WISEMAN EXPECTATIONS: Year 1

[WarriorGM]

I feel like the idea of a team being good/bad at developing players is an incredibly overrated topic. Sure, there are coaches/front offices that may treat young players different... but all these teams have the resources for a young player to improve as much as they are capable of doing.

Bell looked much better his first year than in succeeding years. Seems like it is going that way with Smailagic too. If it's a matter of lack of talent, they shouldn't look good then start looking worse. With Damian Jones I got the feeling they suddenly gave up on him after he got injured.

Bell and Jones showed some promise of getting better—then they were sidelined. Then they were tossed into the middle of the finals where they looked horrid. Some will say that justified getting rid of them. I got the feeling they were being set up to fail.

They looked better to me than Wiseman was this year, yet Wiseman got more opportunities and minutes. I don't get what the coaching staff is doing. Boucher from what I can tell got to play play play even if it was only in the G-League.

[shazam_guy]

If people are going to say that bad play from draftees is bad drafting or bad development by the Ws, that suggests that the Warriors are doing worse than other teams at those things, but you can't make that statement in a vacuum. How DID all the other teams that are supposedly doing it right actually do? For instance, the Hornets may have hit on LaMelo Ball, but they've been famously atrocious for years at drafting and development.

As I think I posted here once before, when you go down the list of San Antonio draft selections (the Spurs are frequently held up as the league's gold standard) there are a surprising amount of failures on their list. But nobody seems willing to do the work for actual team against team development/drafting, but instead cherry-pick player vs. player to support their points, often on a very brief timeline (like Ball vs. Wiseman now, or Jordan Poole last year and the beginning of this year) and then claim victory for their point of view. If you think the Warriors did a terrible job with most of their drafts, fine -- show me all the other teams who consistently did better so I can see some proof.

Drafts are crap shoots, except for a few can't-miss prospects at the top. Compare the Warriors to other teams, by all means, but do it comprehensively. Maybe some of you are right and the Warriors have a big problem, but the arguments being offered here prove little to me except that some people are way too impressed with their own expertise and like to state their opinions as if they were facts.

[Warriors Analyst]

I feel like the idea of a team being good/bad at developing players is an incredibly overrated topic. Sure, there are coaches/front offices that may treat young players different... but all these teams have the resources for a young player to improve as much as they are capable of doing.

Bell looked much better his first year than in succeeding years. Seems like it is going that way with Smailagic too. If it's a matter of lack of talent, they shouldn't look good then start looking worse. With Damian Jones I got the feeling they suddenly gave up on him after he got injured.

Bell and Jones showed some promise of getting better—then they were sidelined. Then they were tossed into the middle of the finals where they looked horrid. Some will say that justified getting rid of them. I got the feeling they were being set up to fail.

They looked better to me than Wiseman was this year, yet Wiseman got more opportunities and minutes. I don't get what the coaching staff is doing. Boucher from what I can tell got to play play play even if it was only in the G-League.

This is such a dumb hill to die on. Bell looked about the same in his second year as he did his first. The main issue with him was attitude. Jones looked terrible BEFORE he got injured. Steph went down and Jones turned into a pumpkin, which goes back to the theory that it's really not that hard to be an effective rim runner with Steph and the KD Warriors, but said rim runner may very well be terrible outside of that role. Bell looked fine in the Finals. I don't know why you think Bell and Jones were set up to fail when in reality they were both given countless opportunities to take the starting role and did not capitalize on them.

[WarriorGM]

I don't know why you think Bell and Jones were set up to fail when in reality they were both given countless opportunities to take the starting role and did not capitalize on them.

Wiseman has already played more NBA regular season minutes with the Warriors than Jones in all three years he was with the team combined and more than Bell did in any single year.

I bring this up only in part to express disappointment that more couldn't have been made out of them but mainly to illustrate the illogical process at work with the team when it comes to player development of athletic bigs.

[Twinkie defense]

I feel like the idea of a team being good/bad at developing players is an incredibly overrated topic. Sure, there are coaches/front offices that may treat young players different... but all these teams have the resources for a young player to improve as much as they are capable of doing.

The Warriors didnt "not develop" guys like Jones and Nedovic. They just drafted bad basketball players. Is Poole being developed better or worse than Jacob Evans? No, Poole is just a better player that puts in the work and has the mentality of a player that thinks he should be great.

When Jordan "broke" Kwame, he didn't ruin Kwame's career arc. He was 23 when he got to LA, still plenty of time to figure out what went wrong, and he still just became what he ultimately was always going to be... a big guy without the mentality or work ethic to be anything more than a rotation big body. So maybe he has a slightly better few years early if he gets drafted somewhere that coddles him, but its not like it goes from "jordan broke him" to "wow he's an all star".

I used to believe that players could not be developed, they could either play or they could not play. And then I learned about Ron Adams. And more recently, Kris Weems and Chris DeMarco. Of course not every player has the ability to develop.

[Twinkie defense]

Bell looked much better his first year than in succeeding years. Seems like it is going that way with Smailagic too. If it's a matter of lack of talent, they shouldn't look good then start looking worse. With Damian Jones I got the feeling they suddenly gave up on him after he got injured.

Bell and Jones showed some promise of getting better—then they were sidelined. Then they were tossed into the middle of the finals where they looked horrid. Some will say that justified getting rid of them. I got the feeling they were being set up to fail.

Bell didn't take his craft seriously. He was warned multiple times, and then he bought a bunch of crap from room service and put it on Mike Brown's tab, and that was pretty much the end of Jordan Bell.

[Twinkie defense]

Regarding Juan Toscano, Ron Adams has worked with him a lot on his shot. When JTA had the big scoring game a week or so ago, he immediately ran to Ron Adams on the sideline to show him some love. Weems was JTA's guy with the Sea Dubs.

Jordan Poole was kind of a wreck last year. Ethan Strauss wrote a long profile in the Athletic recently about how Weems and the Warriors drilled him on speeding up his decision-making. NBA moves a lot faster than college ball. Warriors drilled Poole on making a decision - shoot, pass, drive - in a half second or less.

Kevon Looney has developed into a stellar defender with the Warriors over his time here.

Again, not everyone can be developed. But Warriors have turned into a place where former high picks who are verging on being busts come to rehabilitate their games - Marquese Chriss is a recent example. Before him, Javale McGee.

[Twinkie defense]

BTW Kevin Durant cites Ron Adams as a huge part of making him the player he is.

[Twinkie defense]

I think Wiggins has become a much better player this year than he was on the T-Wolves. Is that just him maturing as a player?

[whatisacenter]

Ron Adams is one of the top assistants you can have on a coaching staff. Brown, Fraser and Collins aren't chumps either.

[michaelm]

I feel like the idea of a team being good/bad at developing players is an incredibly overrated topic. Sure, there are coaches/front offices that may treat young players different... but all these teams have the resources for a young player to improve as much as they are capable of doing.

Bell looked much better his first year than in succeeding years. Seems like it is going that way with Smailagic too. If it's a matter of lack of talent, they shouldn't look good then start looking worse. With Damian Jones I got the feeling they suddenly gave up on him after he got injured.

Bell and Jones showed some promise of getting better—then they were sidelined. Then they were tossed into the middle of the finals where they looked horrid. Some will say that justified getting rid of them. I got the feeling they were being set up to fail.

They looked better to me than Wiseman was this year, yet Wiseman got more opportunities and minutes. I don't get what the coaching staff is doing. Boucher from what I can tell got to play play play even if it was only in the G-League.

So how much money would you ask for from the Warriors ?. They could presumably pay you quite a lot, given you are apparently much better than both the incumbent GM and the incumbent head coach, perhaps you could combine the roles.

[WarriorGM]

I feel like the idea of a team being good/bad at developing players is an incredibly overrated topic. Sure, there are coaches/front offices that may treat young players different... but all these teams have the resources for a young player to improve as much as they are capable of doing.

Bell looked much better his first year than in succeeding years. Seems like it is going that way with Smailagic too. If it's a matter of lack of talent, they shouldn't look good then start looking worse. With Damian Jones I got the feeling they suddenly gave up on him after he got injured.

Bell and Jones showed some promise of getting better—then they were sidelined. Then they were tossed into the middle of the finals where they looked horrid. Some will say that justified getting rid of them. I got the feeling they were being set up to fail.

They looked better to me than Wiseman was this year, yet Wiseman got more opportunities and minutes. I don't get what the coaching staff is doing. Boucher from what I can tell got to play play play even if it was only in the G-League.

So how much money would you ask for from the Warriors ?. They could presumably pay you quite a lot, given you are apparently much better than both the incumbent GM and the incumbent head coach, perhaps you could combine the roles.

I'm not out to gouge anyone. I'm not terribly interested in doing their day-to-day tasks. Maybe a role along the lines Jerry West had. Market rate would be fine.

[EvanZ]

Melton was the highest guy on my board at that point. Too bad we passed on him.

[wco81]

So Ayton is having a good series, his first playoffs experience.

Last year they were hopeful that he was learning to be effective switched out in the perimeter but this season, he didn't do so well.

With the Suns success, their other young players like Booker, Bridges and Johnson were getting more pub than Ayton. Yet in this Lakers series, he's been at least their second best player, preventing the Lakers from dominating the boards.

Now can Wiseman do that in a year or two, with more muscle added and cutting down his game, concentrating on the boards? Consistent double doubles in the playoffs would be a huge help.

[Scoots1994]

So Ayton is having a good series, his first playoffs experience.

Last year they were hopeful that he was learning to be effective switched out in the perimeter but this season, he didn't do so well.

With the Suns success, their other young players like Booker, Bridges and Johnson were getting more pub than Ayton. Yet in this Lakers series, he's been at least their second best player, preventing the Lakers from dominating the boards.

Now can Wiseman do that in a year or two, with more muscle added and cutting down his game, concentrating on the boards? Consistent double doubles in the playoffs would be a huge help.

I'd say it's certainly possible, but he's got to be healthy and put in the work to get there.

[cpower]

So Ayton is having a good series, his first playoffs experience.

Last year they were hopeful that he was learning to be effective switched out in the perimeter but this season, he didn't do so well.

With the Suns success, their other young players like Booker, Bridges and Johnson were getting more pub than Ayton. Yet in this Lakers series, he's been at least their second best player, preventing the Lakers from dominating the boards.

Now can Wiseman do that in a year or two, with more muscle added and cutting down his game, concentrating on the boards? Consistent double doubles in the playoffs would be a huge help.

Ayton is battling with AD/Drummand/Gasol and held his own. Wiseman barely battle inside, he needs to learn to get position from Lonney first

[and1GS]

I actually agree with cpower for once. Wiseman needs to learn how to battle on the boards with fully grown men. He boards how I do when I'm tired in pickup. If the ball bounces into my hands, it's all mine. If it's somewhat near me, I will kinda sorta throw a limb toward it but if I feel any contact I'm probably giving up.

At that height in our offense you have to be an efficient rebounder. Right now he's getting the bunnies and phoning it in otherwise.

[Scoots1994]

I wonder if Wiseman will do something revolutionary in the modern NBA and actually box out?

Ayton is still CRAZY inconsistent. The number of single/single games he still has as a 1st overall big in his 3rd year is pretty bad.

Maybe this series will wake him up.

[cdubbz]

I wonder if Wiseman will do something revolutionary in the modern NBA and actually box out?

Ayton is still CRAZY inconsistent. The number of single/single games he still has as a 1st overall big in his 3rd year is pretty bad.

Maybe this series will wake him up.

He tricked you guys pre draft with his IG workouts of ball handling and guard drills

[whatisacenter]

I wonder if Wiseman will do something revolutionary in the modern NBA and actually box out?

Ayton is still CRAZY inconsistent. The number of single/single games he still has as a 1st overall big in his 3rd year is pretty bad.

Maybe this series will wake him up.

He tricked you guys pre draft with his IG workouts of ball handling and guard drills

Tricked? Every big needs to work on those aspects of his game to be anything of significance in the modern NBA. I just think he needs more minutes on the floor to let the game slow for him and to get stronger not necessarily bigger. It’s funny to me that so many Warriors’ fans have given up on JW already.