Trade Deadline Retrospective: Any Surprises?

[bondom34]

It's been a bit over a month since the deadline, so thought maybe a look back would be an interesting topic with about 10 games left in the season for the forum's discussion. Not necessarily a crow eating thread or anything, just a topic to note any movers or transactions that had good or bad results you didn't expect so much. Could be big, could be small, anything you think fits! If needed, a list of trades:

https://www.nba.com/news/2020-21-nba-trade-tracker

For me:

1. I think as of now the Clippers got a lot better deal than I'd thought. The 2nds still seem a bit much, but given Williams's playoff limitations, they've gotten good play from Rondo.

2. Under "minor moves that might have helped a lot more than expected" Daniel Gafford has seemed to be really helpful for the Wizards defense and their push into the play in.

3. Under slightly less surprising but still a solid pickup, Torrey Craig has been helpful for the Suns.

4. A bit disappointed in the Miami Bjelica move, his numbers are down and he hasn't played much. Haven't seen much of the Heat, but hoped for more.

5. Another slight downer was Fournier to Boston. They didn't pay much, and I like it still for them fine but he hasn't been terribly great shooting wise I don't believe.

[Resistance]

The Chicago trade for Vucevic was a head scratcher at the time. Now it looks even worse.

It wasn't a trade, but the league has been adjusting to Drummond with LAL.

[penbeast0]

Am truly enjoying Gafford in Washington; didn't think much when the deal was made but he's become one of my favorite players though it's really Westbrook that has led the resurgence with his energy and improved play (Beal has been consistently this good all year).

[hugepatsfan]

Fournier trade hasn't worked out, but to be fair you can't understate the COVID impact. He came to BOS, had a very tough first game, was alright in game 2 then great in games 3 and 4. Then he got COVID (actually got it himself) so he missed like 2 weeks and has struggled coming back since. COVID hits everyone differently so I don't feel like it's fair to really judge the trade yet or write Fournier off. But yeah, objectively, it hasn't yielded results that's for sure.

[Scoot McGroot]

I’m sure his shooting will bounce back in time, and if it happens by the playoffs, all will be fine, but that deadline, for not giving up much value, was still abjectly terrible for the Celtics so far. They burned the huge TPE on Fournier, and then moved Theis in a 3 way deal and somehow walked away with maybe the worst return of the 3 teams, having already waived Wagner. As penbeast0 pointed out, Gafford has been good for them, and he would’ve been a much better fit in Boston than was Wagner.

Again, if Fournier’s shooting catches up in the playoffs, all will be forgotten, but so far, not great.

[ChettheJet]

I was shocked that the new Bulls management would give up 2 picks when they claimed to be patient building the roster. There's no way to judge if it was a good or bad trade since Vucevic has only played 2 games with Lavine who went out with COVID protocols. You trade for a second all star and one goes out, it's not the same team you thought you were getting.

The other parts of the deadline look like they could really pay off. If the Bulls can resign Theis he's just the kind of big man they have lacked. Carter, Markkanen, Gafford, even Porter jr were just plain soft and lacked toughness. They don't intimidate anybody, wouldn't put a body anybody, it's as though they were afraid to foul anybody and upset them. Theis is more than willing to mix it up, crash the boards and do the dirty work. The same toughness and willingness to play hard defense applies to Troy Brown jr. The Bulls traded Kris Dunn who was the tough on ball defender but he had no confidencein his jump shot, no range to the arc and he's still injured in ATL. Brown in the few games he played was already counted on by Donovan to play that defense but he was also willing to shoot the open shot or drive to the basket. He figures to be a key bench piece next year.

[cl2117]

It's not a deadline deal, but I like what D-Rose is doing for NYK. Great pickup for Thibs.

Similarly Kevin Porter Jr. drops 50 on the Bucks after being given away following his locker drama. Love that kind of flyer for a team in Houston's position and it might just make up for them bumbling the Oladipo/Levert part of the Harden trade.

Speaking of Miami it feels like they've almost gone backwards with Olynyk on fire in Houston, Bjelica giving them nothing and Dipo just finding his feet. Cost was super low for everything they brought in, but they might have actually sent out what they needed accidentally.

I'm still surprised Ainge was willing to break up the TPE for a guy on an expiring deal. It just felt like such a non-starter for me. He's making noises about re-signing him, which would change my view on it, but still seems painfully short sighted. Reserving judgement on Fournier specifically until he gets more run. Been Jekyll and Hyde, but hard to complain given his bout of COVID.

I thought losing Theis was going to be a bigger deal, but Timelord has been a revelation. I wonder how much he gets in the off-season still now that he's overshadowed by Vuc. He's putting up the same kind of numbers as in Boston when he seemed like he could be in for a massive raise, but it looks less impressive as a backup big somehow.

Bulls' big move seems more questionable than ever given the results. If they miss out on the play-in tourney it'd be a disaster. And by osmosis that makes Orlando's side of the deal look rosier.

Aaron Gordon seemed poised to really shine as a roleplayer and it hasn't been as pretty as I thought it'd be, but he's filling the Jerami Grant role fine. Blake Griffin is putting up similar numbers in Brooklyn and that's crazy to me. Thought he'd be more like 15/8 instead of 10/5 and Blake would be more like 5/0 instead of 9/5. Orlando blowing it up looks like a great decision though. Decent haul all around and that core clearly wasn't something to build around based on how those guys are fitting into better teams.

[Buzzard]

From what I have seen, Rose has been great for the Knicks. His veteran presence looks like exactly what they needed. I can say the same for Lou Williams.

He has really become a key member of the Hawks bench; while also starting one game due to all the injuries. The Hawks are 12 and 5 in the games he has played in. Rondo was pretty much a disappointing Mr Irrelevant for most of the season.

[HartfordWhalers]

it might just make up for them bumbling the Oladipo/Levert part of the Harden trade.

Speaking of Miami it feels like they've almost gone backwards with Olynyk on fire in Houston, Bjelica giving them nothing and Dipo just finding his feet. Cost was super low for everything they brought in, but they might have actually sent out what they needed accidentally.

Maybe I'm too low on LeVert but for Houston I would definitely value the swap rights they received over LeVert:
Right to swap '22 BKN 1st with '22 Miami 1st (if Miami pick is not 1-14) >> LeVert: 19 ppg on subpar efficiency

For this season it would be moving up to 18 from 27 or so. Even if its more to 20 from 28 next year, I don't have LeVert as being a building block in a tear down like Houston did, and I think if they could have gotten a draft pick right away for him they would have, instead of Laundering LeVert through Oladipo to get the swap.

[K_chile22]

it might just make up for them bumbling the Oladipo/Levert part of the Harden trade.

Speaking of Miami it feels like they've almost gone backwards with Olynyk on fire in Houston, Bjelica giving them nothing and Dipo just finding his feet. Cost was super low for everything they brought in, but they might have actually sent out what they needed accidentally.

Maybe I'm too low on LeVert but for Houston I would definitely value the swap rights they received over LeVert:
Right to swap '22 BKN 1st with '22 Miami 1st (if Miami pick is not 1-14) >> LeVert: 19 ppg on subpar efficiency

For this season it would be moving up to 18 from 27 or so. Even if its more to 20 from 28 next year, I don't have LeVert as being a building block in a tear down like Houston did, and I think if they could have gotten a draft pick right away for him they would have, instead of Laundering LeVert through Oladipo to get the swap.

Yeah, I think most reasonable people have the fumble as not just flipping Levert right away, he would just be in KPJs way if he were here. I think they probably could've done a little better, maybe a mid twenties first for Levert and House or something, but they wanted to make a risky move and it didn't work out, which happens, think they still made out alright. Especially if they keep Olynyk to help during the rebuild as a spacing bug who really knows how to play. The rockets love him and re-signing him, even if it's above market value, would be good for them.


If you zoom in though I think just about everyone would have to eat the smallest crow on the oladipo to Miami trade. Maybe Vic goes on a huge run but thus far Olynyk has been incredible and the rockets got a pretty good swap option. At the time I thought the deal was absolutely horrendous as a long time olynyk hater

[HartfordWhalers]

it might just make up for them bumbling the Oladipo/Levert part of the Harden trade.

Speaking of Miami it feels like they've almost gone backwards with Olynyk on fire in Houston, Bjelica giving them nothing and Dipo just finding his feet. Cost was super low for everything they brought in, but they might have actually sent out what they needed accidentally.

Maybe I'm too low on LeVert but for Houston I would definitely value the swap rights they received over LeVert:
Right to swap '22 BKN 1st with '22 Miami 1st (if Miami pick is not 1-14) >> LeVert: 19 ppg on subpar efficiency

For this season it would be moving up to 18 from 27 or so. Even if its more to 20 from 28 next year, I don't have LeVert as being a building block in a tear down like Houston did, and I think if they could have gotten a draft pick right away for him they would have, instead of Laundering LeVert through Oladipo to get the swap.

Yeah, I think most reasonable people have the fumble as not just flipping Levert right away, he would just be in KPJs way if he were here. I think they probably could've done a little better, maybe a mid twenties first for Levert and House or something, but they wanted to make a risky move and it didn't work out, which happens, think they still made out alright. Especially if they keep Olynyk to help during the rebuild as a spacing bug who really knows how to play. The rockets love him and re-signing him, even if it's above market value, would be good for them.

Re-signing a spacing big to above market money hasn't done wonders for Cleveland's rebuild. If Houston follows, I will have it as an unforced error in their rebuild.

I'm just not sold that anyone was offering that for LeVert, and if the pick swap turns out like this year, the swap will actually be more valuable.

[K_chile22]

Maybe I'm too low on LeVert but for Houston I would definitely value the swap rights they received over LeVert:
Right to swap '22 BKN 1st with '22 Miami 1st (if Miami pick is not 1-14) >> LeVert: 19 ppg on subpar efficiency

For this season it would be moving up to 18 from 27 or so. Even if its more to 20 from 28 next year, I don't have LeVert as being a building block in a tear down like Houston did, and I think if they could have gotten a draft pick right away for him they would have, instead of Laundering LeVert through Oladipo to get the swap.

Yeah, I think most reasonable people have the fumble as not just flipping Levert right away, he would just be in KPJs way if he were here. I think they probably could've done a little better, maybe a mid twenties first for Levert and House or something, but they wanted to make a risky move and it didn't work out, which happens, think they still made out alright. Especially if they keep Olynyk to help during the rebuild as a spacing bug who really knows how to play. The rockets love him and re-signing him, even if it's above market value, would be good for them.

Re-signing a spacing big to above market money hasn't done wonders for Cleveland's rebuild. If Houston follows, I will have it as an unforced error in their rebuild.

I'm just not sold that anyone was offering that for LeVert, and if the pick swap turns out like this year, the swap will actually be more valuable.

I said above Olynyks market not $30+M lol if they give him like 3/$66m with some non guarantees at the end there I'll be happy
They're probably going to want to stay over the cap anyways because they won't have much space

[meekrab]

Am truly enjoying Gafford in Washington; didn't think much when the deal was made but he's become one of my favorite players though it's really Westbrook that has led the resurgence with his energy and improved play (Beal has been consistently this good all year).

As a Bulls fan Gafford was the only player we traded away that I had any attachment to; very happy he's found a role in Washington for you guys.

[Texas Chuck]

If you zoom in though I think just about everyone would have to eat the smallest crow on the oladipo to Miami trade. Maybe Vic goes on a huge run but thus far Olynyk has been incredible and the rockets got a pretty good swap option. At the time I thought the deal was absolutely horrendous as a long time olynyk hater

I definitely have crow to eat, but this one isn't on my menu. Felt like too many eggs were being put in the LMA basket as part of that deal and sure enough he didn't choose them and as it turns out it wouldn't have mattered if he had.

I didn't totally pan the trade for Miami because I felt there was value in finding out now for sure that you don't want to pay him this off-season, but I did feel they would be worse overall this year.

Where I was wrong with Miami was in thinking Bjelica was going to ease the loss of Olynyk more. He seems to have fallen off a cliff this season.

[bondom34]

If you zoom in though I think just about everyone would have to eat the smallest crow on the oladipo to Miami trade. Maybe Vic goes on a huge run but thus far Olynyk has been incredible and the rockets got a pretty good swap option. At the time I thought the deal was absolutely horrendous as a long time olynyk hater

I definitely have crow to eat, but this one isn't on my menu. Felt like too many eggs were being put in the LMA basket as part of that deal and sure enough he didn't choose them and as it turns out it wouldn't have mattered if he had.

I didn't totally pan the trade for Miami because I felt there was value in finding out now for sure that you don't want to pay him this off-season, but I did feel they would be worse overall this year.

Where I was wrong with Miami was in thinking Bjelica was going to ease the loss of Olynyk more. He seems to have fallen off a cliff this season.

Yep, this was my general feeling as their worst case. They at least got a try out of sorts with Oladipo instead of tossing a bunch of money at him without knowing. Did think Bjelica would be better, that was in the OP. Ultimately the price was so low for what they got it had no real downside.

[Dn4sty]

This is minor but I assumed OKC would have moved muscala. They didn’t and now he’s not playing to give young guys a shot

[daoneandonly]

Daniel Gafford has been huge in the Wizards resurgence. The guy just exudes energy and going for it. Chicago deserves an F across the board for their trade deadline, giving up Gafford (not using him properly) and trading picks and space for the once in his lifetime winning record Vuc? Just aa terrible idea.

[A BETTER DJ]

IMO the Magic came out on top trading away 3 guys that weren't taking us anywhere and getting some surprise performers and picks. Next season should be interesting.

[vxmike]

I was shocked that the new Bulls management would give up 2 picks when they claimed to be patient building the roster. There's no way to judge if it was a good or bad trade since Vucevic has only played 2 games with Lavine who went out with COVID protocols. You trade for a second all star and one goes out, it's not the same team you thought you were getting.

The other parts of the deadline look like they could really pay off. If the Bulls can resign Theis he's just the kind of big man they have lacked. Carter, Markkanen, Gafford, even Porter jr were just plain soft and lacked toughness. They don't intimidate anybody, wouldn't put a body anybody, it's as though they were afraid to foul anybody and upset them. Theis is more than willing to mix it up, crash the boards and do the dirty work. The same toughness and willingness to play hard defense applies to Troy Brown jr. The Bulls traded Kris Dunn who was the tough on ball defender but he had no confidencein his jump shot, no range to the arc and he's still injured in ATL. Brown in the few games he played was already counted on by Donovan to play that defense but he was also willing to shoot the open shot or drive to the basket. He figures to be a key bench piece next year.

The Bulls were in a tough spot. Their best player LaVine isn’t a top 20 player and none of their youth has shown any All Star potential. Despite this their cap situation isn’t even great next year. It was just a rebuild gone bad. Vucevic isn’t going to make them a top playoff team but another 7th pick (remember the Bulls can’t draft) wasn’t going to help either. The team is stuck in no mans land.

[BK_2020]

I’m sure his shooting will bounce back in time, and if it happens by the playoffs, all will be fine, but that deadline, for not giving up much value, was still abjectly terrible for the Celtics so far. They burned the huge TPE on Fournier, and then moved Theis in a 3 way deal and somehow walked away with maybe the worst return of the 3 teams, having already waived Wagner. As penbeast0 pointed out, Gafford has been good for them, and he would’ve been a much better fit in Boston than was Wagner.

Again, if Fournier’s shooting catches up in the playoffs, all will be forgotten, but so far, not great.

You'd have to be extremely biased to think that 2 distant seconds (one of them lesser of BOS or Grizz pick) for half a season and PO of Fournier is "abjectly terrible." 2 second rounders may not play a single game, especially for a team currently rostering 10 players with 5 or fewer years of experience.