Randle vs. Porzingis

[blueNorange]

I was a fan of Porzingis earlier in his career before realizing he was a knucklehead. Randle easily would be my choice.

oh right i totally forgot kp is a trash human being in addition to being damaged goods.

[Pelly24]

Randle, easily.

[DaGawd]

Porzingis is a shell of what he was as a prospect

[Riot Randolph]

Knicks are Knicks. Nobody leads Knicks to the playoffs. Franchise that spent most money on tax and got least wins out of that tax. Mavs on the other hand organization that spent second most money on tax and I think has second or third best record in last 15-20 years.

There is no light at the end of the tunnel for the Knicks, I'm afraid. Their fans are still not interested about winning it all. If they were interested, they would boycott Knicks games for a long time now. But no, they prefer talking crap about which one of their players is better than some other player.

Expert take right here...

[Riot Randolph]

This is comical. There's no debate. Just let it go. It's over. He's not comming back. Stop with the hate. Your front office blew it. Move on. Next it will be Rivers x Doncic. C'mon.

Yeah case closed!

[aguiar95]

This is comical. There's no debate. Just let it go. It's over. He's not comming back. Stop with the hate. Your front office blew it. Move on. Next it will be Rivers x Doncic. C'mon.

Yeah case closed!

Again, let it go. Still taking KP, can't believe y'all gave him to us for cap (which led to nothing) and two 20's pick.

[dakomish23]

Most people would rather have Porzingis on their team, and that's a fair take. But I think it's worth pointing out that Randle (who came to NY through cap space freed up by the Porzingis trade, I believe) is only 9 months older than KP; has played in every game at an average of 37 mpg; and is averaging almost 23, 11, and 7. Probably playing better D than earlier in his career too.

The Knicks didn't sign KD and Kyrie; DSJ hasn't been good so far; the Mavs' picks the Knicks will receive likely will not be lottery picks; but think I think Randle's play makes the KP trade look a little better in retrospect and once again proves my theory that Frank Isola is always wrong:

Read on Twitter

Not sure it’s been mentioned somewhere else but the Knicks had the cap space to sign him before the KP deal. Part of them not extending him was supposed to go in FA and get some help.

The question is would the Knicks have still signed Randle if they kept KP. I would have but I wanted them together for years (I still think they’d be great together). Who knows what the organization was thinking.

[UcanUwill]

This is comical. There's no debate. Just let it go. It's over. He's not comming back. Stop with the hate. Your front office blew it. Move on. Next it will be Rivers x Doncic. C'mon.

Yeah case closed!

Again, let it go. Still taking KP, can't believe y'all gave him to us for cap (which led to nothing) and two 20's pick.

Man, tables have completely turned on you. KP would be Rivers in Rivers x Doncic debate and you know it.

[DaGawd]

This is comical. There's no debate. Just let it go. It's over. He's not comming back. Stop with the hate. Your front office blew it. Move on. Next it will be Rivers x Doncic. C'mon.

Yeah case closed!

Again, let it go. Still taking KP, can't believe y'all gave him to us for cap (which led to nothing) and two 20's pick.

Can’t tell if serious

[Scalabrine]

6 months ago second most hated person in NY after KP,and now hes god
Delusional fan base

The dude has worked his ass off and totally reinvented himself. It would be way more delusional to keep hating him just because we did 6 months ago, dont you think?

[Dupp]

Im sure i would have laughed at picking randle earlier itt but obviously its him. Dudes way better than i thought he could be.

[pacers33]

Randle and Thibs fit well together. Everyone thought they had them figured out completely. If it was up to the sports media, Fizdale would still be coach of that team. With Randle, they called an audible on his potential too early.

[aguiar95]

Yeah case closed!

Again, let it go. Still taking KP, can't believe y'all gave him to us for cap (which led to nothing) and two 20's pick.

Man, tables have completely turned on you. KP would be Rivers in Rivers x Doncic debate and you know it.

Siakam would be Rivers. Don't let the media/toxic fanbase fool you. If you want rings, KP > Randle.

[Scalabrine]

[

Eh, y’all didn’t give up too much for him at least. DSJ is a bust and the two picks are likely late first rounders. If anything was a win I’m just glad he’s maxed out for years down there instead of here

This ignores the $50M in future money Dallas took on. Dallas was poised to have like $80M in cap space the summer after that trade but sacrificed most of it to pay THJ and Lee and of course KP's sizable cap hold.

Meanwhile the Knicks suddenly had all the cap space. Assets are more than just picks/prospects. The money Dallas took on was the biggest part of the value so we can't ignore it.

Absolutely can't ignore that. It's a huge point.

We've talked about it before, but they are pretty much stuck with what they have now and will have pretty much wasted the years that Doncic was the most underpaid player in the league. Where do they even go from here? Would you rather them renounce THj, Richardson, JJ, Melli and see what they can do with the 25ish million they'll have in capspace, or would you rather make a play to bring those guys back?

Do you remember what the actual cap numbers were, had they not taken on the salary of THj and Lee + maxing out KP before he played a game? Would they have actually had max space??

[RoxSteady]

Most people would rather have Porzingis on their team, and that's a fair take. But I think it's worth pointing out that Randle (who came to NY through cap space freed up by the Porzingis trade, I believe) is only 9 months older than KP; has played in every game at an average of 37 mpg; and is averaging almost 23, 11, and 7. Probably playing better D than earlier in his career too.

The Knicks didn't sign KD and Kyrie; DSJ hasn't been good so far; the Mavs' picks the Knicks will receive likely will not be lottery picks; but think I think Randle's play makes the KP trade look a little better in retrospect and once again proves my theory that Frank Isola is always wrong:

Read on Twitter

Not sure it’s been mentioned somewhere else but the Knicks had the cap space to sign him before the KP deal. Part of them not extending him was supposed to go in FA and get some help.

The question is would the Knicks have still signed Randle if they kept KP. I would have but I wanted them together for years (I still think they’d be great together). Who knows what the organization was thinking.

Interesting. What exactly would have been their cap situation had they retained KP? Don't forget that they were also able to sign Marcus Morris, who they flipped for a first rounder.

[Zenzibar]

Starting to really, really like the person Julius Randle:


https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/reputation-julius-randle-new-york-knicks-basketball-nba
Players Tribune

Reputation

[spoiler]By Julius Randle March 4th


Reputations are funny things, man.

When I signed with the Knicks two summers ago, I was hype. Actually, I was beyond hype: I’ve had doubters for my entire career — and New York’s front office basically told me to brush those people off to the side. They said, We see you, we believe in you, we want you to be our guy. And here’s a big-time deal to back it up.

Them having that type of faith in me.... it meant everything.

But it also left me with something to prove, you know?? I had this whole new role now — and this whole new contract to live up to.

And when the season rolled around, I think I just went out there with those types of thoughts running through my mind. They’re expecting you to get your 25-to-30 tonight. That’s your JOB. So go and do your job. Stuff like that. I’m not a selfish player — never been a selfish player in my life. Always been about the team. But I had it in my head that for this team, in this situation, they were paying me a lot of money because they wanted me to get a lot of shots up.

It didn’t turn out so well.

For one, to be honest, I don’t think I realized everything that goes into being a #1 option in the NBA. You’re the head of the snake, and that’s not just some tough talk. That really means something. It means the other team’s defense is dialed in with an actual game-plan to stop you. It means there’s pressure on you, every play, to figure out how to get to your spot on the court. It means if you don’t execute like you’re supposed to, it’s not just a bad individual night — it’s probably a loss as well. There’s so many little things that come with a big role like that.... and I don’t know if I was ready for all of them.

And then another problem, looking back, is that I think I was so focused on proving myself as a #1 option, that I lost sight of some of my other responsibilities to the team. For example, I was supposed to be one of our leaders — someone who could help establish what our identity was as a group, and who could set an example of what it took to be a winning player in this league. Someone who could not only play at a high level, but who could also raise the level of those around him. As much as the team needed my scoring last year.... they might have needed my leadership even more. And I didn’t give it to them.

I think it was just a frustrating season — it wore on guys a lot.
And it showed.

As a matter of fact, here’s how I know it showed: My son, Kyden, he’s four years old.... and he watches every move I make on the court. Dude watches me like a hawk, for real. And then what happens is, we’ll be back at home playing one-on-one on his little plastic hoop (my wife, Kendra, is the ref) — and he’ll start imitating what he’s seen me get up to in my games. So like when I had a big dunk against some team and then flexed after, next time we played one-on-one, Kyden started doing that. He hit us with the kiddie flex.

But then one day, last season, we’re home playing with Kyden on his hoop, and he got a bucket (kid is already nice) — only I gave him a little love-tap on the play. A little veteran contact. And y’all I swear: he turns around, he looks at his mom the ref, and.... he starts giving her The Look.
What look?



That look.

He gives his mom that "are you kidding me" face, throws his arms up in the air, and then starts in on her — you know, like: No call?!? Where’s the call?!?

And we’re cracking up, of course — we’re like, “Oh my goodness. Where’d he learn that??!?!?” It’s so funny.

But it’s also like….. Oh, damn. He got that from me. That’s how negative I’ve been looking on the court these days. And in all seriousness, I think I realized, like, O.K. — if I’m making that kind of impression on Kyden, what kind of impression might I be making to all these other younger fans watching me??

Man, I hated that thought.

I know you only get one chance to make a first impression in a city — and I was so disappointed in myself for how that first season in New York had gone. It felt like a blown opportunity. It felt like I'd cemented my reputation in the opposite way that I’d wanted to. Selfish. Not a leader. Not a winning player. I heard all of it, and I couldn’t say a thing about it.

And I knew that if I wanted to shake off the reputation I’d built up, I really only had one option: to come out this season and establish a new one.

That meant rounding out my game. I worked on expanding the range of my jumper, to stretch the floor from three like you’re seeing from a lot of elite bigs. I worked on my playmaking and versatility, so that I could play more minutes at more spots on the court — power forward, point forward, center, whatever it takes. I worked on my conditioning, to make sure I was ready for a full season.... plus a playoff run. Maybe it sounds corny, but I worked on becoming the player I’ve always felt like I could be. My best self.

But I also knew that shedding last year’s rep — it was about a lot more than just being the best possible individual player. It was about this entire Knicks team finding its best self. So with that in mind, I started thinking to myself, you know.... what are the things that my vets did for me, that helped me raise my level, that I can do for our group of young guys?

First thing I did was I started showing guys the value of watching tape, and the way to build all these good habits out of that. That was a lesson I learned from Isaiah Thomas, when IT and I were both with the Lakers. It was only about half a season together, but sometimes that’s all you need with a dude as knowledgeable as Isaiah. For real, that’s one of the best hoop minds I’ve ever been around. And probably the biggest lesson he taught me was how, watching tape, prepping for a new opponent’s tendencies each night, looking at the game under that microscope — it’s not bonus work. It’s not optional. It’s elemental. It’s part of any great player’s process.



And then another thing I’ve been doing this season is — actually, hold up.

Gotta tell y’all a quick story.

Alright, so everyone knows how I had to sit out my rookie year with an injury. But one of the consequences of missing that year is how it delayed all these NBA “firsts.” All these different little dreams you had since you were a kid, about making it to the league — that all gets put on pause for a season. And meanwhile you’re sitting there courtside, in street clothes, watching it happen. It’s like you’re so close to it but so far away. It’s tough, man.

And then what happens that next season, is you’re almost making up for lost time. It’s like it’s all that stuff you’ve been dreaming about.... but now with a whole other year of having built it up in your head.

One of the biggest things for me that I was looking forward to, I think it’s one of the things a lot of guys look forward to when they get to the league. It’s playing that first game on the road in the city where you came up. It’s like a whole homecoming vibe: I went to grade school here — now I’m coming back and I’m an NBA player?! That’s a wild feeling.

I grew up in Dallas, so I had this early-season road game against the Mavericks circled on my calendar. I was excited. Excited to feel that sense of accomplishment, of being that kid from your neighborhood growing up who made it to the league.

We flew in after a Wednesday night game, and the Mavs game wasn’t until Friday late, which meant we had an off day in Dallas. So guys were definitely going out that night. Me, I’ve got family, I’ve got a bunch of friends texting and whatnot, with this plan and that plan. Y’all have to keep in mind I’m 20 years old at this time. You can imagine where my head is at.

So then we get off the plane, we ride to the hotel, and — ha. Wow. I will never forget this. We’re coming up on the hotel in Dallas, and Kobe turns to me and he goes, “Julius, what you bout to do.”

I’m like, “I’m about to see my family, chill with some friends, you know. Have a night.”

And Kobe, he just cuts me off. He’s like, “Nah. We’re going to the gym.”

Bro....

I mean, that right there, it’s just the power of Kobe. If anyone else in the world had said that to me, in that moment, I might have hit ’em with an eye roll and went on with my business. But when Mamba is telling you that it’s a change of plans, and you’re coming with him to the gym tonight? You don’t ask questions. You just do as you’re told.

And of course Kobe knew we were in my hometown. Of course he knew. But that wasn’t him being a bad dude or anything. It was more like — it was him trying to use the situation to teach me a lesson. The lesson being: To get to the next level in this league, you can’t be putting in that next level of work only some of the time. Has to be all of the time. No such thing as sacrifice without sacrifice.



That was November 2015, Kobe’s last season. And from then on, everything he showed me that night, straight up: it’s become my routine. If we’re on a road trip, as soon as we get off the plane, there you go, that’s my night — before I do anything else. I’m heading to the gym, I’m getting my shots up, I’m putting in my work.

And what’s crazy is.... O.K., here’s the end of the story. So we’re in Detroit last season, on a road trip. And we fly in, I grab my bags, and like I said: it’s been my routine ever since that night in Dallas. Get off the plane, head to the gym. Get off the plane, head to the gym. Get off the plane, head to the gym. Like clockwork. Every city, though, it’s a new situation — there’s different places available. So what I’ll do is, I’ll have the team set up a spot in advance. And that way I can go straight there, however late it is, and get my workout in.

On this particular trip, in Detroit, they had this little high school gym opened up for me. I love gyms like that — simple and old school. And I get to the building, and the guy who was there to let me in, I think he’s the athletic director of that school, we start talking a little bit. And he’s like, “It’s good to see you. Guys don’t really show up here to work out anymore. Matter of fact, the last guy to come in this late to shoot — man, that must have been years ago. It was Kobe.”

Yo.

I mean, just hearing him say the name….. it gave me chills.

This was the month after Kobe had passed — and it was just one of those moments. One of those moments that stays with you. One of those moments that forces you to take a second, and feel humble about how connected everything is.

And I guess how that story connects this season to everything else for me, is like: I think I’ve always known what a blessing it was that I got to be teammates with Kobe for his last two years in the league. But there’s knowing.... and then there’s understanding. And I think this year, for the first time, I’ve really understood why Kobe mentored younger players like me. Not just so we could flourish ourselves, but so we could pass down what we learned to other players as well. I think that’s a huge part of his legacy, especially in those last few years.

And what I love about this season’s Knicks, man, is how we have a group of young guys that’s just ready to GET BETTER like that. It’s a group that’s ready to work. It’s a group that’s trying to soak up knowledge like a sponge. And whereas last year I might have been going off to get my work in on my own — this year, when we land in a city?? Pretty much the whole squad is going to the gym.

It’s funny, I swear. We’ll have Obi asking me 100 questions a day. (I’ll be like, “Obi, leave me alone.”) We’ll have RJ who just never stops grinding. We’ll have Quick, from his first day of training camp, being the last one to leave the court. We’ll have this whole big bus of guys, on that plane-to-gym workout plan, just trying to get those shots up. It’s a cool energy.



More than any team I’ve ever been on, with this year’s Knicks, it feels like we have a collective purpose. And I think that’s also one of the things that Thibs has been great at bringing to the table. This idea of how we can have our goals as individuals, and then our goals as a team.... and if we have the right mindset, there’s no reason those goals can’t feed into each other.

It just feels like something good is happening.

And I guess that’s how I feel about my own season as well. It’s been a lot of hard work paying off: as a shooter, as a passer, as a leader — man, you name it. And on a personal level, like I said.... it’s been a long and winding road.

Hearing my name come up in All Star conversations?? I truly appreciated that.

And then hearing I made the team.... it's an amazing honor.

But at the same time, if I’m telling you my main goals, and what’s been the most satisfying for me this season — it’s where we are in the standings. Now, don’t get me wrong.... it’s not where we want to be yet. It’s not where I’m hoping we can get to over the second half. But if you’re trying to make a change, then you have to start somewhere. And I think this is that start.

I’ve been painting the picture of it to these guys all year. Just the other day I was talking about it with Obi and them. I was like, y’all don’t even realize.... if we can put some wins together here?? Get this thing going for the playoffs?? Get New York popping?? Maybe even there’s crowds by then, and we get the Garden popping?? Y’all don’t even know. There’s not another fan base in the league that can match what these Knicks fans will give us — if we’re taking care of our business.

And that’s what’s been special about this year. I’ve gotten to flip the script on my own reputation as a player, while I’ve also gotten to help with this larger thing we have going — where we’re flipping the script on the reputation of our entire franchise.

Mostly, though, I just wanted to write this to say thank you to everyone who’s been supporting us during a tough time.... and over a strange couple of seasons. We’re building something here, and I’m glad to be a part of it.
I’m grateful for the chance to make a second first impression.
I’m damn proud to be a Knick.

[ChampionRed]

I mean, I understand Mavericks fans want more respect on KP's name but Randle has clearly been the better player. His all around game is what really stands out to me.

I didn't read all 15 pages but did anyone mention Randle's minutes yet?

Randle his having his career year while also playing 40+ minutes a game! I feel like everyone is waiting for him to burnout but he continues to be consistent and productive for the Knicks.

It's super impressive what he's been doing this season and I'm really intrigued to see how far he can take the Knicks.

At the very least, he's done his job in making NY a MUCH more attractive place to play than it has been over the past decade.

[SmoothLefty21]

Absolutely can't ignore that. It's a huge point.

We've talked about it before, but they are pretty much stuck with what they have now and will have pretty much wasted the years that Doncic was the most underpaid player in the league.

I said when the trade happened that the Knicks may be the winner of the deal simply because they avoided sinking $160m into Porzingis. KP is one of the worst contracts in the league and still has three years left on his contract. It'll be interesting to see where DAL goes over the next few seasons.

[Texas Chuck]

[

Eh, y’all didn’t give up too much for him at least. DSJ is a bust and the two picks are likely late first rounders. If anything was a win I’m just glad he’s maxed out for years down there instead of here

This ignores the $50M in future money Dallas took on. Dallas was poised to have like $80M in cap space the summer after that trade but sacrificed most of it to pay THJ and Lee and of course KP's sizable cap hold.

Meanwhile the Knicks suddenly had all the cap space. Assets are more than just picks/prospects. The money Dallas took on was the biggest part of the value so we can't ignore it.

Absolutely can't ignore that. It's a huge point.

We've talked about it before, but they are pretty much stuck with what they have now and will have pretty much wasted the years that Doncic was the most underpaid player in the league. Where do they even go from here? Would you rather them renounce THj, Richardson, JJ, Melli and see what they can do with the 25ish million they'll have in capspace, or would you rather make a play to bring those guys back?

Do you remember what the actual cap numbers were, had they not taken on the salary of THj and Lee + maxing out KP before he played a game? Would they have actually had max space??

They would have had massive space. As much as $85M in space. But definitely enough for 2 max contracts.

As to what they should do now I wanted them to trade some of the big expiring contracts this year for long-term money allowing them to keep one of Richardson or THJ or maybe both if Cuban would foot the bill. Having failed to do that no options feel great. Who can they sign in FA who helps more than Richardson+THJ? Probably nobody realistically. But just running it back and adding someone with the MLE isn't good enough either.

All the options in the short term feel unattractive. So I would just make sure I didn't saddle myself with another potential bad contract. Would rather overpay on 1 or 2 year deals than sign 3 or 4 year deals at more market value. Because once this draft passes, Dallas only owes one 1st. Which means the next disgruntled star who wants out and has coming to play with Luka as one of his desired locales, now Dallas can make the big picks/swaps offer that we've seen teams make to acquire stars.

So maintain flexibility, try and find spots to get good players for nothing. Like if the Hawks match a max on John Collins they probably have to get off the Gallo contract and nobody is giving value and taking on all the money so just offer to take him on. Or Indiana is pretty tight to the tax already without new deals for McDermott or McConnell. Could you pry away an expensive but good player for reasonably cheap to help with a payroll crunch for a team that isn't as good as they hoped? Or does Utah need to move a player to afford Conley next year with Mitchell and Gobert raises kicking in? That sort of opportunity.

But its not a good spot right now for sure. Everything was lined up for Giannis with Jrue and Dipo as logical fallbacks and now Giannis and Jrue are gone and Dipo a terrible risk on top of KP. Donnie Nelson is a creative GM and historically he's done a good job of adding veteran talent without trade assets other than Cuban's wallet, but that really needs to be after the 2nd star is locked up. Unless Luka can just be Dirk where there never is a 2nd star once Nash left but the team contends anyway. Ton to ask though.

[Ritzo]

KP is a top 20 player when healthy but he is made of glass. I was one of those guys who was clowning the Knicks a year ago, I will take Randle over KP at this point.