Darius Garland vs. Collin Sexton

[Duke4life831]

Id definitely wouldn't go forward with both. Youre looking at a poor mans version of POR and that aint a good thing. Id move on with Garland and look to move Sexton. Sexton is a 6'1 SG that I still think will end up as a 6MOY kind of player than a starting 2 guard for a contending team. Garland at least has the ability to run the PnR and should become an efficient scorer as well.

With that said, this draft can definitely change a lot for how I feel with this team going forward. If they get Mobley, then ya run with Garland and move Sexton for a better fitting 2 guard.

But if they land Cade or Suggs, Id ideally move both. I dont like either one with Cade or Suggs. Id much rather pair either of those two guys with a good 2 way off ball 2 guard. Try and grab Grayson or Dante from the Grizz or Bucks this summer. Those guys arent the same individual talents that Garland is, but fit wise and future cap wise, Id rather pair those guys up with Cade/Suggs than either Garland or Sexton. Because those guys bring defense, legit size and legit off ball movement.

I tend to agree. If teams have other options, no one should really be starting and relying heavily on offense-only undersized guards, let alone two of them. They can be fine as role players but it’s really not a recipe for success.

Dont get me wrong, I like Garland. And if Cleveland ends up with Mobley, Kuminga, Green, or Barnes, then ya I feel fine moving forward with Garland. The thing I like about Garland is, I like his catch and shoot ability and I like his ability to run the PnR and be somewhat of a facilitator as well as a scorer. But ya as of right now I think if you're building your team around either one of these guys to be a high usage guy, you're screwed. But if you can pair Garland with a really good big or a high usage wing, that can be a solid pairing. But ya if Im getting an elite guard like a Suggs or Cade, Id much rather just pair them with a guard that are off ball 2 way 2 guards.

[cgf]

Id definitely wouldn't go forward with both. Youre looking at a poor mans version of POR and that aint a good thing. Id move on with Garland and look to move Sexton. Sexton is a 6'1 SG that I still think will end up as a 6MOY kind of player than a starting 2 guard for a contending team. Garland at least has the ability to run the PnR and should become an efficient scorer as well.

With that said, this draft can definitely change a lot for how I feel with this team going forward. If they get Mobley, then ya run with Garland and move Sexton for a better fitting 2 guard.

But if they land Cade or Suggs, Id ideally move both. I dont like either one with Cade or Suggs. Id much rather pair either of those two guys with a good 2 way off ball 2 guard. Try and grab Grayson or Dante from the Grizz or Bucks this summer. Those guys arent the same individual talents that Garland is, but fit wise and future cap wise, Id rather pair those guys up with Cade/Suggs than either Garland or Sexton. Because those guys bring defense, legit size and legit off ball movement.

I like Garland, but Sexton could be a really nice fit riding shotgun to one of the league's big playmakers.

Just as a hypothetical example, if Philly bombed again in the playoffs and the cavs had a top 5 pick to pair with one of their young guards(++), I think there could be something interesting to a trade that set the Cavs up to run with Embiid/Garland + Okoro/etc. and the 6ers with Simmons/Sexton + top 5/Harris/Allen/etc...or vice versa. Embiid would do better with a "PG" who was dangerous from outside and who could form a lethal PnR duo with him, while Simmons could level up running his own team with a nice fitting second banana in the back court like Sexton.

[Michael Lucky]

No reason to trade either. They are both doing fine despite how young they are.

[jbk1234]

Id definitely wouldn't go forward with both. Youre looking at a poor mans version of POR and that aint a good thing. Id move on with Garland and look to move Sexton. Sexton is a 6'1 SG that I still think will end up as a 6MOY kind of player than a starting 2 guard for a contending team. Garland at least has the ability to run the PnR and should become an efficient scorer as well.

With that said, this draft can definitely change a lot for how I feel with this team going forward. If they get Mobley, then ya run with Garland and move Sexton for a better fitting 2 guard.

But if they land Cade or Suggs, Id ideally move both. I dont like either one with Cade or Suggs. Id much rather pair either of those two guys with a good 2 way off ball 2 guard. Try and grab Grayson or Dante from the Grizz or Bucks this summer. Those guys arent the same individual talents that Garland is, but fit wise and future cap wise, Id rather pair those guys up with Cade/Suggs than either Garland or Sexton. Because those guys bring defense, legit size and legit off ball movement.

I tend to agree. If teams have other options, no one should really be starting and relying heavily on offense-only undersized guards, let alone two of them. They can be fine as role players but it’s really not a recipe for success.

Dont get me wrong, I like Garland. And if Cleveland ends up with Mobley, Kuminga, Green, or Barnes, then ya I feel fine moving forward with Garland. The thing I like about Garland is, I like his catch and shoot ability and I like his ability to run the PnR and be somewhat of a facilitator as well as a scorer. But ya as of right now I think if you're building your team around either one of these guys to be a high usage guy, you're screwed. But if you can pair Garland with a really good big or a high usage wing, that can be a solid pairing. But ya if Im getting an elite guard like a Suggs or Cade, Id much rather just pair them with a guard that are off ball 2 way 2 guards.

Cade doesn't have a first step. He couldn't beat his man off the dribble in college. He's going to be a secondary playmaker, at best, in the NBA out of the forward position. No one should be drafting him and thinking they don't need a PG.

Suggs played alongside some of the best three point shooters AND a skilled big man in college. Garland is playing on one of the worst teams in the NBA in terms of made threes. I absolutely would not swap the two.

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[FreeSpiritNY]

Yeah I'd love to have Sexton. I'm biased cause I wanted to draft him the yr we got Knox. But in terms of his fit (and I can't fully tell if it's more because of Peytons inability but..) Randle is sortve our biggest facilitator. We could benefit from that not being the case but Sexton sortve mutually benefits from that being the case. You guys know what he can do for better or worse so I won't drag out the explanation but I'm just saying I think he'd give the Knicks an element Peyton could never give and the system would suit him..

The only element he gives the Knicks is losing, turnovers, poor shooting & tunnel vision

He's a bit selfish but poor shooting? that's definitely not true.

I'd be happy to trade for him if he's on the market, think of the big jump for our offense with him instead of Payton.

I was talking about payton. Payton only brings a losing element. Sexton is is a warrior. Just needs to learn how to make his team better.

[pipfan]

I think, if they get lucky and move up for Cunningham, they should make Sexton the super 6th man

Garland
Okoro
Cunningham
?
Allen
Sexton get full minutes, off the bench. They get a 4 man, and Okoro improves his shooting and that could be a great lineup

[Mr Loggins]

Yeah I'd love to have Sexton. I'm biased cause I wanted to draft him the yr we got Knox. But in terms of his fit (and I can't fully tell if it's more because of Peytons inability but..) Randle is sortve our biggest facilitator. We could benefit from that not being the case but Sexton sortve mutually benefits from that being the case. You guys know what he can do for better or worse so I won't drag out the explanation but I'm just saying I think he'd give the Knicks an element Peyton could never give and the system would suit him..

The only element he gives the Knicks is losing, turnovers, poor shooting & tunnel vision

Do you guys have a young promising 2-way SF or perhaps a body stretching machine to transform Sexton into a 6'8" SF?

What about those shoes they had in the 70’s with the fish in them? They must add 4-6 inches to his height.

[MemphisX]

Id definitely wouldn't go forward with both. Youre looking at a poor mans version of POR and that aint a good thing. Id move on with Garland and look to move Sexton. Sexton is a 6'1 SG that I still think will end up as a 6MOY kind of player than a starting 2 guard for a contending team. Garland at least has the ability to run the PnR and should become an efficient scorer as well.

With that said, this draft can definitely change a lot for how I feel with this team going forward. If they get Mobley, then ya run with Garland and move Sexton for a better fitting 2 guard.

But if they land Cade or Suggs, Id ideally move both. I dont like either one with Cade or Suggs. Id much rather pair either of those two guys with a good 2 way off ball 2 guard. Try and grab Grayson or Dante from the Grizz or Bucks this summer. Those guys arent the same individual talents that Garland is, but fit wise and future cap wise, Id rather pair those guys up with Cade/Suggs than either Garland or Sexton. Because those guys bring defense, legit size and legit off ball movement.

I like Garland, but Sexton could be a really nice fit riding shotgun to one of the league's big playmakers.

Just as a hypothetical example, if Philly bombed again in the playoffs and the cavs had a top 5 pick to pair with one of their young guards(++), I think there could be something interesting to a trade that set the Cavs up to run with Embiid/Garland + Okoro/etc. and the 6ers with Simmons/Sexton + top 5/Harris/Allen/etc...or vice versa. Embiid would do better with a "PG" who was dangerous from outside and who could form a lethal PnR duo with him, while Simmons could level up running his own team with a nice fitting second banana in the back court like Sexton.

I was just thinking he would be so good next to Luka.

[Monky15]

Philly, Bucks, Mavs, Pistons, Lakers, NOP, OKC, Spurs are places I feel Sexton could thrive.

[LivingLegend]

Philly, Bucks, Mavs, Pistons, Lakers, NOP, OKC, Spurs are places I feel Sexton could thrive.

Do any of those teams have a young controllable SF that fits the Cavs rebuilding timeline?

I'm really wondering if there is a sliver of a chance at being able to put a package together with Sexton + whatever else for either one of the Bridges'. Specifically Mikal.

Garland, Okoro, Bridges, Love, Allen makes me happy. And it also looks like a balanced starting lineup with everyone playing their natural position finally.

[NatiboyB]

I’m of the idea we just keep them together. Possibly visit trade possibilities before Sexton is a restricted free agent and match any rfa offer he gets.

He and Garland can play together until it simply shows one is better than the other. To me the ultimate role for Sexton long term is outstanding 6th man. This upcoming draft may also determine a lot going forward.

[Monky15]

Philly, Bucks, Mavs, Pistons, Lakers, NOP, OKC, Spurs are places I feel Sexton could thrive.

Do any of those teams have a young controllable SF that fits the Cavs rebuilding timeline?

I'm really wondering if there is a sliver of a chance at being able to put a package together with Sexton + whatever else for either one of the Bridges'. Specifically Mikal.

Garland, Okoro, Bridges, Love, Allen makes me happy. And it also looks like a balanced starting lineup with everyone playing their natural position finally.

That's the rub. Due to the fact that skilled 6'8 is harder to find than skilled 6'1 the Cavs would have to take a hit to talent with the returning player. Mikal is a far off dream, Phoenix would be crazy to trade him and Miles fits the Hornets better than Sexton.

Don't know if it is even close but Detroit should offer Hayes (and Jackson if the Cavs want, he offers length on the perimeter next to Okoro's strength) for Sexton, Prince. In theory Hayes can fit next to Garland and still has plenty of potential, Cavs save money next season. Pistons draft their star this year and have Sexton and Grant as the 2a, 2b.

[Pelly24]

Agreed. I like Sexton but a volume scoring guard isn't terribly difficult to replace comparably speaking.

Garland drips potential and is just now learning where and when to assert himself. I've said it 1 million times but there are so many times where he looks like Kyrie-lite from his ball handling, flashiness and finishing moves. Being a 40%+ three point shooter helps too.

Right now he is taking a backseat to Sexton in terms of the 'go-to scorer' and is playing the role of facilitator.

If Sexton were to be moved for a young wing player and this becomes Garlands show to run, I see a few All Star appearances in the next 3-5 years for him.

before the 19 draft...peep game:

imma go on a limb and say Garland is the best ball handler to come out since Kyrie.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1766483&start=40

Right, I try to find a comp for Garland of what he could be in another 2 years once he gets more experience, his grows into his body, ect.

The best I could come up with is a weird combination of Charlotte Kemba Walker and young Cavs Kyrie Irving.

He has the body and playmaking of Kemba, but the flair and movements of Kyrie. It's weird.

His standing reach is about 6 inches higher than Kemba Walker's. Kemba's standing reach is like 7'7," which is the standing reach of a 5'10" or 5'11" person. Garland's is 8'2," which basically makes him 6'3" effectively. Steph (8'1") Kyrie (8'3") Anthony Edwards (8'4") type of range is very solid and could eventually make finishing much easier than it is for Kemba, who despite being so quick, struggles to create space at times.

[LivingLegend]

Philly, Bucks, Mavs, Pistons, Lakers, NOP, OKC, Spurs are places I feel Sexton could thrive.

Do any of those teams have a young controllable SF that fits the Cavs rebuilding timeline?

I'm really wondering if there is a sliver of a chance at being able to put a package together with Sexton + whatever else for either one of the Bridges'. Specifically Mikal.

Garland, Okoro, Bridges, Love, Allen makes me happy. And it also looks like a balanced starting lineup with everyone playing their natural position finally.

That's the rub. Due to the fact that skilled 6'8 is harder to find than skilled 6'1 the Cavs would have to take a hit to talent with the returning player. Mikal is a far off dream, Phoenix would be crazy to trade him and Miles fits the Hornets better than Sexton.

Don't know if it is even close but Detroit should offer Hayes (and Jackson if the Cavs want, he offers length on the perimeter next to Okoro's strength) for Sexton, Prince. In theory Hayes can fit next to Garland and still has plenty of potential, Cavs save money next season. Pistons draft their star this year and have Sexton and Grant as the 2a, 2b.

I would think it would take a lot more than Hayes to get Sexton. Sexton being far more established and Hayes still being a complete wildcard who has been pretty bad his rookie year.

A trade that would have made sense would have been Sexton for a guy like Aaron Gordon who are probably a lot more even in talent but that ship has sailed.

Either way, I would just like some size on the perimeter for a change. The Cavs are good with their guards and good with their bigs, the problem is they have.nobody on the wings to bridge that gap in the middle between the two.

[Upperclass]

Depends if they have a shot at Cade or Suggs.

I think Suggs is the most overrated guy in this draft.

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Suggs is about 2x as good as either of these players imo. Neither projects to be a starter on a good team. defensive issues, length issues, lack of vision issues, and the need to pound the rock to be able to score

[Roger Murdock]

The answer is obviously keep Garland no matter what. Hes going to be a multi-time allstar and I won't be surprised if he makes an all NBA team. Hes a dynamic scorer and has improved considerably from a poor rookie year. Hes growing so fast throughout the season. Once he improves at finishing inside hes going to be lethal.

Sexton is a very good but very limited player. Hes a dynamic and efficient 3 level scorer. He can get whereever he wants and get good looks. His scoring repertoire when attacking the hoop is awesome, he can do floaters, uses the glass like a pro, and creates so much seperation. Hes a deadly mid range shooter too. His weaknesses are very obvious though - he's a 6'1'' shooting guard and cant guard wings. I think he could be a decent defender of points but he can't play point guard because hes not a natural playmaker/passer. I dont think hes a selfish player or anything like that, he just doesn't have the vision or feel to be a lead point. Sexton if he was playing next to a tall point that can handle the playmaking and guard taller guys would be perfect. CHA and DAL seem like good fits. Otherwise hes probably best off the bench getting 34 minutes. He'd have a ton of agency off the bench and it that would help mask his weaknesses.

They are both good players. Garland is the guy you keep cause his upside is far greater and his weaknesses dont create team fit issues like Sextons do. But Sexton is still worth keeping unless you get a great offer. Hes a leader, the hardest worker on the team, and has improved a lot in 3 years. He's just always going to be limited by what he cant do.

[yoyoboy]

Sexton can be a fantastic super sixth man, but I’m not sure he’s willing to accept that role.

Garland just has more upside as a modern NBA point guard, and he’s really been showing that potential more lately. 19.5 ppg on 58% TS and 6.2 apg after the ASB this year. The shot and the passing have looked great. Once he starts to develop his body more physically so he can get to the line/finish inside better, he’s really going to take that next step.

Watch on YouTube

[DrCoach]

Garland does not seem durable

[yoyoboy]

Depends if they have a shot at Cade or Suggs.

I think Suggs is the most overrated guy in this draft.

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Suggs is about 2x as good as either of these players imo. Neither projects to be a starter on a good team. defensive issues, length issues, lack of vision issues, and the need to pound the rock to be able to score

Lack of vision? You haven’t watched Garland play then. Also they don’t need to pound the rock to be able to score. Garland shoots over 40% from three while Sexton is shooting 37.6% (career 38.7%) and is a fairly active cutter.

Saying neither will ever be a starter on a good team when Eldrid Payton starts on a 34-27 Knicks team is laughable.

[yoyoboy]

The answer is obviously keep Garland no matter what. Hes going to be a multi-time allstar and I won't be surprised if he makes an all NBA team. Hes a dynamic scorer and has improved considerably from a poor rookie year. Hes growing so fast throughout the season. Once he improves at finishing inside hes going to be lethal.

Sexton is a very good but very limited player. Hes a dynamic and efficient 3 level scorer. He can get whereever he wants and get good looks. His scoring repertoire when attacking the hoop is awesome, he can do floaters, uses the glass like a pro, and creates so much seperation. Hes a deadly mid range shooter too. His weaknesses are very obvious though - he's a 6'1'' shooting guard and cant guard wings. I think he could be a decent defender of points but he can't play point guard because hes not a natural playmaker/passer. I dont think hes a selfish player or anything like that, he just doesn't have the vision or feel to be a lead point. Sexton if he was playing next to a tall point that can handle the playmaking and guard taller guys would be perfect. CHA and DAL seem like good fits. Otherwise hes probably best off the bench getting 34 minutes. He'd have a ton of agency off the bench and it that would help mask his weaknesses.

They are both good players. Garland is the guy you keep cause his upside is far greater and his weaknesses dont create team fit issues like Sextons do. But Sexton is still worth keeping unless you get a great offer. Hes a leader, the hardest worker on the team, and has improved a lot in 3 years. He's just always going to be limited by what he cant do.

This sums it up very well. I agree with the assessment of Sexton not being selfish. He really isn’t. The dude is competitive and wants to win. He just doesn’t have natural PG vision and needs to be next to a big playmaker so he can guard PGs and not run the offense himself. His scoring is already fantastic, multi-faceted, and improves every year.