European Super League (Indefinitely Suspended)

[aggerrard]

The last time a mid market team won the CL (or was even in the finals) was Porto in 2004. I don't think I'm wrong at all. The current system is not set up to give small market teams a chance, unless your idea of having a chance is fighting over bread crumbs in a system designed to keep you under a boot.

Now you've changed your argument to it being inequitable for small market teams even though as you say Porto won the CL, Leicester won the EPL etc... Having 14 greedy owners forming their own league doesn't help the other 1000's of teams, it doesn't even give them a possibility.

1 mid market CL winner in 16 years or 1 small market league winner in 20 years is nothing to be proud of. The rarity of these outcomes speaks volumes about the states of these competitions.

What are your interest in football?

Many europeans have played and watched football since they were kids. You wonder why there is such an outrage? Because we grew up with it. I want my local club in Denmark to have the chance to compete against the best clubs in the world. I want Liverpool to compete in the Premier League and the Champions League.

I think that's how 95% of European football fans feel. Americans might not have the same feel for the game.

[Mamba81p]

You don't think it will damage the national leagues and smaller teams greatly, even if it isn't a financial success? No one should be happy about this, if they knew what was at stake.

It could create more parity among the teams. that would be one benefit, and the "purists" of the game would welcome that. eliminate those 6 teams from PL and see how the standings would look like: very balanced. There will be less money in the beginning since the casual fans watch the games mostly for the brand/big names, but over time that will change(Manchester City was not a big club 15 years ago).
And also I thought people care more about the integrity of the game, and giving the clubs back to the poor etc. Well... that can be solved too.

Manchester City became a big club because Sheikh Mansour decided to go on a spending spree, not because the EPL offers a pathway to success for small market teams.

One way to preserve the smaller leagues in the presence of a super league would be to turn them into minor leagues used for development (the same way it is done in the US). That is what these clubs are right now anyway. This way, local fans would still have something to cheer for, while the primary league would actually be competitive.

I should have put my answer in green font. kind of.
Manchester City needed the money to compete with the big guys.
But in this alternate future, when there are no more big bad boys(not going to happen), another club will become successful, and fans will eventually follow.
My point was...if the Super League fails, and the 12 clubs disappear, those fans will move to other clubs(they already say they are). So everything will be back to normal.
It is a contradiction to think that SL will fail, and will destroy the sport as we know it. Either it will be a success financially and it will kill the smaller teams, or it will be a disaster, and things will come back to normal, with some pain in the short term.

[Rasho Brezec]

Maybe the NBA should implement 2nd and 3rd divisions with promotions and relegations.

NBA as an organization is incredibly prone to changes and constantly develops new ideas. The complete opposite of UEFA. Maybe it has something to do with the team owners being on the board of governors - sort of like the Super League now.

The NBA is a small elite monopoly. Who made sure to kill any competitors.

As opposed to UEFA which is a giant elite monopoly. Who is threatening to burn down the entire sport in an effort to kill any competitors.

[Speadge]

The NBA represents the interests of 30 franchises whereas UEFA represents 37 member associations with each of them organizing football for their respective nations.

We are talking about a governing body whose intent it is to represent the interests of in excess of 1000 professional football clubs divided over 59 divisions, and each association member represents and organizes thousands of domestic clubs on their own.

There are 26000 football clubs in Germany alone and each of them benefits by the structure put in place by the professional clubs and UEFA.

We're talking about a scale here that's so massive that it's laughable to draw comparisons to US professional sports league and to chastise UEFA for being slow to adopt changes.

Without this structure there would be no Manchester United, nobody around the world would give a flying **** about Anfield, or any of the plastic clubs in Premier League that now have the audacity to act as if they're a step above.

Chelsea and Manchester City for **** sake, those clubs wouldn't even be around if it wasn't for revenue sharing with the lower divisions that's been the lifeline for a lot of lower tier clubs for decades upon decades.

This split has nothing to do with UEFA failure to innovate, it's a cash grab by greedy know nothings that think that their inherited wealth entitles them to play by a different set of rules.

Disgusting and shameful, I hope they all burn in hell.

That's very good post for those who try compare soccer with those few NBA franchises thinking that Europe is one country without grasp how big this thing is and how separation of those teams hurt whole european soccer perspective.

UEFA provides financial support to develop and foster football at all levels - that's the biggest problem some people here does not understand.

[Mamba81p]

So is petanque (and baseball and basketball and Ice Hockey).

lol. read the baseball rules, and compare them to soccer.
Ice Hockey really? How the hell can a kid in Brazil ever play hockey?
Basketball has a lot more rules than soccer as well, and is not as simple to play it as soccer. You need a hard court, a ball that can actually bounce, a backboard and a rim. Soccer can be played with 2 rocks, and ball that barely bounces(if at all)

I played, umpired and coached baseball. it's really a very simple game (based on the English game of rounders) just incredibly drawn out.

At least you understand the beauty and equality of football. You need nothing to play it. Greedy people need lotsa money though.

My experience is that europeans have trouble understanding all the baseball rules. For you it might seem easy to understand, but I am not sure if that's the case with everybody. The only "complicate" rule in soccer is offside. In baseball there are more "complicated" rules like that. That is my point. and offside comes in play only on the big/regular field, which is not how kids start to play anyway.

[NyCeEvO]

Imho. you have no clue what you're talking about and what this decisions brings.
You're aware that UEFA's income take care with financing everything soccer related in Europe including smallest local clubs, football schools, etc ...
This decicion can hurt whole soccer perspective in general. It's beyond my understanding how someone can consider this as good.

It's because they don't understand how traditional European sport works.

It doesn't benefit fans of smaller clubs (Rich get richer).

But as someone who supports Liverpool in America, I don't really have an issue with it. I'm all for it. Selfishly, I love the idea of it. Have for a while now. It just feels right.

Spoiler:

As you can tell, I'm not a good person.

Are you serious?

I've been increasingly falling out of love with American sports: first, baseball; then, football; and now, slowly basketball.

I hate the commercialization of most American sports, especially football. One of the things I love about real "football" has nothing to do with the game itself and that is there are no TV/commercial timeouts during the two halves.

And as far as this proposed league is concerned, I think it's an absolutely dreadful idea. FIFA and UEFA are no saints, but these owners are financial vampires and are taking the 100+ years of tradition, passion, blood, sweat, and tears of these clubs and even more importantly the communities that built them and selling all of that for money.

It's sickening.

I wish there was a way that teams could be forced to operate like clubs in the Bundesliga where only 49% of a club can be privately owned. It would inhibit foolishness like this from happening.

[Foye]

It's because they don't understand how traditional European sport works.

It doesn't benefit fans of smaller clubs (Rich get richer).

But as someone who supports Liverpool in America, I don't really have an issue with it. I'm all for it. Selfishly, I love the idea of it. Have for a while now. It just feels right.

Spoiler:

As you can tell, I'm not a good person.

Are you serious?

I've been increasingly falling out of love with American sports: first, baseball; then, football; and now, slowly basketball.

I hate the commercialization of most American sports, especially football. One of the things I love about real "football" has nothing to do with the game itself and that is there are no TV/commercial timeouts during the two halves.

And as far as this proposed league is concerned, I think it's an absolutely dreadful idea. FIFA and UEFA are no saints, but these owners are financial vampires and are taking the 100+ years of tradition, passion, blood, sweat, and tears of these clubs and even more importantly the communities that built them and selling all of that for money.

It's sickening.

I wish there was a way that teams could be forced to operate like clubs in the Bundesliga where only 49% of a club can be privately owned. It would inhibit foolishness like this from happening.

50+1 rule is sh*t because you have teams like Wolfsburg, Leipzig, Hoffenheim and Leverkusen avoiding it with big company sponsors. It is supposed to guarantee parity but effectively it does cement financial advantages for a third of the league.

And Bayern is benefiting from that rule, too.

[Mamba81p]

The NBA represents the interests of 30 franchises whereas UEFA represents 37 member associations with each of them organizing football for their respective nations.

We are talking about a governing body whose intent it is to represent the interests of in excess of 1000 professional football clubs divided over 59 divisions, and each association member represents and organizes thousands of domestic clubs on their own.

There are 26000 football clubs in Germany alone and each of them benefits by the structure put in place by the professional clubs and UEFA.

We're talking about a scale here that's so massive that it's laughable to draw comparisons to US professional sports league and to chastise UEFA for being slow to adopt changes.

Without this structure there would be no Manchester United, nobody around the world would give a flying **** about Anfield, or any of the plastic clubs in Premier League that now have the audacity to act as if they're a step above.

Chelsea and Manchester City for **** sake, those clubs wouldn't even be around if it wasn't for revenue sharing with the lower divisions that's been the lifeline for a lot of lower tier clubs for decades upon decades.

This split has nothing to do with UEFA failure to innovate, it's a cash grab by greedy know nothings that think that their inherited wealth entitles them to play by a different set of rules.

Disgusting and shameful, I hope they all burn in hell.

That's very good post for those who try compare soccer with those few NBA franchises thinking that Europe is one country without grasp how big this thing is and how separation of those teams hurt whole european soccer perspective.
UEFA provides financial support to develop and foster football at all levels - that's the biggest problem some people here does not understand.

I think the people you disagree with you understand very well. You should not assume that if someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't understand something. Here in US we like to debate a lot, which is very healthy.
What UEFA does in Europe, the high schools and colleges are doing it in US. UEFA and FIFA are being chastised for being corrupt, with well known and unknown scandals around that.

For some in Europe soccer is a way of life, while in US sports are entertainment(even for the die hard fans). I would argue that for the majority of europeans, soccer is just an entertainment, but those are casual fans, that don't argue with people on reddit or forums over super league.

[Mamba81p]

It's because they don't understand how traditional European sport works.

It doesn't benefit fans of smaller clubs (Rich get richer).

But as someone who supports Liverpool in America, I don't really have an issue with it. I'm all for it. Selfishly, I love the idea of it. Have for a while now. It just feels right.

Spoiler:

As you can tell, I'm not a good person.

Are you serious?

I've been increasingly falling out of love with American sports: first, baseball; then, football; and now, slowly basketball.

I hate the commercialization of most American sports, especially football. One of the things I love about real "football" has nothing to do with the game itself and that is there are no TV/commercial timeouts during the two halves.

And as far as this proposed league is concerned, I think it's an absolutely dreadful idea. FIFA and UEFA are no saints, but these owners are financial vampires and are taking the 100+ years of tradition, passion, blood, sweat, and tears of these clubs and even more importantly the communities that built them and selling all of that for money.

It's sickening.

I wish there was a way that teams could be forced to operate like clubs in the Bundesliga where only 49% of a club can be privately owned. It would inhibit foolishness like this from happening.

Sports here are in the entertainment business. You don't like it, that's fine, stop watching it. Meanwhile a lot more people are watching it, and the business is growing, and the product is becoming better and better.

You don't like commercialization and commercials? Well, I suppose you complain about paywalls as well. A lot of people complain about both. How are the broadcasters supposed to make money then? If they don't make money, they will not pay anything for tv rights. If they don't do that, then they have no reason to promote the sport. You will not hear anything in the news about it.
If clubs don't make money then you might as well watch an amateur league.

NFL got 10 billions dollars a year, and you can watch the vast majority of the games FOR FREE. You cannot do that with soccer. That's why all the PL games are behind a very expensive paywall.

Some people want to watch Mbappe and Messi for free. Well, there won't be an Mbappe and a Messi or any other professional player if not for MONEY. Those players must be some greedy a*****, then why watch at all?

[NyCeEvO]

It doesn't benefit fans of smaller clubs (Rich get richer).

But as someone who supports Liverpool in America, I don't really have an issue with it. I'm all for it. Selfishly, I love the idea of it. Have for a while now. It just feels right.

Spoiler:

As you can tell, I'm not a good person.

Are you serious?

I've been increasingly falling out of love with American sports: first, baseball; then, football; and now, slowly basketball.

I hate the commercialization of most American sports, especially football. One of the things I love about real "football" has nothing to do with the game itself and that is there are no TV/commercial timeouts during the two halves.

And as far as this proposed league is concerned, I think it's an absolutely dreadful idea. FIFA and UEFA are no saints, but these owners are financial vampires and are taking the 100+ years of tradition, passion, blood, sweat, and tears of these clubs and even more importantly the communities that built them and selling all of that for money.

It's sickening.

I wish there was a way that teams could be forced to operate like clubs in the Bundesliga where only 49% of a club can be privately owned. It would inhibit foolishness like this from happening.

50+1 rule is sh*t because you have teams like Wolfsburg, Leipzig, Hoffenheim and Leverkusen avoiding it with big company sponsors. It is supposed to guarantee parity but effectively it does cement financial advantages for a third of the league.

And Bayern is benefiting from that rule, too.

Let me clear, I do not like that Bayern is the clear favorite of the Bundesliga every year. That's a joke.

But I do think the interests of the fans ought to be well represented in how these clubs are run. Football and the operations a& activities surrounding is the lifeblood of so many communities throughout Europe. It's already sad that disparities between the haves and the have nots have become this bad...this super league will just make things worse.

[Cactus Jack]

It's because they don't understand how traditional European sport works.

It doesn't benefit fans of smaller clubs (Rich get richer).

But as someone who supports Liverpool in America, I don't really have an issue with it. I'm all for it. Selfishly, I love the idea of it. Have for a while now. It just feels right.

Spoiler:

As you can tell, I'm not a good person.

Are you serious?


I've been increasingly falling out of love with American sports: first, baseball; then, football; and now, slowly basketball.

I hate the commercialization of most American sports, especially football. One of the things I love about real "football" has nothing to do with the game itself and that is there are no TV/commercial timeouts during the two halves.

And as far as this proposed league is concerned, I think it's an absolutely dreadful idea. FIFA and UEFA are no saints, but these owners are financial vampires and are taking the 100+ years of tradition, passion, blood, sweat, and tears of these clubs and even more importantly the communities that built them and selling all of that for money.

It's sickening.

I wish there was a way that teams could be forced to operate like clubs in the Bundesliga where only 49% of a club can be privately owned. It would inhibit foolishness like this from happening.

Yes.

The NFL is the most entertaining & successful ($$) sports league on the planet. No, I'm not gonna debate that with you.

European Football would benefit greatly by adopting some of the NFL's rules (Salary cap). Now, that's obviously a biased take. But it's a real one.

[Young Stapler]

It's happening like most thought it would eventually.

[Foye]

It doesn't benefit fans of smaller clubs (Rich get richer).

But as someone who supports Liverpool in America, I don't really have an issue with it. I'm all for it. Selfishly, I love the idea of it. Have for a while now. It just feels right.

Spoiler:

As you can tell, I'm not a good person.

Are you serious?


I've been increasingly falling out of love with American sports: first, baseball; then, football; and now, slowly basketball.

I hate the commercialization of most American sports, especially football. One of the things I love about real "football" has nothing to do with the game itself and that is there are no TV/commercial timeouts during the two halves.

And as far as this proposed league is concerned, I think it's an absolutely dreadful idea. FIFA and UEFA are no saints, but these owners are financial vampires and are taking the 100+ years of tradition, passion, blood, sweat, and tears of these clubs and even more importantly the communities that built them and selling all of that for money.

It's sickening.

I wish there was a way that teams could be forced to operate like clubs in the Bundesliga where only 49% of a club can be privately owned. It would inhibit foolishness like this from happening.

Yes.

The NFL is the most entertaining & successful ($$) sports league on the planet. No, I'm not gonna debate that with you.

European Football would benefit greatly by adopting some of the NFL's rules (Salary cap). Now, that's obviously a biased take. But it's a real one.

What‘s so entertaining about a game that is stopped like every few seconds?

Guess it takes the teams more time to get in position than the actual game action!
I fall asleep whenever I watch NFL tbh.

[NyCeEvO]

It doesn't benefit fans of smaller clubs (Rich get richer).

But as someone who supports Liverpool in America, I don't really have an issue with it. I'm all for it. Selfishly, I love the idea of it. Have for a while now. It just feels right.

Spoiler:

As you can tell, I'm not a good person.

Are you serious?


I've been increasingly falling out of love with American sports: first, baseball; then, football; and now, slowly basketball.

I hate the commercialization of most American sports, especially football. One of the things I love about real "football" has nothing to do with the game itself and that is there are no TV/commercial timeouts during the two halves.

And as far as this proposed league is concerned, I think it's an absolutely dreadful idea. FIFA and UEFA are no saints, but these owners are financial vampires and are taking the 100+ years of tradition, passion, blood, sweat, and tears of these clubs and even more importantly the communities that built them and selling all of that for money.

It's sickening.

I wish there was a way that teams could be forced to operate like clubs in the Bundesliga where only 49% of a club can be privately owned. It would inhibit foolishness like this from happening.

Yes.

The NFL is the most entertaining & successful ($$) sports league on the planet. No, I'm not gonna debate that with you.

European Football would benefit greatly by adopting some of the NFL's rules (Salary cap). Now, that's obviously a biased take. But it's a real one.

You're right...I'm not going to debate you either.

The only "objective" statement you've made is that the NFL has the highest valued teams in the world. IMO, that is much more of a byproduct of the US financial dominance in the world than it is some sort of objective claim of American football being intrinsically more entertaining compared to soccer/international football.

There's a reason why the latter is taking off much more in the US than the former is across the world and why the viewership of the former is still heavily tied to America while the latter is avidly followed all across the globe.

[NyCeEvO]

Are you serious?


I've been increasingly falling out of love with American sports: first, baseball; then, football; and now, slowly basketball.

I hate the commercialization of most American sports, especially football. One of the things I love about real "football" has nothing to do with the game itself and that is there are no TV/commercial timeouts during the two halves.

And as far as this proposed league is concerned, I think it's an absolutely dreadful idea. FIFA and UEFA are no saints, but these owners are financial vampires and are taking the 100+ years of tradition, passion, blood, sweat, and tears of these clubs and even more importantly the communities that built them and selling all of that for money.

It's sickening.

I wish there was a way that teams could be forced to operate like clubs in the Bundesliga where only 49% of a club can be privately owned. It would inhibit foolishness like this from happening.

Yes.

The NFL is the most entertaining & successful ($$) sports league on the planet. No, I'm not gonna debate that with you.

European Football would benefit greatly by adopting some of the NFL's rules (Salary cap). Now, that's obviously a biased take. But it's a real one.

What‘s so entertaining about a game that is stopped like every few seconds?

Guess it takes the teams more time to get in position than the actual game action!
I fall asleep whenever I watch NFL tbh.

American football is a 60min game that takes 3hrs to complete with commercials compared to international football a 90 min game with 2 stoppage times taking 2hrs.

I want to watch a sport being played with minimal commercials, not commercials with pieces of a game sprinkled throughout a 3hr time block.

[Stribor]

Honestly, it's likely bad for European Football in general. This doesn't benefit fans of smaller clubs (Rich get richer).

But as someone who supports Liverpool in America, I don't really have an issue with it.

Selfishly, I actually love the idea of it. Have for a while now. It just feels right.

Spoiler:

As you can tell, I'm not a good person.

I can understand how American or Asian or African supporters may be okay with it but do you really think you'd be happy playing the same 14 clubs every year without the cups to mix with other teams? I don't think the players would be happy not to have international football and accolades either.

Champions League is pretty much the same group of teams anyway. I don't see that much of a difference honestly in the setup. Other than teams (15), not having to qualify. Yeah it sucks for the other clubs. But if you're a fan of the big 6 in England, than this is nothing but terrific news.

I don't & never have really cared about domestic cups all that much. You know this.

Well majority of football supporters are not fans of those clubs. In honesty If they form it I will never watch it. Football was always local, and most of us older guys even do not like this iteration compared to 70;s and 80's. If they form it I pray they fail miserably and all those teams somehow end bankrupt. That probably will not happen, and with loss of financial support little clubs will produce less and less quality players, football will therefore just become less watchable. Well 20st century was the century of sports and 21st probably will not be. My kids already like watching vide games tournaments more than sports, and serve them right - those tournaments are much more merit oriented than the big professional competitions. Only sports worth watching will become individual sports in which clubs can not buy everything. So I will have to go through my autumn years of life watching tennis ...

[Cactus Jack]

What‘s so entertaining about a game that is stopped like every few seconds?

Guess it takes the teams more time to get in position than the actual game action!
I fall asleep whenever I watch NFL tbh.

Spoiler:

That's a shame!

Watch on YouTube

I'm not sure the video is available outside the country (U.S.). But, it's worth a try.


Due to a Hard Cap, there is actual parity among the teams. The season is relatively short (5 months), and games are played once a week (Sundays), So it doesn't take much effort to follow along.

The game itself, has many layers. Coaching & strategy play a huge part. Like chess in a sense. In Basketball, if you have the best player(s), then you'll win just about every time. This is not always the case in American Football. It's the ultimate team sport. One bad play/mistake, could be the difference between winning & losing.

[NyCeEvO]

I can understand how American or Asian or African supporters may be okay with it but do you really think you'd be happy playing the same 14 clubs every year without the cups to mix with other teams? I don't think the players would be happy not to have international football and accolades either.

Champions League is pretty much the same group of teams anyway. I don't see that much of a difference honestly in the setup. Other than teams (15), not having to qualify. Yeah it sucks for the other clubs. But if you're a fan of the big 6 in England, than this is nothing but terrific news.

I don't & never have really cared about domestic cups all that much. You know this.

Well majority of football supporters are not fans of those clubs. In honesty If they form it I will never watch it. Football was always local, and most of us older guys even do not like this iteration compared to 70;s and 80's. If they form it I pray they fail miserably and all those teams somehow end bankrupt. That probably will not happen, and with loss of financial support little clubs will produce less and less quality players, football will therefore just become less watchable. Well 20st century was the century of sports and 21st probably will not be. My kids already like watching vide games tournaments more than sports, and serve them right - those tournaments are much more merit oriented than the big professional competitions. Only sports worth watching will become individual sports in which clubs can not buy everything. So I will have to go through my autumn years of life watching tennis ...

Have you seen the new CL format? 36 teams, 10 group/league stage matches per team with the top 8 teams automatically skipping to the quarterfinals. Clearly, this was made to appease the Super League clubs. The Superleague is a disgrace and the new CL format is only slightly better.

It's sad...these last two days, I've come to the conclusion that I probably will end up playing more games because of the way sports is going all across the world. Everyone is chasing money so hard that they will eventually chip away any semblance of sport until it becomes fake like WWE. The way VAR is currently being utilized in the Premiership already has me questioning whether the refs behind the monitor aren't being financially incentivized to fix matches. Horrible...

[Sedale Threatt]

There's always Football Manager, baby.

[JVL]

The Super League is a disgrace to the history of football, it's a slap in the face of the fans, of youth leagues everywhere, of the big dream of rising the ranks to the top division and winning it all, of the competitive spirit of the game.

This is what American moneygrabbing ownership of FSG and unbridled capitalist greed of JP Morgan does to our game. It sickens me.

Ban all 12 from their domestic competitions, the EL and CL. Ban the players from the EC and WC, I don't care that it turns my own national team from a global powerhouse into a group of boy scouts. Football will survive without these 12, the game is stronger than their greed.

**** the Super League. Americans will never understand the tribal essence of football and this thread is proof of that. You didn't grow up with it, you don't understand the history and importance of football from the top league to the lower regional leagues and you never ever will.