Race for Ping Pong Balls

[shadrock]

Would be the most Magic thing ever to get a few spirit lifting wins from this bunch of nobodies and then miss on a franchise changing talent by 1 pick. We simply do not have the stomach to do a proper tank job. This has been the reason we are still where we are 10 years on from Dwight. Meanwhile just you wait and see teams like OKC steal someone like Cunningham right from us because they understand the importance of swallowing your ego and going all in on the tank at all costs.

This franchise is pathetic.

[basketballRob]

Would be the most Magic thing ever to get a few spirit lifting wins from this bunch of nobodies and then miss on a franchise changing talent by 1 pick. We simply do not have the stomach to do a proper tank job. This has been the reason we are still where we are 10 years on from Dwight. Meanwhile just you wait and see teams like OKC steal someone like Cunningham right from us because they understand the importance of swallowing your ego and going all in on the tank at all costs.

This franchise is pathetic.

Then have the guys winning won't even be here next season.

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[Skybox]

Best possible scenario...we win out, Anthony, Hampton, Bamba, Wagner, Okeke look like All-Stars and we win the lottery anyway.


Plus, CHI hands us #5

Well obviously that would be great! We all want us to be a contender. But there’s no shame in admitting that the odds of us getting there are better with a high draft pick (at least top 5) than with the group you pointed out.

I still have faith in Fultz (yeah I know I’m in the minority here) an JI. Add a top 5 pick to that and some of the young guys and we have a solid foundation for the next few years.

Chicago is either ending up top 4 or we get their pick at 7-10 ish..

Yes. My scenario includes the high draft pick. I’m thinking top 3 though

[jonbob17]

This feels like 2018 all over again. Winning meaningless games down the stretch. If we pick 7 or 8 it's our own fault. Odds will have had nothing to do with it. Now we may still get lucky, but the floor is of our own making.

[MagicHolland]

Best possible scenario...we win out, Anthony, Hampton, Bamba, Wagner, Okeke look like All-Stars and we win the lottery anyway.


Plus, CHI hands us #5

Well obviously that would be great! We all want us to be a contender. But there’s no shame in admitting that the odds of us getting there are better with a high draft pick (at least top 5) than with the group you pointed out.

I still have faith in Fultz (yeah I know I’m in the minority here) an JI. Add a top 5 pick to that and some of the young guys and we have a solid foundation for the next few years.

Chicago is either ending up top 4 or we get their pick at 7-10 ish..

Yes. My scenario includes the high draft pick. I’m thinking top 3 though

A crap I missed that that’s what tanking does to your mind

In that case, I agree

[Skin]

Basketball Gods, please forgive this team for their pure stupidity.

[KillMonger]

man i just feel like the teams that are tanking seriously will get rewarded while we are sort of tanking but never fully commits to it like other teams...it feels like we have this holier than thou attitude about it while other teams don't care about that so much so that they'll eat the fines no problem.....just brazen with their tank....it just sucks because this is probably the closest we'll be to the bottom because rest assured next year we won't be tanking, we'll probably be around the play-in seeds....late lottery to mid first round

[Knightro]

Well I guess we’re going to need some lottery luck..

They need lottery luck even if they lose out and finish with the 2nd worst record.

[Knightro]

This feels like 2018 all over again. Winning meaningless games down the stretch. If we pick 7 or 8 it's our own fault. Odds will have had nothing to do with it. Now we may still get lucky, but the floor is of our own making.

Not even close to the same thing IMO.

The Magic won games in 2018 with Augustin, Vucevic, Gordon, Biyombo all playing significant minutes.

The won last night on the backs of two 20 year old rookies and a guy they signed off the street days ago.

[GelbeWand09]

This feels like 2018 all over again. Winning meaningless games down the stretch. If we pick 7 or 8 it's our own fault. Odds will have had nothing to do with it. Now we may still get lucky, but the floor is of our own making.

Not even close to the same thing IMO.

The Magic won games in 2018 with Augustin, Vucevic, Gordon, Biyombo all playing significant minutes.

The won last night on the backs of two 20 year old rookies and a guy they signed off the street days ago.

1st Its the only win without big contribution of vets since the trade. Nobody would be mad if that was our 1st or 2nd win since the trade. Or when all those wins were on the back of the rooks but they were on the back of vets til yesterday.

2nd That guy ''they signed off the streets'', was unsurprisingly better than Hall or Franks. Why sign a guy you know can get hot in a few games instead of keeping the scrubs you know wont go off at all, 10-12 games before the season ends?
One of the biggest reason we lost after the trade was our inability to hit 3's. Why add a guy who can exactly do this, when you try to lose?

We can keep pretending they did all they can & that ''we cant lose all''. But reality is, it was easy to lose 2-3 more games. We won vs. Chicago on the back of vets, shut all vets down & lost all games (mostly blowouts) til we brought back Ennis & signed Wagner.
With the new odds we still got good chances but we definitely haven't done everything to optimize our chances.

[T-Rob]

This feels like 2018 all over again. Winning meaningless games down the stretch. If we pick 7 or 8 it's our own fault. Odds will have had nothing to do with it. Now we may still get lucky, but the floor is of our own making.

Not even close to the same thing IMO.

The Magic won games in 2018 with Augustin, Vucevic, Gordon, Biyombo all playing significant minutes.

The won last night on the backs of two 20 year old rookies and a guy they signed off the street days ago.

I'm in the minority when it comes to tanking. I'm more for developing the young players you already have. Tanking rarely ever works, people most recently will point to OKC(Durant, Westbrook, Harden) and Philly(Joel, simmons) as teams who have tanked but what championships did they win? Look at Minny.. they have clearly tanked and they're once again awful and they are probably close to losing one of their young pieces in Towns so they'll most likely be back to the drawing board. The Spurs back in the late 90's is probably the only success story for tanking. Small markets tank and get these great young players only to see them leave after their rookie deals or demand a trade shortly after. OKC lost everyone they tanked for with nothing to show, I believe Philly isn't far behind. Trying to make your small market team a place where free agents want to go I think is more important than tanking for someone you hope doesn't bust. All of this is also besides the fact that after the NBA reformed the lottery percentages it is kind of a mixed bag on getting a top 3 pick. Since reform the worst team has never won the first overall pick. 2019 the 7th and 8th best odds got the first and second picks. 2020 stayed more true to actual percentages with the 2nd and 3rd worst records landing the top two picks but the 3rd was awarded to the 8th. I understand why people would prefer the mathematical percentages but history just hasn't matched up since the draft reform. Based on history maybe we should be trying to hit that 8th spot.
Getting Cade would be great and could possibly change the trajectory of this team, however, I just don't think getting him at the expense of Chuma, WCJ, Bamba, Cole, and RJ is the best way to rebuild. I'd rather let these young guys play hard and also have the possibility of getting Cade instead of sacrificing their experience.

[GelbeWand09]

This feels like 2018 all over again. Winning meaningless games down the stretch. If we pick 7 or 8 it's our own fault. Odds will have had nothing to do with it. Now we may still get lucky, but the floor is of our own making.

Not even close to the same thing IMO.

The Magic won games in 2018 with Augustin, Vucevic, Gordon, Biyombo all playing significant minutes.

The won last night on the backs of two 20 year old rookies and a guy they signed off the street days ago.

I'm in the minority when it comes to tanking. I'm more for developing the young players you already have. Tanking rarely ever works, people most recently will point to OKC(Durant, Westbrook, Harden) and Philly(Joel, simmons) as teams who have tanked but what championships did they win? Look at Minny.. they have clearly tanked and they're once again awful and they are probably close to losing one of their young pieces in Towns so they'll most likely be back to the drawing board. The Spurs back in the late 90's is probably the only success story for tanking. Small markets tank and get these great young players only to see them leave after their rookie deals or demand a trade shortly after. OKC lost everyone they tanked for with nothing to show, I believe Philly isn't far behind. Trying to make your small market team a place where free agents want to go I think is more important than tanking for someone you hope doesn't bust. All of this is also besides the fact that after the NBA reformed the lottery percentages it is kind of a mixed bag on getting a top 3 pick. Since reform the worst team has never won the first overall pick. 2019 the 7th and 8th best odds got the first and second picks. 2020 stayed more true to actual percentages with the 2nd and 3rd worst records landing the top two picks but the 3rd was awarded to the 8th. I understand why people would prefer the mathematical percentages but history just hasn't matched up since the draft reform. Based on history maybe we should be trying to hit that 8th spot.
Getting Cade would be great and could possibly change the trajectory of this team, however, I just don't think getting him at the expense of Chuma, WCJ, Bamba, Cole, and RJ is the best way to rebuild. I'd rather let these young guys play hard and also have the possibility of getting Cade instead of sacrificing their experience.

There is a lot right in your post but...

1st we are tanking, we just play some scrub vets more than our competition

2nd We have 10-9 games left. Whats the difference of losing those games instead of winning 3 of them. You think any of our young guys gonna have a worse career because we won only 2 instead 5 games over the last 20-30?

3rd You forget that you dont only need high picks for your own team but trading for stars you need high picks or young studs too. In the last 4-5 years alone Toronto, Lakers & Cleveland won chips because they traded high picks or players they drafted.

[OrlandoSaban]

We have been tanking for 10 years and all of the sudden, Magic fans feel that this is our year to finally get that #1 draft pick. his is the year!!! Never mind the other 9 years where we didn't.

[jonbob17]

This feels like 2018 all over again. Winning meaningless games down the stretch. If we pick 7 or 8 it's our own fault. Odds will have had nothing to do with it. Now we may still get lucky, but the floor is of our own making.

Not even close to the same thing IMO.

The Magic won games in 2018 with Augustin, Vucevic, Gordon, Biyombo all playing significant minutes.

The won last night on the backs of two 20 year old rookies and a guy they signed off the street days ago.

I guess it will be close to the same thing if the results end up being similar. If one of these teams we end up finishing ahead of in the standings, ends up ahead of us in the draft order and bumps us out of our preferred range, something that clearly happened in '18. Other teams are even resting their young guys consistently, a move i mostly disagree with, but the results have been on their side.

The moves the FO made around the deadline were the right moves, but we should have been resting guys earlier and often. That guy they signed off the street is a questionable move, and I like Wagner, just not adding to our win total this season.

When we pulled the trigger at the deadline it was to enter the race to the bottom, a race we were looking really good at finishing 2nd at until we recently started falling behind.

[zaymon]

I think its obvious now our front office is prioritizing development over bad record. Its not like they dont want to lose, they just want to develop our young talent more. We have shut down veterans who have longer contracts (MCW, Ross), while we show respect to Ennis who has expiring deal. We like to play our young players with veterans with good fundamentals who can teach it in game ( Harris, Ennis).
Its hard to say which aproach is better. Right now its almost impossible for us to fall outside top 6 which has roughly 52%->48->40 % chance to go top4. The difference for top1 is even more marginal. Cade Cunningham is not a sure thing and after him there is even bigger drop off. You could argue resigning Otto Porter for his prime will have bigger difference for team than choosing between Green, Mobley or even Giddey. I dont think those prospects are even half as good as Porter was when drafted.
We go with safer aproach, which all in all could have higher ceiling. Its better to have Cade with average team than Cade with bad team.

[Knightro]

I guess it will be close to the same thing if the results end up being similar. If one of these teams we end up finishing ahead of in the standings, ends up ahead of us in the draft order and bumps us out of our preferred range, something that clearly happened in '18. Other teams are even resting their young guys consistently, a move i mostly disagree with, but the results have been on their side.

The moves the FO made around the deadline were the right moves, but we should have been resting guys earlier and often. That guy they signed off the street is a questionable move, and I like Wagner, just not adding to our win total this season.

When we pulled the trigger at the deadline it was to enter the race to the bottom, a race we were looking really good at finishing 2nd at until we recently started falling behind.

The Magic are 3-13 in their last 16 games. The only team worse in that same stretch has been Oklahoma City.

Thunder 1-15
Rockets 3-13
Cavaliers 4-12
Pistons 5-11
Wolves 8-8

[jonbob17]

The Magic are 3-13 in their last 16 games. The only team worse in that same stretch has been Oklahoma City.

Thunder 1-15
Rockets 3-13
Cavaliers 4-12
Pistons 5-11
Wolves 8-8

Sure, but we are also 2-1 in our last three games after getting the 2nd worst record to ourselves. There is a huge difference between 2nd worst record and 6th worst, which we now are about a win away from

[thelead]

I guess it will be close to the same thing if the results end up being similar. If one of these teams we end up finishing ahead of in the standings, ends up ahead of us in the draft order and bumps us out of our preferred range, something that clearly happened in '18. Other teams are even resting their young guys consistently, a move i mostly disagree with, but the results have been on their side.

The moves the FO made around the deadline were the right moves, but we should have been resting guys earlier and often. That guy they signed off the street is a questionable move, and I like Wagner, just not adding to our win total this season.

When we pulled the trigger at the deadline it was to enter the race to the bottom, a race we were looking really good at finishing 2nd at until we recently started falling behind.

The Magic are 3-13 in their last 16 games. The only team worse in that same stretch has been Oklahoma City.

Thunder 1-15
Rockets 3-13
Cavaliers 4-12
Pistons 5-11
Wolves 8-8

Throw whatever stats you want to throw out but we were sitting with the second worst record with 9 games to go and we controlled our own floor at the 6th pick. When do we start sitting players for 'rest' like the other teams (minus the Wolves) have done?

[Knightro]

Throw whatever stats you want to throw out but we were sitting with the second worst record with 9 games to go and we controlled our own floor at the 6th pick. When do we start sitting players for 'rest' like the other teams (minus the Wolves) have done?

The Magic have 9 guys healthy right now. 8 players are flat out not healthy enough to play. Who else can they rest exactly?

They also still control their own destiny for the 2nd worst record and 6th pick floor.

Lose in Detroit and magically (no pun intended) all is right in the tanking world again.

[thelead]

Throw whatever stats you want to throw out but we were sitting with the second worst record with 9 games to go and we controlled our own floor at the 6th pick. When do we start sitting players for 'rest' like the other teams (minus the Wolves) have done?

The Magic have 9 guys healthy right now. 8 players are flat out not healthy enough to play. Who else can they rest exactly?

They also still control their own destiny for the 2nd worst record and 6th pick floor.

Lose in Detroit and magically (no pun intended) all is right in the tanking world again.

The Detroit game will help but even with that, at if we both lose out after that, we're tied and introduced the need for more luck. Nevertheless, that game could have a HUGE impact on the future of this franchise.

And as far as what else the could do? Play guys like Hall (who they cut today) 30+ mpg like how OKC has been doing with a bunch of undrafted players logging significant minutes while Horford and SGA have been out for an eternity. But that's fine. This FO also thought that Vuc, Evan, and AG was the core to build around until AG asked to be traded.