OT: Derek Chauvin Verdict Is In

[Im Coming Home]

I gotta ask the board because I'm seeing a lot of mixed reaction to the Ma'Khia Bryant story..

My personal reaction is that its a very sad story that unfortunately caused the lost of a life of a 16 year old but, I don't see how anyone could fully fault the officer for this situation. Within 10-15 seconds of him exiting his patrol car and asking whats going on, Ma'Khia was literally mid-stabbing motion toward another person. And this point he's too far away from the situation to disarm her, too far away for a taser to be quick and effective enough to stop her from stabbing the possible victim and I don't see how people expect the cop to just let her stab the other person in front of him, then he'd be getting crap for that too. I've seen people saying 'she was getting jumped' but the cop doesn't know that, and the fact that she was getting jumped doesn't give her the green light to just start stabbing the other people who didn't have a weapon(at least didn't have a weapon while Ma'Khia was about to stab them)

I've seen crazy takes like people saying he should've shot the knife out of her hand.

I've also seen more logical takes like 'why wasn't the taser used' but if you really think about it, tasers aren't that fast, and he had about .5 a second to react to the stabbing motion he was seeing in front of him.

I'm trying to see others perspectives on this because maybe I'm just ignorant and not seeing it from another lens. I think its a sad terrible story that unfortunately left a 16 year old dead but I also don't see what other action the cop could've done in order to protect the possible stab victim and also not shoot Ma'Khia Bryant.

[HarthorneWingo]

^^^ Because we don’t give officers the benefit of the doubt anymore. They lost that. It’s as simple as that.

[HarthorneWingo]

Shyt be happening

Watch on YouTube

[8516knicks]

I gotta ask the board because I'm seeing a lot of mixed reaction to the Ma'Khia Bryant story..

My personal reaction is that its a very sad story that unfortunately caused the lost of a life of a 16 year old but, I don't see how anyone could fully fault the officer for this situation. Within 10-15 seconds of him exiting his patrol car and asking whats going on, Ma'Khia was literally mid-stabbing motion toward another person. And this point he's too far away from the situation to disarm her, too far away for a taser to be quick and effective enough to stop her from stabbing the possible victim and I don't see how people expect the cop to just let her stab the other person in front of him, then he'd be getting crap for that too. I've seen people saying 'she was getting jumped' but the cop doesn't know that, and the fact that she was getting jumped doesn't give her the green light to just start stabbing the other people who didn't have a weapon(at least didn't have a weapon while Ma'Khia was about to stab them)

I've seen crazy takes like people saying he should've shot the knife out of her hand.

I've also seen more logical takes like 'why wasn't the taser used' but if you really think about it, tasers aren't that fast, and he had about .5 a second to react to the stabbing motion he was seeing in front of him.

I'm trying to see others perspectives on this because maybe I'm just ignorant and not seeing it from another lens. I think its a sad terrible story that unfortunately left a 16 year old dead but I also don't see what other action the cop could've done in order to protect the possible stab victim and also not shoot Ma'Khia Bryant.

****
I agree. Lots of factors at play in the general overall policing problem. Even with Chauvin's case, it comes off more small man with a power trip being challenged than KKK style racism. How else to explain his vice-like focus with the knee on the neck continuing for 9 plus minutes even AFTER the emt arrived. I mean WHAT WAS GOING THROUGH HIS MIND? Did he not see his own career and LIFE going up in smoke? So many decisions (no to check Floyd's condition at 1. passing out 2. can't find pulse and then 3. Not rendering medical assistance once everyone else could see Mr. Floyd was on the verge of death.

And then with lots of these others like the white Utah woman with dementia and the cop nailing her for "stealing $14" from Walmart! And the yutz who pulled his gun on the VA Lt.

Economics and also the flood of mentally challenged people Regan released piling up over the years not to mention people with problems (foster kids like Ma'Khia who guaranteed have social problems) - paired with cops trained to assert dominance INSTANTLY and BROOK NO OPPOSITION. All it would have taken was for Mr. Floyd to sit and chill a bit but for some reason there was a RUSH to subdue him. Why the rush? Late for donuts and coffee?

Too bad we can't go to gunless like the UK. Then we'd cut out the mass shooting of the day as well Maybe we should call them the GOP Olympic shooting competitions.

[Im Coming Home]

^^^ Because we don’t give officers the benefit of the doubt anymore. They lost that. It’s as simple as that.

I think thats fair most of the time, but some people are doubling down even after the video came out and saying 'justice for Ma'Khia' and acting like her situation is on the same level as the George Floyd murder, when clearly its not.

I just don't get it, I'm trying to see it through another lens to maybe understand why people feel this way. I do agree with them it is terrible that a 16 year old girl lost her life due to the situation, but I also don't know what else the cop was supposed to do, he had two choices, either shoot the person about to stab another, or let the stabbing happen. He had no context, he didn't know she was 16, he didn't have enough to react or de-escalate the situation, etc.

I'm all for thinking cops are bad, and cannot be trusted, but in this case I don't think it falls under the same category as the others people are trying to place it with.

[8516knicks]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/doj-weighs-charging-chauvin-for-2017-incident-involving-black-teen-source/ar-BB1fYGCE?ocid=msedgdhp

[HarthorneWingo]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/doj-weighs-charging-chauvin-for-2017-incident-involving-black-teen-source/ar-BB1fYGCE?ocid=msedgdhp

They should prosecute him for that too. So many cops need to go to jail. This is just the tippy tippy-top of the iceberg. I practiced police civil rights cases for almost 30 years. You have no idea.

[HarthorneWingo]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/north-carolina-andrew-brown-police-kill-black-man_n_60838aa7e4b0ccb91c243a90

ELIZABETH CITY, N.C. (AP) — Seven North Carolina deputies have been placed on leave in the aftermath of a Black man being shot and killed by members of their department serving drug-related search and arrest warrants, authorities said Friday.

The disclosure comes as calls increase for the release of deputy body camera footage amid signs, including emergency scanner traffic, that Andrew Brown Jr. was shot in the back and killed as he was trying to drive away.

Pasquotank County Sheriff’s Office Maj. Aaron Wallio confirmed the number of deputies on leave due to the shooting in an email Friday. Sheriff Tommy Wooten II has previously said that multiple deputies fired shots and were placed on leave after Brown was killed Wednesday morning.

Wallio’s email also said that another three deputies have recently resigned, but he later clarified that the resignations were unrelated to the shooting. He said the department has about 55 total sworn deputies.

Democratic Gov. Roy Cooper joined calls for the swift release of the body camera footage, saying that initial reports of what happened “are tragic and extremely concerning.”

“The body camera footage should be made public as quickly as possible,” he said in a tweet Friday night.

Earlier in the day, the City Council in Elizabeth City unanimously voted to send a letter to the sheriff, local prosecutor and State Bureau of Investigation demanding release of body camera footage. The measure also directed city staff to petition a local court to release the footage if the sheriff denies the council’s request. Wooten has confirmed that at least one deputy was wearing an active body camera but hasn’t given a timetable for releasing it.

“Doing nothing is not an option,” said Councilman Michael Brooks.

The council’s measure isn’t binding on the Pasquotank County Sheriff’s Office, which is a separate entity from city government. In North Carolina, a judge must generally sign off on release of body camera footage, but the law says anyone can file a petition in court seeking its release. A coalition of news outlets including The Associated Press also filed a petition Friday asking a local judge to release the footage.

White House press secretary Jen Psaki said Friday that President Joe Biden is aware of Brown’s death, but that Biden would likely leave decisions over the timetable for releasing body camera footage to local authorities.

“Obviously, the loss of life is a tragedy and obviously we’re thinking of the family members and the community,” Psaki said at her daily briefing.

Wooten has said deputies from his department including a tactical team were attempting to serve drug-related search and arrest warrants when Brown was shot, but he has offered few other details. Nearby Dare County had issued two arrest warrants for Brown on drug-related charges including possession with intent to sell cocaine. Brown, 42, had a criminal history dating back to the 1990s, including past drug convictions.

Recordings of scanner traffic compiled by broadcastify.com from the morning of the shooting include emergency personnel indicating that Brown was shot in the back. An eyewitness has said that deputies fired shots at Brown as he tried to drive away, and a car authorities removed from the scene appeared to have multiple bullet holes and a shattered back window.

“We are responding. Law enforcement on scene advises shots fired, need EMS,” says one woman, who refers to the address where the warrant was served.

“EMS has got one male 42 years of age, gunshot to the back. We do have viable pulse at this time,” said a male voice. Someone then said that first responders were trying to resuscitate the man.

The sheriff, district attorney and state medical examiner didn’t immediately respond to emails Friday asking for comment on the scanner traffic. The State Bureau of Investigation, which is looking into the shooting, declined to comment.

WAVY-TV first reported on Friday the number of deputies who were on leave or had resigned.

During demonstrations Thursday night, protesters questioned why deputies opened fire in a residential area down the street from an elementary school. Brown’s car came to rest in front of a house near yellow road signs marking the approach to the school.

“That means they fired a shot in a school zone,” Quentin Jackson, regional director for the National Black Caucus of Local Elected Officials, said while addressing a group of fellow demonstrators.

People in the crowd nodded and shouted, “Yeah.” One man yelled, “And they fired into a moving vehicle.”

“When does this stop?” Jackson asked. “When does it stop?”

On Wednesday night, hours after the shooting, Mike Gordon, who lives in the house where Brown’s car hit a tree and came to a stop, showed a reporter a bullet hole next to his front door that went through an antique wall clock and all the way into his kitchen.

“I’m happy and thankful to the Lord that my wife and I wasn’t home,” he said.

Still, Gordon, a former military police officer, said he’s thankful for the work law enforcement does, and he hoped people would reserve judgment until the facts come out.

“You never know what had happened or what went wrong,” he said. “But it doesn’t matter now. The young man is gone.”

___

Drew reported from Durham, North Carolina.

[HarthorneWingo]

What about rubber bullets?

[HarthorneWingo]

Black man shot and killed by NC cop who mistook the cell phone he was holding to his ear as a gun.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/isaiah-brown-shot-spotsylvania-deputy_n_60858202e4b09a22a4431a79

Drunk PA cop harasses Black man in coffee shot for no reason.

Watch on YouTube

[NYKAL]

I gotta ask the board because I'm seeing a lot of mixed reaction to the Ma'Khia Bryant story..

My personal reaction is that its a very sad story that unfortunately caused the lost of a life of a 16 year old but, I don't see how anyone could fully fault the officer for this situation. Within 10-15 seconds of him exiting his patrol car and asking whats going on, Ma'Khia was literally mid-stabbing motion toward another person. And this point he's too far away from the situation to disarm her, too far away for a taser to be quick and effective enough to stop her from stabbing the possible victim and I don't see how people expect the cop to just let her stab the other person in front of him, then he'd be getting crap for that too. I've seen people saying 'she was getting jumped' but the cop doesn't know that, and the fact that she was getting jumped doesn't give her the green light to just start stabbing the other people who didn't have a weapon(at least didn't have a weapon while Ma'Khia was about to stab them)

I've seen crazy takes like people saying he should've shot the knife out of her hand.

I've also seen more logical takes like 'why wasn't the taser used' but if you really think about it, tasers aren't that fast, and he had about .5 a second to react to the stabbing motion he was seeing in front of him.

I'm trying to see others perspectives on this because maybe I'm just ignorant and not seeing it from another lens. I think its a sad terrible story that unfortunately left a 16 year old dead but I also don't see what other action the cop could've done in order to protect the possible stab victim and also not shoot Ma'Khia Bryant.

I agree that is is a tragedy but, if I saw a choice between letting a girl get stabbed (that arm was cocked back to swing) or stopping the stabbing. I feel bad for the officer who was put in a position where he had to take a life to safeguard another. I've been in scraps as a kid where the cops showed up. No matter how hot the situation was, we knew to chill the f out once the cops showed up. She seemed completely out of control

[robillionaire]

the officer has legal justification for the shooting as the girl was attacking someone with a deadly weapon. my thing with that case is whether or not everybody would still be alive if they didn't show up and shoot someone. maybe someone gets stabbed, unlikely imo that someone gets killed, but ultimately I feel like they did more harm than good. we don't even know the whole story behind what was going on in that fight. maybe the Bryant felt she was defending herself against attackers? From what I'm reading it was her house and she was the one who called the cops in the first place to report people fighting in front of her house? (big mistake if true). Anyway my overall question is if we really want cops to pull up to every little scrap or teenager dust up and start shooting, does this practice make a community safer, personally I don't think it does

[HarthorneWingo]

the officer has legal justification for the shooting as the girl was attacking someone with a deadly weapon. my thing with that case is whether or not everybody would still be alive if they didn't show up and shoot someone. maybe someone gets stabbed, unlikely imo that someone gets killed, but ultimately I feel like they did more harm than good. we don't even know the whole story behind what was going on in that fight. maybe the Bryant felt she was defending herself against attackers? From what I'm reading it was her house and she was the one who called the cops in the first place to report people fighting in front of her house? (big mistake if true). Anyway my overall question is if we really want cops to pull up to every little scrap or teenager dust up and start shooting, does this practice make a community safer, personally I don't think it does

Right. How does the cop know whether Bryant was acting in self defense?

[HarthorneWingo]

I gotta ask the board because I'm seeing a lot of mixed reaction to the Ma'Khia Bryant story..

My personal reaction is that its a very sad story that unfortunately caused the lost of a life of a 16 year old but, I don't see how anyone could fully fault the officer for this situation. Within 10-15 seconds of him exiting his patrol car and asking whats going on, Ma'Khia was literally mid-stabbing motion toward another person. And this point he's too far away from the situation to disarm her, too far away for a taser to be quick and effective enough to stop her from stabbing the possible victim and I don't see how people expect the cop to just let her stab the other person in front of him, then he'd be getting crap for that too. I've seen people saying 'she was getting jumped' but the cop doesn't know that, and the fact that she was getting jumped doesn't give her the green light to just start stabbing the other people who didn't have a weapon(at least didn't have a weapon while Ma'Khia was about to stab them)

I've seen crazy takes like people saying he should've shot the knife out of her hand.

I've also seen more logical takes like 'why wasn't the taser used' but if you really think about it, tasers aren't that fast, and he had about .5 a second to react to the stabbing motion he was seeing in front of him.

I'm trying to see others perspectives on this because maybe I'm just ignorant and not seeing it from another lens. I think its a sad terrible story that unfortunately left a 16 year old dead but I also don't see what other action the cop could've done in order to protect the possible stab victim and also not shoot Ma'Khia Bryant.

I agree that is is a tragedy but, if I saw a choice between letting a girl get stabbed (that arm was cocked back to swing) or stopping the stabbing. I feel bad for the officer who was put in a position where he had to take a life to safeguard another. I've been in scraps as a kid where the cops showed up. No matter how hot the situation was, we knew to chill the f out once the cops showed up. She seemed completely out of control

I repeat, what’s wrong with rubber bullets?

[MelosSoreWrist]

the officer has legal justification for the shooting as the girl was attacking someone with a deadly weapon. my thing with that case is whether or not everybody would still be alive if they didn't show up and shoot someone. maybe someone gets stabbed, unlikely imo that someone gets killed, but ultimately I feel like they did more harm than good. we don't even know the whole story behind what was going on in that fight. maybe the Bryant felt she was defending herself against attackers? From what I'm reading it was her house and she was the one who called the cops in the first place to report people fighting in front of her house? (big mistake if true). Anyway my overall question is if we really want cops to pull up to every little scrap or teenager dust up and start shooting, does this practice make a community safer, personally I don't think it does

This is from the foster mom: It was her birthday. Two girls who aged out came back to celebrate their foster mom's birthday. When they arrived, the house was a mess. They told MaKhia to clean it up. It escalated from there.

We know MaKhia wasnt getting jumped when the police arrived. The girl in pink was standing around outside by the car. The other girl was getting toppled over by MaKhia with a knife in her hands. We also know MaKhia wasnt alone in the confrontation because a dude who was with another girl was kicking the girl who was toppled over.

Supposedly MaKhia's father and grandmother were there at the altercation. You can hear a man say something about his baby. After the shooting there are interviews from Makhia's mom, aunt and uncle saying all these sweet things about MaKhia etc. I am going to say it. Why was MaKhia in a foster home? Why pass on the responsibility of raising a teenager to another person? You got a father, mother, grandmother, uncle and aunt out there. She wasnt allowed/invited to live with any of them?

Just like the Adam Toledo death, I dont blame the cops. It's a tragedy when teenagers are killed but in these instances, they put themselves in situations to be shot. And really, if you are looking for blame and responsibility, besides the kids, put it on the parents and family of the kids.

Also,
https://www.fox19.com/2021/04/21/year-old-charged-fatal-stabbing-another-teen-remain-custody/

13 year old girl stabbed and killed another 13 year old girl. Same state, like a day apart.

[MelosSoreWrist]

I gotta ask the board because I'm seeing a lot of mixed reaction to the Ma'Khia Bryant story..

My personal reaction is that its a very sad story that unfortunately caused the lost of a life of a 16 year old but, I don't see how anyone could fully fault the officer for this situation. Within 10-15 seconds of him exiting his patrol car and asking whats going on, Ma'Khia was literally mid-stabbing motion toward another person. And this point he's too far away from the situation to disarm her, too far away for a taser to be quick and effective enough to stop her from stabbing the possible victim and I don't see how people expect the cop to just let her stab the other person in front of him, then he'd be getting crap for that too. I've seen people saying 'she was getting jumped' but the cop doesn't know that, and the fact that she was getting jumped doesn't give her the green light to just start stabbing the other people who didn't have a weapon(at least didn't have a weapon while Ma'Khia was about to stab them)

I've seen crazy takes like people saying he should've shot the knife out of her hand.

I've also seen more logical takes like 'why wasn't the taser used' but if you really think about it, tasers aren't that fast, and he had about .5 a second to react to the stabbing motion he was seeing in front of him.

I'm trying to see others perspectives on this because maybe I'm just ignorant and not seeing it from another lens. I think its a sad terrible story that unfortunately left a 16 year old dead but I also don't see what other action the cop could've done in order to protect the possible stab victim and also not shoot Ma'Khia Bryant.

I agree that is is a tragedy but, if I saw a choice between letting a girl get stabbed (that arm was cocked back to swing) or stopping the stabbing. I feel bad for the officer who was put in a position where he had to take a life to safeguard another. I've been in scraps as a kid where the cops showed up. No matter how hot the situation was, we knew to chill the f out once the cops showed up. She seemed completely out of control

I repeat, what’s wrong with rubber bullets?

First, I think shot from that distance, rubber bullets are pretty lethal. And I dont think these cops carry another gun with just rubber bullets anyway. So what you are asking is more of a going forward option. In which case, the question is, if it's your kid about to be stabbed, literally midstab, would you want the cop using tasers or rubber bullets? The less "lethal" it is, the less sure it is of it stopping the girl from stabbing your kid. If you say yes, I mean, good on you man, I guess.

[HarthorneWingo]

I agree that is is a tragedy but, if I saw a choice between letting a girl get stabbed (that arm was cocked back to swing) or stopping the stabbing. I feel bad for the officer who was put in a position where he had to take a life to safeguard another. I've been in scraps as a kid where the cops showed up. No matter how hot the situation was, we knew to chill the f out once the cops showed up. She seemed completely out of control

I repeat, what’s wrong with rubber bullets?

First, I think shot from that distance, rubber bullets are pretty lethal. And I dont think these cops carry another gun with just rubber bullets anyway. So what you are asking is more of a going forward option. In which case, the question is, if it's your kid about to be stabbed, literally midstab, would you want the cop using tasers or rubber bullets? The less "lethal" it is, the less sure it is of it stopping the girl from stabbing your kid. If you say yes, I mean, good on you man, I guess.

From what I understand, Bryant is the one who called the police and she was the one acting in self-defense. That's the problem with just rolling up on a scene guns a-blazing. You don't know who's who and you don't know what just happened before you rolled up.

A possible knife wound vs. a homicide? I'd love to know how police departments in other countries like Australia, Germany, France, and England would respond to such an incident. I'm also looking forward to hearing from our best experts. I'm really not here to blame the cop. I understand that he wasn't well-trained to respond to this split second situation. But he should've been. It's not unforeseeable for police to respond to a scene where they don't know who is the perp and who is the victim in a brawl. But I have to believe there was a better way here. I haven't had the time to do the research yet on it but it'll come out and hopefully it will result in a positive change for such police encounters in the future.

[NYKAL]

I agree that is is a tragedy but, if I saw a choice between letting a girl get stabbed (that arm was cocked back to swing) or stopping the stabbing. I feel bad for the officer who was put in a position where he had to take a life to safeguard another. I've been in scraps as a kid where the cops showed up. No matter how hot the situation was, we knew to chill the f out once the cops showed up. She seemed completely out of control

I repeat, what’s wrong with rubber bullets?

First, I think shot from that distance, rubber bullets are pretty lethal. And I dont think these cops carry another gun with just rubber bullets anyway. So what you are asking is more of a going forward option. In which case, the question is, if it's your kid about to be stabbed, literally midstab, would you want the cop using tasers or rubber bullets? The less "lethal" it is, the less sure it is of it stopping the girl from stabbing your kid. If you say yes, I mean, good on you man, I guess.

I so rarely ever hear about Rubber Bullets being used, the thought never crossed my mind. I'm not sure that police or even all police departments issues those to their officers. At the same time, watching the video, the cop a split second. You are calling for superhuman levels of response. It's not realistic.

[Im Coming Home]

the officer has legal justification for the shooting as the girl was attacking someone with a deadly weapon. my thing with that case is whether or not everybody would still be alive if they didn't show up and shoot someone. maybe someone gets stabbed, unlikely imo that someone gets killed, but ultimately I feel like they did more harm than good. we don't even know the whole story behind what was going on in that fight. maybe the Bryant felt she was defending herself against attackers? From what I'm reading it was her house and she was the one who called the cops in the first place to report people fighting in front of her house? (big mistake if true). Anyway my overall question is if we really want cops to pull up to every little scrap or teenager dust up and start shooting, does this practice make a community safer, personally I don't think it does

Right. How does the cop know whether Bryant was acting in self defense?

Even if she was, cops had none of this context at the time, if you watch the video, within 10 seconds of getting out of his patrol car and asking repeatedly whats going on, Ma'Khia was literally mid-stabbing motion at the woman in pink. He had almost no time to react or make a decision, he didn't have a rubber bullet gun on him(and at that 10' range would've been lethal I think) and a taser would've been too slow and possibly fail(tasers have a 69% success rate I believe). He was too far from Ma'Khia by the time she was in the stabbing motion as well. So he had to make the decision to either let Ma'Khia stab the girl in pink, or defend the girl in pink.

Plus acting in self defense doesn't give you the right to go stab someone I don't think, especially when they're on the defense at the point and you're on the offensive with the knife and lunging toward them.

The one thing the cop could've tried to do was announce his presence louder and hoping that Ma'Khia would hear him and stop what she was doing before even going to stab the woman in pink.

"A possible knife wound vs. a homicide? " A knife is considered a lethal weapon for a reason, sure theres a chance she would get just a knife wound, or theres a chance Ma'Khia stabs a major artery of the other woman and the woman dies on the scene and then people would be asking 'why didn't the cop save the woman from being stabbed, he was right there!'

Look I'm all for being distrustful of cops and calling them out when they're in the wrong here, and its terrible that a 16 year old girl has lost her life due to this, but I don't really think you can say with the knowledge the cop had on him with the 10 seconds of context he got from getting out of his car, to the shooting, that he could've really done something else aside from letting the girl in pink get stabbed and then trying to deescalate the situation.

[NYKAL]

^^^ Because we don’t give officers the benefit of the doubt anymore. They lost that. It’s as simple as that.

I think thats fair most of the time, but some people are doubling down even after the video came out and saying 'justice for Ma'Khia' and acting like her situation is on the same level as the George Floyd murder, when clearly its not.

I just don't get it, I'm trying to see it through another lens to maybe understand why people feel this way. I do agree with them it is terrible that a 16 year old girl lost her life due to the situation, but I also don't know what else the cop was supposed to do, he had two choices, either shoot the person about to stab another, or let the stabbing happen. He had no context, he didn't know she was 16, he didn't have enough to react or de-escalate the situation, etc.

I'm all for thinking cops are bad, and cannot be trusted, but in this case I don't think it falls under the same category as the others people are trying to place it with.

my issues is where is the parents responsibility? That type of anger does not happen in a vacuum. They should have gotten her help a long time ago. Too often these signs are ignored until it's too late. Even is she started out as the victim, by the time the cops got there, she was the aggressor with people running from her.