GAME 66 : Hornets @ Pistons 7PM

[vic]

I love Hayes passing and defense but I just dont see any scoring instincts or touch. And I never have. He doesnt even show flashes of assertive bucket getting.

Maybe it's a European pg thing. Even in his TV series he looked like he was too focused on the weights and looking like an NBA player rather than getting his game tight.

Hopefully he can develop an offensive game over this summer. I don't think they can play him with the kid gloves 2 years in a row.

I'm not saying hes useless, I'm just saying not having the mindset to score lowers his potential significantly and any wise GM would start putting a plan B in the back of his mind.

[chrbal]

I see we are back to the "Hayes sucks" part of the season again.

Good to know.

Just as a reminder, it is only his 20th game, and his first back to back since coming off an injury.

All of the other generic angry pistons fans talking points have been eliminated or close. Shoot sekou and Diallo showed up.

Just be fun to bring these back up in the future and see who was actually correct.

[Trey24]

Hornets fan here. I saw the Pistons play in person. Saturday and again on TV tonight. I just wanted to say that you guys have a lot of good young pieces and I wish you the best.

Also, I deduced from the other night that Hayes definitely has the tools to be a good player in this league, but he has a way to go on catching up speed-wise.

BUT your team could have laid down multiple times with all of the injuries, and they fought/fight hard most nights. Has to be fun to see considering the record.

Good luck in the lottery! Would love to see y'all get a top 3 pick.

[ComboGuardCity]

I really like this Hornets club, but after two games of listening to their announcers, I can’t take anymore. It’s funny in highlight clips but full games of that “excitement” is obnoxious

[flow]

Hayes with an epic tank performance.
Turnovers down the stretch, missed free throw and then slips over when we need to foul

And as soon as I saw he was taking that last 3 I knew it was a L and we weren't going to OT.

Honestly, if we're really trying to win next year, Hayes likely is an 18 MPG backup at most. He still has a really long ways to go before he is a guy that helps the team win.

Pretty much. And I don’t think that’s a knock on him, just reality. His potential is still there and I think he’ll be a good player. I think we keep Cojo and his huge contract and Hayes is his back up next year.

No way. Weaver has shown that he's not nearly dumb enough to keep Joseph & his contract next season. They may be drafting a pg anyway. But regardless, Cojo has to be gone.

.

[tmorgan]

Cojo better be a trade piece. Weaver runs this team, not Casey. You can’t build a quality team with a guy that pounds the ball that much.

And yes, you can’t build a quality team around the current version of Killian, either. But he’s 19. Take a deep breath, people.

Frank J should be back for sure. He has quality 6th man/instant offense written all over his future. Still not sure about Diallo, Sekou, and Josh J. Can’t imagine we have room for all of them, and if they aren’t going to play, there’s no real point. Weaver trades — we know this — so I have to imagine at least one, maybe two of them, are gone before next season starts.

Still, if we don’t win the lottery or draft Suggs, our PG options are going to be limited. Hayes and Lee, mostly. I think that fits into the intel we heard earlier, and next year’s plans depend a lot on who we draft.

[ducler]

I have to admit that Frank Jackson proved me wrong in the last couple of games, being less selfish, with a nice mix of scoring and sharing the ball. If he can keep doing that, he could be a nice option off the bench.

Nice game by Sekou also, I still have the hope for him to be at least our backup PF.

[vic]

One guy Troy better not give up on is Sekou.

It's good to see him play with confidence, not having Casey breathing down his neck.

He's shows flashes of what he is, and when he's hungry to score and has the green light, hes going to be a lethal 2-way weapon.

There's not a lot of guys with his strength on defense that can also get hot from 3 and create on both drives and cuts.

[Manocad]

I love Hayes passing and defense but I just dont see any scoring instincts or touch. And I never have. He doesnt even show flashes of assertive bucket getting.

Maybe it's a European pg thing. Even in his TV series he looked like he was too focused on the weights and looking like an NBA player rather than getting his game tight.

Hopefully he can develop an offensive game over this summer. I don't think they can play him with the kid gloves 2 years in a row.

I'm not saying hes useless, I'm just saying not having the mindset to score lowers his potential significantly and any wise GM would start putting a plan B in the back of his mind.

You've NEVER seen Killian Hayes, from the 3 point line, take his man one on one to the rack? Then you're not watching the games. Does he almost always do it left handed? Yep. Does he have a high scoring rate when he does? Nope. But does he try it? Absolutely.

Maybe Hayes turns out to be unworthy of a 7th pick when it's all said and done. But if he even turns into a starting PG period I'm going to be standing in the line waiting to serve up crow. And that's not because I'm a huge Killian fan; I was a fan of the pick because of my team-building philosophy rather than a fan of Hayes specifically. But one thing I've learned in my years in any sport is that judging a rookie in a partial season after coming off an injury is pointless. Or judging a rookie period. This idea that any rookie should be hitting the league ready to play, fully developed or they're a bust is ridiculous.

"I'm not saying he's useless..." GTFO with that. The kid has already shown that he has excellent court vision and passing ability.

[tradez401]

I love Hayes passing and defense but I just dont see any scoring instincts or touch. And I never have. He doesnt even show flashes of assertive bucket getting.

Maybe it's a European pg thing. Even in his TV series he looked like he was too focused on the weights and looking like an NBA player rather than getting his game tight.

Hopefully he can develop an offensive game over this summer. I don't think they can play him with the kid gloves 2 years in a row.

I'm not saying hes useless, I'm just saying not having the mindset to score lowers his potential significantly and any wise GM would start putting a plan B in the back of his mind.

Honestly with the last few games we have left in the season Killian should continue playing the way he's been playing. Have him continue learning on how to move the offense and finding certain guys at their spots his offensive game will be worked on over the summer.

[NYPiston]

Come on people (although it's only a select few), Hayes is a teenager playing in a mens' league and all I see is absolute statements about what he sucks at.

Yes, a teenager coming over from Europe after suffering through an injury is struggling to find his game. Surely that screams bust to me.

The bottom line is that his offensive game is raw right now (as most people knew at the draft) and the injury set him back so he still has lots of stuff to work on, and tons of development time ahead of him to show improvement. Lets cut the kid a little slack.

[FloridaMan78]

The only reason I’m judging Killian so early is because from what Grant is saying and the reports we’re getting from the inside, we will probably be fighting for the playoffs next year. So to me, that means they think they pretty much have their team in mind. Does that include Killian at the starting point guard position? Is Killian a starting point guard on a playoff team right now? If not, I’m not sure how you can think you’ll be fighting for a playoff spot with so much uncertainty at such an important position.

[kpt]

For me personally I think this off-season is crucial for Hayes hopefully we hear about what good work ethic he has and he’s a gym rat. Hopefully all three rookies are working their butt off this off-season to take it to the next level. In my opinion he is a head of the game with his court vision and passing as a rookie. often times that is what rookie point guards suffer with. He doesn’t have horrible mechanics shooting wise so that’s a plus as well. Get in the gym with bey and stew and work on that offense of game shooting the ball and his right hand. Hoping for accolades on his off season work ethic.

[Manocad]

The only reason I’m judging Killian so early is because from what Grant is saying and the reports we’re getting from the inside, we will probably be fighting for the playoffs next year. So to me, that means they think they pretty much have their team in mind. Does that include Killian at the starting point guard position? Is Killian a starting point guard on a playoff team right now? If not, I’m not sure how you can think you’ll be fighting for a playoff spot with so much uncertainty at such an important position.

If you take Hayes' averages this year at 24.1 minutes/game playing with mostly bench players and project them over 35 minutes/game he'd be at 8.3 points, 7.3 assists and 3.6 rebounds. Now, is that championship level PG play? Of course not. But that's a long way from "Man, this guy is killing us" numbers. Put him out there with Grant, Stew and Bey for 35 minutes a game and I'd bet he'd get to 10 PPG and 9-10 APG instantly with zero improvement from where he is now. And if he gains some offensive improvement to 14-15 PPG and 10 APG? Now you're talking playoff PG production for sure.

[ducler]

The only reason I’m judging Killian so early is because from what Grant is saying and the reports we’re getting from the inside, we will probably be fighting for the playoffs next year. So to me, that means they think they pretty much have their team in mind. Does that include Killian at the starting point guard position? Is Killian a starting point guard on a playoff team right now? If not, I’m not sure how you can think you’ll be fighting for a playoff spot with so much uncertainty at such an important position.

To me they tell Jerami that we plan for a playoffs push next year with a top pick of this draft so that he accepts with no problem to sit down for most of the remaining games.
I can see us in the play-in range next season (like 10 to 12), but we'll likely still be in the lottery.

[FloridaMan78]

The only reason I’m judging Killian so early is because from what Grant is saying and the reports we’re getting from the inside, we will probably be fighting for the playoffs next year. So to me, that means they think they pretty much have their team in mind. Does that include Killian at the starting point guard position? Is Killian a starting point guard on a playoff team right now? If not, I’m not sure how you can think you’ll be fighting for a playoff spot with so much uncertainty at such an important position.

If you take Hayes' averages this year at 24.1 minutes/game playing with mostly bench players and project them over 35 minutes/game he'd be at 8.3 points, 7.3 assists and 3.6 rebounds. Now, is that championship level PG play? Of course not. But that's a long way from "Man, this guy is killing us" numbers. Put him out there with Grant, Stew and Bey for 35 minutes a game and I'd bet he'd get to 10 PPG and 9-10 APG instantly with zero improvement from where he is now. And if he gains some offensive improvement to 14-15 PPG and 10 APG? Now you're talking playoff PG production for sure.

You left out the 4.5 turnovers in those projected numbers. Right now I think he’s making too many mistakes to be a starting point guard on a playoff team. 20-25 mpg backup for sure. He could turn it around next season which I really hope so. I think he will be a starting point guard on a good team one day, probably by year 4. I just don’t think the plan is for Killian to be the starter next year unless we are tanking again.

[FloridaMan78]

The only reason I’m judging Killian so early is because from what Grant is saying and the reports we’re getting from the inside, we will probably be fighting for the playoffs next year. So to me, that means they think they pretty much have their team in mind. Does that include Killian at the starting point guard position? Is Killian a starting point guard on a playoff team right now? If not, I’m not sure how you can think you’ll be fighting for a playoff spot with so much uncertainty at such an important position.

To me they tell Jerami that we plan for a playoffs push next year with a top pick of this draft so that he accepts with no problem to sit down for most of the remaining games.
I can see us in the play-in range next season (like 10 to 12), but we'll likely still be in the lottery.

Totally agree with this. Is it confirmed that next year we’ll have play-ins again?

[Invictus88]

A guy has played a total of 21 games; happening in two periods separated by several months of recovery from a potentially career-threatening injury. He's 19 and learning the most difficult position in the game. He plays with a different collection of players every game; making it near impossible to establish patterns. The players he plays with are also mostly new as well; often missing wide open shots that he sets them up with.

Any of those above would completely justify a slow progression. Killian has had to face all of them.

People ready to throw in the towel on him at this point need to seriously reevaluate and ask themselves whether they are really thinking before they post.

[Drwho17]

How could so many people be so high on Hayes in the draft? He seemed lacking the day he stepped on the court here.

Not enough tape on him and playing in a inferior league, most of his draft position was based on pure projection. Seriously, I've seen some nice plays, but he really can't dribble with his right hand, that's crazy for a NBA player that is drafted as a PG, let alone one that is picked in the lottery.

[FloridaMan78]

A guy has played a total of 21 games; happening in two periods separated by several months of recovery from a potentially career-threatening injury. He's 19 and learning the most difficult position in the game. He plays with a different collection of players every game; making it near impossible to establish patterns. The players he plays with are also mostly new as well; often missing wide open shots that he sets them up with.

Any of those above would completely justify a slow progression. Killian has had to face all of them.

People ready to throw in the towel on him at this point need to seriously reevaluate and ask themselves whether they are really thinking before they post.

I’m definitely not throwing in the towel on him. I’m saying he needs time develop. Saying he’s not an NBA starter in year two is not giving up on him. I’m saying if the Pistons want to be a playoff team next year, Killian should be coming off the bench.