Randle vs. Porzingis

[UnbelievablyRAW]

Knick fans taking a big W here. I was one of the proponents on the Raps board for trying to trade Lowry for Zingis because I figured he would get injured again and the Mavs would do better to get a second star who actually plays while we enter into a mini rebuild.

Told that would never happen but I don’t think KP’s trade value has been any lower. Dude barely plays and stinks like 40% of the time

I'm confused why a Raps fan would be suggesting a KP for Lowry trade with the belief KP would get hurt again. I get maybe wanting to tank this year, but KP's contract continues on for years after this. That's not a mini-rebuild if you think KP can't be counted on.

As a Mavs fan I suggested this deal as well. But it makes sense for Dallas to get the better player and increase their flexibility in their last off-season before Luka is playing on a supermax.


As to the topic, yeah Knicks fans get to chirp right now. Dallas took a big swing and right now it looks like a miss. Though to be clear if people go back and look at my thoughts at the time of the trade I thought the Knicks got amazing value while the vast majority of Knicks fans hated it at the time. I was still for Dallas doing it because I thought KP's talent was worth it, but I understood they paid a heavy price on a boom/bust player.

If KP got hurt again this season we have no reason to rush him back. Plus we may believe in our medical staff more and may be able to be better rehabilitate him. Even 80% of KP fills a need for Toronto and a high lottery pick (not looking good with how terrible the Bulls have been) this year in a guard and wing heavy draft helps add depth to that position. We would be in good position to be a top seed in the East with a health(ier) Porzingis + high lottery pick and full roster next season. Added bonus is that this tankathon is already helping to develop the guys on our bench and has given OG and Trent more room to be aggressive on offense since half the team is new and doesn't know our system. This year is 100% a wash and I would have been happy to trade Kyle for 2021/22 Porzingis

[Michael Lucky]

Randle is such a bull on offense. Kp hasnt gotten any better. I would take Randle at this point.

[Texas Chuck]

If KP got hurt again this season we have no reason to rush him back. Plus we may believe in our medical staff more and may be able to be better rehabilitate him. Even 80% of KP fills a need for Toronto and a high lottery pick (not looking good with how terrible the Bulls have been) this year in a guard and wing heavy draft helps add depth to that position. We would be in good position to be a top seed in the East with a health(ier) Porzingis + high lottery pick and full roster next season. Added bonus is that this tankathon is already helping to develop the guys on our bench and has given OG and Trent more room to be aggressive on offense since half the team is new and doesn't know our system. This year is 100% a wash and I would have been happy to trade Kyle for 2021/22 Porzingis

Appreciate you illuminating your thinking. And I'm sure every team is going to trust their own medical team over any other and rightfully so, but worth noting that Casey Smith is considered maybe the very best in the business--he's the head trainer for Team USA in addition to the Mavs medical director so I'd be surprised if the Raps were able to unlock better health based on a better staff. I understand the optimism with the season they got out of Kawhi following a season he never played with the Spurs, but I'd suggest caution with regards to KP.

But I love Kyle Lowry and would love for Dallas to pursue him in FA, but not encouraged considering Masai was working with him on a trade to a team he'd be happy with and Dallas wasn't on his short list.

[Sofia]

Again, let it go. Still taking KP, can't believe y'all gave him to us for cap (which led to nothing) and two 20's pick.

Man, tables have completely turned on you. KP would be Rivers in Rivers x Doncic debate and you know it.

Siakam would be Rivers. Don't let the media/toxic fanbase fool you.If you want rings, KP > Randle.

Care to expand on this conclusion?

Keeping in mind the Knicks record this season as lead by Randle is on par with Doncic and KP.

Do you think a pair of Doncic and Randle would not have more wins than Doncic and KP?

[Sixerscan]

Randle is pretty overrated at this point but Porzingis just isn't someone you can have as one of your franchise pillars.

[UnbelievablyRAW]

If KP got hurt again this season we have no reason to rush him back. Plus we may believe in our medical staff more and may be able to be better rehabilitate him. Even 80% of KP fills a need for Toronto and a high lottery pick (not looking good with how terrible the Bulls have been) this year in a guard and wing heavy draft helps add depth to that position. We would be in good position to be a top seed in the East with a health(ier) Porzingis + high lottery pick and full roster next season. Added bonus is that this tankathon is already helping to develop the guys on our bench and has given OG and Trent more room to be aggressive on offense since half the team is new and doesn't know our system. This year is 100% a wash and I would have been happy to trade Kyle for 2021/22 Porzingis

Appreciate you illuminating your thinking. And I'm sure every team is going to trust their own medical team over any other and rightfully so, but worth noting that Casey Smith is considered maybe the very best in the business--he's the head trainer for Team USA in addition to the Mavs medical director so I'd be surprised if the Raps were able to unlock better health based on a better staff. I understand the optimism with the season they got out of Kawhi following a season he never played with the Spurs, but I'd suggest caution with regards to KP.

But I love Kyle Lowry and would love for Dallas to pursue him in FA, but not encouraged considering Masai was working with him on a trade to a team he'd be happy with and Dallas wasn't on his short list.

You also have to factor in that the Mavs have/had higher demands and expectations from Kristaps. He is supposed to be the Robin to Luka's Batman during this period of distant panic of Luka leaving if the Mavs don't stay competitive and win sooner rather than later. He's averaging the same amount of minutes this season (when he plays) as he did preinjury on the Knicks at 32 mins. We could afford to sit him more and "load manage" him because we aren't on that same type of timeline with him. He's only 26, but same age group as OG/Fred/Siakam. Would be perfect

[Zenzibar]

If KP got hurt again this season we have no reason to rush him back. Plus we may believe in our medical staff more and may be able to be better rehabilitate him. Even 80% of KP fills a need for Toronto and a high lottery pick (not looking good with how terrible the Bulls have been) this year in a guard and wing heavy draft helps add depth to that position. We would be in good position to be a top seed in the East with a health(ier) Porzingis + high lottery pick and full roster next season. Added bonus is that this tankathon is already helping to develop the guys on our bench and has given OG and Trent more room to be aggressive on offense since half the team is new and doesn't know our system. This year is 100% a wash and I would have been happy to trade Kyle for 2021/22 Porzingis

Appreciate you illuminating your thinking. And I'm sure every team is going to trust their own medical team over any other and rightfully so, but worth noting that Casey Smith is considered maybe the very best in the business--he's the head trainer for Team USA in addition to the Mavs medical director so I'd be surprised if the Raps were able to unlock better health based on a better staff. I understand the optimism with the season they got out of Kawhi following a season he never played with the Spurs, but I'd suggest caution with regards to KP.

But I love Kyle Lowry and would love for Dallas to pursue him in FA, but not encouraged considering Masai was working with him on a trade to a team he'd be happy with and Dallas wasn't on his short list.

You also have to factor in that the Mavs have/had higher demands and expectations from Kristaps. He is supposed to be the Robin to Luka's Batman during this period of distant panic of Luka leaving if the Mavs don't stay competitive and win sooner rather than later. He's averaging the same amount of minutes this season (when he plays) as he did preinjury on the Knicks at 32 mins. We could afford to sit him more and "load manage" him because we aren't on that same type of timeline with him. He's only 26, but same age group as OG/Fred/Siakam. Would be perfect

KP is more Alfred to Batman, than Robin.

[GeorgeGervin]

KP is a top 20 player when healthy but he is made of glass. I was one of those guys who was clowning the Knicks a year ago, I will take Randle over KP at this point.

I've watched most of the Mavs' game this year and I don't believe KP is a top 20 player when healthy.

Sure he's a great shooter but offensively that's about it. For a star, he can't really create his own shots, he's a disaster when he puts the ball on the floor, he's a bad passer, he's not a very good post player. And his shot selection is suspicious at times, he loves long 3s with 18 seconds on the shot clock way too much.
He's having a career high TS% because he needs someone like Luka to get him open shots.
Defensively he's overrated. Sure he can get a few blocks, but he's pretty bad at covering P&R and he is pretty soft.
And he's averaging 9rpg despite being 7''3.

That said, he's a pretty good player, but not top 20 IMHO.

[reflex35]

It's Randle at this point, but...
Porzingis seems to either not care or always injured and therefore not becoming a better player.

With his talent and without injuries and hard work he should be in MVP conversation by now but it seems that he'll never get there.

[Saint Lazarus]

Knicks fans really wiling out

Randle is fine, but y’all really hate Porzingis lol

[DaGawd]

KP is a top 20 player when healthy but he is made of glass. I was one of those guys who was clowning the Knicks a year ago, I will take Randle over KP at this point.

I've watched most of the Mavs' game this year and I don't believe KP is a top 20 player when healthy.

Sure he's a great shooter but offensively that's about it. For a star, he can't really create his own shots, he's a disaster when he puts the ball on the floor, he's a bad passer, he's not a very good post player. And his shot selection is suspicious at times, he loves long 3s with 18 seconds on the shot clock way too much.
He's having a career high TS% because he needs someone like Luka to get him open shots.
Defensively he's overrated. Sure he can get a few blocks, but he's pretty bad at covering P&R and he is pretty soft.
And he's averaging 9rpg despite being 7''3.

That said, he's a pretty good player, but not too 20 IMHO.

The injuries have robbed him of the special mobility he used to have at his height. He can still sort of move well for a guy his size but it was on another level before the injuries. I don’t think that’s ever coming back in all honesty

[Johnny Firpo]

Now that KP sucks on defense for the most time, Randle is definitely the better player. KP is just likely too tall for being able to move the way he would need to, in order to be really great. He had the potential though, no one can deny that. I remember the kid's rookie game against the Rockets.

https://youtu.be/ugFgTEkE0z0

We were so excited with EVERY Knicks fans. He showed EVERYTHING in this game, a low post game, the wet shot, elite rim protection, very good lateral movement for his size. The sky was the limit for him, and we loved every minute of it, didn't we, Knicks fans? I know I did! It just wasn't meant to happen, unfortunately, and KP will likely be a solid, borderline All-Star, but ultimately not a special player until the end of his career.

[Kampuchea]

Randle is certainly better right now and who you would prefer to have long-term. That said, KP has gotten better after a rough start and may earn a few All Star appearances in the future. I would worry about his injuries but also have hope for him in the future.

Randle is really separating himself by being a facilitator. Six assists a game far exceeds expectations.

[ellobo]

Read on Twitter

KP was traded for Randle!!! Wow, I didn't even knew the Mavs had Randle on their roster. Yeah, that was definitely a mistake to trade Randle for KP.

The tweet never says KP was traded for Randle.

It's just criticizing Porzingis, and part of that criticism is that he got outplayed by Randle. Then it asks if the Mavs won the trade for KP. It never says Randle was a part of that trade.

[Rockazoids]

Randle is pretty overrated at this point but Porzingis just isn't someone you can have as one of your franchise pillars.

How can he be overrated putting up 23/10/6 with 57 TS%? What does he have to do give you 2 BPG & 2 SPG also?

[aguiar95]

Man, tables have completely turned on you. KP would be Rivers in Rivers x Doncic debate and you know it.

Siakam would be Rivers. Don't let the media/toxic fanbase fool you.If you want rings, KP > Randle.

Care to expand on this conclusion?

Keeping in mind the Knicks record this season as lead by Randle is on par with Doncic and KP.

Do you think a pair of Doncic and Randle would not have more wins than Doncic and KP?

They'd have a few more wins due to availability (KP and everyone got caught by surprise on the start of the season).

Knicks are on the East (on the West they'd be battling SAS and GSW for play-ins).

I think everyone agrees you can't win a title with them being a #1 or #2 guy, correct? What would you rather have with your superstar (assuming it's a primary ball handler and playmaker like LeBron/Luka/Harden)?

Think Bosh and Love for example (in their former teams vs with a superstar). Assuming both are healthy, KP doesn't need the ball in his hands to be effective in comparison to Randle so I'd much rather have him than Randle (more touches for my superstar). Don't let his big minutage fool you, the numbers are pretty similar with KP's (per 36) but KP is more efficient/effective (even though he's not having a great season and had to recover from the injury vs Randle having a carreer year).

[Mike lorenzo]

I stay with Bubble KP ... it has the highest ceiling ...
I have the belief that many of KP's struggles this season are side effects, of load management etc ... Lack of chemistry, lack of Rhythm , lack of confidence ...
they even make him play differently, take him away from the paint, not receive contact ... (The Mavs' priority is to keep him healthy, whatever.)
Have an offseason, to train, etc ... (the last few years it has been recovering sessions) ... it is improving little by little and I suppose that for the Playoff it is scheduled to reach 100% ...

[Sixerscan]

Randle is pretty overrated at this point but Porzingis just isn't someone you can have as one of your franchise pillars.

How can he be overrated putting up 23/10/6 with 57 TS%? What does he have to do give you 2 BPG & 2 SPG also?

Well for one he plays for the Knicks and anytime someone plays competently for them they get way too much hype (see: Porzingis) for another Thibs is playing him a crazy amount of minutes which inflates his numbers.

He’s not even averaging the most points or rebounds per minute or highest ts% of his career. But he did that for the Pelicans playing the amount of minutes he should be playing so no one cared.

I’m not saying he’s a bad player but those are classic hallmarks of someone being overrated. The Knicks have a bad offense and Randle plays a huge role in that.

[TheGreenArrow]

Randle is pretty overrated at this point but Porzingis just isn't someone you can have as one of your franchise pillars.

How can he be overrated putting up 23/10/6 with 57 TS%? What does he have to do give you 2 BPG & 2 SPG also?

Well for one he plays for the Knicks and anytime someone plays competently for them they get way too much hype (see: Porzingis) for another Thibs is playing him a crazy amount of minutes which inflates his numbers.

He’s not even averaging the most points or rebounds per minute or highest ts% of his career. But he did that for the Pelicans playing the amount of minutes he should be playing so no one cared.

I’m not saying he’s a bad player but those are classic hallmarks of someone being overrated. The Knicks have a bad offense and Randle plays a huge role in that.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Randle is pretty overrated at this point but Porzingis just isn't someone you can have as one of your franchise pillars.

How can he be overrated putting up 23/10/6 with 57 TS%? What does he have to do give you 2 BPG & 2 SPG also?

Well for one he plays for the Knicks and anytime someone plays competently for them they get way too much hype (see: Porzingis) for another Thibs is playing him a crazy amount of minutes which inflates his numbers.

He’s not even averaging the most points or rebounds per minute or highest ts% of his career. But he did that for the Pelicans playing the amount of minutes he should be playing so no one cared.

I’m not saying he’s a bad player but those are classic hallmarks of someone being overrated. The Knicks have a bad offense and Randle plays a huge role in that.

Does Randle play a role in making the offense bad or making a terrible offense slightly better? The one guy producing on the team isn't the reason the team is bad at offense.