NBA MVP Discussion '20-'21, Part 2 (Poll created 21 March '21)

[dygaction]

The overrating of Gobert is ridiculous

I am a Sixers and Simmons fan

Simmons has a legitimate case for being DPOY but may not win

He’s clearly better than Gobert in every aspect of basketball other than defence BUT he’s also clearly not a MVP candidate

Simmons isn’t top 15

Same as Rudy

So I gotta say:

I'm seeing a lot of people talk in this direction and to me it seems like it's based on an approach that just ignores actual impact.

I don't think you're crazy if you think Simmons more well-rounded defense (let alone more well-rounded game) is preferable for team building, but in terms of the season's DPOY, I'm not aware of any impact metric that doesn't put Gobert way, way ahead of Simmons.

You cannot ignore position difference either. Every team nowadays can afford to have only one player on the court not to have a long range shot. As a PG, Simmons not being able to shoot is a glaring deficiency that can be exploited a lot, basically making him outside of top 5 in that position. As a center, it would be great if Gobert can shoot, but it is ok to just be able to finish inside.

[clyde21]

If I were Jokic, I would be wearing a shirt with Putin's face on it, only to piss these clowns off.

piss them off? they would melt into ash live on TV

ESPN is dead...why anyone cares what these clown cars say or do boggles my mind.

[Tomjas]

The overrating of Gobert is ridiculous

I am a Sixers and Simmons fan

Simmons has a legitimate case for being DPOY but may not win

He’s clearly better than Gobert in every aspect of basketball other than defence BUT he’s also clearly not a MVP candidate

Simmons isn’t top 15

Same as Rudy

So I gotta say:

I'm seeing a lot of people talk in this direction and to me it seems like it's based on an approach that just ignores actual impact.

I don't think you're crazy if you think Simmons more well-rounded defense (let alone more well-rounded game) is preferable for team building, but in terms of the season's DPOY, I'm not aware of any impact metric that doesn't put Gobert way, way ahead of Simmons.

You cannot ignore position difference either. Every team nowadays can afford to have only one player on the court not to have a long range shot. As a PG, Simmons not being able to shoot is a glaring deficiency that can be exploited a lot, basically making him outside of top 5 in that position. As a center, it would be great if Gobert can shoot, but it is ok to just be able to finish inside.

Roster construction dependent

Last year’s Sixers were totally dysfunctional as too many needed to occupy same spots so spacing was non existent

This year’s is totally different

[dygaction]

Time to restart the thread and vote for #2, that would be more interesting.

[stormi]

Joker ran away with this one. And well deserved. He's been phenomenal all year.

[mdonnelly1989]

Time to restart the thread and vote for #2, that would be more interesting.

I say let's wait and see how the regular season wraps up including the play in games.

I have a feeling it's neck and neck right now between Jokic and Curry who have been the most healthy of all season the candidates.

If I'm correct and it's close between Curry and Jokic.

Curry being able to get the Warriors a playoff spot can possibly spring him past Jokic.

[FinnTheHuman]

Time to restart the thread and vote for #2, that would be more interesting.

I say let's wait and see how the regular season wraps up including the play in games.

I have a feeling it's neck and neck right now between Jokic and Curry who have been the most healthy of all season the candidates.

If I'm correct and it's close between Curry and Jokic.

Curry being able to get the Warriors a playoff spot can possibly spring him past Jokic.

You are not correct sir, it's not close between Jokic and Curry, Jokic has already won. He could miss all the remaining games and it's still 100% his, that's how much ahead he is.

[Sir Psycho Sexy]

Soon, you'll start losing money by betting on Jokic

[Johnny Tomala]

Soon, you'll start losing money by betting on Jokic

Yup. He's a freak of nature
But we love him so
He's a freak of nature
But we let him go

[Alatan]

Watch on YouTube

;ab_channel=JJRedick

[jokeboy86]

I do wonder is there some reluctance by the national tv heads to give Jokic MVP because of how much a lot of them love Melo. If Jokic wins MVP he essentially eclipses Melo's entire Nuggets career and depending on how any future playoff runs go he may eclipse Melo's entire NBA career. Melo was a great player and prolific scorer but his team success has a lot to be desired. He's got 2 seasons when teams he's led have gotten out of the 1st round. Jokic already has equaled that. It pains a lot of these national tv heads to say any European guy is better than the american guys they know and love. Jokic winning the MVP at 26 (in Denver no less) would force them to have to put him over a lot of players who've gotten a lot more hype and buzz.

The one thing I'll say is the players and coaches themselves have openly acknowledged just how good he is. You don't hear guys around the league dismiss Jokic like a lot of them were(and still) dismiss Giannis's game.

[Ballerhogger]

Jokic has is in the bag .

[Doctor MJ]

I do wonder is there some reluctance by the national tv heads to give Jokic MVP because of how much a lot of them love Melo. If Jokic wins MVP he essentially eclipses Melo's entire Nuggets career and depending on how any future playoff runs go he may eclipse Melo's entire NBA career. Melo was a great player and prolific scorer but his team success has a lot to be desired. He's got 2 seasons when teams he's led have gotten out of the 1st round. Jokic already has equaled that. It pains a lot of these national tv heads to say any European guy is better than the american guys they know and love. Jokic winning the MVP at 26 (in Denver no less) would force them to have to put him over a lot of players who've gotten a lot more hype and buzz.

The one thing I'll say is the players and coaches themselves have openly acknowledged just how good he is. You don't hear guys around the league dismiss Jokic like a lot of them were(and still) dismiss Giannis's game.

I'll note that Melo only got out of the first round once as a Nugget, so in a very real sense, Jokic had eclipsed Melo as a Nugget before this season.

We're approach the point now where even discussing how to retire their respective numbers is an insult. Melo shouldn't have his Nuggets jersey retired. #15 belongs to Cookie Monster.

All that said, I think the overrating of Melo and underrating of Jokic isn't really about their relationship. Melo's the type of player non-analytical basketball fans assume is better than he is, Jokic's the type they assume is worse than he is.

[Johnny Tomala]

I do wonder is there some reluctance by the national tv heads to give Jokic MVP because of how much a lot of them love Melo. If Jokic wins MVP he essentially eclipses Melo's entire Nuggets career and depending on how any future playoff runs go he may eclipse Melo's entire NBA career. Melo was a great player and prolific scorer but his team success has a lot to be desired. He's got 2 seasons when teams he's led have gotten out of the 1st round. Jokic already has equaled that. It pains a lot of these national tv heads to say any European guy is better than the american guys they know and love. Jokic winning the MVP at 26 (in Denver no less) would force them to have to put him over a lot of players who've gotten a lot more hype and buzz.

The one thing I'll say is the players and coaches themselves have openly acknowledged just how good he is. You don't hear guys around the league dismiss Jokic like a lot of them were(and still) dismiss Giannis's game.

I'll note that Melo only got out of the first round once as a Nugget, so in a very real sense, Jokic had eclipsed Melo as a Nugget before this season.

We're approach the point now where even discussing how to retire their respective numbers is an insult. Melo shouldn't have his Nuggets jersey retired. #15 belongs to Cookie Monster.

All that said, I think the overrating of Melo and underrating of Jokic isn't really about their relationship. Melo's the type of player non-analytical basketball fans assume is better than he is, Jokic's the type they assume is worse than he is.

Nah, 2009 Nuggets took Lakers to 6 games and should have won a series TBH (they were superior in Games 1 and 3 that they lost due to stupid inbounds). 2020 Nuggets lost to Lakers in 5. Jokic needs to win 2 games in WCF to eclipse Melo's Nuggets career.

[NY 567]

1. Jokic
2. CP3
3. Embiid
4. Doncic
5. Giannis

I have a feeling that their is going to be a big push to give CP3 the MVP. Don't get me wrong, Paul is awesome, is one of my favorite players, and seeing a 36 year old Chris Paul win MVP after being written off as a top player for years would be incredible. But Jokic is the clear MVP and him not winning would be highway robbery.

[therealbig3]

1. Jokic
2. CP3
3. Embiid
4. Doncic
5. Giannis

I have a feeling that their is going to be a big push to give CP3 the MVP. Don't get me wrong, Paul is awesome, is one of my favorite players, and seeing a 36 year old Chris Paul win MVP after being written off as a top player for years would be incredible. But Jokic is the clear MVP and him not winning would be highway robbery.

I agree with this top 5, with Jokic as a clear #1. I would drop Embiid though. I know the Sixers have been great, and he’s been awesome, but he’s just missed way too much time.

[Doctor MJ]

I do wonder is there some reluctance by the national tv heads to give Jokic MVP because of how much a lot of them love Melo. If Jokic wins MVP he essentially eclipses Melo's entire Nuggets career and depending on how any future playoff runs go he may eclipse Melo's entire NBA career. Melo was a great player and prolific scorer but his team success has a lot to be desired. He's got 2 seasons when teams he's led have gotten out of the 1st round. Jokic already has equaled that. It pains a lot of these national tv heads to say any European guy is better than the american guys they know and love. Jokic winning the MVP at 26 (in Denver no less) would force them to have to put him over a lot of players who've gotten a lot more hype and buzz.

The one thing I'll say is the players and coaches themselves have openly acknowledged just how good he is. You don't hear guys around the league dismiss Jokic like a lot of them were(and still) dismiss Giannis's game.

I'll note that Melo only got out of the first round once as a Nugget, so in a very real sense, Jokic had eclipsed Melo as a Nugget before this season.

We're approach the point now where even discussing how to retire their respective numbers is an insult. Melo shouldn't have his Nuggets jersey retired. #15 belongs to Cookie Monster.

All that said, I think the overrating of Melo and underrating of Jokic isn't really about their relationship. Melo's the type of player non-analytical basketball fans assume is better than he is, Jokic's the type they assume is worse than he is.

Nah, 2009 Nuggets took Lakers to 6 games and should have won a series TBH (they were superior in Games 1 and 3 that they lost due to stupid inbounds). 2020 Nuggets lost to Lakers in 5. Jokic needs to win 2 games in WCF to eclipse Melo's Nuggets career.

I'll note that you didn't actually respond to my point. I said that Jokic has won more series for the Nuggets Melo ever did, and that's the truth. 3 to 2. Not saying that ends all arguments, but it's something.

To the point of Melo's Nuggets should have won the series. Nah. Remember that the Lakers let the Rockets take them to 7 in the previous series. There was never a point in either series where anyone thought the Lakers were seriously threatened.

[mdonnelly1989]

Time to restart the thread and vote for #2, that would be more interesting.

I say let's wait and see how the regular season wraps up including the play in games.

I have a feeling it's neck and neck right now between Jokic and Curry who have been the most healthy of all season the candidates.

If I'm correct and it's close between Curry and Jokic.

Curry being able to get the Warriors a playoff spot can possibly spring him past Jokic.

You are not correct sir, it's not close between Jokic and Curry, Jokic has already won. He could miss all the remaining games and it's still 100% his, that's how much ahead he is.

I see. Perhaps I'm mistaken then.

[Amare_1_Knicks]

1. Jokic
2. CP3
3. Embiid
4. Doncic
5. Giannis

I have a feeling that their is going to be a big push to give CP3 the MVP. Don't get me wrong, Paul is awesome, is one of my favorite players, and seeing a 36 year old Chris Paul win MVP after being written off as a top player for years would be incredible. But Jokic is the clear MVP and him not winning would be highway robbery.

I agree with this top 5, with Jokic as a clear #1. I would drop Embiid though. I know the Sixers have been great, and he’s been awesome, but he’s just missed way too much time.

I can see Jokic being in the lead right now, but surely Giannis has to be closer to 1st than 5th, right? 28/11/6/1/1, with the obvious two way impact. MIL is 43-24 (2nd in the East), DEN 44-23 (4th in the West).

Voter fatigue aside, I think Giannis has a more legitimate case than he’s been being given credit for this season.

[jazzed77]

I'm not sure how anyone could have a better case than joking, he's simply been amazing this year. I thought for sure they were done when Murray went out but they kept rolling. I have Embiid a close second and then Curry...just my .02