GT - Bulls v Bucks - 4/30 7 PM CST

[Am2626]

I think the most frustrating part about all of this, is in the offseason the nightmare will probably continue when we dont have our pick and we have Lauri and Theis go for nothing.

And honestly the frustrating part is, normally around this time, rookies and young players are actually improving around this time. Something to give you hope going into next year.

Last year it was Coby down the stretch.
Wendell was playing well before he got injured.
And we all know of Lauri's heroics in his rookie year.

Its very discouraging having Pat move backwards down the stretch.

Well Bears fans felt like this in the offseason and got sometihng to feel good about again. I hope it happens for us too.

Lauri means absolutely nothing. Let him go. The Bulls should do whatever they can to resign Theis. Since they already have him on the team don’t they have a better chance to resign him than another team? Can’t they offer him a better contract?

Also the Bulls don’t have their pick if it is not in the top 4. I could care less about another low level lottery pick. 4 straight years of that is way too long.

[Red8911]

I think the most frustrating part about all of this, is in the offseason the nightmare will probably continue when we dont have our pick and we have Lauri and Theis go for nothing.

And honestly the frustrating part is, normally around this time, rookies and young players are actually improving around this time. Something to give you hope going into next year.

Last year it was Coby down the stretch.
Wendell was playing well before he got injured.
And we all know of Lauri's heroics in his rookie year.

Its very discouraging having Pat move backwards down the stretch.

Well Bears fans felt like this in the offseason and got sometihng to feel good about again. I hope it happens for us too.

Lauri means absolutely nothing. Let him go. The Bulls should do whatever they can to resign Theis. Since they already have him on the team don’t they have a better chance to resign him than another team? Can’t they offer him a better contract?

Also the Bulls don’t have their pick if it is not in the top 4. I could care less about another low level lottery pick. 4 straight years of that is way too long.

I don’t think so,Theis is an unrestricted free agent. The only advantage could be that now he knows what it’s like in Chicago and on the Bulls. If he likes it here then he will maybe stay if he has to choose between teams with the same offer.

We don’t know what Theis is thinking though and we don’t know what kind of deal the bulls will offer him either. KC I believe has reported that they do like him and would want to bring him back but we ll see in the off-season. I’m sure more teams will target him as well and could make it complicated.

On Lauri he’s probably gone but losing him for nothing would suck. Would be nice if they can somehow do a sign and trade. If that don’t work then is the one year qualifying offer even an option at this point? Like Mirotic, sign for a year and use him as a trade later on.

[johnnyvann840]

I have had my share of criticizing Zach but I never said that. What I have said is that he doesn't make anyone around him better and I stand by that. He doesn't make much of a difference and doesn't really move the needle and that is one of this team's problems. I think Vuc suffers from the same issue. I didn't know it and was very pro-trade but I'm not sure if a team with both Zach and Vuc as it's two all star's is ever going to be a team where the sum is greater than it's parts.

I'm seriously worried about the construct of this team right now going into the off season and likely not having a draft pick this year. Our two best players and all stars both are defensive liabilities neither of them seem to have the leadership qualities that this team really needs. I'm willing to give it a chance... at least more of a chance than we have seen to this point which hasn't been much. I just think what this team needs is a fiery two way player who inspires his teammates and makes everyone around him better. Like a J Randle does in NYC or Jimmy does for all his teams. Like Chris Paul is doing in PHX right now.

I +1'd your post, but I have to ask - what, exactly, do you think a player has to do in order to "make anyone around him better"?

I’m not sure. He mentioned Randle as an example, but he looks like a PF version of Zach on offense. Takes lots of shots that would be considered “bad” but he is making them. He doesn’t really rack up assists so he isn’t making them better that way. He shoots significantly worse than Zach, has a similar ast/to ratio, doesn’t get to the free throw line a ton. Apparently he is a strong defender, but it’s not like he is anchoring a defense like Gobert. He has a better coach and better roster around him.

Randle DOES indeed rack up assists. He's averaging 6 assists per game. I think he has 8 triple doubles this season and has a ton of games where he is one or two assists short. The Knicks offense runs through him and he is the catalyst and lead playmaker... as a PF. He also averages over 24 PPG and over 10 RPG. He's also shooting .420 from 3 pt (which is BETTER than Zach) on over 5 attempts per game. He's really having an MVP type season. But, where he really makes a difference is on DEFENSE. He is a force. He is relentless. That team just feeds off of him. He ELEVATES that team in a huge way. oh, and he does get to the line over 6 times per game and he makes them at over 80%.

[Am2626]

I think the most frustrating part about all of this, is in the offseason the nightmare will probably continue when we dont have our pick and we have Lauri and Theis go for nothing.

And honestly the frustrating part is, normally around this time, rookies and young players are actually improving around this time. Something to give you hope going into next year.

Last year it was Coby down the stretch.
Wendell was playing well before he got injured.
And we all know of Lauri's heroics in his rookie year.

Its very discouraging having Pat move backwards down the stretch.

Well Bears fans felt like this in the offseason and got sometihng to feel good about again. I hope it happens for us too.

Lauri means absolutely nothing. Let him go. The Bulls should do whatever they can to resign Theis. Since they already have him on the team don’t they have a better chance to resign him than another team? Can’t they offer him a better contract?

Also the Bulls don’t have their pick if it is not in the top 4. I could care less about another low level lottery pick. 4 straight years of that is way too long.

I don’t think so,Theis is an unrestricted free agent. The only advantage could be that now he knows what it’s like in Chicago and on the Bulls. If he likes it here then he will maybe stay if he has to choose between teams with the same offer.

We don’t know what Theis is thinking though and we don’t know what kind of deal the bulls will offer him either. KC I believe has reported that they do like him and would want to bring him back but we ll see in the off-season. I’m sure more teams will target him as well and could make it complicated.

On Lauri he’s probably gone but losing him for nothing would suck. Would be nice if they can somehow do a sign and trade. If that don’t work then is the one year qualifying offer even an option at this point? Like Mirotic, sign for a year and use him as a trade later on.

Lauri’s value can’t be that high so maybe the Bulls can resign him on a value contract.

[CobyWhite0]

I have had my share of criticizing Zach but I never said that. What I have said is that he doesn't make anyone around him better and I stand by that. He doesn't make much of a difference and doesn't really move the needle and that is one of this team's problems. I think Vuc suffers from the same issue. I didn't know it and was very pro-trade but I'm not sure if a team with both Zach and Vuc as it's two all star's is ever going to be a team where the sum is greater than it's parts.

I'm seriously worried about the construct of this team right now going into the off season and likely not having a draft pick this year. Our two best players and all stars both are defensive liabilities neither of them seem to have the leadership qualities that this team really needs. I'm willing to give it a chance... at least more of a chance than we have seen to this point which hasn't been much. I just think what this team needs is a fiery two way player who inspires his teammates and makes everyone around him better. Like a J Randle does in NYC or Jimmy does for all his teams. Like Chris Paul is doing in PHX right now.

I +1'd your post, but I have to ask - what, exactly, do you think a player has to do in order to "make anyone around him better"?

There are just certain players who elevate their team and it is obvious. One important trait is having a high floor IQ and making the right play and the right reads every time. Another is inspiring teammates and making everyone want to play for each other. It's one of those things that is hard to put your finger on but you know it when you see it.

I would also add "making accurate passes that set your teammates up for easy shots", and "knows when and where to help on defense"

[WindyCityBorn]

I +1'd your post, but I have to ask - what, exactly, do you think a player has to do in order to "make anyone around him better"?

I’m not sure. He mentioned Randle as an example, but he looks like a PF version of Zach on offense. Takes lots of shots that would be considered “bad” but he is making them. He doesn’t really rack up assists so he isn’t making them better that way. He shoots significantly worse than Zach, has a similar ast/to ratio, doesn’t get to the free throw line a ton. Apparently he is a strong defender, but it’s not like he is anchoring a defense like Gobert. He has a better coach and better roster around him.

Randle DOES indeed rack up assists. He's averaging 6 assists per game. I think he has 8 triple doubles this season and has a ton of games where he is one or two assists short. The Knicks offense runs through him and he is the catalyst and lead playmaker... as a PF. He also averages over 24 PPG and over 10 RPG. He's also shooting .420 from 3 pt (which is BETTER than Zach) on over 5 attempts per game. He's really having an MVP type season. But, where he really makes a difference is on DEFENSE. He is a force. He is relentless. That team just feeds off of him. He ELEVATES that team in a huge way. oh, and he does get to the line over 6 times per game and he makes them at over 80%.

He is shooting 47 percent from 2 which is WAY worse than Zach only slightly better from 3. 6 assists to 5...wow. Both average around 3.5 TOs so not efficient at running offense. He gets to the line slightly more and shoots 5 percent worse there. Defense is really the where difference is and I think Thibs plays a huge part in that. Randle is damn good don’t get me wrong, but not on some other plan Zach. I would say Zach was better pre all-star weekend, but Randle and his team have been much better post all-star break. If Zach was on the Knicks he would probably 1a/1b as far as scoring options.

[CobyWhite0]

I think the most frustrating part about all of this, is in the offseason the nightmare will probably continue when we dont have our pick and we have Lauri and Theis go for nothing.

And honestly the frustrating part is, normally around this time, rookies and young players are actually improving around this time. Something to give you hope going into next year.

Last year it was Coby down the stretch.
Wendell was playing well before he got injured.
And we all know of Lauri's heroics in his rookie year.

Its very discouraging having Pat move backwards down the stretch.

Well Bears fans felt like this in the offseason and got sometihng to feel good about again. I hope it happens for us too.

Lauri means absolutely nothing. Let him go. The Bulls should do whatever they can to resign Theis. Since they already have him on the team don’t they have a better chance to resign him than another team? Can’t they offer him a better contract?

Also the Bulls don’t have their pick if it is not in the top 4. I could care less about another low level lottery pick. 4 straight years of that is way too long.

Great post.

I don't understand the "letting Lauri and Theis go for nothing". Each and every time a team signs a free agent, it obviously 100% means that his previous team "let him go for nothing".

It happens every summer with every team, for a myriad of reasons. But generally it's because their team doesn't think they are worth re-signing. Because they think they can get a better player for less money.

The one and only way Theis walks is if another team thinks he is worth more money than the Bulls think he is worth.

The one and only way Lauri walks is if another team signs him to an offer sheet that pays more than the Bulls think he is worth.

It's the exact same "story" for 29 teams each and every summer.

[CobyWhite0]

Lauri means absolutely nothing. Let him go. The Bulls should do whatever they can to resign Theis. Since they already have him on the team don’t they have a better chance to resign him than another team? Can’t they offer him a better contract?

Also the Bulls don’t have their pick if it is not in the top 4. I could care less about another low level lottery pick. 4 straight years of that is way too long.

I don’t think so,Theis is an unrestricted free agent. The only advantage could be that now he knows what it’s like in Chicago and on the Bulls. If he likes it here then he will maybe stay if he has to choose between teams with the same offer.

We don’t know what Theis is thinking though and we don’t know what kind of deal the bulls will offer him either. KC I believe has reported that they do like him and would want to bring him back but we ll see in the off-season. I’m sure more teams will target him as well and could make it complicated.

On Lauri he’s probably gone but losing him for nothing would suck. Would be nice if they can somehow do a sign and trade. If that don’t work then is the one year qualifying offer even an option at this point? Like Mirotic, sign for a year and use him as a trade later on.

Lauri’s value can’t be that high so maybe the Bulls can resign him on a value contract.

Again, it is absolutely, positively 100% impossible for the Bulls to "lose Lauri for nothing" this summer, unless they choose to do so.

Restricted Free Agency, it's a very, very simple concept to understand. But people have every right to ignore that simple fact if they choose to do so.

[johnnyvann840]

I’m not sure. He mentioned Randle as an example, but he looks like a PF version of Zach on offense. Takes lots of shots that would be considered “bad” but he is making them. He doesn’t really rack up assists so he isn’t making them better that way. He shoots significantly worse than Zach, has a similar ast/to ratio, doesn’t get to the free throw line a ton. Apparently he is a strong defender, but it’s not like he is anchoring a defense like Gobert. He has a better coach and better roster around him.

Randle DOES indeed rack up assists. He's averaging 6 assists per game. I think he has 8 triple doubles this season and has a ton of games where he is one or two assists short. The Knicks offense runs through him and he is the catalyst and lead playmaker... as a PF. He also averages over 24 PPG and over 10 RPG. He's also shooting .420 from 3 pt (which is BETTER than Zach) on over 5 attempts per game. He's really having an MVP type season. But, where he really makes a difference is on DEFENSE. He is a force. He is relentless. That team just feeds off of him. He ELEVATES that team in a huge way. oh, and he does get to the line over 6 times per game and he makes them at over 80%.

He is shooting 47 percent from 2 which is WAY worse than Zach only slightly better from 3. 6 assists to 5...wow. Both average around 3.5 TOs so not efficient at running offense. He gets to the line slightly more and shoots 5 percent worse there. Defense is really the where difference is and I think Thibs plays a huge part in that. Randle is damn good don’t get me wrong, but not on some other plan Zach. I would say Zach was better pre all-star weekend, but Randle and his team have been much better post all-star break. If Zach was on the Knicks he would probably 1a/1b as far as scoring options.

Bro.. He's a power forward. There aren't many PF's in the NBA who average over 6 assists per game. He also gets twice as many rebounds as Zach... but it's silly to compare a BIG and a guard when it comes to rebounds... Just like it's silly to compare a big and a guard on assists and facilitating. That's what makes Randle so valuable is that he is a big who can do guard things. He handles the ball well.... MOST importantly, he's a really good two way player. You're trying to compare a BIG to a guard on guard skills. It would be like if Lavine somehow got more rebounds than Randle and I said... "big deal Zach gets 11 rebounds per game and Randle gets 10.4". But of course in reality Randle gets 10.4 and Zach gets 5.1. lol.. What Randle is doing is amazing. He can also guard the perimeter well and rim protect. He knows where to be. He plays SMART. In short, he is much much more valuable than Lavine is to his team. Period.

[Jeffster81]

I'm just tired of Chicago continue to be little b **ches to all teams Wisconsin. (Bulls, Cubs, Bears, this ish needs to stop.)

[GoBlue72391]

You're not serious, are you?

I don't even know how to reply to this. I am obviously being punk'd.

You cannot possibly comment on offensive efficiency without seeing what the Offensive EFFICIENCY rating is.

It's the same, our offense has been EXACTLY as efficient since the trade as it was before the trade.

So you're saying that when measuring Offensive Efficiency, we should ignore the one and only stat that measures how efficient an offense is?

I think you were the one who mentioned how big of a factor TOs were playing in damping our offense pre trade. If that was improved we would have had a better Orating then than we do now.

100% agreed, the main thing keeping our offense down pre-trade was turnovers. No doubt about it.

I was only pointing out that our offense has been exactly as efficient post-trade as it was pre-trade, even though it was claimed that our offense is less efficient post-trade. So saying our offense is less efficient post-trade is a 100% falsehood, plain and simple.

Holy cow, man. You rely wayyy too much on individual stats to make a conclusion for you. I don't give a rat's ass what the offensive rating says, anyone with two eyes and a basic understanding of basketball can see that our offense is noticeably worse after the trade deadline. Actually, our offensive rating pre and post trade deadline is NOT "exactly the same." Pre-trade deadline it was 110.6 and post-trade deadline it's 109.9. Sure, that's not a big difference, but it's also not "exactly the same" as you've claimed multiple times. This is almost as ridiculous as you saying Theis is a better scorer than Lauri because they have the same TS% while completely ignoring the different types of shots they take and the different roles they play.

Stats are very helpful and serve a purpose, but they're not the be-all, end-all. There's more to the game than just stats. Hell, it ain't even that. In my previous discussions with you, you simply cherry picked the stats that are important to you while completely brushing off all stats I brought up in my retort. This is the same thing. You can't just pick and choose certain stats just because they support your viewpoint while discounting the eye test and all other stats that go against your view point.

If you insist on keeping it 100% all about stats, then take a look at this:

PPG pre-trade deadline: 113 on 88.9 FGA per game
PPG post-trade deadline: 106.9 on 87.4 FGA per game

FG% pre: 47.9%
FG% post: 47.7%

3FG% pre: 37.6%
3FG% post: 34.5%

FTA pre: 18.8
FTA post: 15.6

FT% pre: 80.4%
FT% post: 78.1%

APG pre: 26.1
APG post: 28.6

TOPG pre: 16
TOPG post: 14.3

Point differential pre: -0.6
Point differential post: -3.3

Offensive rating pre: 110.6
Offensive rating post: 109.9

Defensive rating pre: 111.6
Defensive rating post: 113.3

Net rating pre: -1.0
Net rating post: -3.5

TS% pre: 58.2%
TS% post: 56.7%

PACE pre: 101
Pace post: 97.2

Despite your claims, our offense was better before the trade deadline. It is less efficient now than it was before. Actually, let me rephrase that: Our team was better before the trade deadline. In almost every category. Both the stats and they eye test back that up. If you don't like that, well, I'm sure you'll find some stat to negate all the other stats.

[GoBlue72391]

This team has become a negative feedback loop. I thought the team was making strides towards being a winning team before the trade. But after the trade it seems like the team reset Thee sum of the players is lesser than the individuals.

Let's see if the culture can switch this off-season. PWill is like Lauri where he'll be a team player and is content on being in the background. Let's see if the team can organically push him next year to work towards being great.

That could be it. And I get that. He is 19. But he also willingly just is content to do nothing. He is making no imprint in the game.

Young players are usually - trigger happy. Or make alot of mistakes. Or fouls alot etc.

Pat does NONE of those things. He just makes no activity.

The fact that Aminu came in and he is active and chucking up shots just shows you how bad it is. Im just frustrated

Agreed with the bolded, but I'm not sure why anyone would be upset that Mr. Patrick Williams shows none of those negative qualities?

"Mr. Patrick Williams, can you please make more mistakes and commit more fouls" doesn't seem like something any GM would ever say.

IMO, he seems to be smart enough not to make stupid plays, and I'm happy with that.

Going out of your comfort zone and forcing the issue is a part of development. If the cost of him playing more aggressive is he makes more mistakes, well, I'm completely ok with that. Especially now that the playoffs are looking less and less likely.

[GoBlue72391]

Agreed with the bolded, but I'm not sure why anyone would be upset that Mr. Patrick Williams shows none of those negative qualities?

"Mr. Patrick Williams, can you please make more mistakes and commit more fouls" doesn't seem like something any GM would ever say.

IMO, he seems to be smart enough not to make stupid plays, and I'm happy with that.

Wait are you not seeing what people have been saying for weeks? What announcers and media have been saying about Pat, like the whole month of April? He has been extremely passive in games. Not even taking shots.

Since you big on stats, see for yourself. Im done talking about it.

Well hopefully, over the last 9 games, Mr. Patrick Williams will be more trigger-happy. Hopefully he'll make a lot of mistakes and commit a lot of fouls as well.

I know you're being sarcastic but...yeah, hopefully he does make some mistakes and commit some fouls over these last 9 games. That would mean he's playing more aggressive.

[GoBlue72391]

Also what the heck is going on with Lavine ? The guy is ready, he’s not sick, and he’s hanging around with the team so wtf can’t he play ? This is so ridiculous, has anyone missed more than 2 weeks of games in the NBA over Covid ? These “league protocols” fkd the bulls over, taking away the best player at the most critical time. Idc what you guys think of Lavine but if he was playing these games they would have more wins right now

Tin foil hat time: the NBA is assisting our covert tank by holding Zach out and will perform the Big Rig by ensuring we get a top 4 pick which will help the NBA as a whole because they want their big market teams to be relevant /s

[GoBlue72391]

Lauri means absolutely nothing. Let him go. The Bulls should do whatever they can to resign Theis. Since they already have him on the team don’t they have a better chance to resign him than another team? Can’t they offer him a better contract?

Also the Bulls don’t have their pick if it is not in the top 4. I could care less about another low level lottery pick. 4 straight years of that is way too long.

I don’t think so,Theis is an unrestricted free agent. The only advantage could be that now he knows what it’s like in Chicago and on the Bulls. If he likes it here then he will maybe stay if he has to choose between teams with the same offer.

We don’t know what Theis is thinking though and we don’t know what kind of deal the bulls will offer him either. KC I believe has reported that they do like him and would want to bring him back but we ll see in the off-season. I’m sure more teams will target him as well and could make it complicated.

On Lauri he’s probably gone but losing him for nothing would suck. Would be nice if they can somehow do a sign and trade. If that don’t work then is the one year qualifying offer even an option at this point? Like Mirotic, sign for a year and use him as a trade later on.

Lauri’s value can’t be that high so maybe the Bulls can resign him on a value contract.

Even if that turns out to be true, I think both sides are done with each other. The Bulls probably don't want Lauri back and Lauri probably doesn't want to come back.

[CobyWhite0]

Randle DOES indeed rack up assists. He's averaging 6 assists per game. I think he has 8 triple doubles this season and has a ton of games where he is one or two assists short. The Knicks offense runs through him and he is the catalyst and lead playmaker... as a PF. He also averages over 24 PPG and over 10 RPG. He's also shooting .420 from 3 pt (which is BETTER than Zach) on over 5 attempts per game. He's really having an MVP type season. But, where he really makes a difference is on DEFENSE. He is a force. He is relentless. That team just feeds off of him. He ELEVATES that team in a huge way. oh, and he does get to the line over 6 times per game and he makes them at over 80%.

He is shooting 47 percent from 2 which is WAY worse than Zach only slightly better from 3. 6 assists to 5...wow. Both average around 3.5 TOs so not efficient at running offense. He gets to the line slightly more and shoots 5 percent worse there. Defense is really the where difference is and I think Thibs plays a huge part in that. Randle is damn good don’t get me wrong, but not on some other plan Zach. I would say Zach was better pre all-star weekend, but Randle and his team have been much better post all-star break. If Zach was on the Knicks he would probably 1a/1b as far as scoring options.

Bro.. He's a power forward. There aren't many PF's in the NBA who average over 6 assists per game. He also gets twice as many rebounds as Zach... but it's silly to compare a BIG and a guard when it comes to rebounds... Just like it's silly to compare a big and a guard on assists and facilitating. That's what makes Randle so valuable is that he is a big who can do guard things. He handles the ball well.... MOST importantly, he's a really good two way player. You're trying to compare a BIG to a guard on guard skills. It would be like if Lavine somehow got more rebounds than Randle and I said... "big deal Zach gets 11 rebounds per game and Randle gets 10.4". But of course in reality Randle gets 10.4 and Zach gets 5.1. lol.. What Randle is doing is amazing. He can also guard the perimeter well and rim protect. He knows where to be. He plays SMART. In short, he is much much more valuable than Lavine is to his team. Period.

Randle doesn't rim protect at all - he's averaging 0.3 blocks per game, and he's drawn 7 charges all season.

That obviously doesn't change the fact that Randle is having an amazing season. But it is fair to question whether or not this season is a fluke (for lack of a better word), considering how much of an outlier this season has been for him statistically.

Randle was a career 29.5% 3pt shooter on 1.5 att/game before this season, where he's at 42.1% on 5.3 attempts. The previous 2 seasons combined, he shot 30.8% on 3.1 attempts. Nobody could have realistically seen this season coming.

He averaged 2.8 assists vs 2.5 turnovers in his first 6 seasons, he's at 5.9 ast and 3.4 TO this season.

Whether this season is an outlier or not, I think he has to be very near the top for MIP. I also think he has a great shot at being 3rd Team All-NBA.

[SalmonsSuperfan]

did nobody even make a PG thread?

this is the lowest point of ?f=10


was right to turn it off midway thru the 3q tho

[johnnyvann840]

He is shooting 47 percent from 2 which is WAY worse than Zach only slightly better from 3. 6 assists to 5...wow. Both average around 3.5 TOs so not efficient at running offense. He gets to the line slightly more and shoots 5 percent worse there. Defense is really the where difference is and I think Thibs plays a huge part in that. Randle is damn good don’t get me wrong, but not on some other plan Zach. I would say Zach was better pre all-star weekend, but Randle and his team have been much better post all-star break. If Zach was on the Knicks he would probably 1a/1b as far as scoring options.

Bro.. He's a power forward. There aren't many PF's in the NBA who average over 6 assists per game. He also gets twice as many rebounds as Zach... but it's silly to compare a BIG and a guard when it comes to rebounds... Just like it's silly to compare a big and a guard on assists and facilitating. That's what makes Randle so valuable is that he is a big who can do guard things. He handles the ball well.... MOST importantly, he's a really good two way player. You're trying to compare a BIG to a guard on guard skills. It would be like if Lavine somehow got more rebounds than Randle and I said... "big deal Zach gets 11 rebounds per game and Randle gets 10.4". But of course in reality Randle gets 10.4 and Zach gets 5.1. lol.. What Randle is doing is amazing. He can also guard the perimeter well and rim protect. He knows where to be. He plays SMART. In short, he is much much more valuable than Lavine is to his team. Period.

Randle doesn't rim protect at all - he's averaging 0.3 blocks per game, and he's drawn 7 charges all season.

That obviously doesn't change the fact that Randle is having an amazing season. But it is fair to question whether or not this season is a fluke (for lack of a better word), considering how much of an outlier this season has been for him statistically.

Randle was a career 29.5% 3pt shooter on 1.5 att/game before this season, where he's at 42.1% on 5.3 attempts. The previous 2 seasons combined, he shot 30.8% on 3.1 attempts. Nobody could have realistically seen this season coming.

He averaged 2.8 assists vs 2.5 turnovers in his first 6 seasons, he's at 5.9 ast and 3.4 TO this season.

Whether this season is an outlier or not, I think he has to be very near the top for MIP. I also think he has a great shot at being 3rd Team All-NBA.

Just because he doesn't block a lot of shots doesn't mean he's not a rim protector. His help defense is outstanding and he cuts off the lane and doesn't allow free rim runs. Great positioning is what it takes to protect your own basket not just blocking shots. Playing sound team defense is more what it takes. Taj blocks less than a shot a game in over 20 MPG and he is a great rim protector. Noel is the only one on that team who blocks shots at a high rate. Mitchell was but he's been out more than half the season and the Knicks are still the leagues top defense.

[WindyCityBorn]

Randle DOES indeed rack up assists. He's averaging 6 assists per game. I think he has 8 triple doubles this season and has a ton of games where he is one or two assists short. The Knicks offense runs through him and he is the catalyst and lead playmaker... as a PF. He also averages over 24 PPG and over 10 RPG. He's also shooting .420 from 3 pt (which is BETTER than Zach) on over 5 attempts per game. He's really having an MVP type season. But, where he really makes a difference is on DEFENSE. He is a force. He is relentless. That team just feeds off of him. He ELEVATES that team in a huge way. oh, and he does get to the line over 6 times per game and he makes them at over 80%.

He is shooting 47 percent from 2 which is WAY worse than Zach only slightly better from 3. 6 assists to 5...wow. Both average around 3.5 TOs so not efficient at running offense. He gets to the line slightly more and shoots 5 percent worse there. Defense is really the where difference is and I think Thibs plays a huge part in that. Randle is damn good don’t get me wrong, but not on some other plan Zach. I would say Zach was better pre all-star weekend, but Randle and his team have been much better post all-star break. If Zach was on the Knicks he would probably 1a/1b as far as scoring options.

Bro.. He's a power forward. There aren't many PF's in the NBA who average over 6 assists per game. He also gets twice as many rebounds as Zach... but it's silly to compare a BIG and a guard when it comes to rebounds... Just like it's silly to compare a big and a guard on assists and facilitating. That's what makes Randle so valuable is that he is a big who can do guard things. He handles the ball well.... MOST importantly, he's a really good two way player. You're trying to compare a BIG to a guard on guard skills. It would be like if Lavine somehow got more rebounds than Randle and I said... "big deal Zach gets 11 rebounds per game and Randle gets 10.4". But of course in reality Randle gets 10.4 and Zach gets 5.1. lol.. What Randle is doing is amazing. He can also guard the perimeter well and rim protect. He knows where to be. He plays SMART. In short, he is much much more valuable than Lavine is to his team. Period.

I guess we will see in the long run. Swap Randle to the Bulls in place of LaVine and I don’t think it changes much for us record wise. Like I said on offense he plays a lot like LaVine. Taking shots you would be pulling your hair about if they didn’t go in, turns it over about the same MUCH less efficient. Biggest upgrade for the Knicks was coaching. Also if you ask the Knicks board(and I read it a lot) he would be their first choice for realistically acquirable SGs. So they obviously think he would fit in just fine with his low IQ.

Zach averages 27/5/5 on 50/40/85 shooting. If the name LaVine wasn’t attached to those numbers you would have a different opinion and you will never convince me otherwise otherwise.

[WindyCityBorn]

He is shooting 47 percent from 2 which is WAY worse than Zach only slightly better from 3. 6 assists to 5...wow. Both average around 3.5 TOs so not efficient at running offense. He gets to the line slightly more and shoots 5 percent worse there. Defense is really the where difference is and I think Thibs plays a huge part in that. Randle is damn good don’t get me wrong, but not on some other plan Zach. I would say Zach was better pre all-star weekend, but Randle and his team have been much better post all-star break. If Zach was on the Knicks he would probably 1a/1b as far as scoring options.

Bro.. He's a power forward. There aren't many PF's in the NBA who average over 6 assists per game. He also gets twice as many rebounds as Zach... but it's silly to compare a BIG and a guard when it comes to rebounds... Just like it's silly to compare a big and a guard on assists and facilitating. That's what makes Randle so valuable is that he is a big who can do guard things. He handles the ball well.... MOST importantly, he's a really good two way player. You're trying to compare a BIG to a guard on guard skills. It would be like if Lavine somehow got more rebounds than Randle and I said... "big deal Zach gets 11 rebounds per game and Randle gets 10.4". But of course in reality Randle gets 10.4 and Zach gets 5.1. lol.. What Randle is doing is amazing. He can also guard the perimeter well and rim protect. He knows where to be. He plays SMART. In short, he is much much more valuable than Lavine is to his team. Period.

Randle doesn't rim protect at all - he's averaging 0.3 blocks per game, and he's drawn 7 charges all season.

That obviously doesn't change the fact that Randle is having an amazing season. But it is fair to question whether or not this season is a fluke (for lack of a better word), considering how much of an outlier this season has been for him statistically.

Randle was a career 29.5% 3pt shooter on 1.5 att/game before this season, where he's at 42.1% on 5.3 attempts. The previous 2 seasons combined, he shot 30.8% on 3.1 attempts. Nobody could have realistically seen this season coming.

He averaged 2.8 assists vs 2.5 turnovers in his first 6 seasons, he's at 5.9 ast and 3.4 TO this season.

Whether this season is an outlier or not, I think he has to be very near the top for MIP. I also think he has a great shot at being 3rd Team All-NBA.

I agree with all-this. We will see if he can continue and improve on this season. Same for Zach. There is no denying Randle has a better coaching staff and roster around him, but apparently he is just making a bunch of bums better Lebron style. Maybe Randle is the next Lebron?