Better Supprting Cast - Kobe's '06 Lakers or Curry's '21 Warriors?

[Rainwater]

The thing is that Kerr was in development mode rather than winning as many games as possible. He said countless times this year winning games wasn’t a priority.

I disagree, I believe Kerr is saying this for the media. The mere fact that they benched Wiseman, their young player with the most potential, instead of allowing him to play through his mistakes and the fact they are fighting for a play in game says otherwise.

lol, the only rooks that got more usage than Wiseman are Melo and Antman, otherwise Wiseman got >20 mins a night and on 24% usage, despite being overly destructive to this team every minute he was on the court.

Kerr abandoned his own scheme, at the expense of Steph and Dray, to get Wiseman looks to get him more comfortable...but it was pretty clear if we were to have a chance at the POs we couldn't do that anymore...that's how bad Wiseman was. just look at the On/Off numbers when Loon was on the floor vs. Wiseman.

EXACTLY, you are proving my point!!! It's winning over development for the GSW right now.

[IgorK]

People are overrating Odom and underrating Draymond+Wiggins.

Wiggins is trash though. Tough call.

He sucks at team ball and couldn't care less about winning basketball, but he's a better individual talent skill-wise than anyone on that Lakers squad in 06 outside of Kobe.

[dhsilv2]

I think that Wiseman could look better than he has so far if Kerr approached the season without having Curry. I feel like their (Kerr's and Wiseman's) personalities/systems/timelines haven't meshed well so far. It's kind of a bizarre situation. I think he's at the very least more talented than Chris Mihm.

i mean, he's more talented than Looney, doesn't mean he's a better bball player at this point.

and I'd argue the opposite, Kerr went out of his way to try and develop Wiseman, gave him over 20mins per game and a 24% usage when he did nothing to earn it, in fact it came at the expense of the overarching offense and Steph/Dray...dude was so destructive to our offense and scheme this year that it was a legit sigh of relief anytime he went off the floor.

either way just not sure how you can include him in some hypothetical lineup to prove your point for the team Steph had this year. dude was by almost every category and measure one of the worst in the entire league.

okay, well you're free to count him as a negative then and I still think the Warriors 4 is on paper more capable than the Lakers 4 I listed

also, Wiseman's gotten an unfair shake. rookies suck ass coming out of the gate all of the time and find their strides later. sampling the first half of a rookie's career in a pandemic season where they're likely not practicing as often is whack. Anthony Edwards looked like a bust too but look at him now. you've watched more Wiseman so I'll defer, but I think there was just an unfortunate combination of circumstances that makes him look like the worst player in the league, and he's clearly capable of way more in his first year

Wiseman looks like a future allstar with all kinds of potential. He also was the worst player in the nba this year who got meaningful minutes. The warriors are 10.2 points per 100 worse scoring when he's on the floor. Kobe didn't have anyone on his team who had such a negative impact on the team in 2006.

[clyde21]

I disagree, I believe Kerr is saying this for the media. The mere fact that they benched Wiseman, their young player with the most potential, instead of allowing him to play through his mistakes and the fact they are fighting for a play in game says otherwise.

lol, the only rooks that got more usage than Wiseman are Melo and Antman, otherwise Wiseman got >20 mins a night and on 24% usage, despite being overly destructive to this team every minute he was on the court.

Kerr abandoned his own scheme, at the expense of Steph and Dray, to get Wiseman looks to get him more comfortable...but it was pretty clear if we were to have a chance at the POs we couldn't do that anymore...that's how bad Wiseman was. just look at the On/Off numbers when Loon was on the floor vs. Wiseman.

EXACTLY, you are proving my point!!! It's winning over development for the GSW right now.

we have been doing both, that's the problem, that's why all On/Off numbers with Wiseman are brutal, because we tried to run way too much through Wiseman when he was on the court because he's a naturally terrible fit in our motion/freelance scheme.

you're not really making a point...in fact I would argue most rookies don't get the benefit of being groomed with guys like Steph/Dray/Klay while getting plenty of minutes and accommodations tailored specifically to them over and over again even after completely failing.

[Liam_Gallagher]

Curry has the better team but Wiseman shouldn't be listed as a positive player

True I guess, but c'mon, Mihm, Brown and Parker are listed as "positive" players on the other end.

[Warriors Analyst]

lol, the only rooks that got more usage than Wiseman are Melo and Antman, otherwise Wiseman got >20 mins a night and on 24% usage, despite being overly destructive to this team every minute he was on the court.

Kerr abandoned his own scheme, at the expense of Steph and Dray, to get Wiseman looks to get him more comfortable...but it was pretty clear if we were to have a chance at the POs we couldn't do that anymore...that's how bad Wiseman was. just look at the On/Off numbers when Loon was on the floor vs. Wiseman.

EXACTLY, you are proving my point!!! It's winning over development for the GSW right now.

we have been doing both, that's the problem, that's why all On/Off numbers with Wiseman are brutal, because we tried to run way too much through Wiseman when he was on the court because he's a naturally terrible fit in our motion/freelance scheme.

you're not really making a point...in fact I would argue most rookies don't get the benefit of being groomed with guys like Steph/Dray/Klay while getting plenty of minutes and accommodations tailored specifically to them over and over again even after completely failing.

I'm open to debate about how much of Wiseman's terrible play this year was on Kerr. When I ran the math, about 16% of his minutes came with two shooters (Poole, Curry, Lee, Mulder are who I consider shooters here -- Bazemore and Wiggins are both shooting far above their career averages on an easy diet of shots -- and even though Poole's numbers aren't great, he has a high volume of threes and they're running old Klay sets for him) on the court. That's ridiculous and coaching malpractice.

Wiseman shot 75% from restricted area and yet only 52% as the roll man on PNR, which would indicate that he took a lot of shots on the roll outside of the restricted area (paint non restricted FG% 33, for point of reference). I'm pretty damn sure the reason for that is that he played in lineups with poor spacing and teams were comfortable tagging him on the roll because they didn't give a damn about our non-shooters.

But with all that said, it's still remarkable that Wiseman got to play with one of the GOAT offensive players in NBA history and managed to put up a -8.1 net rating when the two of them were on the court together. Wiseman is one of three players in the Kerr era to have a negative rating in a two-man lineup with Steph on the court. Oubre and Varejao are the others. The only players who had worse net ratings than Wiseman had with Steph either played with rookie Steph or were out of the league the next season.

[Rainwater]

lol, the only rooks that got more usage than Wiseman are Melo and Antman, otherwise Wiseman got >20 mins a night and on 24% usage, despite being overly destructive to this team every minute he was on the court.

Kerr abandoned his own scheme, at the expense of Steph and Dray, to get Wiseman looks to get him more comfortable...but it was pretty clear if we were to have a chance at the POs we couldn't do that anymore...that's how bad Wiseman was. just look at the On/Off numbers when Loon was on the floor vs. Wiseman.

EXACTLY, you are proving my point!!! It's winning over development for the GSW right now.

we have been doing both, that's the problem, that's why all On/Off numbers with Wiseman are brutal, because we tried to run way too much through Wiseman when he was on the court because he's a naturally terrible fit in our motion/freelance scheme.

you're not really making a point...in fact I would argue most rookies don't get the benefit of being groomed with guys like Steph/Dray/Klay while getting plenty of minutes and accommodations tailored specifically to them over and over again even after completely failing.

You literally said that "to have a chance at the POs we couldn't do that anymore". And when said "do that" you meant play Wiseman heavy mins. When the Warriors benched Wiseman they choose to winning over development which was my point.

And yes, rookies in most cases rookies don't play with stars to avoid situations like the one GS is currently in. Unless the rookie is ready, with stars like Klay, Green or Curry teams typically don't have the patiences to develop rookies while they are trying to win.

[clyde21]

EXACTLY, you are proving my point!!! It's winning over development for the GSW right now.

we have been doing both, that's the problem, that's why all On/Off numbers with Wiseman are brutal, because we tried to run way too much through Wiseman when he was on the court because he's a naturally terrible fit in our motion/freelance scheme.

you're not really making a point...in fact I would argue most rookies don't get the benefit of being groomed with guys like Steph/Dray/Klay while getting plenty of minutes and accommodations tailored specifically to them over and over again even after completely failing.

You literally said that "to have a chance at the POs we couldn't do that anymore". And when said "do that" you meant play Wiseman heavy mins. When the Warriors benched Wiseman they choose to winning over development which was my point.

And yes, rookies in most cases rookies don't play with stars to avoid situations like the one GS is currently in. Unless the rookie is ready, with stars like Klay, Green or Curry teams typically don't have the patiences to develop rookies while they are trying to win.

you are arguing that Wiseman was in a terrible situation because the Warriors didn't completely abandon their entire offense and forget about Steph/Dray and just feed Wiseman inside the entire year? yea, ok.

[Jadoogar]

I really don't understand the Wiseman over Lamelo pick. I don't think centers should go in the top 5 anymore unless they're Jokic/Embiid level special, it's just easier to find serviceable centers elsewhere.

[Edrees]

Lakers would have beaten the Suns after going up 3-1 if you replace Smush Parker with Andrew Wiggins

[sikma42]

Lakers would have beaten the Suns after going up 3-1 if you replace Smush Parker with Andrew Wiggins

I will never forget that Lamar Odom missed rebound and that Tim Thomas 3 in game 6. Smh I really think Kobe could have dragged that team to the WCF

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[Rainwater]

we have been doing both, that's the problem, that's why all On/Off numbers with Wiseman are brutal, because we tried to run way too much through Wiseman when he was on the court because he's a naturally terrible fit in our motion/freelance scheme.

you're not really making a point...in fact I would argue most rookies don't get the benefit of being groomed with guys like Steph/Dray/Klay while getting plenty of minutes and accommodations tailored specifically to them over and over again even after completely failing.

You literally said that "to have a chance at the POs we couldn't do that anymore". And when said "do that" you meant play Wiseman heavy mins. When the Warriors benched Wiseman they choose to winning over development which was my point.

And yes, rookies in most cases rookies don't play with stars to avoid situations like the one GS is currently in. Unless the rookie is ready, with stars like Klay, Green or Curry teams typically don't have the patiences to develop rookies while they are trying to win.

you are arguing that Wiseman was in a terrible situation because the Warriors didn't completely abandon their entire offense and forget about Steph/Dray and just feed Wiseman inside the entire year? yea, ok.

No, the point of my argument is that the warriors choose winning over development which YOU literally stated. Stay on topic.

The twisting of words is quite funny.

[illuminati666]

Curry ofc has the better supporting cast. I dont think anyone in a vacuum is taking Odom/Kwame/Smush > Dray/Wiggins/Oubre.

But at the same time, Curry is playing in a much more competitive era of basketball, teams are all just better.

[illuminati666]

I really don't understand the Wiseman over Lamelo pick. I don't think centers should go in the top 5 anymore unless they're Jokic/Embiid level special, it's just easier to find serviceable centers elsewhere.

Meh, I think its more about how much you're willing to develop them. Centers take longer to hit their ceiling, my problem with the pick was with how raw Wiseman was and how desperately the Warriors needed help right now. I still don't understand why they didn't flip Wiggins+Pick for like Turner and Oladipo but they believed, Wiggins has actually stepped up, and you just gotta hope Wiseman fits way better into the system next year.

[cpower]

Lakers would have beaten the Suns after going up 3-1 if you replace Smush Parker with Andrew Wiggins

i hope you are joking...Lakers won 3 games but he only led the scoring once and Odom and Parker outscored him in 2 winning games

[Jadoogar]

I really don't understand the Wiseman over Lamelo pick. I don't think centers should go in the top 5 anymore unless they're Jokic/Embiid level special, it's just easier to find serviceable centers elsewhere.

Meh, I think its more about how much you're willing to develop them. Centers take longer to hit their ceiling, my problem with the pick was with how raw Wiseman was and how desperately the Warriors needed help right now. I still don't understand why they didn't flip Wiggins+Pick for like Turner and Oladipo but they believed, Wiggins has actually stepped up, and you just gotta hope Wiseman fits way better into the system next year.

Centers, even when good, are just less valuable. Ayton is a good player but if you did a redraft he goes 5? 6?

[Bornstellar]

Both teams are horrible outside of the main guys but the Dubs have more individual talent. But teams overall are probably more talented now so relative to the rest of the league when they played, Curry probably has a worse supporting cast if that makes sense

[Spintown]

Give Kobe Wiggins and he has his Pippen

Put Curry on those lakers and they are going for the number pick

[SpreeS]

The competition are on different level today, if we compare to 2006 season.

Memphis was 4th in 2006 with 49wins

L.Wright
Gasol
Battier
Jones 34y
Atkins

Now look at 4th place today

LAC with Kawhi/George/Ibaka/Rondo/Morris/Kennard/Beverly/Batum

POR/LAL/DAL one of these team will be in 7th place. 2006 LAL w/o Kobe were -8.0 netrtg, DAL w/o Doncic -1.3 Netrtg. These teams are totally from different levels. I dont talk about LAL/POR as 7th West team, b/c it isn’t comparable at all. Kobe with 2006 rooster level, would be lower than NOLA in these days.