Around the NFL Thread

Dodub · Post #6641 » by **Dodub** » Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:17 pm

It’s not debatable at this point that Clowney was a massive bust

Post #6642 » by **Cactus Jack** » Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:37 pm

Dodub wrote:It’s not debatable at this point that Clowney was a massive bust

Was he?

People like to throw that label out because both Aaron Donald & Khalil Mack we're apart of that draft class.

Do you know who was picked 2nd overall after Clowney? OT Greg Robinson (Huge bust). Blake Bortles was taken 3rd overall fwiw.

He clearly shouldn't have gone 1st overall. Especially over guys like Mack & Donald. But he's still been a very good & productive player when healthy.

CrimsonCrew · Post #6643 » by **CrimsonCrew** » Fri Apr 16, 2021 11:38 pm

Dodub wrote:It’s not debatable at this point that Clowney was a massive bust

As the first overall pick, sure. But as a guy to bring in late in FA on a mid-range, one-year deal? I think he's worth a shot.

He definitely was not a guy I was "targeting" when the FA period opened up, but when we moved up in the draft and I was thinking about moving Garoppolo and using some of the savings to flesh out our roster, he's a guy whose name stood out a bit.

Dodub · Post #6644 » by **Dodub** » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:19 pm

Cactus Jack wrote:
Dodub wrote:It’s not debatable at this point that Clowney was a massive bust

Was he?

People like to throw that label out because both Aaron Donald & Khalil Mack we're apart of that draft class.

Do you know who was picked 2nd overall after Clowney? OT Greg Robinson (Huge bust). Blake Bortles was taken 3rd overall fwiw.

He clearly shouldn't have gone 1st overall. Especially over guys like Mack & Donald. But he's still been a very good & productive player when healthy.

Yes he was. The fact that there were a lot of busts in the top 5 doesn’t change the fact that he was a huge bust. This is especially highlighted when we mention the other DL prospects that have dominated.

Clowney has struggled to stay healthy through out his career and when healthy, he’s just been ok. He’s never had double digit sacks in his career and only got close 2 times. As a first overall pick DE/OLB, that’s very very bad

Dodub · Post #6645 » by **Dodub** » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:20 pm

CrimsonCrew wrote:
Dodub wrote:It’s not debatable at this point that Clowney was a massive bust

As the first overall pick, sure. But as a guy to bring in late in FA on a mid-range, one-year deal? I think he's worth a shot.

He definitely was not a guy I was "targeting" when the FA period opened up, but when we moved up in the draft and I was thinking about moving Garoppolo and using some of the savings to flesh out our roster, he's a guy whose name stood out a bit.

I would possibly kick the tires for vet minimum, but for some reason people keep paying this guy millions. He’s not been a consistent difference maker in the league.

CrimsonCrew · Post #6646 » by **CrimsonCrew** » Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:45 pm

Dodub wrote:
CrimsonCrew wrote:
Dodub wrote:It’s not debatable at this point that Clowney was a massive bust

As the first overall pick, sure. But as a guy to bring in late in FA on a mid-range, one-year deal? I think he's worth a shot.

He definitely was not a guy I was "targeting" when the FA period opened up, but when we moved up in the draft and I was thinking about moving Garoppolo and using some of the savings to flesh out our roster, he's a guy whose name stood out a bit.

I would possibly kick the tires for vet minimum, but for some reason people keep paying this guy millions. He’s not been a consistent difference maker in the league.

Now you're swinging too far in the other direction. Clowney is a solid starting DE. His pressure numbers are routinely better than his sack numbers, and are pretty solid. And he's very good against the run - again, with the caveat that he has dealt with some injuries and he can take plays off. If he weren't a first overall pick, he'd be considered one of the better base ends in the league, most likely.

Vet minimum players are marginal roster guys. Clowney is far superior to that sort of guy, even factoring in his off-field baggage (worth ethic, seemingly higher opinion of himself than the production bears out).

wco81 · Post #6647 » by **wco81** » Sat Apr 17, 2021 9:48 pm

I think the expectations were off the charts.

They expected him to be perennial Defensive Player of the Year and a GOAT.

Clowney has fallen well short of those expectations.

thesack12 · Post #6648 » by **thesack12** » Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:20 pm

I'd much rather have Clowney at his cost, than Armstead at his cost. But that unfortunately isn't an option, and not exactly a glowing endorsement for Clowney either.

I'd also rather have Kerry Hyder at his price, than Clowney at his cost.

Clowney can be a solid piece for a team, but I think we are past the point where we can expect him to be a true impact player. At $8-13 mil/season I would need a guy that is a legit needle mover, I just don't think Clowney is that guy.

CrimsonCrew · Post #6649 » by **CrimsonCrew** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:00 pm

Alex Smith announces his retirement. Tough not to root for the guy, even though I spent years basically cursing him. He took more than his fair share of lumps and kept fighting. Can't feel all that bad for a guy who has made well over a hundred million dollars to play a game, but he's lost plenty along the way - one of his best friends, most of his leg, his starting job repeatedly - and always came through it with poise and grace. I wish him all the best going forward.

wco81 · Post #6650 » by **wco81** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 5:43 pm

Great human being, not great QB.

I don't blame him. I blame Mike **** Nolan for missing on ARod, who was in his own backyard.

Nolan has been one and done as a HC because of that fateful decision.

CrimsonCrew · Post #6651 » by **CrimsonCrew** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 7:21 pm

Yeah, I posted about this just yesterday in one of the draft threads. No one can realistically argue that taking Smith over Rodgers wasn't a bad miss, but given the relative circumstances both guys found themselves in, I just can't see a way to fairly compare them. Smith was an exceptionally young player, rushed into an awful situation, with the ground constantly shifting beneath his feet (five OCs in five years), who dealt with a serious injury to his throwing arm before he finally found a semblance of stability. If he had gone to Green Bay, he would not have had Rodgers' career. But he would have been better. I'm not at all convinced Rodgers would have blossomed had he come to SF.

wco81 · Post #6652 » by **wco81** » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:42 pm

Well there was a competency issue.

Until Harbaugh came, who made defense and running game key to take the burden off Smith that first year.

The problem was ownership making bad hiring decisions, including Baalke. And they stuck with Nolan too long, squandered what was a strong roster, though Nolan did acquire many of the players after the Ravens model of player personnel, namely bigger and stronger.

Bingo_AlphaMan · Post #6653 » by **Bingo_AlphaMan** » Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:04 am

wco81 wrote:Well there was a competency issue.

Until Harbaugh came, who made defense and running game key to take the burden off Smith that first year.

The problem was ownership making bad hiring decisions, including Baalke. And they stuck with Nolan too long, squandered what was a strong roster, though Nolan did acquire many of the players after the Ravens model of player personnel, namely bigger and stronger.

I’m in the minority here but Trent Baalke wasn’t as bad as fans are making it out to be. Yes, he singlehandedly messed up the Harbaugh era but the man drafted some star players for us and managed to get us Justin Smith.

CrimsonCrew · Post #6654 » by **CrimsonCrew** » Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:57 am

Bingo_AlphaMan wrote:
wco81 wrote:Well there was a competency issue.

Until Harbaugh came, who made defense and running game key to take the burden off Smith that first year.

The problem was ownership making bad hiring decisions, including Baalke. And they stuck with Nolan too long, squandered what was a strong roster, though Nolan did acquire many of the players after the Ravens model of player personnel, namely bigger and stronger.

I’m in the minority here but Trent Baalke wasn’t as bad as fans are making it out to be. Yes, he singlehandedly messed up the Harbaugh era but the man drafted some star players for us and managed to get us Justin Smith.

McCloughan was the GM when they brought in Smith. Baalke took over in 2011.

CrimsonCrew · Post #6655 » by **CrimsonCrew** » Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:30 pm

Cactus Jack wrote:

Read on Twitter

Aldon Smith wanted for battery. One troubled dude. Gotta wonder if alcohol was involved.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/04/19/aldon-smith-wanted-in-louisiana-on-battery-charge/

thesack12 · Post #6656 » by **thesack12** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:21 am

CrimsonCrew wrote:
Bingo_AlphaMan wrote:
wco81 wrote:Well there was a competency issue.

Until Harbaugh came, who made defense and running game key to take the burden off Smith that first year.

The problem was ownership making bad hiring decisions, including Baalke. And they stuck with Nolan too long, squandered what was a strong roster, though Nolan did acquire many of the players after the Ravens model of player personnel, namely bigger and stronger.

I’m in the minority here but Trent Baalke wasn’t as bad as fans are making it out to be. Yes, he singlehandedly messed up the Harbaugh era but the man drafted some star players for us and managed to get us Justin Smith.

McCloughan was the GM when they brought in Smith. Baalke took over in 2011.

In terms of star players Baalke drafted, I'll give him Deforest Buckner but that's pretty much it.

While some guys he drafted had a few good seasons like Kaepernick and Aldon Smith, neither of those guys had staying power. Chris Borland also had a great rookie season, but he retired after that 1 season. Other than those guys, I really don't consider anybody stars. Eric Reid and Tartt were solid players, but far from stars IMO.

His complete whiff of the entire 2012 draft was an unmitigated disaster. At the time 9ers were squarely sitting within a Super Bowl window, and they literally got zero help out of that draft. He was completely blind to the WR position, which hurt the team dramatically. We also can't forget Trent's unending infatuation with drafting guys sporting medical red flags.

I'll never praise Trent Baalke for anything personally, and the only thing I will give him credit for is leaving the team in a good cap situation once he was thankfully out the door.

thesack12 · Post #6657 » by **thesack12** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:26 am

Jordan Reed announced his retirement.

Can't say I'm surprised, those head injuries are scary. Although he wasn't actually on the team I was holding out hope he was waiting in the team's back pocket to pull out as a under-rated passing game weapon if they didn't come out of the draft with receiving help.

Hopefully Jordan goes on to live a healthy fulfilling life.

CrimsonCrew · Post #6658 » by **CrimsonCrew** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:10 pm

CrimsonCrew wrote:
Cactus Jack wrote:

Read on Twitter

Aldon Smith wanted for battery. One troubled dude. Gotta wonder if alcohol was involved.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/04/19/aldon-smith-wanted-in-louisiana-on-battery-charge/

Strangled the guy unconscious, apparently. We'll have to wait and see, especially as there's apparently video, but putting the guy to sleep pretty dramatically increases the seriousness. At least it would in CA, and I have to assume the same is true in LA.

thesack12 · Post #6659 » by **thesack12** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:22 pm

CrimsonCrew wrote:
CrimsonCrew wrote:
Cactus Jack wrote:

Read on Twitter

Aldon Smith wanted for battery. One troubled dude. Gotta wonder if alcohol was involved.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/04/19/aldon-smith-wanted-in-louisiana-on-battery-charge/

Strangled the guy unconscious, apparently. We'll have to wait and see, especially as there's apparently video, but putting the guy to sleep pretty dramatically increases the seriousness. At least it would in CA, and I have to assume the same is true in LA.

Wow, hadn't heard it was allegedly that serious.

Since there is video, I think we'll find out pretty quickly on how guilty he is/how serious it was. If Seattle cuts him loose soon, we'd be safe to assume that the video doesn't look to kindly on Aldon.

Post #6660 » by **Cactus Jack** » Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:58 pm

thesack12 wrote:
CrimsonCrew wrote:
CrimsonCrew wrote:
Aldon Smith wanted for battery. One troubled dude. Gotta wonder if alcohol was involved.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/04/19/aldon-smith-wanted-in-louisiana-on-battery-charge/

Strangled the guy unconscious, apparently. We'll have to wait and see, especially as there's apparently video, but putting the guy to sleep pretty dramatically increases the seriousness. At least it would in CA, and I have to assume the same is true in LA.

Wow, hadn't heard it was allegedly that serious.

Since there is video, I think we'll find out pretty quickly on how guilty he is/how serious it was. If Seattle cuts him loose soon, we'd be safe to assume that the video doesn't look to kindly on Aldon.

Read on Twitter

Smith was released Wednesday on $25,000 bail, and his arraignment is currentlly scheduled for July 14. If convicted, Smith could face up to eight years in prison.

He signed for the Vet Minimum ($900K). He's making chump change for the most part.