NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21)

[Woodsanity]

What? How do you assume this when neither guy played a full season? How do you know what Lebron/Embiid would have done in a healthy season? This makes no sense to me.

It wouldn't have mattered, because Jokic still had the strongest case at one point before they went down, and he led most advanced stats, yet was a distant third in the MVP standings. If you remember, writers really wanted to give the award to LeBron. You know how narrative matters in this race, and even though Jokic leads easily right and will win, you could argue that he still don't have a narrative going for him.

Sure, but who cares about the writers? As a fan, I would have enjoyed it. And regardless of what place you put each in, think we all agree that Embiid, Jokic, and Lebron were having MVP potential seasons. As a fan, I would have loved to see a tight race and all three of them at their best.

Whats impressive about Jokic's season is how he didn't drop off much if at all despite playing the whole season. Most players experience fatigue at some point. Lebron used to be able to do this a lotwhen he was younger, now he has a lot of mileage and is old.

Embiid doing such a thing is a fantasy scenario, he is injury prone. The most games he has ever played in a season is 64....
If Embiid played most of the season he would be playing through injury which would honestly be a bad idea as that would make him unhealthy for the playoffs. Also his numbers would go down drastically.

[kuclas]

It wouldn't have mattered, because Jokic still had the strongest case at one point before they went down, and he led most advanced stats, yet was a distant third in the MVP standings. If you remember, writers really wanted to give the award to LeBron. You know how narrative matters in this race, and even though Jokic leads easily right and will win, you could argue that he still don't have a narrative going for him.

Sure, but who cares about the writers? As a fan, I would have enjoyed it. And regardless of what place you put each in, think we all agree that Embiid, Jokic, and Lebron were having MVP potential seasons. As a fan, I would have loved to see a tight race and all three of them at their best.

Whats impressive about Jokic's season is how he didn't drop off much if at all despite playing the whole season. Most players experience fatigue at some point. Lebron used to be able to do this a lotwhen he was younger, now he has a lot of mileage and is old.

Embiid doing such a thing is a fantasy scenario, he is injury prone. The most games he has ever played in a season is 64....
If Embiid played most of the season he would be playing through injury which would honestly be a bad idea as that would make him unhealthy for the playoffs. Also his numbers would go down drastically.

Jokic is really durable. It's a credit to him and despite funny criticism of him being out of shape, he's never injured. He plays in high altitude Denver as well.

Personally I don't like to see him playing 35/36 minutes a game this season. He may be able to do it for another 1-2 years. But true Bigs the past 20 years. You really seem coaches limiting their bigs to around 32 minutes a game after a certain age.

Props to Jokic for an outstanding season. He's got my vote. He should get all the first place votes. People tired of Giannis (he's having the same type of season this year) but mvp fatigue. Lebron/Embiid injured. Curry team is worst than Jokic. CP3 the media will try to sneak in some votes to get a Steve Nash type of MVP voting.

[Woodsanity]

Sure, but who cares about the writers? As a fan, I would have enjoyed it. And regardless of what place you put each in, think we all agree that Embiid, Jokic, and Lebron were having MVP potential seasons. As a fan, I would have loved to see a tight race and all three of them at their best.

Whats impressive about Jokic's season is how he didn't drop off much if at all despite playing the whole season. Most players experience fatigue at some point. Lebron used to be able to do this a lotwhen he was younger, now he has a lot of mileage and is old.

Embiid doing such a thing is a fantasy scenario, he is injury prone. The most games he has ever played in a season is 64....
If Embiid played most of the season he would be playing through injury which would honestly be a bad idea as that would make him unhealthy for the playoffs. Also his numbers would go down drastically.

Jokic is really durable. It's a credit to him and despite funny criticism of him being out of shape, he's never injured. He plays in high altitude Denver as well.

Personally I don't like to see him playing 35/36 minutes a game this season. He may be able to do it for another 1-2 years. But true Bigs the past 20 years. You really seem coaches limiting their bigs to around 32 minutes a game after a certain age.

Props to Jokic for an outstanding season. He's got my vote. He should get all the first place votes. People tired of Giannis (he's having the same type of season this year) but mvp fatigue. Lebron/Embiid injured. Curry team is worst than Jokic. CP3 the media will try to sneak in some votes to get a Steve Nash type of MVP voting.

Well I think the fact that Jokic can't jump that high actually helps him durability wise. Lots of players get hurt doing crazy feats of athleticism. Jokic doesn't rely on crazy hops or anything like that so he won't get hurt from doing those types of athletic stunts.

Also Jokic does not flop much like some other players, I firmly believe that flopping a lot can increase the chances of injury.

[Mickey8]

ESPN RPM update:

Steph #1 in both RPM and RPM WINS.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm

I think thats the useless statistical category , lots of injuries and changes in the roster can affect that.

[eathb_au]

Who's actually second for real?

[eathb_au]

Whats impressive about Jokic's season is how he didn't drop off much if at all despite playing the whole season. Most players experience fatigue at some point. Lebron used to be able to do this a lotwhen he was younger, now he has a lot of mileage and is old.

Embiid doing such a thing is a fantasy scenario, he is injury prone. The most games he has ever played in a season is 64....
If Embiid played most of the season he would be playing through injury which would honestly be a bad idea as that would make him unhealthy for the playoffs. Also his numbers would go down drastically.

Jokic is really durable. It's a credit to him and despite funny criticism of him being out of shape, he's never injured. He plays in high altitude Denver as well.

Personally I don't like to see him playing 35/36 minutes a game this season. He may be able to do it for another 1-2 years. But true Bigs the past 20 years. You really seem coaches limiting their bigs to around 32 minutes a game after a certain age.

Props to Jokic for an outstanding season. He's got my vote. He should get all the first place votes. People tired of Giannis (he's having the same type of season this year) but mvp fatigue. Lebron/Embiid injured. Curry team is worst than Jokic. CP3 the media will try to sneak in some votes to get a Steve Nash type of MVP voting.

Well I think the fact that Jokic can't jump that high actually helps him durability wise. Lots of players get hurt doing crazy feats of athleticism. Jokic doesn't rely on crazy hops or anything like that so he won't get hurt from doing those types of athletic stunts.

Also Jokic does not flop much like some other players, I firmly believe that flopping a lot can increase the chances of injury.

Another thing that people don't notice about Jokic is the way he falls down, when he falls he basically always roll to the side so that he lands on his thigh/hip/bum so that his ankle/knee is never hurt. I don't know if it's intentional but it's what I've noticed.

[Sgt Major]

Read on Twitter

[greekbuck34]

Jokic still has more Defensive PA than Giannis and Gobert? Jesus this metric is broken.

[stoo]

Jokic still has more Defensive PA than Giannis and Gobert? Jesus this metric is broken.

not really. it's just that people can't or don't want to see Jokic's contribution on defensive end of the court because it happens few times per game that opposing players score easily on him. But there are a lot of other possessions where he positions himself in a way that a player doesn't even attempts a shot, he deflects a ton of balls and steals them and rebounds

[greekbuck34]

Jokic still has more Defensive PA than Giannis and Gobert? Jesus this metric is broken.

not really. it's just that people can't or don't want to see Jokic's contribution on defensive end of the court because it happens few times per game that opposing players score easily on him. But there are a lot of other possessions where he positions himself in a way that a player doesn't even attempts a shot, he deflects a ton of balls and steals them and rebounds

I'm not say he is completely trash but only that he has nowhere near a DPOY's level of impact.

[Woodsanity]

Jokic still has more Defensive PA than Giannis and Gobert? Jesus this metric is broken.

not really. it's just that people can't or don't want to see Jokic's contribution on defensive end of the court because it happens few times per game that opposing players score easily on him. But there are a lot of other possessions where he positions himself in a way that a player doesn't even attempts a shot, he deflects a ton of balls and steals them and rebounds

I'm not say he is completely trash but only that he has nowhere near a DPOY's level of impact.

Agreed Jokic is actually decent on defense this season but he's above average at most not an elite defender.

[FinnTheHuman]

Jokic still has more Defensive PA than Giannis and Gobert? Jesus this metric is broken.

not really. it's just that people can't or don't want to see Jokic's contribution on defensive end of the court because it happens few times per game that opposing players score easily on him. But there are a lot of other possessions where he positions himself in a way that a player doesn't even attempts a shot, he deflects a ton of balls and steals them and rebounds

I'm not say he is completely trash but only that he has nowhere near a DPOY's level of impact.

Yeah, that's a cumulative stat, and Jokic played the most minutes by far, so that is the main reason why it's showing what it's showing. But it indeed isn't an accurate stat at listing the quality of defenders if it has him above some guys.

[BoatsNZones]

This one is bubble wrapped and out for delivery. He won't be unanimous but it'll be a dominant win. Curry's last-gasp late hopes to make it a talking point (still would have been near impossible despite my late case) were crushed with the last 2 L's. Feels-bad watching him on these Warriors right now. And I can't see a case that many will be able to pull together for Embiid. Maybe 1/15 voters will lean his way.

Incredibly deserving MVP. Had him as my guy on here even when they were the 9 seed in the early going (you could tell by his/their play and their net that they were poised to latter-up the standings, and my point was that it was too early to let standings matter given those facts. I think he was 30:1 at that point). Some players had better runs for a month or two, but he was the best from start to finish. Cool to see the MVP out there playing every night as well. And they needed it from him.

[Kobe187]

Jokic probably takes this. The better question is who’s currently 2nd? It’s very close between Giannis/Curry/Embiid/Doncic.

[dygaction]

Jokic takes this. The better question is who’s the runner up? It’s close between Giannis/Curry/Embiid/Doncic.

I will replace Curry with CP3 now. Curry had to perform at that level with little margin of error due to team record.

[kuclas]

If sixers keep winning by average of 30 at home. Embiid numbers will keep going lower. Gonna to be weird down the stretch. Like scrimmages the last 3 games for sixers against injured teams plus full starting lineup at home where sixers haven’t lost with those starting lineups in over 1.5 years.

Jokic is clear mvp. Second place likely distant second play is likely Embiid. Than curry and than cp3 now. Giannis is having the same year as last year. Which was great year. But bucks worst this season.

[MindState]

Jokic has virtually no competition. Its over.

[FinnTheHuman]

Jokic takes this. The better question is who’s the runner up? It’s close between Giannis/Curry/Embiid/Doncic.

I would add Gobert there.

[Big J]

Bron had a near triple double last night, he's right back in this thing.

[Kobe187]

Bron had a near triple double last night, he's right back in this thing.

Lol stop trolling.