Lauri Markkanen Discussion Thread: PT 2

[Stratmaster]

You guys have lost your damn minds.

If you watch AK's press conferences he's clearly blinking out a message in morse code

Morse code? I thought he was using tap code.

So when I thought he was sending "Lauri is our best player" he was actually saying "Lauri get me a towel stat"

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[GrowingHorns]

Here's a question. Do we want players who perform well against the toughest competition?

I put together a spreadsheet to examine this very question. Here's what I found. Note that I only used Lauri and Coby's games as starters. The data may explain why so many of us are talking past each other.

Lauri has performed significantly better against the tougher competition, but those are also games that the Bulls usually struggled in and we typically lost. On the other hand, Lavine and Coby put up their best numbers against the weak competition and those are games we usually won. As fans we are more likely to relish in the games the Bulls won, thus Lauri's strong play against the best teams is diminished. As you look at the data below, Lauri easily out shines Lavine and Coby when the Bulls have played against teams that are at or above .500.

Against Below .500 Teams (Based on current record)
% of Games Played
Coby: 48%
Lavine: 47%
Lauri: 40%

Field Goal %
Lavine: .535
Lauri: .446
Coby: .436

3-Point %
Lavine: .462
Coby: .383
Lauri: .320

ORTG to DRTG AVG +-
Lavine: +9
Lauri: +2
Coby: -3


Against At or Above .500 Teams (Based on current record)
% of Games Played
Lauri: 60%
Lavine: 53%
Coby: 53%

Field Goal %
Lauri: .495
Lavine: .480
Coby: .391

3-Point %
Lauri: .417
Lavine: .373
Coby: .331

ORTG to DRTG AVG +-
Lauri: -3
Lavine: -8
Coby: -17

Could you, if not too much of a trouble, to let us know what's thei PER36 in points in these scenarios. Percents tell us a lot, but also, how much less or more they make points against tougher competition? And what's their usage been?

[Stratmaster]

As I've said before, I simply think it's a matter of Donovan (possibly with AK's blessing) shooting from the hip post trade, not necessarily thinking it through in terms of who gets to play, rotations, etc. and the implications of his decisions.

I don't think it was meant to be malicious, even though it came across as really hypocritical and douchy, because he benched the Bulls' second leading scorer who has played well this year, and has made big improvements on D, while keeping a kid rook in at 30 mpg, who at the time of Lauri's benching was playing like utter excrement on both sides of the ball and not deserving anything other than garbage time.

My biggest problem with that sequence of events was that you don't have enough time to experiment post-trade, especially if said experiment will probably result in "bridge burning" with a talented young player who can leave in 3 months. You have to sit down, actually think it through, see if there's a clever way to make it work and then commit to the strategy. If that means playing huge--OK, play huge with Lauri at the 3. What you can't do is just throw shyte at the wall that's obvious that it won't work and you're just praying for some sort of miracle (i.e. Thad starting, while getting 30%+ fewer touches than before).

You have to be smart and creative enough to get your best players enough time and reps on the court--what the hell are the owners paying you for otherwise?

We don't have enough vet talent to win right now. Our young talent that deserved minutes was... Lauri. That was it, at the time of his benching. It's great to see Coby finally managed to get himself back to not being horrible, but he had one of the worst stretches of ball I've seen in his life.

If your goal was to make the playoffs, benching Lauri, cutting his minutes by a third and his touches by as much is about the most under-thought thing you can do. Not because I'm a Lauri fan--but because I'm a Bulls fan. Lauri has it in him to have games the likes of which only Zach and Vuc can have on the current roster. And, he also has gravity, which is just as much of a team-wide deficit as efficient scoring.

To give away his minutes to less talented players, who on top of it all, are nowhere near his actual productivity, is just piss-poor decision-making, unless the overarching factor is office politics and not winning games.

Lauri is scoring 10 per game post demotion, on 27 touches (fewer than Pat's for context, and almost 3x fewer than Vuc's and Zach's) on 49/45/83 and 63% TS.

Right now, he's a VASTLY better player than Pat and Val, for example. On both sides of the ball. You're telling me we can't use that guy for 30+ minutes per game and we can't get him 40 touches and 12 shots, like before the trade? Are you kidding me? Shows a huge lack of imagination on the part of the coaching staff more so than anything else.

I think Lauri is done here as a guy who can move the needle. Maybe one in three games where he scores like 16 points on 7 shots in 18 minutes and the other coach does a Nick Nurse where he wonders aloud WTF are the Bulls doing with him. My prediction seems to be holding pretty well--intersperse some single digit games with some 16-18 point games for an average of 10ish. I don't see that changing going forward. Shame, really for everybody involved.

Lauri for not having it in him to go get his and Donovan and aides for being unable to find a way to use the third most talented player on the team for more than 20 min / game.

I have been so disappointed and therefore critical of Lauri. He has underperformed.

But I agree with everything in your post as well. It is ridiculous how he has been handled, and he still should be getting more minutes than the 2 players you mention.

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[E-DC]

Could you, if not too much of a trouble, to let us know what's thei PER36 in points in these scenarios. Percents tell us a lot, but also, how much less or more they make points against tougher competition? And what's their usage been?

I used the Game Logs from Basketball Reference, so I don't currently have the PER data. I did check the USG rates, but chose not to include them because there really weren't any significant differences that showed up. Lavine's USG was 30.4 against the weak competition and 32 against the tougher ones, Lauri was 22.9 and 21.8, and Coby was 22.9 and 22.3.

One other data point that jumped out was Lauri's assists per game. Against the weaker competition it was 0.4 APG, and against the tougher competition it was 1.3 APG.

[sco]

As I've said before, I simply think it's a matter of Donovan (possibly with AK's blessing) shooting from the hip post trade, not necessarily thinking it through in terms of who gets to play, rotations, etc. and the implications of his decisions.

I don't think it was meant to be malicious, even though it came across as really hypocritical and douchy, because he benched the Bulls' second leading scorer who has played well this year, and has made big improvements on D, while keeping a kid rook in at 30 mpg, who at the time of Lauri's benching was playing like utter excrement on both sides of the ball and not deserving anything other than garbage time.

My biggest problem with that sequence of events was that you don't have enough time to experiment post-trade, especially if said experiment will probably result in "bridge burning" with a talented young player who can leave in 3 months. You have to sit down, actually think it through, see if there's a clever way to make it work and then commit to the strategy. If that means playing huge--OK, play huge with Lauri at the 3. What you can't do is just throw shyte at the wall that's obvious that it won't work and you're just praying for some sort of miracle (i.e. Thad starting, while getting 30%+ fewer touches than before).

You have to be smart and creative enough to get your best players enough time and reps on the court--what the hell are the owners paying you for otherwise?

We don't have enough vet talent to win right now. Our young talent that deserved minutes was... Lauri. That was it, at the time of his benching. It's great to see Coby finally managed to get himself back to not being horrible, but he had one of the worst stretches of ball I've seen in his life.

If your goal was to make the playoffs, benching Lauri, cutting his minutes by a third and his touches by as much is about the most under-thought thing you can do. Not because I'm a Lauri fan--but because I'm a Bulls fan. Lauri has it in him to have games the likes of which only Zach and Vuc can have on the current roster. And, he also has gravity, which is just as much of a team-wide deficit as efficient scoring.

To give away his minutes to less talented players, who on top of it all, are nowhere near his actual productivity, is just piss-poor decision-making, unless the overarching factor is office politics and not winning games.

Lauri is scoring 10 per game post demotion, on 27 touches (fewer than Pat's for context, and almost 3x fewer than Vuc's and Zach's) on 49/45/83 and 63% TS.

Right now, he's a VASTLY better player than Pat and Val, for example. On both sides of the ball. You're telling me we can't use that guy for 30+ minutes per game and we can't get him 40 touches and 12 shots, like before the trade? Are you kidding me? Shows a huge lack of imagination on the part of the coaching staff more so than anything else.

I think Lauri is done here as a guy who can move the needle. Maybe one in three games where he scores like 16 points on 7 shots in 18 minutes and the other coach does a Nick Nurse where he wonders aloud WTF are the Bulls doing with him. My prediction seems to be holding pretty well--intersperse some single digit games with some 16-18 point games for an average of 10ish. I don't see that changing going forward. Shame, really for everybody involved.

Lauri for not having it in him to go get his and Donovan and aides for being unable to find a way to use the third most talented player on the team for more than 20 min / game.

I have been so disappointed and therefore critical of Lauri. He has underperformed.

But I agree with everything in your post as well. It is ridiculous how he has been handled, and he still should be getting more minutes than the 2 players you mention.

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Yeah, it's just weird. Pre-deadline, things didn't seem to weird, but there's been a real turn.

Since it's just good fun, I want to speculate that there may have been a trade of interest to the Bulls that was on the table, but fell apart because Lauri signaled that he wouldn't sign with that team. So while we see the weirdness from BD and the FO, maybe it's really Lauri's fault.cc

[WindyCityBorn]

Agreed it was a bad clip to post. I don't think anything was intentional by it at all looked pretty much like he was waiting to talk to Vuc and didn't notice Lauri... unintentional likely but to post that as a clip is just bad because it surely can be taken as an intentional snub. Especially fora player that was highly shopped and is sitting in the doghouse.

With the caveat that Lauri is an asset that the Bulls should do everything in their power to increase the value of: honestly, **** Lauri. Dude made it clear his first offseason when he leaked the "going back to Finland to relax in the sauna with his post-partum wife and enjoy the new born" puff pieces that he wasn't committed to being a great player.

Does that make him a bad person? Nah, do right by your child, but it certainly doesn't endear himself to fans like myself that root for the jersey, not feel good stories about spending time with your kid in the offseason. Or you know what, do that, but don't come back looking like you trained with Michael B Jordan for the new Rockie 16 film and didn't actually you know, train like a pro hoops player.

I think MJ the Garpax regime drafted a player that doesn't really GAF about winning or losing or bettering himself and like anybody that takes on a burden from someone else they are just completely over it and beyond even pretending to care. Is what it is at this point, the divorce papers are signed and just waiting to be delivered this offseason.

Lauri having a child so young ruined his pro potential.

[suursahuri]

I think Lauri has spent his summers at the Bulls training facility as much as other players, maybe more than most. I have never heard any complains from Bulls, only praise. Anyway, the results have been underwhelming. I hope he hires his own coaching crew for a change now as a free agent.

[TallDude]

Lauri just have to take few steps back and forget all what Boylen told him. I don`t blame Donovan. Lauri was fine this season but something did go wrong and it is something personally. I cant see any other reason for this. Lauri was better than last year almost every areas. Even his weak points. Still with low usage. Come back for Finland while and train a bit with under coach Dettman and perhaps Mottola. They reset Lauri.Then same time his agent has to do his job. As the deal is done fly back in states and start new era even if it Bulls wich i don`t belive. His agent has to be somekind of heart.

[CaPiTanAK]

Lauri has proven to be a good bench player with his beta mentality. If he wants to get out of Chicago, he better be sure of getting a 20+ mil contract from some team. At 10 mil, he can rest assure that his contract will be matched by AK.

[Pentele]

I think it is clear that the Bulls have not handled Lauri's situation optimally (and I do not refer to that video clip which I view inconsequential). As I have understood it, it is not the first time this organization has problems with dealing with players. But it cannot be said that our little RealGM community has fared much better. If someone would have told us in the beginning of the season, that Lauri is going to have a career year in terms of shooting efficiency and that he is going to improve his defense significantly as the season goes on, I doubt that there would have been many that would have been disappointed. Yes, there was that one injury but I believe it was 13 games which is frankly not that much (nobody should hold the time missed due to the Covid-protocol against a player).

What this tells me is that either (1) the goalposts have been moved; or (2) everything that has been going on team-wise is somehow skewing expectations concerning Lauri. In fact, I think the reason is that everyone is so keenly expecting the Bulls to finally have some success that the bar for Lauri to meet for people to be happy with him is that he should single-handedly solve what is ailing the Bulls currently. He should be a game-changing defensive player (you have to be that with Zach, Vuc, and possibly Coby on the floor with you) while he should be able to create his own chances offensively (that is actually often referred as his biggest offensive weakness around here). Because Lauri failed on these counts, people have soured on him.

If this sounds as a some kind of parody to you, because certainly one is now expecting too much of one player, then you are on to something. I think we have moved to the parody realm expectations-wise (and perhaps also social media-wise, but I leave that discussion to the people who are probably younger than me...) as a collective. What in the beginning of the season would have surely counted as a success for Lauri, is now met with some derision. I think that at least partially explains quite well why there are so many posts about Lauri: people want to have their "disappointment" validated by those who see positives in Lauri's game. But not everyone is looking for a miracle-maker. Lauri's time as a bull is definitely over, or at least I hope that to be the case. It is time to look for the saviour elsewhere, but that should not keep us from having a reasonable discussion on Lauri as a player that he is: pretty good and talented, but still a work in the progress.

[coldfish]

Right now in the NBA, Lauri is 59th in the NBA in 3p percentage. That's among qualified players and doesn't include players who have taken 2 shots.

The league has changed. While shooting is certainly valuable, finding one dimensional shooters is easy. Lauri wants to be played and paid like a high end player when he isn't and I think that is the fundamental problem between him and the Bulls.

I don't really think the team has misused him or anything. Several coaches have tried different things and he always drifts back to being who he really is: An off ball shooter. If there is a fault for his development, it seems that it comes from the people around him who drastically overestimate the value of an off ball shooter and didn't try to turn him into a more well rounded player.

I haven't seen any consistent improvement from him this year. At times he would be aggressive in driving, then it would go away. A few times in the post, and then it would go away. A few times helping on defense, and then it would go away. His on ball defense may have been the worst I have seen it this year as I have seen him get burned a lot.

At one point, I think this was just about money. If Lauri had agreed to less than $15m per year, everyone would be happy. Now the problems clearly are beyond that.

Hopefully the team gets something of value in a sign and trade. Outside of that, good luck to Lauri but I really don't see him on the team anymore.

[Stratmaster]

Right now in the NBA, Lauri is 59th in the NBA in 3p percentage. That's among qualified players and doesn't include players who have taken 2 shots.

The league has changed. While shooting is certainly valuable, finding one dimensional shooters is easy. Lauri wants to be played and paid like a high end player when he isn't and I think that is the fundamental problem between him and the Bulls.

I don't really think the team has misused him or anything. Several coaches have tried different things and he always drifts back to being who he really is: An off ball shooter. If there is a fault for his development, it seems that it comes from the people around him who drastically overestimate the value of an off ball shooter and didn't try to turn him into a more well rounded player.

I haven't seen any consistent improvement from him this year. At times he would be aggressive in driving, then it would go away. A few times in the post, and then it would go away. A few times helping on defense, and then it would go away. His on ball defense may have been the worst I have seen it this year as I have seen him get burned a lot.

At one point, I think this was just about money. If Lauri had agreed to less than $15m per year, everyone would be happy. Now the problems clearly are beyond that.

Hopefully the team gets something of value in a sign and trade. Outside of that, good luck to Lauri but I really don't see him on the team anymore.

I don't think they have misused him stylistically. My comment was from a playing time and playing situation standpoint.

But adter reading your comment i looked back at game logs and my memory was bad. He was playing plenty of minutes before the trade deadline. While he certainly is better than Val and (right now) PWill, those are not his positions. For Lauri to get the minutes he likely deserves he would have to take them from one of Vuc, Theis or Thad. They have all played better than Lauri.

With Vuc and Theis coming over Lauri is the odd man out. Hopefully he gets to a team where he can be of value for 25 plus mpg.

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[sco]

Right now in the NBA, Lauri is 59th in the NBA in 3p percentage. That's among qualified players and doesn't include players who have taken 2 shots.

The league has changed. While shooting is certainly valuable, finding one dimensional shooters is easy. Lauri wants to be played and paid like a high end player when he isn't and I think that is the fundamental problem between him and the Bulls.

I don't really think the team has misused him or anything. Several coaches have tried different things and he always drifts back to being who he really is: An off ball shooter. If there is a fault for his development, it seems that it comes from the people around him who drastically overestimate the value of an off ball shooter and didn't try to turn him into a more well rounded player.

I haven't seen any consistent improvement from him this year. At times he would be aggressive in driving, then it would go away. A few times in the post, and then it would go away. A few times helping on defense, and then it would go away. His on ball defense may have been the worst I have seen it this year as I have seen him get burned a lot.

At one point, I think this was just about money. If Lauri had agreed to less than $15m per year, everyone would be happy. Now the problems clearly are beyond that.

Hopefully the team gets something of value in a sign and trade. Outside of that, good luck to Lauri but I really don't see him on the team anymore.

I don't think they have misused him stylistically. My comment was from a playing time and playing situation standpoint.

But adter reading your comment i looked back at game logs and my memory was bad. He was playing plenty of minutes before the trade deadline. While he certainly is better than Val and (right now) PWill, those are not his positions. For Lauri to get the minutes he likely deserves he would have to take them from one of Vuc, Theis or Thad. They have all played better than Lauri.

With Vuc and Theis coming over Lauri is the odd man out. Hopefully he gets to a team where he can be of value for 25 plus mpg.

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Yeah, Lauri was given adequate chances to shine this season in the role of secondary scorer and was inconsistent (some good some bad) and inconsistently available during the part of the season that mattered in terms of his value to the team and his trade value. IMO, Lauri's game is predicated on being a second option scorer, which to me means he needs to be a consistent 20pt scorer (especially a guy who will make other teams when he gets open 3's). He wasn't, but that's what the team needed. He doesn't do enough other things well enough to be a 3rd option guy.

Despite that, I am really frustrated that we didn't get anything for him at the deadline. I seriously doubt we get anything useful by way of S&T and am tempted to want the FO to match offers in the $10-$14M range, which I think are likely - mainly because we are unlikely to better utilize our cap situation.

[coldfish]

Right now in the NBA, Lauri is 59th in the NBA in 3p percentage. That's among qualified players and doesn't include players who have taken 2 shots.

The league has changed. While shooting is certainly valuable, finding one dimensional shooters is easy. Lauri wants to be played and paid like a high end player when he isn't and I think that is the fundamental problem between him and the Bulls.

I don't really think the team has misused him or anything. Several coaches have tried different things and he always drifts back to being who he really is: An off ball shooter. If there is a fault for his development, it seems that it comes from the people around him who drastically overestimate the value of an off ball shooter and didn't try to turn him into a more well rounded player.

I haven't seen any consistent improvement from him this year. At times he would be aggressive in driving, then it would go away. A few times in the post, and then it would go away. A few times helping on defense, and then it would go away. His on ball defense may have been the worst I have seen it this year as I have seen him get burned a lot.

At one point, I think this was just about money. If Lauri had agreed to less than $15m per year, everyone would be happy. Now the problems clearly are beyond that.

Hopefully the team gets something of value in a sign and trade. Outside of that, good luck to Lauri but I really don't see him on the team anymore.

I don't think they have misused him stylistically. My comment was from a playing time and playing situation standpoint.

But adter reading your comment i looked back at game logs and my memory was bad. He was playing plenty of minutes before the trade deadline. While he certainly is better than Val and (right now) PWill, those are not his positions. For Lauri to get the minutes he likely deserves he would have to take them from one of Vuc, Theis or Thad. They have all played better than Lauri.

With Vuc and Theis coming over Lauri is the odd man out. Hopefully he gets to a team where he can be of value for 25 plus mpg.

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While I agree with you, my post wasn't aimed at your comment.

Fundamentally, there are a lot of people on this board that think that Lauri is a much more talented player who is just waiting to be unlocked if the players and coaches around him do X, Y and Z. I disagree. Oh, he is capable of getting hot and there are times when he is open and doesn't get the ball but that's true of each and every off ball shooter in the NBA. What we are seeing is typical for off ball shooters.

The difference here is that people don't stare at Bobby Portis all game long (2nd in the NBA in 3p percentage) demanding that the team get him the ball.

[DuckIII]

I agree completely with coldfish’s take. And add that not only do I reject the notion the team somehow is responsible for Lauri’s mediocrity, in my view they went way out of their way to make his development a priority and his shortcomings are 100% his own.

That doesn’t mean he’s bad. He’s not bad. He’s decent and I think he will have a decent career. But this notion that this is an organizational failure, to me, is clearly driven by an emotional investment in the player rather than an objective analysis of his career.

All of the foregoing relating to his career prior to this season. If you want to complain about the team’s handling of him this season I can get with that. But its a consequence not a cause.

[Michael Jackson]

Right now in the NBA, Lauri is 59th in the NBA in 3p percentage. That's among qualified players and doesn't include players who have taken 2 shots.

The league has changed. While shooting is certainly valuable, finding one dimensional shooters is easy. Lauri wants to be played and paid like a high end player when he isn't and I think that is the fundamental problem between him and the Bulls.

I don't really think the team has misused him or anything. Several coaches have tried different things and he always drifts back to being who he really is: An off ball shooter. If there is a fault for his development, it seems that it comes from the people around him who drastically overestimate the value of an off ball shooter and didn't try to turn him into a more well rounded player.

I haven't seen any consistent improvement from him this year. At times he would be aggressive in driving, then it would go away. A few times in the post, and then it would go away. A few times helping on defense, and then it would go away. His on ball defense may have been the worst I have seen it this year as I have seen him get burned a lot.

At one point, I think this was just about money. If Lauri had agreed to less than $15m per year, everyone would be happy. Now the problems clearly are beyond that.

Hopefully the team gets something of value in a sign and trade. Outside of that, good luck to Lauri but I really don't see him on the team anymore.

I don't think they have misused him stylistically. My comment was from a playing time and playing situation standpoint.

But adter reading your comment i looked back at game logs and my memory was bad. He was playing plenty of minutes before the trade deadline. While he certainly is better than Val and (right now) PWill, those are not his positions. For Lauri to get the minutes he likely deserves he would have to take them from one of Vuc, Theis or Thad. They have all played better than Lauri.

With Vuc and Theis coming over Lauri is the odd man out. Hopefully he gets to a team where he can be of value for 25 plus mpg.

Sent from my SM-G965U using RealGM mobile app

While I agree with you, my post wasn't aimed at your comment.

Fundamentally, there are a lot of people on this board that think that Lauri is a much more talented player who is just waiting to be unlocked if the players and coaches around him do X, Y and Z. I disagree. Oh, he is capable of getting hot and there are times when he is open and doesn't get the ball but that's true of each and every off ball shooter in the NBA. What we are seeing is typical for off ball shooters.

The difference here is that people don't stare at Bobby Portis all game long (2nd in the NBA in 3p percentage) demanding that the team get him the ball.

Bobby Portis stares at us, the fans all game long and makes us scared and we want to give him the ball just so he stops looking through the camera at us.

[Pentele]

I agree completely with coldfish’s take. And add that not only do I reject the notion the team somehow is responsible for Lauri’s mediocrity, in my view they went way out of their way to make his development a priority and his shortcomings are 100% his own.

That doesn’t mean he’s bad. He’s not bad. He’s decent and I think he will have a decent career. But this notion that this is an organizational failure, to me, is clearly driven by an emotional investment in the player rather than an objective analysis of his career.

All of the foregoing relating to his career prior to this season. If you want to complain about the team’s handling of him this season I can get with that. But its a consequence not a cause.

"If you want to complain about the team’s handling of him this season I can get with that." If you refer to me (as I surmise since you speak of "handling"), then yes, I was "complaining" about the team's handling of him this season. And I was not saying that "he is an organizational failure", but it no longer matter what I or some other posters say here: people have already decided what some other posters here think, and they draw their conclusions and carry the discussion on that basis. That does not sound very "objective" to me, but, please, go ahead you all.

I also see that some have decided that Lauri cannot get playing time because he is playing worse than Vuc, Theis, and Thad. Apart from Vuc, that is actually debatable performance-wise even if one may agree that the fit with Vuc is not perfect. For instance, Thad is not playing well at all right now. But of course it does not matter because people have made their mind about what is the supposedly objective analysis of the current situation, not some reminiscence from the time when he was not gassed all the time. And of course there is no emotional investment involved because things just happen to be the way they are right now in terms of roster construction. It is so damn easy to forget that many have decided that matter even much before Vuc and Theis joined the team; people were demanding that Lauri should be benched because he kills the team's mojo or something along those lines. What has changed is that now one can conveniently point to the clutter at 4 and 5.The sentiment has stayed the same, the reasons have stayed. And sure, one needs to think something else. Before, the argument was that the team is losing while Lauri is on the floor, but after the all stars break he is the only player apart from Brown who has positive +/- which means that the team is not losing when he is on the floor. But yes, it is a carbage stat anyway, I hear... and if the Bulls are serious about winning they should not play Lauri at all. He must be killing the team's mojo, again, because his GarPax stink carries from the bench were he is sitting the most of the game. *Slow clap* [I should probably add that, here, I was paraphrasing comments from fine posters on this board]

But as you can probably guess from this post, it is a bit frustrating, though, to try to have some discussion going on about the team and one of its players (and not, say, about what the Bulls social media team post or not) when one gets regularly misinterpreted the way I just described in the first passage. And I am not speaking solely of this instance, or me specifically. There are lots of people, here, who are inclined towards dictating what the objectively correct beliefs about the team or its players are, even it means ridiculing other people (not you Duck, even if I do not appreciate the reference to "objective analysis" or "emotional investment" as they do not mean anything real in this context... pure rhetorics, that is all). And then there are people who want to argue against straw men all day long. Is there anyone who is willing to talk about how the players are actually playing at the moment? I can start: Lauri has recently defended well both on-ball and in terms of help defense. Is anyone disagreeing let alone being able to show that I am wrong?

[coldfish]

Portis is actually an interesting example to look at. He thought he was better than he was as a younger player and it created a lot of animosity obviously.

He has settled in to being who he is and its actually a valuable role. He is second in the NBA in 3p percentage. He isn't a bad rebounder. His passing is poor but its not Markkanen level bad. He has a post game to use against smaller players.

Overall, he has a 19+ PER. He currently makes only $3.6m, has a player option for next year and is 26.

There are going to be GM's out there that think that Lauri still has potential and are going to offer big money. That said, I would happily take Portis at $10m a year over Lauri at $20m per year. Going forward, they would perform the same role and IMO, Portis would do it better.

I highly doubt that he is an option but it really speaks to the plethora of tall guys that can hit a 3p shot in the NBA right now.

[E-DC]

I agree completely with coldfish’s take. And add that not only do I reject the notion the team somehow is responsible for Lauri’s mediocrity, in my view they went way out of their way to make his development a priority and his shortcomings are 100% his own.

That doesn’t mean he’s bad. He’s not bad. He’s decent and I think he will have a decent career. But this notion that this is an organizational failure, to me, is clearly driven by an emotional investment in the player rather than an objective analysis of his career.

All of the foregoing relating to his career prior to this season. If you want to complain about the team’s handling of him this season I can get with that. But its a consequence not a cause.

This is a perfect example of Psychological Projection.

As someone who provides data to back up all of my assertions, I can find this discussion with the Lauri haters to be a bit frustrating. However, as someone who got a degree in sociology, I actually find this discussion quite illuminating.

[Ice Man]

Portis is actually an interesting example to look at. He thought he was better than he was as a younger player and it created a lot of animosity obviously.

He has settled in to being who he is and its actually a valuable role. He is second in the NBA in 3p percentage. He isn't a bad rebounder. His passing is poor but its not Markkanen level bad. He has a post game to use against smaller players.

Overall, he has a 19+ PER. He currently makes only $3.6m, has a player option for next year and is 26.

My guess is that Lauri will follow Portis's career path, which is a common NBA career path for lottery picks -

1) Rookie contract, overrated
2) Second contract, overpaid
3) Third contract, good value

The pendulum tends to swing too far for young players. First rookie love and high hopes, then general disillusion but somebody is gamble with a second contract by paying $$$, then additional disillusion. At that point the player's game is better than it ever was, but his market price has dropped substantially.