It's a Tragedy to see the Deadline's Over Post Trade Thread

[Ernest]

This team needs a floor manager. Maybe more than interior help. We need someone who can break teams down in the half court and make better decisions in transition.

Smart is too slow to get consistent separation in half court sets. He's a decent decision maker but we need someone who really forces the defense to collapse. Jaylen and Tatum simply turn the ball over too much when they try to take on this role.

I'm thinking like Rondo addition to the Clips.

Is there a way to turn Kemba into Lonzo? That's the kind of move I'm looking for.

Rondo and Ball were the 2 guys I was hoping we would get!

I don't see why Kemba couldn't be turned into Ball. It's really up to where Ball wants to play. He can sign with any team under the cap, he can stay or he can probably have a sign and trade made to any team that wants him. So if he wants to come here I don't see why not. The next question would be if they want Kemba and his salary or not. If not a 3rd team is needed. But the trade value of someone leaving in a sign and trade can't be that high. If he wants to come here I think we could do it and keep the core of JT JB MS RW and fournier and hopefully PP and Romeo too. Kemba Nesmith a pick and end of bench guys should be more than enough to get a guy who wants to leave anyways. Just Kemba alone should be more than enough if we wants to come here.

But he probably doesn't want to come here. If he did we could have told someone to tell us that and we could have traded Kemba for him at the deadline. I'm guessing he stays or goes to LA NY or Miami.

[hugepatsfan]

This team needs a floor manager. Maybe more than interior help. We need someone who can break teams down in the half court and make better decisions in transition.

Smart is too slow to get consistent separation in half court sets. He's a decent decision maker but we need someone who really forces the defense to collapse. Jaylen and Tatum simply turn the ball over too much when they try to take on this role.

I'm thinking like Rondo addition to the Clips.

Is there a way to turn Kemba into Lonzo? That's the kind of move I'm looking for.

Rubio was eyeing Boston before we got Kemba. Probably would've signed for less than he got in Minnesota too.

I don't think that type of PG meshes well with Tatum. I've never seen him display any sort of consistent willingness or skill set to play off the ball. Feels like anytime someone passes to him, even if the shot is open, he has to hold it for a couple second to convert the play back into an ISO situation. I also very rarely see him cut to the rim when he doesn't have the ball.

Obviously a better table setter would maybe encourage more of that, but for as much criticism as Smart gets he seems to be a pretty willing and able passer with most other guys on the team, especially the second unit. Everyone just takes for granted that it's "easier" to scorer off the ball. In reality it takes an entirely different skill set both physically and mentally. I don't see that in Tatum's game. Any extended time off the ball for him and I think we're reducing his impact. For him to maximize his potential he needs to be a point forward type IMO.

[Fierce1]

A ten year window in today’s nba?

As long as the Celts have Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown then I don't see why the Celts won't be a contender every season until 2031.

So I agree with your statement on the face of it. But until they each sign their name on the dotted line for their next contracts after the extensions they've already signed, any talk of a 10 year window is premature. You just can't take that for granted. I think we're also seeing this year that there are different degrees of contending. We're a good team and worth watching the playoffs for the possibility of a deep run, but we are not a favorite. If we don't make the moves to become a favorite, then there is a good chance that Tatum and/or Brown sign elsewhere on their next deals. That's the reality of the NBA.

Of course the 10-year window is not possible if Tatum and Brown leave.

But there's just no reason for those 2 to leave Boston.

Money won't be an issue.

The situation in Boston would have to be really awful for those 2 to leave.

[JediMasterRevan]

This team needs a floor manager. Maybe more than interior help. We need someone who can break teams down in the half court and make better decisions in transition.

Smart is too slow to get consistent separation in half court sets. He's a decent decision maker but we need someone who really forces the defense to collapse. Jaylen and Tatum simply turn the ball over too much when they try to take on this role.

I'm thinking like Rondo addition to the Clips.

Is there a way to turn Kemba into Lonzo? That's the kind of move I'm looking for.

Rubio was eyeing Boston before we got Kemba. Probably would've signed for less than he got in Minnesota too.

I don't think that type of PG meshes well with Tatum. I've never seen him display any sort of consistent willingness or skill set to play off the ball. Feels like anytime someone passes to him, even if the shot is open, he has to hold it for a couple second to convert the play back into an ISO situation. I also very rarely see him cut to the rim when he doesn't have the ball.

Obviously a better table setter would maybe encourage more of that, but for as much criticism as Smart gets he seems to be a pretty willing and able passer with most other guys on the team, especially the second unit. Everyone just takes for granted that it's "easier" to scorer off the ball. In reality it takes an entirely different skill set both physically and mentally. I don't see that in Tatum's game. Any extended time off the ball for him and I think we're reducing his impact. For him to maximize his potential he needs to be a point forward type IMO.

Give me Ball, Lowry, Potentially Pritchard, D. Murray, Haliburton, Brogdon, SGA an of course Marcus Smart

[Ernest]

This team needs a floor manager. Maybe more than interior help. We need someone who can break teams down in the half court and make better decisions in transition.

Smart is too slow to get consistent separation in half court sets. He's a decent decision maker but we need someone who really forces the defense to collapse. Jaylen and Tatum simply turn the ball over too much when they try to take on this role.

I'm thinking like Rondo addition to the Clips.

Is there a way to turn Kemba into Lonzo? That's the kind of move I'm looking for.

Rubio was eyeing Boston before we got Kemba. Probably would've signed for less than he got in Minnesota too.

I don't think that type of PG meshes well with Tatum. I've never seen him display any sort of consistent willingness or skill set to play off the ball. Feels like anytime someone passes to him, even if the shot is open, he has to hold it for a couple second to convert the play back into an ISO situation. I also very rarely see him cut to the rim when he doesn't have the ball.

Obviously a better table setter would maybe encourage more of that, but for as much criticism as Smart gets he seems to be a pretty willing and able passer with most other guys on the team, especially the second unit. Everyone just takes for granted that it's "easier" to scorer off the ball. In reality it takes an entirely different skill set both physically and mentally. I don't see that in Tatum's game. Any extended time off the ball for him and I think we're reducing his impact. For him to maximize his potential he needs to be a point forward type IMO.

Thats a good point. I think right now he is focused on driving more and getting to the ft line more. He has already added a lot to his game so I don't see why he wouldn't become a better cutter over time.

[bucknersrevenge]

This team needs a floor manager. Maybe more than interior help. We need someone who can break teams down in the half court and make better decisions in transition.

Smart is too slow to get consistent separation in half court sets. He's a decent decision maker but we need someone who really forces the defense to collapse. Jaylen and Tatum simply turn the ball over too much when they try to take on this role.

I'm thinking like Rondo addition to the Clips.

Is there a way to turn Kemba into Lonzo? That's the kind of move I'm looking for.

Rubio was eyeing Boston before we got Kemba. Probably would've signed for less than he got in Minnesota too.

I don't think that type of PG meshes well with Tatum. I've never seen him display any sort of consistent willingness or skill set to play off the ball. Feels like anytime someone passes to him, even if the shot is open, he has to hold it for a couple second to convert the play back into an ISO situation. I also very rarely see him cut to the rim when he doesn't have the ball.

Obviously a better table setter would maybe encourage more of that, but for as much criticism as Smart gets he seems to be a pretty willing and able passer with most other guys on the team, especially the second unit. Everyone just takes for granted that it's "easier" to scorer off the ball. In reality it takes an entirely different skill set both physically and mentally. I don't see that in Tatum's game. Any extended time off the ball for him and I think we're reducing his impact. For him to maximize his potential he needs to be a point forward type IMO.

Fair critiques. Though I've seen Brad do things with PGs that I didn't think he could do in this system. As for Tatum, I just see the toll that being both the primary scorer AND playmaker would place on him. I mean, we do actually run a motion, read n react system here. You're 100% right about the mindset. And when you're a younger player who's had the ball a lot in their career it can be a difficult transition. But I'm not suggesting that the ball be taken completely out of his hands. Just that a middle ground be found that allows him to read n react OFF the ball, and cut to get a few layups that will open up the rest of his game. Really not much different than what he's being asked to do now. The Rubio type is for the benefit of everyone else. I think when Tatum is at the peak of his powers, he's gonna be able to score whenever he wants. But the rest of the team will need guys that can help make the game easier for them. Rubio is a smart veteran player but he's just an example of a guy I think could fit. George Hill or DJ Augistin I think would do well here also. Maybe Paddy Mills.

[hugepatsfan]

As long as the Celts have Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown then I don't see why the Celts won't be a contender every season until 2031.

So I agree with your statement on the face of it. But until they each sign their name on the dotted line for their next contracts after the extensions they've already signed, any talk of a 10 year window is premature. You just can't take that for granted. I think we're also seeing this year that there are different degrees of contending. We're a good team and worth watching the playoffs for the possibility of a deep run, but we are not a favorite. If we don't make the moves to become a favorite, then there is a good chance that Tatum and/or Brown sign elsewhere on their next deals. That's the reality of the NBA.

Of course the 10-year window is not possible if Tatum and Brown leave.

But there's just no reason for those 2 to leave Boston.

Money won't be an issue.

The situation in Boston would have to be really awful for those 2 to leave.

I disagree that there is "no reason" for them to leave. Look at how we've played this year. This roster, even with them on it, is not CHAMPIONSHIP caliber. Unless moves are made for it to become so, it becomes the most likely scenario that they leave.

Players force their way off of playoff teams every year to go to CHAMPIONSHIP teams. There's zero reason to think Tatum and/or Brown are going to re-sign here unless we offer them a supporting cast that gives them a legitimate shot to compete for titles. We currently do not offer that based on performance this year.

Your last sentence that the situation has to be "awful" for them to leave is just completely in conflict with everything that has happened in the NBA for the last decade. Players don't just leave awful situations. They frequently leave situations that aren't their best bet for a championship.

[keevsnick1]

So I agree with your statement on the face of it. But until they each sign their name on the dotted line for their next contracts after the extensions they've already signed, any talk of a 10 year window is premature. You just can't take that for granted. I think we're also seeing this year that there are different degrees of contending. We're a good team and worth watching the playoffs for the possibility of a deep run, but we are not a favorite. If we don't make the moves to become a favorite, then there is a good chance that Tatum and/or Brown sign elsewhere on their next deals. That's the reality of the NBA.

Of course the 10-year window is not possible if Tatum and Brown leave.

But there's just no reason for those 2 to leave Boston.

Money won't be an issue.

The situation in Boston would have to be really awful for those 2 to leave.

I disagree that there is "no reason" for them to leave. Look at how we've played this year. This roster, even with them on it, is not CHAMPIONSHIP caliber. Unless moves are made for it to become so, it becomes the most likely scenario that they leave.

Players force their way off of playoff teams every year to go to CHAMPIONSHIP teams. There's zero reason to think Tatum and/or Brown are going to re-sign here unless we offer them a supporting cast that gives them a legitimate shot to compete for titles. We currently do not offer that based on performance this year.

Your last sentence that the situation has to be "awful" for them to leave is just completely in conflict with everything that has happened in the NBA for the last decade. Players don't just leave awful situations. They frequently leave situations that aren't their best bet for a championship.

We were in the ECF last year with basically the same team considering Hayward missed those playoffs. Tatum/Brown have 3/4 years left after this year, and I think you'd expect them each to continue to get at least a little better. The only bad contract we have is Kemba, and he's tradeable probably after next year as an expiring and is still a positive impact guy. We have young guys who could pop and all our picks.

Sure, if we continue to he a .500 team going forward they might leave. But I think that's fairly unlikely. Hell I think if you just bring the same team back next year theres a good chance they are a lot better between improvement from young players, no covid, and a slight bounce back from walker.

[hugepatsfan]

Of course the 10-year window is not possible if Tatum and Brown leave.

But there's just no reason for those 2 to leave Boston.

Money won't be an issue.

The situation in Boston would have to be really awful for those 2 to leave.

I disagree that there is "no reason" for them to leave. Look at how we've played this year. This roster, even with them on it, is not CHAMPIONSHIP caliber. Unless moves are made for it to become so, it becomes the most likely scenario that they leave.

Players force their way off of playoff teams every year to go to CHAMPIONSHIP teams. There's zero reason to think Tatum and/or Brown are going to re-sign here unless we offer them a supporting cast that gives them a legitimate shot to compete for titles. We currently do not offer that based on performance this year.

Your last sentence that the situation has to be "awful" for them to leave is just completely in conflict with everything that has happened in the NBA for the last decade. Players don't just leave awful situations. They frequently leave situations that aren't their best bet for a championship.

We were in the ECF last year with basically the same team considering Hayward missed those playoffs. Tatum/Brown have 3/4 years left after this year, and I think you'd expect them each to continue to get at least a little better. The only bad contract we have is Kemba, and he's tradeable probably after next year as an expiring and is still a positive impact guy. We have young guys who could pop and all our picks.

Sure, if we continue to he a .500 team going forward they might leave. But I think that's fairly unlikely. Hell I think if you just bring the same team back next year theres a good chance they are a lot better between improvement from young players, no covid, and a slight bounce back from walker.

ECF is nice but it's not the goal. Their goal will be to sign with someone in position to win championships. Think of LAL with Lebron and AD. BRK with KD/Harden/Kyrie. That's the type of team we need to have to feel good about re-signing Tatum and Brown, IMO. Because if we aren't offering them that type of roster if they re-sign, then in the modern NBA there's a good chance they force their way somewhere else either through trade or FA where they are joining forces to form that type of roster. That's just how the game is now.

[keevsnick1]

I disagree that there is "no reason" for them to leave. Look at how we've played this year. This roster, even with them on it, is not CHAMPIONSHIP caliber. Unless moves are made for it to become so, it becomes the most likely scenario that they leave.

Players force their way off of playoff teams every year to go to CHAMPIONSHIP teams. There's zero reason to think Tatum and/or Brown are going to re-sign here unless we offer them a supporting cast that gives them a legitimate shot to compete for titles. We currently do not offer that based on performance this year.

Your last sentence that the situation has to be "awful" for them to leave is just completely in conflict with everything that has happened in the NBA for the last decade. Players don't just leave awful situations. They frequently leave situations that aren't their best bet for a championship.

We were in the ECF last year with basically the same team considering Hayward missed those playoffs. Tatum/Brown have 3/4 years left after this year, and I think you'd expect them each to continue to get at least a little better. The only bad contract we have is Kemba, and he's tradeable probably after next year as an expiring and is still a positive impact guy. We have young guys who could pop and all our picks.

Sure, if we continue to he a .500 team going forward they might leave. But I think that's fairly unlikely. Hell I think if you just bring the same team back next year theres a good chance they are a lot better between improvement from young players, no covid, and a slight bounce back from walker.

ECF is nice but it's not the goal. Their goal will be to sign with someone in position to win championships. Think of LAL with Lebron and AD. BRK with KD/Harden/Kyrie. That's the type of team we need to have to feel good about re-signing Tatum and Brown, IMO. Because if we aren't offering them that type of roster if they re-sign, then in the modern NBA there's a good chance they force their way somewhere else either through trade or FA where they are joining forces to form that type of roster. That's just how the game is now.

Ya my point is we're really close. The fatalism on this board is crazy. The coach is really good, the front office is respected, they we've already got them each paired with one other star level guy thier own age, and the team has been to the ECF twice in thier time. Also, not for nothing, we will be able to offer more money.

I mean arguably we've done more than say MIL did to keep Giannis. So let's just keep some perspective here. This isnt the NOP with Davis. Or Harden on HOU where clearly the team has no future. Yes, they could walk. But realistically we'd have to see the next two years be equally as bad as this one and even if all that changes is health i'd find it hard to believe.

I dont really worry that much about them forcing thier way out btw. Generally that comes from guys on teams with NO chance. Thers a certain pattern here. Boston would have to suck at least two straight years. Then the front office changes coaches and that fails. Then Ainge packages like 3 picks for another star and that fails. Ect ect. Right now I think we are several steps from seriously worrying about Brown or tatum leaving.

[Hal14]

A ten year window in today’s nba?

As long as the Celts have Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown then I don't see why the Celts won't be a contender every season until 2031.

So I agree with your statement on the face of it. But until they each sign their name on the dotted line for their next contracts after the extensions they've already signed, any talk of a 10 year window is premature. You just can't take that for granted. I think we're also seeing this year that there are different degrees of contending. We're a good team and worth watching the playoffs for the possibility of a deep run, but we are not a favorite. If we don't make the moves to become a favorite, then there is a good chance that Tatum and/or Brown sign elsewhere on their next deals. That's the reality of the NBA.

Or Tatum/Brown could be traded before even getting to their extensions.

You never know. Any player could be traded at any time, unless it's after the trade deadline. But this offseason, one of them could be traded, probably won't happen, but you never know..

[Hal14]

This team needs a floor manager. Maybe more than interior help. We need someone who can break teams down in the half court and make better decisions in transition.

Smart is too slow to get consistent separation in half court sets. He's a decent decision maker but we need someone who really forces the defense to collapse. Jaylen and Tatum simply turn the ball over too much when they try to take on this role.

I'm thinking like Rondo addition to the Clips.

Is there a way to turn Kemba into Lonzo? That's the kind of move I'm looking for.

Rondo and Ball were the 2 guys I was hoping we would get!

I don't see why Kemba couldn't be turned into Ball. It's really up to where Ball wants to play. He can sign with any team under the cap, he can stay or he can probably have a sign and trade made to any team that wants him. So if he wants to come here I don't see why not. The next question would be if they want Kemba and his salary or not. If not a 3rd team is needed. But the trade value of someone leaving in a sign and trade can't be that high. If he wants to come here I think we could do it and keep the core of JT JB MS RW and fournier and hopefully PP and Romeo too. Kemba Nesmith a pick and end of bench guys should be more than enough to get a guy who wants to leave anyways. Just Kemba alone should be more than enough if we wants to come here.

But he probably doesn't want to come here. If he did we could have told someone to tell us that and we could have traded Kemba for him at the deadline. I'm guessing he stays or goes to LA NY or Miami.

He probably won't want to come here if Kemba is still on the roster and still under contract through the 2022-2023 season. He's gonna want to go where he is guaranteed the starting PG job..

[Ernest]

This team needs a floor manager. Maybe more than interior help. We need someone who can break teams down in the half court and make better decisions in transition.

Smart is too slow to get consistent separation in half court sets. He's a decent decision maker but we need someone who really forces the defense to collapse. Jaylen and Tatum simply turn the ball over too much when they try to take on this role.

I'm thinking like Rondo addition to the Clips.

Is there a way to turn Kemba into Lonzo? That's the kind of move I'm looking for.

Rondo and Ball were the 2 guys I was hoping we would get!

I don't see why Kemba couldn't be turned into Ball. It's really up to where Ball wants to play. He can sign with any team under the cap, he can stay or he can probably have a sign and trade made to any team that wants him. So if he wants to come here I don't see why not. The next question would be if they want Kemba and his salary or not. If not a 3rd team is needed. But the trade value of someone leaving in a sign and trade can't be that high. If he wants to come here I think we could do it and keep the core of JT JB MS RW and fournier and hopefully PP and Romeo too. Kemba Nesmith a pick and end of bench guys should be more than enough to get a guy who wants to leave anyways. Just Kemba alone should be more than enough if we wants to come here.

But he probably doesn't want to come here. If he did we could have told someone to tell us that and we could have traded Kemba for him at the deadline. I'm guessing he stays or goes to LA NY or Miami.

He probably won't want to come here if Kemba is still on the roster and still under contract through the 2022-2023 season. He's gonna want to go where he is guaranteed the starting PG job..

Yeah for sure. I kind of just want to give Smart the sole point guard job (keep PP as a backup) but if we could get Ball I feel like he is tall enough and good enough on D to be worthwhile.

[winsomme2]

Rondo and Ball were the 2 guys I was hoping we would get!

I don't see why Kemba couldn't be turned into Ball. It's really up to where Ball wants to play. He can sign with any team under the cap, he can stay or he can probably have a sign and trade made to any team that wants him. So if he wants to come here I don't see why not. The next question would be if they want Kemba and his salary or not. If not a 3rd team is needed. But the trade value of someone leaving in a sign and trade can't be that high. If he wants to come here I think we could do it and keep the core of JT JB MS RW and fournier and hopefully PP and Romeo too. Kemba Nesmith a pick and end of bench guys should be more than enough to get a guy who wants to leave anyways. Just Kemba alone should be more than enough if we wants to come here.

But he probably doesn't want to come here. If he did we could have told someone to tell us that and we could have traded Kemba for him at the deadline. I'm guessing he stays or goes to LA NY or Miami.

He probably won't want to come here if Kemba is still on the roster and still under contract through the 2022-2023 season. He's gonna want to go where he is guaranteed the starting PG job..

Yeah for sure. I kind of just want to give Smart the sole point guard job (keep PP as a backup) but if we could get Ball I feel like he is tall enough and good enough on D to be worthwhile.

I like Marcus. I just think we need someone at PG with more speed who can really challenge defenses and force them to react.

There are so many young talented PGs in the league right now, and I get jealous watching them destroy opposing defenses. Last night, Garland and Sexton were forces.

We should be able to get someone in here that would make The Js jobs WAY easier. They simply have to work too hard to score. Danny bringing in the right guy could totally transform our offense.

I'm not looking to completely take the ball out of Jaylen and Tatum's hands, but if they could get the ball when the opposing defense is already scrambling, they would consistently get MUCH better shots and probably get to the free throw line a lot more too.

[Curmudgeon]

Smart doesn't take the ball out of Jason and Jaylen's hands; he puts the ball into their hands. Smart is by far the team's best passer.

As for the deadline, I don't think they could have done much better than Jabari Parker. I was down on him for his bad defense, but he has been reasonably competent at that end, albeit for only two games.

[Hal14]

Smart doesn't take the ball out of Jason and Jaylen's hands; he puts the ball into their hands. Smart is by far the team's best passer.

Which is why Smart is a good complimentary piece for this team.

But he's not a PG. He's much better suited for SG.

He struggles to bring the ball up the court and set up offense against pressure defense.

[Curmudgeon]

No he doesn't. He has a better assist to turnover ration than Walker, Tatum, Brown or Pritchard. So who else do you want to bring the ball up? By the way, Smart turns the ball over less than Chris Paul.

[Ernest]

The Smart hate is bonkers. He's the only guy consistantly getting the ball into the paint. Too many times we don't get past the 3 point line until there is like 3 seconds left in the clock. Smart puts his head down and gets close to the basket. You'd think he wouldn't be able to make the passes out of that but he does. We don't have a Rondo or Stockton type player that is a traditional 1 looking to set people up all the time, but Smart is the closets to that we have.

[poopship]

The Smart hate is bonkers. He's the only guy consistantly getting the ball into the paint. Too many times we don't get past the 3 point line until there is like 3 seconds left in the clock. Smart puts his head down and gets close to the basket. You'd think he wouldn't be able to make the passes out of that but he does. We don't have a Rondo or Stockton type player that is a traditional 1 looking to set people up all the time, but Smart is the closets to that we have.

He's 4th on the team in drives per game.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/drives/?sort=DRIVES&dir=1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612738

[Ernest]

The Smart hate is bonkers. He's the only guy consistantly getting the ball into the paint. Too many times we don't get past the 3 point line until there is like 3 seconds left in the clock. Smart puts his head down and gets close to the basket. You'd think he wouldn't be able to make the passes out of that but he does. We don't have a Rondo or Stockton type player that is a traditional 1 looking to set people up all the time, but Smart is the closets to that we have.

He's 4th on the team in drives per game.

https://www.nba.com/stats/players/drives/?sort=DRIVES&dir=1&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612738

Yeah but he's got to be first in assists right? Just watch the games, no one else is really looking to drive and kick it.