Official Trade Thread -- Part XL

Post #1641 » by **Ruzious** » Mon May 3, 2021 12:45 pm

gambitx777 wrote:I'm worries nato will get attention from a contender with some cash

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Washington has veto power over Nato. j/k

Post #1642 » by **nate33** » Mon May 3, 2021 1:02 pm

gambitx777 wrote:I'm worries nato will get attention from a contender with some cash

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I'm not.

Neto is good, but he is really short. Short guys typically get played off the floor in the playoffs when offenses force defenses into switching and then target mismatches. He's not a guy that a contender wants for the playoffs. He's the opposite. He's a guy that a team leans on in the 82-game grind of the regular season when teams don't have time to game plan how to exploit his lack of size.

Also, Neto isn't really a true PG. He is at his best when he plays SG on offense but defends PG's on defense. The only teams that would value him are teams that have a PG big enough to defend SG's and SF's - teams like Dallas, the Lakers, and the Bucks.

I wouldn't be surprised if we can get Neto back for the vet-minimum (2.0M), or use non-Bird rights to pay him the vet minimum plus 20% ($2.4M). At worst, he will cost the biannual exception ($3.7M), but I probably wouldn't pay him that unless we struck out in our quest to find one more good rotation player with the MLE.

I really like Neto, but scrappy, hard-working, undersized guys are always available. You don't sacrifice valuable cap room to acquire them. They're just too plentiful.

Likewise, you shouldn't pay any real money for space-eating, rim-running centers who aren't either elite rim protectors or good shooters. I'd be happy to keep Len as our 3rd string center next year, but not if it costs significantly more than the vet minimum.

Post #1643 » by **nate33** » Mon May 3, 2021 1:02 pm

Ruzious wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I'm worries nato will get attention from a contender with some cash

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Washington has veto power over Nato. j/k

Is that like RFA rights?

pcbothwel · Post #1644 » by **pcbothwel** » Mon May 3, 2021 1:20 pm

nate33 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I'm worries nato will get attention from a contender with some cash

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I'm not.

Neto is good, but he is really short. Short guys typically get played off the floor in the playoffs when offenses force defenses into switching and then target mismatches. He's not a guy that a contender wants for the playoffs. He's the opposite. He's a guy that a team leans on in the 82-game grind of the regular season when teams don't have time to game plan how to exploit his lack of size.

Also, Neto isn't really a true PG. He is at his best when he plays SG on offense but defends PG's on defense. The only teams that would value him are teams that have a PG big enough to defend SG's and SF's - teams like Dallas, the Lakers, and the Bucks.

I wouldn't be surprised if we can get Neto back for the vet-minimum (2.0M), or use non-Bird rights to pay him the vet minimum plus 20% ($2.4M). At worst, he will cost the biannual exception ($3.7M), but I probably wouldn't pay him that unless we struck out in our quest to find one more good rotation player with the MLE.

I really like Neto, but scrappy, hard-working, undersized guys are always available. You don't sacrifice valuable cap room to acquire them. They're just too plentiful.

Likewise, you shouldn't pay any real money for space-eating rim-running centers who aren't either elite rim protectors or good shooters. I'd be happy to keep Len as our 3rd string center next year, but not if it costs significantly more than the vet minimum.

Agreed. I love Neto and had him as my sleeper FA pickup before the year started... but

Neto 19/20 per 100: 20 / 4.5 / 7 with TS of 57% and 2:1 AST:TOV ratio.... Signs for Vet Min
Neto 20/21 per 100: 18 / 5.5 / 5 with TS of 57% and 2.5:1 AST TOV ratio.... ????

Love the guy, but lets not act like he transformed his game/production.
McConnell, Neto, Frank Jackson, Ferrell, etc.... No reason these guys will get more than 2.5M.

That said, its one reason im a huge fan of Springer in the draft. His ceiling is Kyle Lowry, but he can step in day one and provide energy, defense, IQ, etc. as a good compliment to Winston.

I think a backcourt of Winston/Springer would be VERY effective as they gained experience for cheap.

I could also see Beal playing a whole year with Springer and think... This is THE guy to take over for Russ in 2 years, which would give him more comfort in resigning for 4-5 years.

Frichuela · Post #1645 » by **Frichuela** » Mon May 3, 2021 1:51 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
nate33 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I'm worries nato will get attention from a contender with some cash

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I'm not.

Neto is good, but he is really short. Short guys typically get played off the floor in the playoffs when offenses force defenses into switching and then target mismatches. He's not a guy that a contender wants for the playoffs. He's the opposite. He's a guy that a team leans on in the 82-game grind of the regular season when teams don't have time to game plan how to exploit his lack of size.

Also, Neto isn't really a true PG. He is at his best when he plays SG on offense but defends PG's on defense. The only teams that would value him are teams that have a PG big enough to defend SG's and SF's - teams like Dallas, the Lakers, and the Bucks.

I wouldn't be surprised if we can get Neto back for the vet-minimum (2.0M), or use non-Bird rights to pay him the vet minimum plus 20% ($2.4M). At worst, he will cost the biannual exception ($3.7M), but I probably wouldn't pay him that unless we struck out in our quest to find one more good rotation player with the MLE.

I really like Neto, but scrappy, hard-working, undersized guys are always available. You don't sacrifice valuable cap room to acquire them. They're just too plentiful.

Likewise, you shouldn't pay any real money for space-eating rim-running centers who aren't either elite rim protectors or good shooters. I'd be happy to keep Len as our 3rd string center next year, but not if it costs significantly more than the vet minimum.

Agreed. I love Neto and had him as my sleeper FA pickup before the year started... but

Neto 19/20 per 100: 20 / 4.5 / 7 with TS of 57% and 2:1 AST:TOV ratio.... Signs for Vet Min
Neto 20/21 per 100: 18 / 5.5 / 5 with TS of 57% and 2.5:1 AST TOV ratio.... ????

Love the guy, but lets not act like he transformed his game/production.
McConnell, Neto, Frank Jackson, Ferrell, etc.... No reason these guys will get more than 2.5M.

That said, its one reason im a huge fan of Springer in the draft. His ceiling is Kyle Lowry, but he can step in day one and provide energy, defense, IQ, etc. as a good compliment to Winston.

I think a backcourt of Winston/Springer would be VERY effective as they gained experience for cheap.

I could also see Beal playing a whole year with Springer and think... This is THE guy to take over for Russ in 2 years, which would give him more comfort in resigning for 4-5 years.

I like your thinking here. I like Springer although I like Butler a bit more (can't explain why, he is older but I think he has "it", and would be a great addition for the Wiz).

I rather use the MLE (or part of it) to get a veteran 3&D wing. One guy that probably would come cheap and is having a solid season is Kent Bazemore. He is shooting the 3 well and continues to be a pest defensively. He can play both the 3 and the 2 and would compliment Beal and Russ very well.

Post #1646 » by **Ruzious** » Mon May 3, 2021 1:57 pm

I don't see the comps of Springer to Lowry. He's a bigger guy than Lowry, and I seem him much more likely to stay as a 2. He's a very young guy, and it's hard to tell how well he's going to develop - especially after a so-so finish to his season that saw Keon Johnson take over as the team's top prospect. I think he's a good prospect, but it's going to take him a while to develop. I'd pass on Springer.

pcbothwel · Post #1647 » by **pcbothwel** » Mon May 3, 2021 4:04 pm

Ruzious wrote:I don't see the comps of Springer to Lowry. He's a bigger guy than Lowry, and I seem him much more likely to stay as a 2. He's a very young guy, and it's hard to tell how well he's going to develop - especially after a so-so finish to his season that saw Keon Johnson take over as the team's top prospect. I think he's a good prospect, but it's going to take him a while to develop. I'd pass on Springer.

Springer has Lowry game in Beal's body. All the markers of a guy who will be in the AS conversation most of his career.
- Youngest player in his class and already a mans body. Might be the strongest guy pound for pound.
- Still building offensive repertoire/ball handling, but great touch around the basket.
- Best man/Point of Attack defender at the guard spot with quick hands and feet.
- Elite Awareness both defensively and off the ball

I agree he's not a natural PG in the true sense, but that is almost why he is perfect next to a premier player like Beal.
I love the two guard attack where at least one of the "lead" guards is always on the floor and you cant double.

I think he's a Rozier/Melton/Murray caliber player by year 3. Do you know how dangerous and versatile our backcourt would be with a Melton caliber combo guard as our 3rd guard? Thats a steal at 15, and that doesnt take into account upside as Springer is a better prospect than Melton on both ends of the court.

Post #1648 » by **Ruzious** » Mon May 3, 2021 4:12 pm

pcbothwel wrote:
Ruzious wrote:I don't see the comps of Springer to Lowry. He's a bigger guy than Lowry, and I seem him much more likely to stay as a 2. He's a very young guy, and it's hard to tell how well he's going to develop - especially after a so-so finish to his season that saw Keon Johnson take over as the team's top prospect. I think he's a good prospect, but it's going to take him a while to develop. I'd pass on Springer.

Springer has Lowry game in Beal's body. All the markers of a guy who will be in the AS conversation most of his career.
- Youngest player in his class and already a mans body. Might be the strongest guy pound for pound.
- Still building offensive repertoire/ball handling, but great touch around the basket.
- Best man/Point of Attack defender at the guard spot with quick hands and feet.
- Elite Awareness both defensively and off the ball

I agree he's not a natural PG in the true sense, but that is almost why he is perfect next to a premier player like Beal.
I love the two guard attack where at least one of the "lead" guards is always on the floor and you cant double.

I think he's a Rozier/Melton/Murray caliber player by year 3. Do you know how dangerous and versatile our backcourt would be with a Melton caliber combo guard as our 3rd guard? Thats a steal at 15, and that doesnt take into account upside as Springer is a better prospect than Melton on both ends of the court.

I like Melton - I think he's a more explosive athlete than Springer - though Springer is probably a better shooter at the same age.

Dat2U · Post #1649 » by **Dat2U** » Mon May 3, 2021 6:11 pm

Ruzious wrote:I don't see the comps of Springer to Lowry. He's a bigger guy than Lowry, and I seem him much more likely to stay as a 2. He's a very young guy, and it's hard to tell how well he's going to develop - especially after a so-so finish to his season that saw Keon Johnson take over as the team's top prospect. I think he's a good prospect, but it's going to take him a while to develop. I'd pass on Springer.

Yeah I don't see it all. I think folks forgot how impressive Lowry was at Villanova. He was a bull in a China shop and wrecked havoc on both sides of the ball. I thought he was a better prospect than the more highly touted Foye coming out. So did John Thompson. Springer is a solid prospect but I see him more as complimentary piece to a dominant ballhandler or a 3rd guard.

badinage · Post #1650 » by **badinage** » Tue May 4, 2021 2:21 am

nate33 wrote:
gambitx777 wrote:I'm worries nato will get attention from a contender with some cash

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using RealGM mobile app

I'm not.

Neto is good, but he is really short. Short guys typically get played off the floor in the playoffs when offenses force defenses into switching and then target mismatches. He's not a guy that a contender wants for the playoffs. He's the opposite. He's a guy that a team leans on in the 82-game grind of the regular season when teams don't have time to game plan how to exploit his lack of size.

Also, Neto isn't really a true PG. He is at his best when he plays SG on offense but defends PG's on defense. The only teams that would value him are teams that have a PG big enough to defend SG's and SF's - teams like Dallas, the Lakers, and the Bucks.

I wouldn't be surprised if we can get Neto back for the vet-minimum (2.0M), or use non-Bird rights to pay him the vet minimum plus 20% ($2.4M). At worst, he will cost the biannual exception ($3.7M), but I probably wouldn't pay him that unless we struck out in our quest to find one more good rotation player with the MLE.

I really like Neto, but scrappy, hard-working, undersized guys are always available. You don't sacrifice valuable cap room to acquire them. They're just too plentiful.

Likewise, you shouldn't pay any real money for space-eating, rim-running centers who aren't either elite rim protectors or good shooters. I'd be happy to keep Len as our 3rd string center next year, but not if it costs significantly more than the vet minimum.

Generally true. But that Dallas title team in 2011 that took down the Heat with El B.J., Wade, and Bosh — God, that was glorious — had J.J. Barrea, and Barrea, if you recall, was critical in a couple games in that series. They wouldn’t have won without him.

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #1651 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Tue May 4, 2021 10:13 pm

DeShawn Stevenson and Shawn Marion also had a lot to do with Dallas defeating Miami.

(I looked up on wiki that Caron Butler with Dallas missed those playoffs injured. He had been starting ahead of Marion.)

dckingsfan · Post #1652 » by **dckingsfan** » Tue May 4, 2021 10:37 pm

Oh, and yeah - Westbrook has trade value now...

DCZards · Post #1653 » by **DCZards** » Tue May 4, 2021 11:37 pm

dckingsfan wrote:Oh, and yeah - Westbrook has trade value now...

That's not likely to happen...at least not when the Zards are winning and Russ and BB are meshing.

dckingsfan · Post #1654 » by **dckingsfan** » Wed May 5, 2021 1:06 am

DCZards wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Oh, and yeah - Westbrook has trade value now...

That's not likely to happen...at least not when the Zards are winning and Russ and BB are meshing.

And we are past the trade deadline

I am not suggesting a trade. I am just saying that unlike before he is moveable and he has value. From last year in Houston and the first half of this season he was neither.

PaulinVA · Post #1655 » by **PaulinVA** » Wed May 5, 2021 2:51 am

dckingsfan wrote:
DCZards wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:Oh, and yeah - Westbrook has trade value now...

That's not likely to happen...at least not when the Zards are winning and Russ and BB are meshing.

And we are past the trade deadline

I am not suggesting a trade. I am just saying that unlike before he is moveable and he has value. From last year in Houston and the first half of this season he was neither.

Imagine had he been playing this well all season. How tempting would the trade deadline have been under THOSE circumstances (especially since our record might have been very strong at that moment)???

gambitx777 · Post #1656 » by **gambitx777** » Wed May 5, 2021 7:54 am

If he was playing like this I get LAC would have called

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9 and 20 · Post #1657 » by **9 and 20** » Wed May 5, 2021 8:49 am

PaulinVA wrote:
dckingsfan wrote:
DCZards wrote:That's not likely to happen...at least not when the Zards are winning and Russ and BB are meshing.

And we are past the trade deadline

I am not suggesting a trade. I am just saying that unlike before he is moveable and he has value. From last year in Houston and the first half of this season he was neither.

Imagine had he been playing this well all season. How tempting would the trade deadline have been under THOSE circumstances (especially since our record might have been very strong at that moment)???

We would have brought back Trevor Ariza. That would have been hilarious/amazing/SoWizards.

Dat2U · Post #1658 » by **Dat2U** » Sat May 8, 2021 12:24 am

If Shepp stays I expect an "all in" move this offseason with Westbrook & Beal ready to build off this new found chemistry.

Karl Anthony Towns is probably out of reach but I suspect Domantas Sabonis to be a strong target. Also guys like Harrison Barnes or Jerami Grant could also be targets.

Dat2U · Post #1659 » by **Dat2U** » Sat May 8, 2021 12:48 am

Neto is someone I don't break the bank on. One year at the bi annual exception? OK. Getting into a bidding war on a multi-year deal? Pass.

No matter what I offer the first round pick & Thomas Bryant for Christian Wood this offseason.

gambitx777 · Post #1660 » by **gambitx777** » Sat May 8, 2021 1:06 am

I don't. Kid can't stay healthy.

Dat2U wrote:Neto is someone I don't break the bank on. One year at the bi annual exception? OK. Getting into a bidding war on a multi-year deal? Pass.

No matter what I offer the first round pick & Thomas Bryant for Christian Wood this offseason.

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