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PG: Randle is different

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Re: PG: Randle is different 

Post#261 » by j4remi » Mon May 3, 2021 7:39 pm

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Another recap where I have to nitpick for complaints because everyone balled out. Randle went full blackout mode, RJ probably coulda had more if Randle wasn’t feeling it anyway, and I like IQ pushing the ball a bit further out in front of him when bigs follow him to the perimeter.
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Re: PG: Randle is different 

Post#262 » by Chanel Bomber » Mon May 3, 2021 7:40 pm

cgf wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:i remember Marc stein was saying the Knicks went and shopped around KP and nobody really wanted him for what we were asking for. seems like his value was pretty low. i think the Knicks did the best they can even if the return wasn’t what we expected. at least we won the trade though. we used our cap space on Randle and Morris who we flipped for IQ. then DSJ for Rose. i think we did well if you look at it that way.

i agree with the rest of your post though for sure.

I don't buy whatever Marc Stein is selling. He has no sources outside of Dallas.

The Knicks apparently had a deal with Sacramento that included Fox, but Sacramento weren't willing to absorb the contracts of Hardaway, Lee and Burke. So we could've gotten a lot better value, but the delusion that we were gonna sign KD/Kyrie with all that capspace (which required trading away these contracts) prevented us from getting a talent like Fox. That's my beef with the KP trade.

Otherwise I always thought trading KP for picks was a wise decision, and as far as I can remember I always thought we won the trade. It just could've been far better.

Luckily for us Julius + IQ turned out to be an even better than Fox :wink:

The Knicks would've had the capspace to sign Julius and he was their first signing so I personally don't count him as part of the KP deal.

Quickley though is for sure part of the return.

I think IQ could become a better player than KP down the line so yeah. Add in two more picks and the privilege of not having to pay KP $160 million and I think the trade is a no-brainer regardless.
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Re: PG: Randle is different 

Post#263 » by 3toheadmelo » Mon May 3, 2021 7:44 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
cgf wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:I don't buy whatever Marc Stein is selling. He has no sources outside of Dallas.

The Knicks apparently had a deal with Sacramento that included Fox, but Sacramento weren't willing to absorb the contracts of Hardaway, Lee and Burke. So we could've gotten a lot better value, but the delusion that we were gonna sign KD/Kyrie with all that capspace (which required trading away these contracts) prevented us from getting a talent like Fox. That's my beef with the KP trade.

Otherwise I always thought trading KP for picks was a wise decision, and as far as I can remember I always thought we won the trade. It just could've been far better.

Luckily for us Julius + IQ turned out to be an even better than Fox :wink:

The Knicks would've had the capspace to sign Julius and he was their first signing so I personally don't count him as part of the KP deal.

Quickley though is for sure part of the return.

I think IQ could become a better player than KP down the line so yeah. Add in two more picks and the privilege of not having to pay KP $160 million and I think the trade is a no-brainer regardless.

i don’t think the Knicks would’ve signed both Morris and Randle to play next to KP though. remember mitch has to play somewhere too. we don’t get IQ and Randle without this trade imo.
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Re: PG: Randle is different 

Post#264 » by Chanel Bomber » Mon May 3, 2021 7:53 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
cgf wrote:Luckily for us Julius + IQ turned out to be an even better than Fox :wink:

The Knicks would've had the capspace to sign Julius and he was their first signing so I personally don't count him as part of the KP deal.

Quickley though is for sure part of the return.

I think IQ could become a better player than KP down the line so yeah. Add in two more picks and the privilege of not having to pay KP $160 million and I think the trade is a no-brainer regardless.

i don’t think the Knicks would’ve signed both Morris and Randle to play next to KP though. remember mitch has to play somewhere too. we don’t get IQ and Randle without this trade imo.

Hard to say.

But Mitch was just a second round draft pick. I doubt that they expected him to be a starter.

It's all speculation of course, but I personally believe they would've signed Randle regardless to pair him with KP in the front court and started the season with Payton-Hardaway-Knox-Randle-KP or something like that. Again, pure speculation.

We for sure don't get IQ without this trade. We technically couldn't, since Morris was our last offseason signing (signed with the extra capspace). Randle is debatable imo.
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Re: PG: Randle is different 

Post#265 » by 3toheadmelo » Mon May 3, 2021 7:59 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:The Knicks would've had the capspace to sign Julius and he was their first signing so I personally don't count him as part of the KP deal.

Quickley though is for sure part of the return.

I think IQ could become a better player than KP down the line so yeah. Add in two more picks and the privilege of not having to pay KP $160 million and I think the trade is a no-brainer regardless.

i don’t think the Knicks would’ve signed both Morris and Randle to play next to KP though. remember mitch has to play somewhere too. we don’t get IQ and Randle without this trade imo.

Hard to say.

But Mitch was just a second round draft pick. I doubt that they expected him to be a starter.

It's all speculation of course, but I personally believe they would've signed Randle regardless to pair him with KP in the front court and started the season with Payton-Hardaway-Knox-Randle-KP or something like that. Again, pure speculation.

We for sure don't get IQ without this trade. We technically couldn't, since Morris was our last offseason signing (signed with the extra capspace). Randle is debatable imo.

yeah all of it is really just speculation from us. we won’t really know what would’ve happened. i am just glad it worked out in the end for us. whoever played a part in it deserves credit imo.
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Re: PG: Randle is different 

Post#266 » by F N 11 » Mon May 3, 2021 8:04 pm

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Re: PG: Randle is different 

Post#267 » by stuporman » Mon May 3, 2021 8:10 pm

It's not possible for something a person or regime does to be all 'good' or all 'bad', there will be decisions that will be both, even the same decision will have both 'good' or 'bad' effects. Although, the accumulated influence of all the decisions will have a positive or negative effect and one or two of the individual decisions may be anomalous to the overall effect of the accumulated decisions.

So, even though Mills and Perry may have made a few 'good' decisions the overall accumulation of their decisions wasn't a net positive effect. Just like a few of the Rose regime decisions may be 'bad' but the overall accumulation of decisions have had a net positive effect. Mills overall accumulated effect was a net negative in the long history he has had with the Knicks, he's gone and the evidence speaks for itself.
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Re: PG: Randle is different 

Post#268 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon May 3, 2021 8:10 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:im not arguing we should've kept him. we had to get rid of him. knicks have a losing record with mills. but i do think he had a decent plan on getting good talent. he just didn't know how to bring out the best out of our talent. he hired the worst coaches ever


I dont know if Mills really had a plan. Even at the end it sounded like Mills was pushing to trade Randle and keep Morris.



wasn't there another rumor that Mills was pushing to trade for DeAngelo Russell as well? He really seemed like the type of person that was throwing stuff up against the wall to see what sticks. Perry came in and we started accumulating picks and guys that kinda washed out on their rookie deals and that's how we ended up with Randle here. There was definitely a clear philosophy change once Perry came on board. I'm not here to claim that Perry is a visionary or anything but he made some good trades and help manage the cap well enough that's put us in this position to succeed.


Yea, that sounds like a Mills kind of move. Seemed like Perry kept Mills in check a little bit. Its hard to say who would be responsible for what. Perry at least was someone who had a clue about the cap and some basic common sense. But just looking at the Knicks now we pretty much cleaned house and are just operating in a different way....and all just translating over..
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Re: PG: Randle is different 

Post#269 » by cgmw » Mon May 3, 2021 8:20 pm

stuporman wrote:It's not possible for something a person or regime does to be all 'good' or all 'bad', there will be decisions that will be both, even the same decision will have both 'good' or 'bad' effects. Although, the accumulated influence of all the decisions will have a positive or negative effect and one or two of the individual decisions may be anomalous to the overall effect of the accumulated decisions.

So, even though Mills and Perry may have made a few 'good' decisions the overall accumulation of their decisions wasn't a net positive effect. Just like a few of the Rose regime decisions may be 'bad' but the overall accumulation of decisions have had a net positive effect. Mills overall accumulated effect was a net negative in the long history he has had with the Knicks, he's gone and the evidence speaks for itself.

But but but, good v evil, red v blue, black v white, 0 or 1! Better hush or you’ll confuse the algorithm.
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Re: PG: Randle is different 

Post#270 » by stuporman » Mon May 3, 2021 8:29 pm

cgmw wrote:
stuporman wrote:It's not possible for something a person or regime does to be all 'good' or all 'bad', there will be decisions that will be both, even the same decision will have both 'good' or 'bad' effects. Although, the accumulated influence of all the decisions will have a positive or negative effect and one or two of the individual decisions may be anomalous to the overall effect of the accumulated decisions.

So, even though Mills and Perry may have made a few 'good' decisions the overall accumulation of their decisions wasn't a net positive effect. Just like a few of the Rose regime decisions may be 'bad' but the overall accumulation of decisions have had a net positive effect. Mills overall accumulated effect was a net negative in the long history he has had with the Knicks, he's gone and the evidence speaks for itself.

But but but, good v evil, red v blue, black v white, 0 or 1! Better hush or you’ll confuse the algorithm.


I know how difficult it is the break the stranglehold of the binary bias has on the perception people have in their mind so much so one would think it is hardwired in and impossible to change or remove but yes, it is possible to do just that.

It is one of the most liberating things to experience the transcendence of the binary brain that veils the mind's perspective and to finally perceive existence not just in shades of gray but also in the rainbow spectrum of expression.
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Re: PG: Randle is different 

Post#271 » by cgmw » Mon May 3, 2021 9:04 pm

stuporman wrote:
cgmw wrote:
stuporman wrote:It's not possible for something a person or regime does to be all 'good' or all 'bad', there will be decisions that will be both, even the same decision will have both 'good' or 'bad' effects. Although, the accumulated influence of all the decisions will have a positive or negative effect and one or two of the individual decisions may be anomalous to the overall effect of the accumulated decisions.

So, even though Mills and Perry may have made a few 'good' decisions the overall accumulation of their decisions wasn't a net positive effect. Just like a few of the Rose regime decisions may be 'bad' but the overall accumulation of decisions have had a net positive effect. Mills overall accumulated effect was a net negative in the long history he has had with the Knicks, he's gone and the evidence speaks for itself.

But but but, good v evil, red v blue, black v white, 0 or 1! Better hush or you’ll confuse the algorithm.


I know how difficult it is the break the stranglehold of the binary bias has on the perception people have in their mind so much so one would think it is hardwired in and impossible to change or remove but yes, it is possible to do just that.

It is one of the most liberating things to experience the transcendence of the binary brain that veils the mind's perspective and to finally perceive existence not just in shades of gray but also in the rainbow spectrum of expression.

Not to burst your multiverse bubble, but what if it’s all just one big Sim written in good old fashion binary code?

I love blowing people’s minds (especially when they’ve smoked a joint) trying to get them to explain to me how they know 1 is 1 and not 1.00000000~1.

I’ll say this about our Knicks. While it’s technically correct that 1+1 does not = 2 (spoiler: there’s no such thing as 1); it also seems like a fairly safe approximation of reality to say Dolan’s Knicks have been catering to the stupidest common denominator for most of my conscious lifetime. At some gradient of zoom, dumb is just dumb. (And Scott Perry should be shown the door).
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Re: PG: Randle is different 

Post#272 » by stuporman » Mon May 3, 2021 9:33 pm

cgmw wrote:
stuporman wrote:
cgmw wrote:But but but, good v evil, red v blue, black v white, 0 or 1! Better hush or you’ll confuse the algorithm.


I know how difficult it is the break the stranglehold of the binary bias has on the perception people have in their mind so much so one would think it is hardwired in and impossible to change or remove but yes, it is possible to do just that.

It is one of the most liberating things to experience the transcendence of the binary brain that veils the mind's perspective and to finally perceive existence not just in shades of gray but also in the rainbow spectrum of expression.

Not to burst your multiverse bubble, but what if it’s all just one big Sim written in good old fashion binary code?

I love blowing people’s minds (especially when they’ve smoked a joint) trying to get them to explain to me how they know 1 is 1 and not 1.00000000~1.

I’ll say this about our Knicks. While it’s technically correct that 1+1 does not = 2 (spoiler: there’s no such thing as 1); it also seems like a fairly safe approximation of reality to say Dolan’s Knicks have been catering to the stupidest common denominator for most of my conscious lifetime. At some gradient of zoom, dumb is just dumb. (And Scott Perry should be shown the door).


That's hardly mind blowing to suggest this is simulation written in 'binary' code, it's actually pretty commonplace at this point. It's been an idea in circulation for centuries maybe even millennia so anyone who has contemplated life past the age of early teens probably has thought it or come across it.

All numerals are just representations of value and don't actually reflect existence exactly but are out best current method of describing the physical universe and using calculations to explain it. There may be a more accurate method of representation that we have yet to discover or develop.

We can try to calculate the exact value of how dumb Dolan is but does that formula allow for the value of dumb of the fans who continue to follow a team run by the measure of dumb that Dolan is? This variable is an unknown probabilistic quantity established through emotion that we may never able to accurately estimate.

:lol:
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Re: PG: Randle is different 

Post#273 » by Knicksfan1992 » Mon May 3, 2021 9:35 pm

I honestly think Mills/Fiz were essentially fired at the infamous press conference last year and I think Leon was shadow-gming up until the deadline... I think the Julius dinner with Wes and Leon that he brought up recently kinda confirms this. I think they were talking about it on the KFS pod but the timing was right before that press conference happened and it seems as though Dolan already knew Leon was the guy and they just had to work the particulars out on Leon's end before they could officially name him GM. Even the leaks about Masai kinda confirm it IMO. They did that to throw off the scent that they were hiring/working with Leon and bam when Leon could get things straightened out with CAA they got him in right before the deadline happened and strung Mills along enough until they could find a position for him outside of basketball.
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Re: PG: Randle is different 

Post#274 » by KnicksGod » Mon May 3, 2021 9:48 pm

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Re: PG: Randle is different 

Post#275 » by BKlutch » Mon May 3, 2021 9:49 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:im not arguing we should've kept him. we had to get rid of him. knicks have a losing record with mills. but i do think he had a decent plan on getting good talent. he just didn't know how to bring out the best out of our talent. he hired the worst coaches ever


I dont know if Mills really had a plan. Even at the end it sounded like Mills was pushing to trade Randle and keep Morris.

you’re actually right. I remember the Randle for Rozier rumors was when Mills was still there. i guess he didn’t really know what he was doing at all. i do wonder how much of a influence Perry had. i wouldn’t be surprised if perry was actually some smart guy and tried to talk Mills out of his mistakes. I guess we’ll see if the Knicks decide to bring him back

Mills was a fuqqing moron and Dolan was one, as well, for keeping Mills in that spot.
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Re: PG: Randle is different 

Post#276 » by cgmw » Mon May 3, 2021 10:01 pm

Spoiler:
cgmw wrote:
stuporman wrote:
cgmw wrote:But but but, good v evil, red v blue, black v white, 0 or 1! Better hush or you’ll confuse the algorithm.


I know how difficult it is the break the stranglehold of the binary bias has on the perception people have in their mind so much so one would think it is hardwired in and impossible to change or remove but yes, it is possible to do just that.

It is one of the most liberating things to experience the transcendence of the binary brain that veils the mind's perspective and to finally perceive existence not just in shades of gray but also in the rainbow spectrum of expression.

Not to burst your multiverse bubble, but what if it’s all just one big Sim written in good old fashion binary code?

I love blowing people’s minds (especially when they’ve smoked a joint) trying to get them to explain to me how they know 1 is 1 and not 1.00000000~1.

I’ll say this about our Knicks. While it’s technically correct that 1+1 does not = 2 (spoiler: there’s no such thing as 1); it also seems like a fairly safe approximation of reality to say Dolan’s Knicks have been catering to the stupidest common denominator for most of my conscious lifetime. At some gradient of zoom, dumb is just dumb. (And Scott Perry should be shown the door).

If the world is a computer Sim written in binary, then wouldn’t the fabric of our very existence support the binary bias of every moron on Facebook? Wouldn’t Kyrie kinda be correct about the Earth being flat?

As for us, yes clearly we’re just dumb primates with exaggerated prefrontal lobes. My emotional attachment to this idiotic team is about as rational as having sex after a vasectomy. Albeit FINALLY with a much hotter woman this season after two decades of slumming it. :nod:

My theory is we all kind of feel the dissonance between what’s “real” versus this stupid thing called life we care so much about on a day to day basis. God is dead. Religion is slowly dying. But sports is epically thriving. Go figure. Also interesting and probably not a coincidence that (according to Pinker at Harvard, anyway) human violence and war has decreased 50% every 100 years. We probably let ourselves get so wound up over “my team” versus “your team” because ultimately it’s a far healthier exercise than thermonuclear winter. (Although Fizdale’s tenure might give you pause).

These and other casual Monday thoughts on the Knicks board...
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Re: PG: Randle is different 

Post#277 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Mon May 3, 2021 10:10 pm

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Re: PG: Randle is different 

Post#278 » by KnicksGod » Mon May 3, 2021 10:18 pm

cgmw wrote:
Spoiler:
cgmw wrote:
stuporman wrote:
I know how difficult it is the break the stranglehold of the binary bias has on the perception people have in their mind so much so one would think it is hardwired in and impossible to change or remove but yes, it is possible to do just that.

It is one of the most liberating things to experience the transcendence of the binary brain that veils the mind's perspective and to finally perceive existence not just in shades of gray but also in the rainbow spectrum of expression.

Not to burst your multiverse bubble, but what if it’s all just one big Sim written in good old fashion binary code?

I love blowing people’s minds (especially when they’ve smoked a joint) trying to get them to explain to me how they know 1 is 1 and not 1.00000000~1.

I’ll say this about our Knicks. While it’s technically correct that 1+1 does not = 2 (spoiler: there’s no such thing as 1); it also seems like a fairly safe approximation of reality to say Dolan’s Knicks have been catering to the stupidest common denominator for most of my conscious lifetime. At some gradient of zoom, dumb is just dumb. (And Scott Perry should be shown the door).

If the world is a computer Sim written in binary, then wouldn’t the fabric of our very existence support the binary bias of every moron on Facebook? Wouldn’t Kyrie kinda be correct about the Earth being flat?

As for us, yes clearly we’re just dumb primates with exaggerated prefrontal lobes. My emotional attachment to this idiotic team is about as rational as having sex after a vasectomy. Albeit FINALLY with a much hotter woman this season after two decades of slumming it. :nod:

My theory is we all kind of feel the dissonance between what’s “real” versus this stupid thing called life we care so much about on a day to day basis. God is dead. Religion is slowly dying. But sports is epically thriving. Go figure. Also interesting and probably not a coincidence that (according to Pinker at Harvard, anyway) human violence and war has decreased 50% every 100 years. We probably let ourselves get so wound up over “my team” versus “your team” because ultimately it’s a far healthier exercise than thermonuclear winter. (Although Fizdale’s tenure might give you pause).

These and other casual Monday thoughts on the Knicks board...


It's not a bad theory and probably more right than wrong, but the other way to look at it is that sports is merely another exit on the highway we whizz past -- more than signifying much of anything. We still don't get signals from anywhere of advanced civilizations. These societies just don't last very long and cycle from belief and attempts at progress to despair and aimless decline.
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Re: PG: Randle is different 

Post#279 » by KnicksGod » Mon May 3, 2021 10:34 pm

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Pritchard having a nice season but he's averaging more minute than IQ and 4 PPG less.
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Re: PG: Randle is different 

Post#280 » by cgmw » Mon May 3, 2021 10:35 pm

KnicksGod wrote:
cgmw wrote:
Spoiler:
cgmw wrote:Not to burst your multiverse bubble, but what if it’s all just one big Sim written in good old fashion binary code?

I love blowing people’s minds (especially when they’ve smoked a joint) trying to get them to explain to me how they know 1 is 1 and not 1.00000000~1.

I’ll say this about our Knicks. While it’s technically correct that 1+1 does not = 2 (spoiler: there’s no such thing as 1); it also seems like a fairly safe approximation of reality to say Dolan’s Knicks have been catering to the stupidest common denominator for most of my conscious lifetime. At some gradient of zoom, dumb is just dumb. (And Scott Perry should be shown the door).

If the world is a computer Sim written in binary, then wouldn’t the fabric of our very existence support the binary bias of every moron on Facebook? Wouldn’t Kyrie kinda be correct about the Earth being flat?

As for us, yes clearly we’re just dumb primates with exaggerated prefrontal lobes. My emotional attachment to this idiotic team is about as rational as having sex after a vasectomy. Albeit FINALLY with a much hotter woman this season after two decades of slumming it. :nod:

My theory is we all kind of feel the dissonance between what’s “real” versus this stupid thing called life we care so much about on a day to day basis. God is dead. Religion is slowly dying. But sports is epically thriving. Go figure. Also interesting and probably not a coincidence that (according to Pinker at Harvard, anyway) human violence and war has decreased 50% every 100 years. We probably let ourselves get so wound up over “my team” versus “your team” because ultimately it’s a far healthier exercise than thermonuclear winter. (Although Fizdale’s tenure might give you pause).

These and other casual Monday thoughts on the Knicks board...


It's not a bad theory and probably more right than wrong, but the other way to look at it is that sports is merely another exit on the highway we whizz past -- more than signifying much of anything. We still don't get signals from anywhere of advanced civilizations. These societies just don't last very long and cycle from belief and attempts at progress to despair and aimless decline.

Relax, I didn’t say KnicksGod is dead ;)

Kind of an ironically atheistic world view there, chief. Personally, I choose not to attribute despair to the apparent certainty of the universe’s inevitable expansion to cold empty death. I mean, after all, I’m just a chimpanzee sharing 99.999% of my DNA with the likes of Wally Zczerbiak. How do I know that “nothing” is really “nothing”? I started down this cosmological rabbit hole by saying that 1 isn’t 1. Why should 0 be 0?

Personally, I choose to believe that believing is just as much of a crucial life choice as rooting for a sports team, being a good dad, or occasionally getting laid despite being a massive nerd approaching 18k posts on a Knicks message board.
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