Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2

[drsd]

Mo Wagner can play 3rd string center.

I do think Wagner has done enough for the Magic to offer him a contract next year. And if the Magic draft his brother, then one would think he would be inclined to sign.

[RookieStar]

Hollinger wrote a piece on Sengun and speculating he's 7-13 pick range. Worth the read if you got the athletic and he posts good video clips, Sengun is intriguing, to say the least.

Orlando needs a 3rd string C next year. But I see that more as the high SRP. If Şengün slides that low, then a hard yes on him for selection.


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Mo Wagner can play 3rd string center.

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Agree. No need to invest so much in the 3rd big. Wagner can handle the PF/C Birch role and be more effective offensively due to his 3pt range. IF we are in dire needs to need to play our 3rd C, then Mo can actually fit better with the 3pt-challenged JI in the front court.

[RookieStar]

yes sir....although i'm not too sure about the height...i do think it's intriguing that he's 18 and doing so well among grown men....i'm a big ignorant but i heard that the league he's playing in the level is pretty high right? I'm trying to get a gauge on his range, i'm thinking someone here should know a lot more about him and could give me a pretty good idea on his range....i hear 1st rounder but on the other side i look at some mock drafts and some of them have him second round...I'm thinking if he's a second rounder i wouldn't mind the draft-N-stash.....i'd rather that than us selling the pick again

Thats what non-NBA basketball fans say. "Supposedly" a top-notch league but I have no basis for comparison. They say he reminds then of D.Sabonis.. meaning lowpost footwork kind of guy and not relying on athelticism. I dunno how he can do that in the NBA where he will face up 7footers waaay stronger than him.

If someone just spouts off his general profile, you'd dismiss him without even giving a look, but he is well worth a good look.

Yes. He is around 6'9" and he plays exclusively as a five for his club team. They use him in the post and in drop coverage and he excels in that role. He leads the league in points scored. He is second in the league in rebounds. He is second in the league in blocks. He leads the league in eFG%. He is 2nd in the league in TS%. He is doing this as an 18 year old.

Yes. The Turkish league is a good league:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18470135/fran-fraschilla-rankings-world-top-12-basketball-leagues-nba

This can be a bit misleading though as foreign leagues can be very top heavy. He plays for a good club (Besiktas), but they aren't one of the league's premier clubs. Anadolu Efes is the top Turkish team and they just knocked out Real Madrid in the 1st round of the EuroLeague playoffs. They will face CSKA Moscow in the semifinals. Only the top two clubs from Turkey are in the EuroLeague, which is essentially the Champion's League of basketball. There are other international competitions for lower tiered teams, of which I believe Besiktas played in the third tier (FIBA Europe Cup)? Maybe someone that follows European basketball could tell you more. Anyway, he has played well in every competition and has even broken into the senior national team.

Besiktas started the season 0-6 in the Turkish Super League, but they are since 18-5. Sengun is averaging 19.2 ppg, 9.4 rpg, 2.5 apg, 1.3 spg, and 1.7 bpg with a TS% of .708. And keep in mind, there are far fewer possessions per game in European basketball games than there are in the NBA. 18-year-olds just don't do this.

He rubs, bangs, and grinds on opponents all game long. He isn't really ornery, but he might as well be. He annoys his opponents with his physicality. He isn't a great athlete, but he is mobile. He doesn't really shoot right now, but it should be a skill he has little problems developing as he takes and makes a lot of free throws. He's a very skilled low-post player. He has an array of moves. He's poised. He can pick out a pass. He can take someone down into the post and punish them.

The issue is going to be his versatility. If he can't share the floor with other bigs, then his value diminishes. I suspect he will be able to, though that hasn't been asked of him at all up to this point. I likened him to Sabonis because I think he is going to excel in whatever role he carves out, even if that isn't as a conventional five. Rony Seikaly is another possible comparison.

Watch on YouTube

What you just wrote... you just confirmed what I also posted right? lol

6'9 - check
below-the-rim type of Big - check
D.Sabonis comparison - check

The only reason I am dismissing him in the lotto-pick is because in the NBA I do not think he has the lateral quickness to play the PF and if you play him at C... that is not a position we should invest our draft capital on unless like the other poster said, we are trading away one of Mo/WCJ and need another body there.

[CPBalla2003 n da 863]

Y'all don't see Sengun playing the four? he could come off the bench back up Isaac and play with Mo. I like the kids game. With his experience playing Center, you can run a small ball lineup with him.

SN- I see a lot about of chatter his lateral quickness, the League have a slow-footed Euro in the running for MVP, not that i'm saying the kid can turn into that, the kid is worth a look, but I can see the Sabonis and Rony comparisons.

[RookieStar]

Y'all don't see Sengun playing the four? he could come off the bench back up Isaac and play with Mo. I like the kids game. With his experience playing Center, you can run a small ball lineup with him.

In this era? Nope.

The PFs of today are practically 90-2000s era SF moonlighting as PF. You have to have the lateral quickness to switch from the perimeter to the paint in defense. You have to have handles to drive the ball to the rim. Also, if you are a top-lotto pick, you better have perimeter game like the 3pt range.

I mean, this isnt popular but his game right now reminds me of Kanter. Thing is, Kanter is 6'11-ish. I dunno if Sengun can do what Kanter does being only 6'9 but with the same limitation Kanter has.

[The Effect]

Orlando needs a 3rd string C next year. But I see that more as the high SRP. If Şengün slides that low, then a hard yes on him for selection.


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Mo Wagner can play 3rd string center.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Agree. No need to invest so much in the 3rd big. Wagner can handle the PF/C Birch role and be more effective offensively due to his 3pt range. IF we are in dire needs to need to play our 3rd C, then Mo can actually fit better with the 3pt-challenged JI in the front court.

I do think Wagner has done enough for the Magic to offer him a contract next year. And if the Magic draft his brother, then one would think he would be inclined to sign.

i know hes put up some nice numbers for us, but am i the only one who doesnt really want Wagner back next year?

[CPBalla2003 n da 863]

Y'all don't see Sengun playing the four? he could come off the bench back up Isaac and play with Mo. I like the kids game. With his experience playing Center, you can run a small ball lineup with him.

In this era? Nope.

The PFs of today are practically 90-2000s era SF moonlighting as PF. You have to have the lateral quickness to switch from the perimeter to the paint in defense. You have to have handles to drive the ball to the rim. Also, if you are a top-lotto pick, you better have perimeter game like the 3pt range.

I mean, this isnt popular but his game right now reminds me of Kanter. Thing is, Kanter is 6'11-ish. I dunno if Sengun can do what Kanter does being only 6'9 but with the same limitation Kanter has.

If Cliff is still around, I'm sure he could help the kid play solid team defense. However, It's fair to worry about his defense on perimeter island when he gets a switch though. His PnP game makes me hopeful he'll be able to extend his range. I only want this kid if we get a top five pick and can get one of the guards, then I would take a shot at him. It also depends who is available at the Bulls pick as well.

[RookieStar]

Y'all don't see Sengun playing the four? he could come off the bench back up Isaac and play with Mo. I like the kids game. With his experience playing Center, you can run a small ball lineup with him.

In this era? Nope.

The PFs of today are practically 90-2000s era SF moonlighting as PF. You have to have the lateral quickness to switch from the perimeter to the paint in defense. You have to have handles to drive the ball to the rim. Also, if you are a top-lotto pick, you better have perimeter game like the 3pt range.

I mean, this isnt popular but his game right now reminds me of Kanter. Thing is, Kanter is 6'11-ish. I dunno if Sengun can do what Kanter does being only 6'9 but with the same limitation Kanter has.

If Cliff is still around, I'm sure he could help the kid play solid team defense. However, It's fair to worry about his defense on perimeter island when he gets a switch though. His PnP game makes me hopeful he'll be able to extend his range. I only want this kid if we get a top five pick and can get one of the guards, then I would take a shot at him. It also depends who is available at the Bulls pick as well.

Ah... well my dream scenario with the bulls pick is to draft a "full-upside not yet developed with remendous ceiling" kid with the bulls pick. Someone like Zaire, who cannot contribute in day 1 like a Cade or even a Bouknigt can BUT when developed and 2 years down would be like MPJ. I dont think Sengun fits my bill.

[RookieStar]

Mo Wagner can play 3rd string center.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Agree. No need to invest so much in the 3rd big. Wagner can handle the PF/C Birch role and be more effective offensively due to his 3pt range. IF we are in dire needs to need to play our 3rd C, then Mo can actually fit better with the 3pt-challenged JI in the front court.

I do think Wagner has done enough for the Magic to offer him a contract next year. And if the Magic draft his brother, then one would think he would be inclined to sign.

i know hes put up some nice numbers for us, but am i the only one who doesnt really want Wagner back next year?

Why not? Who in your mind is a better 3rd PF/C for us? Someone we rely on in emergencies?

[basketballRob]

Agree. No need to invest so much in the 3rd big. Wagner can handle the PF/C Birch role and be more effective offensively due to his 3pt range. IF we are in dire needs to need to play our 3rd C, then Mo can actually fit better with the 3pt-challenged JI in the front court.

I do think Wagner has done enough for the Magic to offer him a contract next year. And if the Magic draft his brother, then one would think he would be inclined to sign.

i know hes put up some nice numbers for us, but am i the only one who doesnt really want Wagner back next year?

Why not? Who in your mind is a better 3rd PF/C for us? Someone we rely on in emergencies?

I'm not sure what's wrong with Wagner either. He's better than Aminu or Clark, and a better PF than Birch.

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[Xatticus]

Just reading the Vecenie mock draft. Ziaire Williams going at 17, I still have him a lot higher, i guess he is a huge question mark. I don't know if we have the right assets, but I wouldn't mind moving into the mid first with some of the future draft capital we have and taking a swing on him.

We could go super young:
1. whoever is there
2. Moody or Mitchell (not young)
trade for 15ish: Ziaire
pick 32ish: BJ Boston

Throw the dice, and hope you hit, get as many wings as you can. Super young next year, probably means another decent lotto pick next season, and some of the guys are going to hit, and hopefully hit big. Maybe put Boston and Williams in the G league.

If Moody or Mitchell aren't there at the Chicago pick, maybe we trade back for Ziaire, I don't really like anybody that much after those two, and I am not 100% on mitchell.

Ziaire Williams is one that I'd avoid. He is the classic long, tall, smooth, and ineffectual prospect. They look great until you watch them play basketball and realize that none of their tools translate on the floor. I've seen almost no highlights of him at the rim. Only 24% of his field goal attempts came at the rim and he was very poor at finishing those (53%). If he can't get to the rim in college, it will never happen in the NBA. He has a very high turnover rate. He moves alright, but he pulls up at the first opportunity he gets to do so, which yields a lot of long, low-percentage shots. He's doing the defense's job for them. I've just learned over the years that this sort of prospect pretty much never pays off. He shouldn't be entering this year's draft and he wouldn't be getting any attention if he wasn't so highly regarded coming out of high school.

[RookieStar]

Just reading the Vecenie mock draft. Ziaire Williams going at 17, I still have him a lot higher, i guess he is a huge question mark. I don't know if we have the right assets, but I wouldn't mind moving into the mid first with some of the future draft capital we have and taking a swing on him.

We could go super young:
1. whoever is there
2. Moody or Mitchell (not young)
trade for 15ish: Ziaire
pick 32ish: BJ Boston

Throw the dice, and hope you hit, get as many wings as you can. Super young next year, probably means another decent lotto pick next season, and some of the guys are going to hit, and hopefully hit big. Maybe put Boston and Williams in the G league.

If Moody or Mitchell aren't there at the Chicago pick, maybe we trade back for Ziaire, I don't really like anybody that much after those two, and I am not 100% on mitchell.

Ziaire Williams is one that I'd avoid. He is the classic long, tall, smooth, and ineffectual prospect. They look great until you watch them play basketball and realize that none of their tools translate on the floor. I've seen almost no highlights of him at the rim. Only 24% of his field goal attempts came at the rim and he was very poor at finishing those (53%). If he can't get to the rim in college, it will never happen in the NBA. He has a very high turnover rate. He moves alright, but he pulls up at the first opportunity he gets to do so, which yields a lot of long, low-percentage shots. He's doing the defense's job for them. I've just learned over the years that this sort of prospect pretty much never pays off. He shouldn't be entering this year's draft and he wouldn't be getting any attention if he wasn't so highly regarded coming out of high school.

High risk high reward guy. Like i said in previous post, I compare his situation like MPJ.

Zaire had the hype coming in and it reflected on his draft status. Then he had that accident which sidelined him at the beginnine of the season... then he had that death in the family which again set him back.. then covid protocol and stuff..

So like MPJ we never got to see him flourish vuz he wasnt given the chance. However if we have the 14/15 pick, Im rolling the dice on him with our CHI pick.

[The Effect]

i know hes put up some nice numbers for us, but am i the only one who doesnt really want Wagner back next year?

Why not? Who in your mind is a better 3rd PF/C for us? Someone we rely on in emergencies?

I'm not sure what's wrong with Wagner either. He's better than Aminu or Clark, and a better PF than Birch.

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I dont know, i just dont like his game

[RookieStar]

Why not? Who in your mind is a better 3rd PF/C for us? Someone we rely on in emergencies?

I'm not sure what's wrong with Wagner either. He's better than Aminu or Clark, and a better PF than Birch.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

I dont know, i just dont like his game

For a 3rd big, what game are you looking for? More of a Birch? undersized but crazy atheltic no O all D effort?

[drsd]

Agree. No need to invest so much in the 3rd big.

How is the SRP an investment? There is literally no cheaper contract in the NBA.


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[drsd]

i know hes put up some nice numbers for us, but am i the only one who doesnt really want Wagner back next year?

Who do you want as the next Khem Birch? As this is the draft thread, are you thinking a Drew Timme-type with the SRP?


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[drsd]

For a 3rd big, what game are you looking for? More of a Birch? undersized but crazy atheltic no O all D effort?

If he slides to the second round, Şengün could be exactly the kind of 3rd stringer Orlando could develop.

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[jvdas]

For a 3rd big, what game are you looking for? More of a Birch? undersized but crazy atheltic no O all D effort?

If he slides to the second round, Şengün could be exactly the kind of 3rd stringer Orlando could develop.

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There is no way Şengün drops to the second round, I think he is a safe lottery pick. Still don't see him on our team with the logjam at C. And for a PF he lacks the speed and athleticism based on the highlight videos you can watch.

[drsd]

There is no way Şengün drops to the second round, I think he is a safe lottery pick. Still don't see him on our team with the logjam at C. And for a PF he lacks the speed and athleticism based on the highlight videos you can watch.

Şengün with the Bulls pick would be a poor outcome for me. He does not fit team needs and there are more clear-cut options available. Even if Moody does not slide, I would muckiest rather see Keon Johnson, Corey Kispert, or Franz Wagner in Magic blue over Şengün.

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[zaymon]

There is no way Şengün drops to the second round, I think he is a safe lottery pick. Still don't see him on our team with the logjam at C. And for a PF he lacks the speed and athleticism based on the highlight videos you can watch.

Şengün with the Bulls pick would be a poor outcome for me. He does not fit team needs and there are more clear-cut options available. Even if Moody does not slide, I would muckiest rather see Keon Johnson, Corey Kispert, or Franz Wagner in Magic blue over Şengün.

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Good roller can make your offense. Even if he is Harrell thats a great outcome for mid lottery pick. 6'9 instead of 6'7, better defender, much better passer, better rebounder and better shooter. Can solidify a bench unit for years.