[Project] Top 5 single season peaks by franchises

[Doctor MJ]

I'm game. My participation may be spotty, but worthy idea.

[trex_8063]

I’d like to participate, though not sure I’ll be able to do so consistently if that’s ok.

[Odinn21]

With me, there's 9 people interested in this thing. I know some of us already mentioned not being able to participate consistently but all of us fairly active in here, so I'd assume even with some inconsistencies, we're good to go ahead with this.

I'll start the project tomorrow around this hour. It'll be standard 2 day time to vote. I'm thinking about the order #3 in this post;
viewtopic.php?p=90414218#p90414218
And start with the 76ers. I'm open to suggestions though.

Cheers all.

[70sFan]

I'd try to participate, but I don't have much time recently.

[sansterre]

While we're at it, are we allowing ABA antecedents?

For example, Dr. J is obviously to be counted as a Sixer.

But are we also counting him as a Net?

[Odinn21]

While we're at it, are we allowing ABA antecedents?

For example, Dr. J is obviously to be counted as a Sixer.

But are we also counting him as a Net?

Yeah, of course.

[trex_8063]

While we're at it, are we allowing ABA antecedents?

For example, Dr. J is obviously to be counted as a Sixer.

But are we also counting him as a Net?

Yeah, of course.

Just for clarity: one can't place Dr. J in the Sixer list based on his '76 campaign [because it didn't happen in Philly], correct?

Also, are we following the actual franchise lineages [my preference], and not just following the city? e.g. Arizin as part of the Philadelphia Warriors could not be considered as one of the five peaks for the Philadelphia 76'ers.

[Owly]

While we're at it, are we allowing ABA antecedents?

For example, Dr. J is obviously to be counted as a Sixer.

But are we also counting him as a Net?

Yeah, of course.

Just for clarity: one can't place Dr. J in the Sixer list based on his '76 campaign [because it didn't happen in Philly], correct?

Also, are we following the actual franchise lineages [my preference], and not just following the city? e.g. Arizin as part of the Philadelphia Warriors could not be considered as one of the five peaks for the Philadelphia 76'ers.

Also worth clarifying whether Baron Davis played for 2 Hornets franchises or 1 (i.e. actual franchise lineage or official/"we used have a better brand in Charlotte, why don't you have that old one and our history and we'll pretend we just sprang into being and weren't moved").

[Baski]

Does one season per player mean that one player can't appear in more than one franchise's top 5? Like say Durant in OKC/GSW/Brooklyn

[Odinn21]

While we're at it, are we allowing ABA antecedents?

For example, Dr. J is obviously to be counted as a Sixer.

But are we also counting him as a Net?

Yeah, of course.

Just for clarity: one can't place Dr. J in the Sixer list based on his '76 campaign [because it didn't happen in Philly], correct?

Also, are we following the actual franchise lineages [my preference], and not just following the city? e.g. Arizin as part of the Philadelphia Warriors could not be considered as one of the five peaks for the Philadelphia 76'ers.

I don’t know how to clarify exactly in English but the pool to select from is the franchise history.
1976 Erving is available for the Nets franchise history.
1982 Erving is available for the Sixers franchise history.
There’s no cross-section.

-

Does one season per player mean that one player can't appear in more than one franchise's top 5? Like say Durant in OKC/GSW/Brooklyn

Players can be voted in for different franchises. What I meant by no duplicates was to avoid having 5 seasons of Jordan for the Bulls for instance. There’s no limitations about players showing up in different franchise top 5s. Shaq is likely to be in Orlando/LA/Miami teams.

[trex_8063]

Also, are we following the actual franchise lineages [my preference], and not just following the city? e.g. Arizin as part of the Philadelphia Warriors could not be considered as one of the five peaks for the Philadelphia 76'ers.

.

I understand wrt my question about the Dr. J example.

If you could just provide clarity on the above question, too.
I ask because I once saw a discussion pertaining to team achievements, and [for example] the '56 title was credited to "Philadelphia" the same as the '83 title.....even though they're entirely different franchises.

To frame the question easily: if I wanted to include '52 Paul Arizin [for example] as one of my top 5 single-season peaks, it would be listed under the [Golden State] Warriors franchise, correct?

[HeartBreakKid]

Also, are we following the actual franchise lineages [my preference], and not just following the city? e.g. Arizin as part of the Philadelphia Warriors could not be considered as one of the five peaks for the Philadelphia 76'ers.

.

I understand wrt my question about the Dr. J example.

If you could just provide clarity on the above question, too.
I ask because I once saw a discussion pertaining to team achievements, and [for example] the '56 title was credited to "Philadelphia" the same as the '83 title.....even though they're entirely different franchises.

To frame the question easily: if I wanted to include '52 Paul Arizin [for example] as one of my top 5 single-season peaks, it would be listed under the [Golden State] Warriors franchise, correct?

Yes, they're different franchises. Being in the same city is not relevant (I would hope :O). Clippers and Lakers are still in the same city today for example.

[LA Bird]

I am in.

Not sure if it is feasible but there could also be an extra round at the end for all the defunct franchises combined. There are some good seasons from Dr J, Barry, Gilmore and Hawkins on ABA teams that no longer exist.

[Odinn21]

Also, are we following the actual franchise lineages [my preference], and not just following the city? e.g. Arizin as part of the Philadelphia Warriors could not be considered as one of the five peaks for the Philadelphia 76'ers.

.

I understand wrt my question about the Dr. J example.

If you could just provide clarity on the above question, too.
I ask because I once saw a discussion pertaining to team achievements, and [for example] the '56 title was credited to "Philadelphia" the same as the '83 title.....even though they're entirely different franchises.

To frame the question easily: if I wanted to include '52 Paul Arizin [for example] as one of my top 5 single-season peaks, it would be listed under the [Golden State] Warriors franchise, correct?

Yes, correct. 1952 Paul Arizin is eligible for the Golden State Warriors franchise history. The project is franchise bound, not city bound.

[falcolombardi]

i wonder if seattle and oklahoma could be separated

okc actually can be a very interesting debate on its own

if sea and okc get separated threads we can bring up discussion for some very interesting players that likely wouldnt make top 5 for the "combined" top 5

like dennis johnson, 2012 james harden, sikma, paul george, schrempf, 2020 chris paul, etc

[Hornet Mania]

I don't know how much I'll contribute due to work schedule, but I would definitely like to chime in on Charlotte.

I have a question specific to that franchise as well. You mentioned in the OP that franchise history should be team specific in the case of relocation and used OKC/Seattle as an example.

In the case of the original Charlotte Hornets that would mean it would go Charlotte Hornets (1988-2002) > New Orleans Hornets > New Orleans Pelicans and LJ/Zo/Glen Rice would count for the Pelicans history.

Whereas the current Charlotte franchise would have a consistent thread from Charlotte Bobcats > Charlotte Hornets (2014-2021).

The current Charlotte Hornets franchise history is a relatively unique situation though in that the entire 1988-2002 Hornets history has been returned to the new Charlotte franchise officially. So according to the NBA Charlotte Hornets history runs from 1988-2002 and then merges with Bobcats/Hornets history from 2004-2021. The New Orleans Pelicans officially only consider their franchise history from 2003 onward, so someone like Muggsy Bogues does not appear on their all-time statistical lists.

With this being the case would it be appropriate to include Larry Johnson or Glen Rice for their Charlotte Hornets peaks or should they only be considered as Pelicans? Personally I think it makes sense to consider the situation the same way the league views that history, but I will defer to the OP's judgment.

Edit: I just checked Bball Reference since the OP mentioned that was the standard and it merges Hornets 88-02 with Bobcats/Hornets 04-21, so I guess that answers my question

[Odinn21]

In the case of the original Charlotte Hornets that would mean it would go Charlotte Hornets (1988-2002) > New Orleans Hornets > New Orleans Pelicans and LJ/Zo/Glen Rice would count for the Pelicans history.

Whereas the current Charlotte franchise would have a consistent thread from Charlotte Bobcats > Charlotte Hornets (2014-2021).

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHA/
Charlotte Hornets 1988-2002 > Charlotte Bobcats 2004-2014 > Charlotte Hornets 2014-
Bogues, Rice, Zo, LK are part of this franchise lineage, not the Pelicans history.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NOH/
New Orleans Hornets 2002-2013 > New Orleans Pelicans 2013-
CP3, D. West and AD are part of this franchise lineage.

[HeartBreakKid]

Basically the team(s) that were physically in Charlotte share the same lineage. The ones in New Orleans have their own.

[HeartBreakKid]

I did notice that once Dolph Schayes got a 2nd place vote he was basically clinched in (he ended up winning the majority of 5th place votes anyway).

Perhaps there could be a system where every player has their highest result omitted. Could be a way to check outlier votes, if that is a problem.

[Odinn21]

I did notice that once Dolph Schayes got a 2nd place vote he was basically clinched in (he ended up winning the majority of 5th place votes anyway).

Perhaps there could be a system where every player has their highest result omitted. Could be a way to check outlier votes, if that is a problem.

I was thinking about running a short run-off if the results are disturbed with an outlier. Or we can rely on median. Current point system is just a mean average system with a slight tweak towards #1 vote. Looking at median as a tiebreaker would eliminate the impact of an outlier.