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Patrick Lee Williams Comps?

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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#121 » by Dan Z » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:34 pm

If a team offered the #5 pick in the upcoming draft would you take it? I'm trying to gauge what you think his value is.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#122 » by GoBlue72391 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:43 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
GoBlue72391 wrote:It's pretty much a rite of passage for a young Bulls player. Going from getting a free pass and having every mistake excused to being unfairly blamed for all of the team's problems. We've seen it happen to varying degrees with Lauri, WCJ, Coby, and now it's starting to happen with PWill.

I mean, if four straight top-7 picks are basically doing nothing for you…yeah they should be getting some of the blame? I don't think anybody here is blaming them for "all" the problems.

Everyone is to blame.
I'm just pointing out what happens to our young players, I didn't give my opinion on it one way or the other.

Regardless of what I think, the truth is that in general young players get a free pass and an unreasonable amount of excuses until it turns out they're probably not gonna become the player the fanbase hoped they would, at which point the fanbase does a 180 and goes from unreasonably apologetic to unreasonably critical.

As for how I feel, I don't think either of those things should happen. A rookie shouldn't get a free pass just because he's young and no one player should become the communal whipping boy because no one player is ever to blame for a team's problems. Praise and criticism should be dished out evenly and appropriately regardless of a player's experience, age, and level of development.

The only thing I would ask you is to define "basically doing nothing for you", because that's just as emotional and subjective as anything else I've discussed in this post. We definitely could have done better with our #7 picks, but we also could have done a hell of a lot worse.

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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#123 » by 2018C3 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:48 pm

Sure, I would consider.

I haven't followed who might be available.

To give up one draft position slot at another chance would be a easy "Yes", If there was another guy I was more interested in, who now fits the makeup of the team after the last trades were made.

I don't think any team would offer that.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#124 » by Dan Z » Sat May 1, 2021 12:13 am

2018C3 wrote:Sure, I would consider.

I haven't followed who might be available.

To give up one draft position slot at another chance would be a easy "Yes", If there was another guy I was more interested in, who now fits the makeup of the team after the last trades were made.

I don't think any team would offer that.


I can't think of any team that's made a move like that, but was wondering what the census was on his value.

Most mock drafts have Kuminga at #5. I don't know enough about him to really say how he'll be as an NBA player.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#125 » by SfBull » Sat May 1, 2021 12:25 am

Tony Snell comes to mind.People are expecting
more than he can deliver.Be used with the fact that AK overrated him drafting #4.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#126 » by SfBull » Sat May 1, 2021 12:30 am

He should sit on the bench for a while trying to learn how to play better.He's starting just because the Bulls have a weak roster.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#127 » by DASMACKDOWN » Sat May 1, 2021 12:39 am

Has anyone ever said that Isaac Okoro is trash from Cavs fans?
Im just trying to establish perspective.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#128 » by CobyWhite0 » Sat May 1, 2021 12:59 am

DASMACKDOWN wrote:Has anyone ever said that Isaac Okoro is trash from Cavs fans?
Im just trying to establish perspective.


I'm not a Bears fan, but I'm going to be very interested in what is said in our Bears thread on this forum over the next year or two.

Everyone seems to love Fields right now, but what happens if the Bears don't make the playoffs this season or next? I'm curious as to how soon Bears fans will turn of Fields - do they do it as quickly as they turn on Bulls draft picks?
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#129 » by DJhitek » Sat May 1, 2021 2:03 am

SfBull wrote:Tony Snell comes to mind.People are expecting
more than he can deliver.Be used with the fact that AK overrated him drafting #4.


Oh man that will stir the pot. I think they both are very passive offensive players but Williams feels like the better athlete.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#130 » by DJhitek » Sat May 1, 2021 2:18 am

AshyLarrysDiaper wrote:I'm way less concerned about how Pat's stats comp to other players than I am the absence of upside flashes. He has too much opportunity to have only logged two 20+ point games. Even on a play-by-play basis the wow moments are few and far between.

Look at Poku. Dude is a trainwreck and easily a worse player than Pat right now, but he looks like a complete freak at his high points. I'd rather see that kind of rookie season than one where a guy swings between invisible and serviceable and looks reluctant to impact the game for better or worse.


Poke was the one guy I wanted to draft if we traded down. But I completely agree, Poku has looked like a star scorer at times and he has had some crazy spurts of brilliance. Pat has not shown very much, at all really.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#131 » by Leslie Forman » Sat May 1, 2021 2:45 am

GoBlue72391 wrote:The only thing I would ask you is to define "basically doing nothing for you", because that's just as emotional and subjective as anything else I've discussed in this post. We definitely could have done better with our #7 picks, but we also could have done a hell of a lot worse.

Drafting complete and utter busts instead of Lauri-types is actually better for you because at least you know immediately that you should just move on, and you don't care so much about the sunk cost.

Drafting a player who is basically the equivalent of a 35-40 win team is, just like with team records, pretty much the worst situation you can find yourself in.

And that's being generous. So far the three 7s and Pat are looking more like good ol' 25-win teams at this point. They are players who basically add 0 wins to a low 30-win team right now.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#132 » by beeshma » Sat May 1, 2021 3:27 am

CobyWhite0 wrote:
DASMACKDOWN wrote:Has anyone ever said that Isaac Okoro is trash from Cavs fans?
Im just trying to establish perspective.


I'm not a Bears fan, but I'm going to be very interested in what is said in our Bears thread on this forum over the next year or two.

Everyone seems to love Fields right now, but what happens if the Bears don't make the playoffs this season or next? I'm curious as to how soon Bears fans will turn of Fields - do they do it as quickly as they turn on Bulls draft picks?


I think the Bears fans would turn very quickly! The dirty secret about Bears fans is that they have been trained for 35 years to tear apart our QBs. They don't know how to support a QB.

Bulls fans have proven to be long-suffering, but we split into factions, die hard Coby fans or Lauri fans. Soon there will be die hard PWill fans.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#133 » by DASMACKDOWN » Sat May 1, 2021 3:36 am

I basically am not paying attention to Pat until next year. He is bringing up my pressure.

He is so passive, that he could have a lineup of Felicio, Aminu, Valentine, and Arch and will still take a backseat to setup Felicio for shots. That part is where I draw the line.

There is kind of no excuse now. We have a game where there is no Zach, no Lauri, and Vooch completely struggling and there is zero uptick in his aggression or production. 19 or not that shouldnt happen.

I just wanted to pay attention to him the whole game. Just to see his movements, his reactions etc.

All I saw was im jogging down the court and b-lining straight to the corner. Like the whole game. He only cut like 4 times. And as soon as the shot goes up, Pat is already running back or should I say jogging back even though no players are even in the back court.

I think most of us are point out that its either he is being coached that way, or Pat is just lazy. If the coaches are telling him that, then someone needs to be fired. If not then someone needs to bench Pat.

If Pat stays like this, he will be a bust. Age or not.

35mins 6 shots. 5pts 5rebs 1stl 1blk WTF
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#134 » by Ice Man » Sat May 1, 2021 3:44 am

I am not saying that this is a big deal, because I believe that players pretty much are who they are because of their nature and ability, and that's not fair to credit others for their successes or to blame others for their failures, but ... I worried when he was named an NBA starter after having done nothing. I would have preferred him to be treated as LaMelo was -- come off the bench until you show that you're better than the guy who is starting ahead of you. But Pat was never asked to prove himself.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#135 » by SfBull » Sat May 1, 2021 3:44 am

DASMACKDOWN wrote:I basically am not paying attention to Pat until next year. He is bringing up my pressure.

He is so passive, that he could have a lineup of Felicio, Aminu, Valentine, and Arch and will still take a backseat to setup Felicio for shots. That part is where I draw the line.

There is kind of no excuse now. We have a game where there is no Zach, no Lauri, and Vooch completely struggling and there is zero uptick in his aggression or production. 19 or not that shouldnt happen.

I just wanted to pay attention to him the whole game. Just to see his movements, his reactions etc.

All I saw was im jogging down the court and b-lining straight to the corner. Like the whole game. He only cut like 4 times. And as soon as the shot goes up, Pat is already running back or should I say jogging back even though no players are even in the back court.

I think most of us are point out that its either he is being coached that way, or Pat is just lazy. If the coaches are telling him that, then someone needs to be fired. If not then someone needs to bench Pat.

If Pat stays like this, he will be a bust. Age or not.

35mins 6 shots. 5pts 5rebs 1stl 1blk WTF

Maybe that's his ceiling.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#136 » by DASMACKDOWN » Sat May 1, 2021 3:50 am

Ice Man wrote:I would have preferred him to be treated as LaMelo was -- come off the bench until you show that you're better than the guy who is starting ahead of you. But Pat was never asked to prove himself.


I dont think we really had a choice. The obvious choice would have been just to start Otto. But Otto is made of glass. Billy did try to hide Otto and save him by bringing him off the bench. But once Lauri went out, they had to start Otto anyway but he broke down nearly instantly.

Pat actually was actually somewhat aggressive in the preseason. But as soon as the regular season started, he certainly took a big step backward in that department.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#137 » by beeshma » Sat May 1, 2021 3:55 am

DASMACKDOWN wrote:I basically am not paying attention to Pat until next year. He is bringing up my pressure.

He is so passive, that he could have a lineup of Felicio, Aminu, Valentine, and Arch and will still take a backseat to setup Felicio for shots.


I remember with Tony Snell being so passive they made him point guard in summer league for the last few games. It actually seemed to work, and forced him to take responsibility for the team's success on each play. I am very curious if PWill could be given a role like this for a few games to see if he responds with more activity.

EDIT: given a primary ball handling role, not the point guard though!
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#138 » by GoBlue72391 » Sat May 1, 2021 4:48 am

DASMACKDOWN wrote:I basically am not paying attention to Pat until next year. He is bringing up my pressure.

He is so passive, that he could have a lineup of Felicio, Aminu, Valentine, and Arch and will still take a backseat to setup Felicio for shots. That part is where I draw the line.

There is kind of no excuse now. We have a game where there is no Zach, no Lauri, and Vooch completely struggling and there is zero uptick in his aggression or production. 19 or not that shouldnt happen.

I just wanted to pay attention to him the whole game. Just to see his movements, his reactions etc.

All I saw was im jogging down the court and b-lining straight to the corner. Like the whole game. He only cut like 4 times. And as soon as the shot goes up, Pat is already running back or should I say jogging back even though no players are even in the back court.

I think most of us are point out that its either he is being coached that way, or Pat is just lazy. If the coaches are telling him that, then someone needs to be fired. If not then someone needs to bench Pat.

If Pat stays like this, he will be a bust. Age or not.

35mins 6 shots. 5pts 5rebs 1stl 1blk WTF

With the exception of the Theis trade and the Temple signing, all of AKME's moves are looking highly questionable right now. From hiring Billy, to drafting PWill, to the Vuch trade...I'm beginning to lose confidence in our new FO.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#139 » by GoBlue72391 » Sat May 1, 2021 4:50 am

Ice Man wrote:I am not saying that this is a big deal, because I believe that players pretty much are who they are because of their nature and ability, and that's not fair to credit others for their successes or to blame others for their failures, but ... I worried when he was named an NBA starter after having done nothing. I would have preferred him to be treated as LaMelo was -- come off the bench until you show that you're better than the guy who is starting ahead of you. But Pat was never asked to prove himself.

Not only that, but he's been the only player on the entire roster who has been immune to any form of accountability this season. So he was handed an entitlement starting spot and 30 entitlement minutes per game without ever having to fear losing his spot or even having his minutes decreased.
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Re: Patrick Lee Williams Comps? 

Post#140 » by Senor Chang » Sat May 1, 2021 6:26 am

GoBlue72391 wrote:A couple rhetorical questions I have are:

- What if PWill was drafted 14th instead of 4th?

- What if GarPax was the one who drafted him 4th instead of AKME?

- What if we had never seen the footage of those offseason pick up games with NBA players? That seems to be the point where the majority of the fanbase went from skeptical of the PWill pick to all in on chugging the Kool-Aid (including myself).

- What if Stacey King wasn't pounding "PWill is a future superstar" into our heads at every opportunity like he was with every other rookie we've had for the past decade plus?

Would we still have these "the next Kawhi"/superstar expectations for him?


It's funny. Before the draft i probably would not have drafted Haiburton top 4 just because i didn't think he had superstar potential. However if AKME had drafted him at 4 i wouldn't have been mad because they got their guy. If Patrick was their guy then im glad they just took him instead of taking the risk and trading down. So that is how i rationalize drafting Pat a 4 and not expecting superstar results.
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