Woj: Gafford & Hutchison to Washington for Troy Brown & Mo Wagner

[DuckIII]

Thanks for Gafford, guys. He has been absolutely fantastic in Washington. His rim protection is legit. His offense is limited, but he is a willing rim runner and Westbrook has been feeding him a steady diet of alley-oops. He is looking like the starter of the future for us.

He is averaging 24 points, 11.3 boards and 3.8 blocks and 1.7 steals per 36 minutes with a TS% of .681 and an on/off differential of +9.3. I'm sure he'll come back down to Earth at some point, but if he even gives us 80% of that production going forward, he's an above average starting center.

Rub it in. But we deserve it. I was begging for him to get more minutes here. He had 2 really bad games when forced into starting and most people started calling him trash. The coach took him out of the rotation completely (our coach is an idiot). Our fan base has no clue what we have until it's gone.

Instead we fawn over Coby White and Chandler Hutchison.

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I am rubbing it in, but only a little bit . I also figured that there were some Gafford fans who would like to know he is doing well in DC.

Not many. But you drew out a few.

Regardless, Gafford was a good dude and easy for all of us to root for even on another team. I’m not surprised he’s doing better on a team with a real point guard. He was a poor fit in Chicago.

[TeamMan]

Rub it in. But we deserve it. I was begging for him to get more minutes here. He had 2 really bad games when forced into starting and most people started calling him trash. The coach took him out of the rotation completely (our coach is an idiot). Our fan base has no clue what we have until it's gone.

Instead we fawn over Coby White and Chandler Hutchison.

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I am rubbing it in, but only a little bit . I also figured that there were some Gafford fans who would like to know he is doing well in DC.

Not many. But you drew out a few.

Regardless, Gafford was a good dude and easy for all of us to root for even on another team. I’m not surprised he’s doing better on a team with a real point guard. He was a poor fit in Chicago.

The FO wanted to move Hutch and Gafford was part of the deal.

It's not clear what happened with Hutch, but he wasn't playing at all. Looks like he'd asked for a trade.

End effect is that we got Theis, and he's still working his way into PT. So, it's too early to tell what the benefit of the trade was for the Bulls.

Brown also looks like he has a future with the team.

[Wingy]

The Gafford love fest is nice, and I’m happy for him, but let’s not pretend like we really blew it here either. The athletic, low skill, energy guy archetype is not a rare commodity.

[ChettheJet]

As the days go on the more I think the Bulls committed grand theft. Troy Brown jr isn't perfect but you don't have to teach him to hustle and play defense. He can work on his shooting and ball handling during whatever off season there is but the things he does well you can't teach. Mo Wagner didn't sound like a big deal to get back, a more skilled Felicio maybe but then to turn him over and end up with Daniel Theis. This was nothing short of brilliant. Theis has shown he's got more skills than Gafford is ever going to have, more court awareness or BB IQ and you have to hope he sees this is a good spot for him and decides to stick around after this year.

[Stratmaster]

The Gafford love fest is nice, and I’m happy for him, but let’s not pretend like we really blew it here either. The athletic, low skill, energy guy archetype is not a rare commodity.

Case in point.

Exhibit A.

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[Stratmaster]

As the days go on the more I think the Bulls committed grand theft. Troy Brown jr isn't perfect but you don't have to teach him to hustle and play defense. He can work on his shooting and ball handling during whatever off season there is but the things he does well you can't teach. Mo Wagner didn't sound like a big deal to get back, a more skilled Felicio maybe but then to turn him over and end up with Daniel Theis. This was nothing short of brilliant. Theis has shown he's got more skills than Gafford is ever going to have, more court awareness or BB IQ and you have to hope he sees this is a good spot for him and decides to stick around after this year.

Gaffird is averaging 23/12 with 5 blocks per 36 in 17 mpg since the trade.

Theis is averaging 15/7 with 1 block per 36 in 22 minutes per game.

When is Theis going to show the more skills and better basketball IQ?

Gafford is 20. Theis is 29.

I like Theis but there is no basis for the idea that he is better than Gafford. He is more experienced, and it shows. I would make an even trade to get Gaff back in a heartbeat.



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[MrSparkle]

We saw the good, bad and ugly of Gafford. He reminds me of a poor man's Javale McGee; poor only because he's 6'9 instead of 7'. He's able to dominate a 5-minute stretch with his dunks and put-backs. Also able to absolutely nuke the team in 2 minutes. He is very exciting though. I wish him a good career, but let's not kid ourselves - we didn't release the next Shawn Kemp.

I liked DG, but getting rid of Hutchison's guaranteed 4M was actually a big coup, IMO. I would've considered a dump trade involving the two (or whatever it cost to dump Hutch) for straight expiring contracts, let alone a decent prospect like Troy and solid hustle vet in Theis.

[SalmonsSuperfan]

Thanks for Gafford, guys. He has been absolutely fantastic in Washington. His rim protection is legit. His offense is limited, but he is a willing rim runner and Westbrook has been feeding him a steady diet of alley-oops. He is looking like the starter of the future for us.

He is averaging 24 points, 11.3 boards and 3.8 blocks and 1.7 steals per 36 minutes with a TS% of .681 and an on/off differential of +9.3. I'm sure he'll come back down to Earth at some point, but if he even gives us 80% of that production going forward, he's an above average starting center.

so how come he doesn't start or even play 20mpg?

i'm a fan of gafford, thought this board underappreciated his production, but he's a pretty marginal talent. his per 36 numbers are good but there's a reason he's not playing even half that. all he brings is dunks, hustle, and length (though it didn't translate to good defense while he was with the bulls). according to a similar logic, boban marjanovic is a top 5 center in the league. his per36 numbers have been astronomical his whole career, but he's barely an NBA player.

[SalmonsSuperfan]

As the days go on the more I think the Bulls committed grand theft. Troy Brown jr isn't perfect but you don't have to teach him to hustle and play defense. He can work on his shooting and ball handling during whatever off season there is but the things he does well you can't teach. Mo Wagner didn't sound like a big deal to get back, a more skilled Felicio maybe but then to turn him over and end up with Daniel Theis. This was nothing short of brilliant. Theis has shown he's got more skills than Gafford is ever going to have, more court awareness or BB IQ and you have to hope he sees this is a good spot for him and decides to stick around after this year.

Gaffird is averaging 23/12 with 5 blocks per 36 in 17 mpg since the trade.

Theis is averaging 15/7 with 1 block per 36 in 22 minutes per game.

When is Theis going to show the more skills and better basketball IQ?

Gafford is 20. Theis is 29.

I like Theis but there is no basis for the idea that he is better than Gafford. He is more experienced, and it shows. I would make an even trade to get Gaff back in a heartbeat.



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theis's defense is much better and he can score in more ways.

[nate33]

Thanks for Gafford, guys. He has been absolutely fantastic in Washington. His rim protection is legit. His offense is limited, but he is a willing rim runner and Westbrook has been feeding him a steady diet of alley-oops. He is looking like the starter of the future for us.

He is averaging 24 points, 11.3 boards and 3.8 blocks and 1.7 steals per 36 minutes with a TS% of .681 and an on/off differential of +9.3. I'm sure he'll come back down to Earth at some point, but if he even gives us 80% of that production going forward, he's an above average starting center.

so how come he doesn't start or even play 20mpg?

i'm a fan of gafford, thought this board underappreciated his production, but he's a pretty marginal talent. his per 36 numbers are good but there's a reason he's not playing even half that. all he brings is dunks, hustle, and length (though it didn't translate to good defense while he was with the bulls). according to a similar logic, boban marjanovic is a top 5 center in the league. his per36 numbers have been astronomical his whole career, but he's barely an NBA player.

Boban is extremely limited defensively because he has no lateral agility. Starters usually have enough talent to get Boban into an unfavorable mismatch and them exploit him. So generally, Boban is only effective against backups.

Gafford's agility is above average for a center. I think guys like Clint Capela or Rashaun Holmes are a better analogy. Yes, Gafford is limited to being merely a rim runner on offense, but that's good enough for the most part, except perhaps during crunch time.

The one thing that remains to be seen is whether or not Gafford can keep up that intensity level for starter's minutes. He might be just a 24 minute per game guy, not a 28-32 minute guy. But that's okay from the Wizards' standpoint because Thomas Bryant is good enough to give 24 good minutes as well.

[TeamMan]

As the days go on the more I think the Bulls committed grand theft. Troy Brown jr isn't perfect but you don't have to teach him to hustle and play defense. He can work on his shooting and ball handling during whatever off season there is but the things he does well you can't teach. Mo Wagner didn't sound like a big deal to get back, a more skilled Felicio maybe but then to turn him over and end up with Daniel Theis. This was nothing short of brilliant. Theis has shown he's got more skills than Gafford is ever going to have, more court awareness or BB IQ and you have to hope he sees this is a good spot for him and decides to stick around after this year.

Don't forget that the Bulls also have this guy...

Watch on YouTube

AK may bring him over next season.

We have to wait and see.

[TeamMan]

Sorry, double post.

[nate33]

The Gafford love fest is nice, and I’m happy for him, but let’s not pretend like we really blew it here either. The athletic, low skill, energy guy archetype is not a rare commodity.

They're kind of rare, but your point is well-taken. I'd put Gafford in the same category as Robert Williams and Mitchell Robinson - athletic rim protectors who are good enough to be kind of useful based on athleticism alone. The key is whether they figure out the mental side of defense, either though high basketball IQ or by being good enough on raw athleticism alone that a team can wait for the mental side to develop.

If Gafford figures out the mental side, he becomes the next Tyson Chandler/Clint Capela and those guys are quality starters. If he never figures it out, he's the next Javale McGee, a mere role player.

[Grodoboldo]

Thanks for Gafford, guys. He has been absolutely fantastic in Washington. His rim protection is legit. His offense is limited, but he is a willing rim runner and Westbrook has been feeding him a steady diet of alley-oops. He is looking like the starter of the future for us.

He is averaging 24 points, 11.3 boards and 3.8 blocks and 1.7 steals per 36 minutes with a TS% of .681 and an on/off differential of +9.3. I'm sure he'll come back down to Earth at some point, but if he even gives us 80% of that production going forward, he's an above average starting center.

so how come he doesn't start or even play 20mpg?

i'm a fan of gafford, thought this board underappreciated his production, but he's a pretty marginal talent. his per 36 numbers are good but there's a reason he's not playing even half that. all he brings is dunks, hustle, and length (though it didn't translate to good defense while he was with the bulls). according to a similar logic, boban marjanovic is a top 5 center in the league. his per36 numbers have been astronomical his whole career, but he's barely an NBA player.

Boban is extremely limited defensively because he has no lateral agility. Starters usually have enough talent to get Boban into an unfavorable mismatch and them exploit him. So generally, Boban is only effective against backups.

Gafford's agility is above average for a center. I think guys like Clint Capela or Rashaun Holmes are a better analogy. Yes, Gafford is limited to being merely a rim runner on offense, but that's good enough for the most part, except perhaps during crunch time.

The one thing that remains to be seen is whether or not Gafford can keep up that intensity level for starter's minutes. He might be just a 24 minute per game guy, not a 28-32 minute guy. But that's okay from the Wizards' standpoint because Thomas Bryant is good enough to give 24 good minutes as well.

He started a couple of games for us. It did not go well.
I like the guy, and as a 2nd round pick he's already a success case (though I really wanted THT back then, and oh boy would that have been much better), but unless he develops his handle, lateral agility and devensive rebounding (how does someone so active on the offensive boards is so bad at the other side of the ball???), he won't amount to much. Hell, even if he does (which is possible, given his age), he would still project to be a marginal starter.

I'm glad both Washington and Chicago's fans feel like they won the trade, it speaks to a good job done by both FOs.

[Wingy]

The Gafford love fest is nice, and I’m happy for him, but let’s not pretend like we really blew it here either. The athletic, low skill, energy guy archetype is not a rare commodity.

They're kind of rare, but your point is well-taken. I'd put Gafford in the same category as Robert Williams and Mitchell Robinson - athletic rim protectors who are good enough to be kind of useful based on athleticism alone. The key is whether they figure out the mental side of defense, either though high basketball IQ or by being good enough on raw athleticism alone that a team can wait for the mental side to develop.

If Gafford figures out the mental side, he becomes the next Tyson Chandler/Clint Capela and those guys are quality starters. If he never figures it out, he's the next Javale McGee, a mere role player.

Wouldn't disagree that the guys that do it well are valuable...even guys who can only do it in spots (as Gafford-Bulls version did for us) have their niche. To my point (which I see you understand...so I don't see us as having a significant disagreement here) - the example guys are all non-lottery picks with the exception of Chandler. McGee (1st / #18), Capela (1st / #25), and Williams (1st / #27) are all outside the lottery, and then Gafford/Robinson were 2nd rounders. If you need to try to get one, they're not all that hard to grab. Being right about them...well that's the trick for every draft pick.

[Michael Jackson]

I like Gaff and hope he can turn into a Capella type of player. I think him doing it with the Bulls though was never going to happen. Billy can't set him up defensively for him to succeed IMHO. He also isn't skilled enough to transcend a system.

[PaKii94]

Bumping this. I wanted to see what I thought of the gafford trade so I went back. Looks like most of us were high off the "not garpax" train so we didn't look at this trade too closely.

In hindsight, this trade looks that much worse. Spending so much capital on Vuc and because of him, having to trade gafford and pushing out Lauri.

Maybe we shouldn't have let AKME cook

[WestsideResider]

Yet another AKME masterclass!

[TheGOATRises007]

As the days go on the more I think the Bulls committed grand theft. Troy Brown jr isn't perfect but you don't have to teach him to hustle and play defense. He can work on his shooting and ball handling during whatever off season there is but the things he does well you can't teach. Mo Wagner didn't sound like a big deal to get back, a more skilled Felicio maybe but then to turn him over and end up with Daniel Theis. This was nothing short of brilliant. Theis has shown he's got more skills than Gafford is ever going to have, more court awareness or BB IQ and you have to hope he sees this is a good spot for him and decides to stick around after this year.

[Clint Eastwood]

Deal would have been fine if we just kept wagner. I was excited to get him and mad when we immediately flipped him.