It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread

[Fierce1]

The most likely scenario was the Celts getting James Harden for Jaylen, Smart, other young players, and multiple picks.

So the Celts' new Big 3 will be Harden, Tatum, and Kemba.

What happens after 2-3 years when Harden and Kemba will be on the decline?

There's a chance Jayson Tatum might want out of Boston if the Celts become a mediocre team when Harden and Kemba get old.

I think Ainge was tempted to pull the trigger on Harden.

But it's a good thing he didn't.

[Feed Your Head]

A ten year window in today’s nba?

[Fierce1]

A ten year window in today’s nba?

As long as the Celts have Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown then I don't see why the Celts won't be a contender every season until 2031.

[Feed Your Head]

[MagicBagley18]

A ten year window in today’s nba?

It’s meme worthy here at this point. Just complete delusional thinking. Who gives a flying f if we got harden but the 10 year window bit is hilarious

[Fierce1]

Looks like we're just going to have to see it to believe it.

Just like a lot of Celtic fans here didn't believe Ainge would make a move at the trade deadline.

[MagicBagley18]

Looks like we're just going to have to see it to believe it.

Just like a lot of Celtic fans here didn't believe Ainge would make a move at the trade deadline.

No we said he wouldn’t make huge moves or multiple moves and he didn’t....he added Evan Fournier for 2 pretzels and a soda. We basically just didn’t think he’d do any of the **** u suggested

[Fierce1]

Looks like we're just going to have to see it to believe it.

Just like a lot of Celtic fans here didn't believe Ainge would make a move at the trade deadline.

No we said he wouldn’t make huge moves or multiple moves and he didn’t....he added Evan Fournier for 2 pretzels and a soda. We basically just didn’t think he’d do any of the **** u suggested

I wasn't referring to you or those who said Ainge would make a small move.

There were some who really didn't believe Ainge would make a move, not even a small move.

[reload141]

Can you imagine what our medical staff would’ve done with Harden if we traded for him?

He would’ve probably clinched mvp by now.

Bullet to the heart, thankfully I was always onboard with trading for Harden like MagicBagley and other were... there’s endless evidence of me wanting Harden on this team.

[Ernest]

Ernest, I'm glad you brought this up. It's an interesting evolving debate. Here's the debate at the surface level, for me anyways. I've got 3 players to consider after this season: Kemba, Marcus, and FournHub. We won't be in the tax this year so next year we could go over. But as we all know, it starts to get REAL expensive, real fast once you wade into this territory. So...

Marcus: Could be an ideal starting primary ballhandler for this team. Best passer on the team. Best defender. Enables Brad to field completely switchable lineups. A leader on the floor and in the lockeroom. Someone that everyone respects. Maybe command close to 20M 2 years from now which is a considerable discount from Kemba. Ideally, doesn't need a ton of shots to function on this team which is ideal if Kemba or FournHub are taking more (which they should). But he's also the most tradeable of the 3. Almost any team would want him and you could get in return for him a player or players in a package that could fill in what remaining holes you might have. Plus, I don't think it takes a star primary ballhandler to run this offense. It can fit most guys as we've seen.

Kemba: Still an explosive guy who can carry you for quarters if not games anymore. Well-respected leader on this team. It's taken him all year but he finally looks more bouncy from game to game, and maybe even just as important, he's looking more and more like he's finally finding his fit with the Jays on the court. Remember earlier it looked so awkward with all of them on the court together. Doesn't look like that lately. He told everyone that HE needed to adjust to fit in with our 2 young stars, not the other way around and lately, it looks like he finally has. Starting to pass the ball well and be a playmaker for others now which is not something he has really done. I think as Fournier gets added to the mix, you'll see that blossom even further. He's converting at the rim now at like 70%. His jumper is still off though and inconsistent. Plus, it's gonna be hard to move him in the offseason. We'll need to add sweeteners to get him off this team.

FournHub: This is the wildcard. Right now he's a relative unknown. But if everyone was calling this acquisition "Hayward-lite", how likely is it that his skillset is NOT gonna translate here? We've already seen in a small sample size what he can do. His shooting blends with the Jay's so well here it's scary. He and Smart need less Usage than Kemba to impact the game around our 2 main guys. He spreads the floor. He moves without the ball. As a tertiary scorer, with HIS efficiency, what do you think would happen if you gave him Kemba's 15 shots in this system? But we didn't give up much for him. 2 2nd rounders are nothing. Could Danny afford the optics of how it would look to let him leave? He may want similar to what Smart will get. How about another sign n trade if he doesn't want to stay here. Can you really sign him and NOT prepare for him to be a starter next season next to the Jays? Would he even agree to that? Middle of the season is one thing but I imagine, Evan thinks himself a starter.

Sorry for the book but if this brings us back to your thought at the end, could we actually keep all 3? Would that even work? I kinda feel like one way or another, a choice will have to be made.

I agree but I don't think we trade Smart. He might be the best defender in the NBA. The awards go to bigs-whatever. He plays elite D. We'd have to get a crazy return to make trading him make any sense. Smart is much better than Kemba and should be the leader, but I think Smart really only cares about winning. Kemba too. I don't see those guys fighting it out. And we have another year on Smarts cheap deal.

Once we go over the tax line what each guy makes doesn't really matter so much anymore. I wish we still had some number guys around to break down the costs and risks going forward.

I guess the other interesting question is what would Kemba fetch us in a potential summer trade? I know people have been mad on here and saying he has negative value but thats bonkers. If some team decides Kemba is the guy they want to start a culture change and help a rebuild and they are willing to pony up real assets things could get interesting.

There's only been two ideas that I've been able to come up with for Kemba and I may or may not have mentioned them to you:

Kemba and Nesmith for Al Horford- salaries don't have to match. OKC does Al a favor for being a good citizen and sending him back to a place where he did well. In return they take on Kemba who can teach a little bit to SGA (who played well in 2 guard lineups next to CP3 before, mind you so it's not a crazy idea). And they get a potential longterm rotation guy in Nesmith who could maybe be a shooter/scorer to build with. We obviously get a favorite of many back (along with his sister). We get a little overcrowded at the big spot so maybe TT gets moved after that but Horford obviously knows what we do here. 20mpg off the bench seems like a good fit for him.

I think that a really bad trade for us. Why would we be giving up an additional asset to trade Kemba for Horford? Granted I'm not watching every Horford game but the 6ers paid to get rid of him and now OKC is not playing him. With his contract that's got to make him a negative value right? Would we have taken him for a top 59 protected pick at the deadline if it was offered? (obviously cap situations weigh heavy into this, but even in a hypothetical where we could do it, I don't think we do.) We were not willing to offer him the contract Philly did because we didn't want to be stuck with the last few years of it. Those years are now. But even if we give Al some credit and call him and his contract completely neutral, that means you are valuing Kemba as a severe negative value. I just don't see that. He is scoring. Leading the team in charges taken. An all around good sport and is a known name to the casual fan.


IF we were to trade Kemba I think we would like 2 ways:

1. To a good team that has a bad contract. (but not as big) They get to ditch someone and bring back some help and they pay us a pick or a prospect to do it.

2. We trade him to a bad team for a vet that can help us. A lot of teams end up in a rebuild where they are so far under the cap they have to spend the money to hit the salary floor. Kemba would be a perfect guy for them to take. He's not going to fight with young emerging players and will keep things positive. They can trade us a win now vet that is not in their plans and lets us save a lot of money.

[Ernest]

Call me crazy but I still think there is an outside chance that Carsen Edwards is cut (even with 1 year remaining on his contract for $1.7 million) and Ainge adds another vet for a playoff run.

Pretty interesting on a night when the Celtics are extremely shorthanded that Edwards is the only player not to see 1 minute of floor time. Even a two way player (Waters) played over him.

Not saying it's going to happen, just saying I wouldn't be surprised.

I mean if someone really good unexpectedly is available than sure why not? We could live with a dead money next year. But Carson is young and was picked at what the top of the 2nd round? I'd imagine if Ainge wanted another spot he could have found a way to trade Edwards for someone that we could just cut. I don't see us adding someone else unless it comes as a surprise to Danny.

[Celts17Pride]

Call me crazy but I still think there is an outside chance that Carsen Edwards is cut (even with 1 year remaining on his contract for $1.7 million) and Ainge adds another vet for a playoff run.

Pretty interesting on a night when the Celtics are extremely shorthanded that Edwards is the only player not to see 1 minute of floor time. Even a two way player (Waters) played over him.

Not saying it's going to happen, just saying I wouldn't be surprised.

I mean if someone really good unexpectedly is available than sure why not? We could live with a dead money next year. But Carson is young and was picked at what the top of the 2nd round? I'd imagine if Ainge wanted another spot he could have found a way to trade Edwards for someone that we could just cut. I don't see us adding someone else unless it comes as a surprise to Danny.

I mean who knows? I’m just saying I wouldn’t be surprised. I was saying that Ainge was going to cut Wagner and sign someone and not many people believed that would happen.

Edwards not playing at all in that Chicago game when the Celtics were extremely short handed was an eye opener for me especially because the Celtics were having a difficult time scoring.

If Edwards can’t play in a game when most of the team is out and you need scoring then when can he play?

Ainge could be looking around

[winsomme2]

This team needs a floor manager. Maybe more than interior help. We need someone who can break teams down in the half court and make better decisions in transition.

Smart is too slow to get consistent separation in half court sets. He's a decent decision maker but we need someone who really forces the defense to collapse. Jaylen and Tatum simply turn the ball over too much when they try to take on this role.

I'm thinking like Rondo addition to the Clips.

Is there a way to turn Kemba into Lonzo? That's the kind of move I'm looking for.

[Hal14]

This team needs a floor manager. Maybe more than interior help. We need someone who can break teams down in the half court and make better decisions in transition.

Smart is too slow to get consistent separation in half court sets. He's a decent decision maker but we need someone who really forces the defense to collapse. Jaylen and Tatum simply turn the ball over too much when they try to take on this role.

I'm thinking like Rondo addition to the Clips.

Is there a way to turn Kemba into Lonzo? That's the kind of move I'm looking for.

I would be down for turning Kemba into Lonzo. Not sure how it could happen, though. Ball is a free agent this offseason. So we'd have to first trade Kemba somehow and then sign Ball (but what if we trade Kemba and are not able to sign Ball?) They'd have to be separate transactions, unless we do a sign and trade where pelicans sign ball and trade him...but I don't think they even have the cap space to sign him in the first place.

Plus, breaking his man down off the dribble and making the defense collapse isn't exactly Ball's strength. His strengths are moreso:
-Good size at the PG spot at 6'6
-Good spot up shooter from deep, which creates spacing and opens up the floor for other guys
-Solid defense
-Very unselfish, pass first, shoot 2nd guy
-When he creates for others and gets assists, it's usually more when he's out on the perimeter and surveys the floor and is able to zip a pass to the open man either for a 3, or hit a cutter and throw it to a big man down low...or making good passes leading the break in transition. From the film I've seen, it's less of him breaking down a defense, making it collapse and dishing it to a teammate for an easy bucket.
-Still very young and has shown steady improvement each of his last 3 or 4 years in the league..

But hey, you can't have it all. Ball would check most of the boxes I';d be looking for. I'd love to see us switch out Kemba and replace him with Ball...just not sure if it's realistic, especially since nobody is going to want to trade for Kemba's bad contract..

[BK_2020]

I love me some Lonzo but he's similar to Smart and PP in that he's not a 3 level scoring threat and can't breakdown defenses as a lead guard. Lonzo would be ideal in the Marcus Smart role.

[hugepatsfan]

A ten year window in today’s nba?

As long as the Celts have Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown then I don't see why the Celts won't be a contender every season until 2031.

So I agree with your statement on the face of it. But until they each sign their name on the dotted line for their next contracts after the extensions they've already signed, any talk of a 10 year window is premature. You just can't take that for granted. I think we're also seeing this year that there are different degrees of contending. We're a good team and worth watching the playoffs for the possibility of a deep run, but we are not a favorite. If we don't make the moves to become a favorite, then there is a good chance that Tatum and/or Brown sign elsewhere on their next deals. That's the reality of the NBA.

[Dannyboy36]

I guess it’s subjective but I don’t view this Celts team as a contender.

[Ernest]

Call me crazy but I still think there is an outside chance that Carsen Edwards is cut (even with 1 year remaining on his contract for $1.7 million) and Ainge adds another vet for a playoff run.

Pretty interesting on a night when the Celtics are extremely shorthanded that Edwards is the only player not to see 1 minute of floor time. Even a two way player (Waters) played over him.

Not saying it's going to happen, just saying I wouldn't be surprised.

I mean if someone really good unexpectedly is available than sure why not? We could live with a dead money next year. But Carson is young and was picked at what the top of the 2nd round? I'd imagine if Ainge wanted another spot he could have found a way to trade Edwards for someone that we could just cut. I don't see us adding someone else unless it comes as a surprise to Danny.

I mean who knows? I’m just saying I wouldn’t be surprised. I was saying that Ainge was going to cut Wagner and sign someone and not many people believed that would happen.

Edwards not playing at all in that Chicago game when the Celtics were extremely short handed was an eye opener for me especially because the Celtics were having a difficult time scoring.

If Edwards can’t play in a game when most of the team is out and you need scoring then when can he play?

Ainge could be looking around

That's a good point. Could be the decision was made to give Waters a real look. I'm not sure whats going on with the "non covid illnesses" going around but you'd think (and hope) there are not too many games with Smart and Kemba both out. Carson already got a bunch of looks this year, Waters really hasn't. I'm thinking that is the more likely situation, but the more I think about your point I guess I wouldn't be surprised if Carson was cut tomorrow either.

[bucknersrevenge]

This team needs a floor manager. Maybe more than interior help. We need someone who can break teams down in the half court and make better decisions in transition.

Smart is too slow to get consistent separation in half court sets. He's a decent decision maker but we need someone who really forces the defense to collapse. Jaylen and Tatum simply turn the ball over too much when they try to take on this role.

I'm thinking like Rondo addition to the Clips.

Is there a way to turn Kemba into Lonzo? That's the kind of move I'm looking for.

Rubio was eyeing Boston before we got Kemba. Probably would've signed for less than he got in Minnesota too.

[keevsnick1]

A ten year window in today’s nba?

As long as the Celts have Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown then I don't see why the Celts won't be a contender every season until 2031.

So I agree with your statement on the face of it. But until they each sign their name on the dotted line for their next contracts after the extensions they've already signed, any talk of a 10 year window is premature. You just can't take that for granted. I think we're also seeing this year that there are different degrees of contending. We're a good team and worth watching the playoffs for the possibility of a deep run, but we are not a favorite. If we don't make the moves to become a favorite, then there is a good chance that Tatum and/or Brown sign elsewhere on their next deals. That's the reality of the NBA.

It's certainly not guaranteed, it could go wrong. But it's also not crazy by any means. Coming into this year Brown was under contract 4 years and Tatum 5 years. So you basically just need both of those guys to each sign one more contract here and you get pretty close to a ten year window. That's not a crazy unlikely outcome.

Ainge just needs to build well around them, but that's true regardless of what path you take. If he sucks and cant put complimentary guys around the stars then any/all approaches are doomed.