2021 Draft thread. Woo! 15th pick here we come! Hoo. Ray.

[Ruzious]

drafting in the mid-first, i think we draft for need rather than talent unless somebody freefalls for a bizarre reason and we need a wing in the worst way.

Jalen Johnson opted out of duke and declared and looks to be getting dinged for it. that can be our gain.

Marcus Bagley (Marvin Bagley's brother) declared out of FSU and nbadraft has him projected as a second rounder. he's also in the transfer portal and is getting interest(Kentucky) there as well.

neither guy has a lot of college tape (between Johnson opting out and Bagley getting injured) but are young enough and with enough pedigree that i don't think dissecting tape would really change the calculus.

The Wiz under Tommy seem to be interested only in boy scout types - which doesn't fit Jalen Johnson - who made an enemy of Coach K. Hopefully, Bagley goes back to school - seems like he does have some potential, but he's a long way away.

[payitforward]

drafting in the mid-first, i think we draft for need rather than talent....

No please. Absolutely never. Just do a good job of finding the BPA, & if you don't think that guy is good enough -- has enough separation from a bunch of guys below him -- then trade down for multiple picks.

[Ruzious]

At 10-14 I'm on board for Wagner. Davion Mitchell. Giddey. Sure why not. Shrug.

I'd rather trade down for Filip Petrusev and pick up later/future picks. Rim runner with swiftly developing outside shot, and the complete game of the Serbian talent development academies.

Not sure I'd call Petrusev a rim runner. I haven't seen him since Gonzaga - where he seemed a lot like Timme to me - a very skilled scorer who's not quick enough to play forward - not surprising that he's developed a good 3ball. There's definitely a role for him in the NBA as a stretch 5. I gotta watch more recent video on him. Queta would be a fun get - a unique set of skills and abilities.

Watch on YouTube

If you watch he has a level of athleticism at this level way beyond the competition. In Euroball at least he gets his points flying up the court and dunking, catching lobs to flush it. He won't be able to dunk in traffic as easily at the NBA level, but he runs like a wolfhound, long effortless strides, he for sure can get behind the defense to catch and finish. You can tell he is building strength and adding to his game. Even at 18 in Gonzaga though he showed flashes of that Andre Kirilenko type of complete game (okay minus otherworldly defense).

Watch on YouTube

This guy has a role in the NBA. Developing quickly enough that he looks like he could be a starter on a winning team in his career. Utah, Indiana, the Spurs would snatch him in an instant

Ok, the more I look at post-Gonzaga Petrusev, the more I like. He looks like he got the body fat % down and got in great shape - much like Sabonis did. In fact, their Zag stats in both frosh and soph years almost mirror each other - though Sabonis gets the nod in rebounding - he was a freakishly good rebounder. I think Sabonis is still the better athlete, but Petrusev added the 3 point shot that Sabonis hasn't. If Petrusev can switch equally between PF and C, that would make him very attractive for the Wiz - especially if they're relying on the combo of Bryant and Gafford at C - with both being injury questionmarks. I think he gets the nod over Sengun because of his ability to run the court and being more NBA ready. Both will score in the NBA.

[DCZards]

drafting in the mid-first, i think we draft for need rather than talent unless somebody freefalls for a bizarre reason and we need a wing in the worst way.

Jalen Johnson opted out of duke and declared and looks to be getting dinged for it. that can be our gain.

Marcus Bagley (Marvin Bagley's brother) declared out of FSU and nbadraft has him projected as a second rounder. he's also in the transfer portal and is getting interest(Kentucky) there as well.

neither guy has a lot of college tape (between Johnson opting out and Bagley getting injured) but are young enough and with enough pedigree that i don't think dissecting tape would really change the calculus.

The Wiz under Tommy seem to be interested only in boy scout types - which doesn't fit Jalen Johnson - who made an enemy of Coach K. Hopefully, Bagley goes back to school - seems like he does have some potential, but he's a long way away.

I haven’t read or seen anything that suggests that Coach K and Jalen Johnson had any real issues.

And even if they did have issues. So what? Coach K is not without his flaws.

From what I’ve read, Johnson comes from a solid family background. I’d put more stock in that than the few months he spent with Coach K.

Here’s an interesting take on Johnson from a writer for SBNATION.

Pundits branding Johnson with the “quitter” moniker are intentionally ignoring the nuance of the situation. A talented player, who took to the court in a middle of a global pandemic, playing on an objectively terrible Duke team, decided it was in his best interest to prepare for the next level.

There was never much nobility in the idea of trying to carry a disappointing Blue Devils to the NCAA Tournament in a trying season for everyone involved. Instead, Johnson prioritized his own health, safety, and future by using his time to train for the draft rather than finish out a lost season.

In a sport that so often shows a lack of care for athletes, Johnson decided to take care of himself — and people are mad.

https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-basketball/2021/2/16/22285449/jalen-johnson-duke-leave-nba-draft-2021

[Dat2U]

drafting in the mid-first, i think we draft for need rather than talent unless somebody freefalls for a bizarre reason and we need a wing in the worst way.

Jalen Johnson opted out of duke and declared and looks to be getting dinged for it. that can be our gain.

Marcus Bagley (Marvin Bagley's brother) declared out of FSU and nbadraft has him projected as a second rounder. he's also in the transfer portal and is getting interest(Kentucky) there as well.

neither guy has a lot of college tape (between Johnson opting out and Bagley getting injured) but are young enough and with enough pedigree that i don't think dissecting tape would really change the calculus.

The Wiz under Tommy seem to be interested only in boy scout types - which doesn't fit Jalen Johnson - who made an enemy of Coach K. Hopefully, Bagley goes back to school - seems like he does have some potential, but he's a long way away.

I haven’t read or seen anything that suggests that Coach K and Jalen Johnson had any real issues.

And even if they did have issues. So what? Coach K is not without his flaws.

From what I’ve read, Johnson comes from a solid family background. I’d put more stock in that than the few months he spent with Coach K.

Here’s an interesting take on Johnson from a writer for SBNATION.

Pundits branding Johnson with the “quitter” moniker are intentionally ignoring the nuance of the situation. A talented player, who took to the court in a middle of a global pandemic, playing on an objectively terrible Duke team, decided it was in his best interest to prepare for the next level.

There was never much nobility in the idea of trying to carry a disappointing Blue Devils to the NCAA Tournament in a trying season for everyone involved. Instead, Johnson prioritized his own health, safety, and future by using his time to train for the draft rather than finish out a lost season.

In a sport that so often shows a lack of care for athletes, Johnson decided to take care of himself — and people are mad.

https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-basketball/2021/2/16/22285449/jalen-johnson-duke-leave-nba-draft-2021

At 15, I'd probably gamble on the upside of Johnson depending on how he interviews & the jump shot looks in workouts.

[doclinkin]

The Wiz under Tommy seem to be interested only in boy scout types - which doesn't fit Jalen Johnson - who made an enemy of Coach K. Hopefully, Bagley goes back to school - seems like he does have some potential, but he's a long way away.

I haven’t read or seen anything that suggests that Coach K and Jalen Johnson had any real issues.

And even if they did have issues. So what? Coach K is not without his flaws.

From what I’ve read, Johnson comes from a solid family background. I’d put more stock in that than the few months he spent with Coach K.

Here’s an interesting take on Johnson from a writer for SBNATION.

Pundits branding Johnson with the “quitter” moniker are intentionally ignoring the nuance of the situation. A talented player, who took to the court in a middle of a global pandemic, playing on an objectively terrible Duke team, decided it was in his best interest to prepare for the next level.

There was never much nobility in the idea of trying to carry a disappointing Blue Devils to the NCAA Tournament in a trying season for everyone involved. Instead, Johnson prioritized his own health, safety, and future by using his time to train for the draft rather than finish out a lost season.

In a sport that so often shows a lack of care for athletes, Johnson decided to take care of himself — and people are mad.

https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-basketball/2021/2/16/22285449/jalen-johnson-duke-leave-nba-draft-2021

At 15, I'd probably gamble on the upside of Johnson depending on how he interviews & the jump shot looks in workouts.

The mocks I see have him taken before our (current) pic. He will measure well and has had a few months to drill the skills he will need for the combine and workouts. Teams may badmouth him trying to knock him down a bit but I don't know that it works. If he falls to us then I'm fine with that. In limited tape he seems like he takes defense seriously and has the requisite athleticism for a swing forward. Yeah like anyone if his jumper has good range and consistency then he will be a more useful player. But the foundation is there.

[Ruzious]

drafting in the mid-first, i think we draft for need rather than talent unless somebody freefalls for a bizarre reason and we need a wing in the worst way.

Jalen Johnson opted out of duke and declared and looks to be getting dinged for it. that can be our gain.

Marcus Bagley (Marvin Bagley's brother) declared out of FSU and nbadraft has him projected as a second rounder. he's also in the transfer portal and is getting interest(Kentucky) there as well.

neither guy has a lot of college tape (between Johnson opting out and Bagley getting injured) but are young enough and with enough pedigree that i don't think dissecting tape would really change the calculus.

The Wiz under Tommy seem to be interested only in boy scout types - which doesn't fit Jalen Johnson - who made an enemy of Coach K. Hopefully, Bagley goes back to school - seems like he does have some potential, but he's a long way away.

I haven’t read or seen anything that suggests that Coach K and Jalen Johnson had any real issues.

And even if they did have issues. So what? Coach K is not without his flaws.

From what I’ve read, Johnson comes from a solid family background. I’d put more stock in that than the few months he spent with Coach K.

Here’s an interesting take on Johnson from a writer for SBNATION.

Pundits branding Johnson with the “quitter” moniker are intentionally ignoring the nuance of the situation. A talented player, who took to the court in a middle of a global pandemic, playing on an objectively terrible Duke team, decided it was in his best interest to prepare for the next level.

There was never much nobility in the idea of trying to carry a disappointing Blue Devils to the NCAA Tournament in a trying season for everyone involved. Instead, Johnson prioritized his own health, safety, and future by using his time to train for the draft rather than finish out a lost season.

In a sport that so often shows a lack of care for athletes, Johnson decided to take care of himself — and people are mad.

https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-basketball/2021/2/16/22285449/jalen-johnson-duke-leave-nba-draft-2021

Hold on a sec - you act like I called him a rotten kid, and I didn't. I just said it doesn't look like he's a boy scout. There were some issues talked about at Duke all season - particularly when he got benched, and then he left the team. Granted, Coach K said he was perfectly fine with that - which is probably every article that you looked at. He also played for 4 different HS's. And as talented as he is, he played all of 2 good games all season. To me, that means there's possibly a problem. That does NOT mean I think his parents brought him up wrong... And here's an article indicating a problem that took 5 seconds to find. https://balldurham.com/2020/12/08/duke-basketball-mind-games-jalen-johnson/4/

[DCZards]

The Wiz under Tommy seem to be interested only in boy scout types - which doesn't fit Jalen Johnson - who made an enemy of Coach K. Hopefully, Bagley goes back to school - seems like he does have some potential, but he's a long way away.

I haven’t read or seen anything that suggests that Coach K and Jalen Johnson had any real issues.

And even if they did have issues. So what? Coach K is not without his flaws.

From what I’ve read, Johnson comes from a solid family background. I’d put more stock in that than the few months he spent with Coach K.

Here’s an interesting take on Johnson from a writer for SBNATION.

Pundits branding Johnson with the “quitter” moniker are intentionally ignoring the nuance of the situation. A talented player, who took to the court in a middle of a global pandemic, playing on an objectively terrible Duke team, decided it was in his best interest to prepare for the next level.

There was never much nobility in the idea of trying to carry a disappointing Blue Devils to the NCAA Tournament in a trying season for everyone involved. Instead, Johnson prioritized his own health, safety, and future by using his time to train for the draft rather than finish out a lost season.

In a sport that so often shows a lack of care for athletes, Johnson decided to take care of himself — and people are mad.

https://www.sbnation.com/platform/amp/college-basketball/2021/2/16/22285449/jalen-johnson-duke-leave-nba-draft-2021

Hold on a sec - you act like I called him a rotten kid, and I didn't. I just said it doesn't look like he's a boy scout. There were some issues talked about at Duke all season - particularly when he got benched, and then he left the team. Granted, Coach K said he was perfectly fine with that - which is probably every article that you looked at. He also played for 4 different HS's. And as talented as he is, he played all of 2 good games all season. To me, that means there's possibly a problem. That does NOT mean I think his parents brought him up wrong... And here's an article indicating a problem that took 5 seconds to find. https://balldurham.com/2020/12/08/duke-basketball-mind-games-jalen-johnson/4/

My bad, ruz. Didn't mean to suggest that you were labeling Johnson a rotten kid. Sorry if it came off the way.

The article in the link you posted doesn't suggest that Coach K was having a problem with Jalen...other than Coach K thought he was playing "soft." That's not the kind of "problem" we've been discussing.

Fit wise Jalen Johnson would seem to not be what the Zards need...given that both he, Rui and Deni all play pretty much the same position (PF). But if the Zards are drafting in the 12-15 range and Johnson is available he'd be hard to pass up. He's a top 10 talent in this draft.

[Ruzious]

No doubt he's a legit talent, but again - 2 good games all season is a huge red flag.

[Ruzious]

So going back to Petrusev, why can't he become in the same tier as Sabonis? Granted Sabonis is a better rebounder, but other than that... why can't Petrusev be a good player as a rookie and eventually a quality NBA starter? Looking at their 2 seasons each of Gonzaga stats, Petrusev was almost a carbon copy, and since then - Petrusev developed a 3 point shot.

[NatP4]

So going back to Petrusev, why can't he become in the same tier as Sabonis? Granted Sabonis is a better rebounder, but other than that... why can't Petrusev be a good player as a rookie and eventually a quality NBA starter? Looking at their 2 seasons each of Gonzaga stats, Petrusev was almost a carbon copy, and since then - Petrusev developed a 3 point shot.

I have been onboard all year long. Petrusev is going to be a good NBA player. Flying way under the radar.

[NatP4]

No doubt he's a legit talent, but again - 2 good games all season is a huge red flag.

The quitting on teams and getting benched is a yellow flag to me.

The awful play on the court is the red flag for me. He doesn’t help his team win.

[NatP4]

So where are we predicted to land at this point and who do yall like for the slots?

At 12ish, it’s Wagner, Giddey, or a trade down for me. I like the same names as others in a trade down scenario: Butler, Queta, Duarte, Ayayi.

I just think that Wagner is a perfect fit and going to end up as the 3rd of 4th best player in the draft. Love Giddey but the fit isn’t as good as Wagner.

[Ruzious]

If I can, I convert our pick (11th?) and Bryant into Butler, Petrusev and Bassey, though I'll settle for Queta if Bassey's taken. I'd like to get Duarte, too - if we don't keep Mathews.

[Illuminaire]

If Wagner is there in the early teens, he really is a perfect fit for the Wiz roster. He can play from day 1 with tough defense, adequate rebounding, and savvy passing.

I'm not sure his shot will be there in his rookie year, but hit FT% is very good and he did improve a few percent from his rookie to sophomore year - and if people sag off him, he can drive and finish, or dish if the defense collapses. He's not a self check.

[doclinkin]

So going back to Petrusev, why can't he become in the same tier as Sabonis? Granted Sabonis is a better rebounder, but other than that... why can't Petrusev be a good player as a rookie and eventually a quality NBA starter? Looking at their 2 seasons each of Gonzaga stats, Petrusev was almost a carbon copy, and since then - Petrusev developed a 3 point shot.

He quit Gonzaga to go to the same Serbian team that Jokic and a handful of other Serbian NBAers came up in. Says it was the right decision because they play one game a week and spend the rest of the time in the gym or drilling skills work.

[queridiculo]

So going back to Petrusev, why can't he become in the same tier as Sabonis? Granted Sabonis is a better rebounder, but other than that... why can't Petrusev be a good player as a rookie and eventually a quality NBA starter? Looking at their 2 seasons each of Gonzaga stats, Petrusev was almost a carbon copy, and since then - Petrusev developed a 3 point shot.

He quit Gonzaga to go to the same Serbian team that Jokic and a handful of other Serbian NBAers came up in. Says it was the right decision because they play one game a week and spend the rest of the time in the gym or drilling skills work.

The argument for college hoops is harder and harder to make.

Sure, there's the college experience, the chance at a quality education, parties, girls, lifelong friendships, etc. but seriously, how valuable are freshmen classes for somebody that's pursuing the grind to cut it in the pros?

College athlete schedules and obligations are insane, and I think there's a place for it and serious value under certain circumstances, but for somebody with a legit shot at a lengthy career in professional basketball keeping up appearances of amateurism makes absolutely no sense.

[Dat2U]

drafting in the mid-first, i think we draft for need rather than talent unless somebody freefalls for a bizarre reason and we need a wing in the worst way.

Jalen Johnson opted out of duke and declared and looks to be getting dinged for it. that can be our gain.

Marcus Bagley (Marvin Bagley's brother) declared out of FSU and nbadraft has him projected as a second rounder. he's also in the transfer portal and is getting interest(Kentucky) there as well.

neither guy has a lot of college tape (between Johnson opting out and Bagley getting injured) but are young enough and with enough pedigree that i don't think dissecting tape would really change the calculus.

The Wiz under Tommy seem to be interested only in boy scout types - which doesn't fit Jalen Johnson - who made an enemy of Coach K. Hopefully, Bagley goes back to school - seems like he does have some potential, but he's a long way away.

Tommy in the first round looks for the best combination of athleticism & basketball character in his opinion. The difference b/w him and Grunfeld is while they both love the measurables and athleticism of player, Tommy is much more considerate of player's makeup and love for the game. Are they a gym rat? Will they apply what they're being thought?

He doesn't seem to get caught up in the skillset or fit. He likely believes the right type of draftee can be molded by their player development process.

[Hibachi_0]

If Garuba falls to the 10-15 range I would pick him over Jalen Johnson or Wagner without many doubts. His rebounding instincts and defense are already elite in Euroleague basketball and while his shot is not quick or perfect in form it looks more fluid than what it used to. This season his offensive usage has noticeably increased with Campazzo and now Deck leaving for the NBA. Pairing him with Rui in a small ball lineup could be really fun to watch.

[Ruzious]

If Garuba falls to the 10-15 range I would pick him over Jalen Johnson or Wagner without many doubts. His rebounding instincts and defense are already elite in Euroleague basketball and while his shot is not quick or perfect in form it looks more fluid than what it used to. This season his offensive usage has noticeably increased with Campazzo and now Deck leaving for the NBA. Pairing him with Rui in a small ball lineup could be really fun to watch.

Granted, he's played against good competition, but his offensive #'s aren't very good - doesn't score much, has more to's than assists, not a good 3 point shooter, 59% FTer, solid rebounder and shot-blocker - but nothing special. Is he big enough to defend NBA centers?