limited. Any time a team wants to shut them down, they can. That opens things up for others but you just can't choose to get them a high number of shots because you can't just throw them the ball on the perimeter or the post and have them get a shot.

I think Lauri will have a fine career in the right situation. A motion type offense OR an offense with a Doncic/Lebron type creator would work fine. You just need someone to cover for him defensively. IMO, he is about to get wildly overpaid though. He is going to get 3rd man type money to be a 5th/6th man. The defense and the pay are going to be why it isn't in Chicago.

[Neonblazer]

The defense and the pay are going to be why it isn't in Chicago.

This part is kinda funny considering Bulls just traded for Vuc.

[Pentele]

Per 36 by season:
1: 15.4fga 18.4p 9.1r 1.4a 15.6per
2: 17.0fga 20.8p 10.1r 1.6a 17.1per
3: 14.3fga 17.8p 7.6r 1.8a 14.3per
4: 14.5fga 19.3p 7.2r 1.3a 15.1per

Lauri is basically the same guy through his entire career here. He has got several different roles in the offense and defense and basically does the same thing every time, which forces coaches to put him in the role he works the best: Off ball shooter you have to cover on defense.

Wherever he goes next, I'm sure he will have this same pattern and when he has his hot games and hot streaks, I'm sure we will hear about it but I think just about everyone sees the writing on the wall.

So you are seriously trying to say that nothing happened between 2 and 3 year? Or are you trying to say that what happened in the 2 year was just fluke and he regressed third year. Because you would have to be blind if you did not notice how differently Boylen ran offense compared to Hoiberg.

Of course the offenses are different. There have been countless different iterations since Lauri has been in Chicago. It really hasn't changed who he is as a player though. He is an off ball shooter who really isn't fast enough or have a quick enough release to regularly run him off screens.

The offense he is going to do the best in is the offense that BD ran earlier this year. That was better for Lauri than Hoiberg because there were several plays specifically for Lauri. The ball moved and Lauri got to drift around and cut. In general, it was better overall than Hoiberg because you had that high post center that you could switch the ball from side to side through and hit cutters.

Regardless, off ball shooters have some value in the NBA but its limited. Any time a team wants to shut them down, they can. That opens things up for others but you just can't choose to get them a high number of shots because you can't just throw them the ball on the perimeter or the post and have them get a shot.

I think Lauri will have a fine career in the right situation. A motion type offense OR an offense with a Doncic/Lebron type creator would work fine. You just need someone to cover for him defensively. IMO, he is about to get wildly overpaid though. He is going to get 3rd man type money to be a 5th/6th man. The defense and the pay are going to be why it isn't in Chicago.

I think that seems right at least for the moment. Maybe someone is going to unlock additional tools that Lauri has either been unwilling or somehow restricted in using so far, maybe that is not going to happen ever. But I think Lauri has taken significant steps defensively this year, even during this recent awful period both team-wise and Lauri-wise. I do not see why he could not continue developing on that front even if you could be completely right about Lauri's type as an offensive player.

What is abundantly clear, though, is that there are not enough strictly basketball related reasons for Lauri to stay in the Bulls, from his perspective or from the team's perspective. If someone, in general, wants to have a conversation about Lauri's future in some other hypothetical team like the Spurs, or speculate about his price tag given that his stock is arguably going down (how it could not after the super efficient start with the recent developments?), I am happy to have that conversation. Btw, I think there is currently little reason to think that Lauri would get 15+. Could even be significantly lower number. Even if some other FO would assess Lauri's worth as higher, the general perception is tied to expectations what other teams are willing to offer, and that affects what one starts offering. But I leave that to the millionaires themselves to be concerned about, I am personally not that interested in what a player commands on the market, even if it has undeniable significance in terms of roster building.

I think I am also personally done responding to posts (and I am not referring to the one I just quoted) that either directly say or otherwise imply that Lauri's current contributions in the Bulls somehow accurately reflect the player he has been all along etc. That is so intellectually dishonest way of looking at the matter that I have not stomach for that, or for similar comments. Now that I say this, perhaps I will become irritated at some point and respond. That can happen because I would still like to follow and participate in discussions here concerning my favorite team (like with so many others, 90s Bulls were the reason I even started playing basketball). I do not really get pitting players of the same team against each other, and I certainly do not care about pitting groups of fans against each other. In my mind the latter is a character flaw, but that is just me.