Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2

[TheStig]

So sick of talk of Lonzo Fraking Ball. You do not overpay that guy, just like you don’t overpay Lauri. If you think we’re screwed now...oh boy. Let’s throw $20-25mm at Lonzo Ball, and the see what screwed really means.

I think the Ball talk comes in that he's attainable, available, an upgrade at a position of need and is young. The Bulls need upgrades to improve and moved up their timeline with vuc. I'd rather have Steph Curry but he's not available to us.

[sco]

So sick of talk of Lonzo Fraking Ball. You do not overpay that guy, just like you don’t overpay Lauri. If you think we’re screwed now...oh boy. Let’s throw $20-25mm at Lonzo Ball, and the see what screwed really means.

I think the Ball talk comes in that he's attainable, available, an upgrade at a position of need and is young. The Bulls need upgrades to improve and moved up their timeline with vuc. I'd rather have Steph Curry but he's not available to us.

I know we are grasping for straws with the Ball thing, but IMO, there's no realistic way we're gutting the roster to make the space to pay him. Personally, I'd rather overpay Lauri (with the hope he improves or is tradeable in the future) - which is almost always a bad choice.

[TheStig]

So sick of talk of Lonzo Fraking Ball. You do not overpay that guy, just like you don’t overpay Lauri. If you think we’re screwed now...oh boy. Let’s throw $20-25mm at Lonzo Ball, and the see what screwed really means.

I think the Ball talk comes in that he's attainable, available, an upgrade at a position of need and is young. The Bulls need upgrades to improve and moved up their timeline with vuc. I'd rather have Steph Curry but he's not available to us.

I know we are grasping for straws with the Ball thing, but IMO, there's no realistic way we're gutting the roster to make the space to pay him. Personally, I'd rather overpay Lauri (with the hope he improves or is tradeable in the future) - which is almost always a bad choice.

I don't see the FA route working out for us this offseason. Our best bet to improve the team is via trade and the MLE. You can bring everyone back and have the full MLE and work out a deal for someone you like from a team selling.

[sco]

I think the Ball talk comes in that he's attainable, available, an upgrade at a position of need and is young. The Bulls need upgrades to improve and moved up their timeline with vuc. I'd rather have Steph Curry but he's not available to us.

I know we are grasping for straws with the Ball thing, but IMO, there's no realistic way we're gutting the roster to make the space to pay him. Personally, I'd rather overpay Lauri (with the hope he improves or is tradeable in the future) - which is almost always a bad choice.

I don't see the FA route working out for us this offseason. Our best bet to improve the team is via trade and the MLE. You can bring everyone back and have the full MLE and work out a deal for someone you like from a team selling.

Yeah, agree!

[WindyCityBorn]

I know we are grasping for straws with the Ball thing, but IMO, there's no realistic way we're gutting the roster to make the space to pay him. Personally, I'd rather overpay Lauri (with the hope he improves or is tradeable in the future) - which is almost always a bad choice.

I don't see the FA route working out for us this offseason. Our best bet to improve the team is via trade and the MLE. You can bring everyone back and have the full MLE and work out a deal for someone you like from a team selling.

Yeah, agree!

However we do it we cannot just come back with the exact same team and expect much different results.

[TheStig]

I don't see the FA route working out for us this offseason. Our best bet to improve the team is via trade and the MLE. You can bring everyone back and have the full MLE and work out a deal for someone you like from a team selling.

Yeah, agree!

However we do it we cannot just come back with the exact same team and expect much different results.

Unless AKME can find a way to swing a sneak move like they did with Vic, it's likely the same team and an MLE signing. There is just not a lot of assets they have.

[sco]

Yeah, agree!

However we do it we cannot just come back with the exact same team and expect much different results.

Unless AKME can find a way to swing a sneak move like they did with Vic, it's likely the same team and an MLE signing. There is just not a lot of assets they have.

We are better not having Carter out there. We would be much better with White not being our starting or bench PG (unless he massively improves in the offseason).

Back on the Lauri front, I am not of the mind that we will be better because he leaves. Prior to the trades, when we could have nabbed a better FA if we didn't spend the $ on a Lauri contract, I was definitely of that mind. I think Ball would have made us better than Lauri can. Post trade, we picked up Vuc, and Theis - who, IMO, is better than Lauri at filling our needs at PF alongside Vuc. So if we need to choose, I'd definitely choose Theis over Lauri, but I feel like the new choice is matching Lauri's deal (which could be a reasonable $15M) and hoping he improves. Thad may be gone after next season and a 3some of Lauri, Theis, Vuc isn't bad. The opportunity cost of keeping Lauri, in terms of other players could get is much lower now.

[WindyCityBorn]

However we do it we cannot just come back with the exact same team and expect much different results.

Unless AKME can find a way to swing a sneak move like they did with Vic, it's likely the same team and an MLE signing. There is just not a lot of assets they have.

We are better not having Carter out there. We would be much better with White not being our starting or bench PG (unless he massively improves in the offseason).

Back on the Lauri front, I am not of the mind that we will be better because he leaves. Prior to the trades, when we could have nabbed a better FA if we didn't spend the $ on a Lauri contract, I was definitely of that mind. I think Ball would have made us better than Lauri can. Post trade, we picked up Vuc, and Theis - who, IMO, is better than Lauri at filling our needs at PF alongside Vuc. So if we need to choose, I'd definitely choose Theis over Lauri, but I feel like the new choice is matching Lauri's deal (which could be a reasonable $15M) and hoping he improves. Thad may be gone after next season and a 3some of Lauri, Theis, Vuc isn't bad. The opportunity cost of keeping Lauri, in terms of other players could get is much lower now.

Yeah I think keeping Lauri becomes much more realistic if we cannot make any moves in free agency.

[WindyCityBorn]

Yeah, agree!

However we do it we cannot just come back with the exact same team and expect much different results.

Unless AKME can find a way to swing a sneak move like they did with Vic, it's likely the same team and an MLE signing. There is just not a lot of assets they have.

Well he flat out says said he wasn’t done so he better have something clever in mind.

[TheStig]

However we do it we cannot just come back with the exact same team and expect much different results.

Unless AKME can find a way to swing a sneak move like they did with Vic, it's likely the same team and an MLE signing. There is just not a lot of assets they have.

Well he flat out says said he wasn’t done so he better have something clever in mind.

It's great in theory, he's gonna have to do it in practice. The cubbard was full (of meh stuff) but now it's fairly empty.

[kingkirk]

I was just saying that if you can't make a big move to add talent, then you better give the money to Zach.

Problem is that signing Lauri takes all the cap space or you need to dump Thad/Sato/Lauri to get someone. So it makes it very difficult to add someone.

It's almost like it has to be via trade due to the limited FA's and people we'd have to dump.

If they're planning to re-sing Lauri, thus keeping his cap hold / new deal on the books, it's very unlikely that they will create the necessary space to re-sign LaVine, who probably doesn't want to do that, anyway.

The above is why trading Lauri makes the most sense for the Bulls, followed by letting him walk.

You don't think Lavine wants an extra 10 million next year and a max extension?

I don't know what their plan is. Is there really a better option for Lauri's cap hit? His value is hurt. Maybe all he gets is low offers and they bring him back. If they keep Sato and Thad, what do they have to spend? The MLE range?

He stands to make significantly more if he waits and he has all the leverage.

So, no, I don't think he signs the extension.

[TheStig]

If they're planning to re-sing Lauri, thus keeping his cap hold / new deal on the books, it's very unlikely that they will create the necessary space to re-sign LaVine, who probably doesn't want to do that, anyway.

The above is why trading Lauri makes the most sense for the Bulls, followed by letting him walk.

You don't think Lavine wants an extra 10 million next year and a max extension?

I don't know what their plan is. Is there really a better option for Lauri's cap hit? His value is hurt. Maybe all he gets is low offers and they bring him back. If they keep Sato and Thad, what do they have to spend? The MLE range?

He stands to make significantly more if he waits and he has all the leverage.

So, no, I don't think he signs the extension.

How does he make more? If he waits he makes 19.5 next year. If he signs the extension and we use our cap space, he makes 29.5 mill next year and then the same max after that.

I think you're confusing a regular extension and using cap space to give him a raise and then a max extenstion.

This way, he makes the most out of all the options.

[Robin Jones]

There is a lot of discussion about this topic. Some comments very relevant, some missing the target.

One thing is certain. Markkanen is not the culprit for the Bulls losses since the major trades.

For sure, his overall stats, especially scoring stats, have not been great, but when analysing the plus and minus stats of all the 12 games played since the trade, the team has played much better Markkanen on the court than off it.

PLUS/MINUS OF THE CORE PLAYERS SINCE THE TRADES - 12 GAMES
(From the 28th March San Antonio game until 17th April Memphis game. Total of 9 losses and 3 wins.)

Markkanen -3
Vucevic -95
Theis -32
Young +3
Lavine -8
White -19
Williams -100
Sato -57.

Just sayin.

(And yes, I understand that +/- is just one stat, and has its flaws, but still, the sample of 12 games tells already something.)

UPDATE: Sample size of 13 games:

Markkanen +11
Vucevic -79
Theis -36
Young -3
Lavine -8
White -11
Williams -97
Sato -53

UPDATE: Sample size of 15 games. Temple, Brown and Valentine added.:

Markkanen +15
Vucevic -97
Theis -53
Young -3
Lavine -8
White -16
Williams -93
Sato -53
Temple -30
Brown +67
Valentine -30

It seems that it makes some sense to give Lauri minutes.

Brown has the best +/- of all after the major trade. Perhaps he could have helped yesterday as well?

[Louri]

Read on Twitter

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[GoBlue72391]

Read on Twitter

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Even worse than AK snubbing him is the fact that the Bulls PR team seemingly intentionally brought attention to it. He's as good as gone, if it wasn't obvious before.

Regardless of the FO's feelings toward him as a future piece, that's pretty damn classless to do that, and even more classless to post it to social media in such an obvious fashion. I thought we're trying to create a more inviting, player friendly culture? Free agents will see that.

Sent from my SM-S115DL using RealGM mobile app

[GrowingHorns]

Well yeah... It's obviously FU Chicago Bulls on my behalf. This was it. No mas. Could care less this **** organization... It's OK to move on from players but clowning them like this is...

[Robin Jones]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Even worse than AK snubbing him is the fact that the Bulls PR team seemingly intentionally brought attention to it. He's as good as gone, if it wasn't obvious before.

Regardless of the FO's feelings toward him as a future piece, that's pretty damn classless to do that, and even more classless to post it to social media in such an obvious fashion. I thought we're trying to create a more inviting, player friendly culture? Free agents will see that.

Sent from my SM-S115DL using RealGM mobile app

Exactly!

The title could have been: "Got the snub" to underline what the PR guys were doing.

[Robin Jones]

There is a lot of discussion about this topic. Some comments very relevant, some missing the target.

One thing is certain. Markkanen is not the culprit for the Bulls losses since the major trades.

For sure, his overall stats, especially scoring stats, have not been great, but when analysing the plus and minus stats of all the 12 games played since the trade, the team has played much better Markkanen on the court than off it.

PLUS/MINUS OF THE CORE PLAYERS SINCE THE TRADES - 12 GAMES
(From the 28th March San Antonio game until 17th April Memphis game. Total of 9 losses and 3 wins.)

Markkanen -3
Vucevic -95
Theis -32
Young +3
Lavine -8
White -19
Williams -100
Sato -57.

Just sayin.

(And yes, I understand that +/- is just one stat, and has its flaws, but still, the sample of 12 games tells already something.)

UPDATE: Sample size of 13 games:

Markkanen +11
Vucevic -79
Theis -36
Young -3
Lavine -8
White -11
Williams -97
Sato -53

UPDATE: Sample size of 15 games. Temple, Brown and Valentine added.:

Markkanen +15
Vucevic -97
Theis -53
Young -3
Lavine -8
White -16
Williams -93
Sato -53
Temple -30
Brown +67
Valentine -30

It seems that it makes some sense to give Lauri minutes.

Brown has the best +/- of all after the major trade. Perhaps he could have helped yesterday as well?

UPDATE: Sample size of 16 games.

Markkanen +22
Vucevic -73
Theis -47
Young +13
Lavine -8
White +9
Williams -86
Sato -58
Temple -10
Brown +67
Valentine -31

[Neonblazer]

Read on Twitter

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So I guess Lauri said "no" to all of those S&T suggestions.

[CobyWhite0]

Read on Twitter

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Even worse than AK snubbing him is the fact that the Bulls PR team seemingly intentionally brought attention to it. He's as good as gone, if it wasn't obvious before.

Regardless of the FO's feelings toward him as a future piece, that's pretty damn classless to do that, and even more classless to post it to social media in such an obvious fashion. I thought we're trying to create a more inviting, player friendly culture? Free agents will see that.

Sent from my SM-S115DL using RealGM mobile app

Y'all are joking, right? Vuc didn't get an AK fist bump either, how come nobody is offended by that?