Draft Thread Part 2

[Indeed]

I can't get in on Sengun. I can't see him being anything other than a 5 in the NBA but he's just too small.

A scenario I would like to see is a high potential pick in the lottery with someone like Moses Moody or Jalen Johnson, and a Lowry S&T with Miami to get their pick. Someone like Duarte would be nice fit with Flynn off the bench.

Sengun feels like if he was 2 inches taller he would be JV (who almost put up 20/20 last night). At 6'9. Pass.

Honestly, he might turn out like Gillespie. Who is at least shooting 55.6% FG and 75% FT and a block per game in 16 mins.

If he had Freddie's wingspan with that skillset, I might get on board. Freddie's arms let him play way above his height.

Jonas and Gillespie both have a 7'6 wingspan as well, which is elite.
Sengun with only 7' wingspan is not going contest their shots. Even Siakam and OG are longer with 7'3 and 7'2 respectively.

Sengun will be a PF in the NBA (sure, C for other league, not gonna work in the NBA), but his lateral quickness is questionable, and we don't need another PF.

[XTC]

I think Giddey is interesting. Teams know big playmakers are doing work in the NBA, and the things you can't take away from him are 1. he's 6'8" and 2. he's creating off the dribble as a PG against pros.

Watch on YouTube

The knocks on him are a mixed bag, 31% 3pt as an 18 year old shows he probably won't be a non shooter, but he was only 69% from the FT line. Defensively doesn't have a plus wingspan and may not be able to stay in front of NBA players, but he did grab 1.2 steals and 7 rebounds in 40-minute NBL games.

Anyway, sending a scout to Australia doesn't mean we're that high on him, but he's worth due diligence and I wouldn't rage at the pick.

I think many people are going to be wrong and look dumb when it comes to Giddey when he steps foot into the NBA. I’ve heard comparisons from Rubio to Livingsto, which are flat out dumb.

Giddey is flat out the best passer in the draft. The way he passes and create something is very Nash-like. He’s probably the best player in the draft at controlling and creating the tempo during the game. Kid is good, add in his 6-8 frame and you got a special talent.

It’s how well his scoring and shooting translate that will dictate how good he becomes. If he becomes a knockdown shooter, there’s no way the kid isn’t a future allstar, plain and simple.

FWIW He shot 43/31/68 in the NBL while Lamelo shot 37/25/72 in he same league last season. Kid is very intriguing, don’t write him off. He’s one of those players a team could fall in love with and goes before our pick. I think he’s a draft riser. He’s one of the youngest players in the draft and he will be run an NBA offense from day one, and if he hits his potential he could be one of the biggest unicorns in he NBA.

Don't come in here calling posters dumb and then compare Giddey's passing to Steve Nash.

I guess we all know where your IQ is after this post

1) I never called anyone dumb, but I said some people are going to look dumb writing Giddey off so quick comparing him to Rubio and Livingston

2) I said Nash-like meaning hes aware where everyone is on the court, and he throws some passes that get you off your feet, I didnt mean he could come in an average 10 APG at an ATG level off the bat so GTFO here buddy(I didnt even say he has the potential to reach Steve Nash)

[Mark_83]

Who is the last player Masai drafted in the first round that wasn't a good defender or at least projected to be a good one?

Bruno - potential but low IQ.
Delon - defensive rep
Poeltl - good defender
OG - elite defender
Flynn - MWC defensive player of the year

I predict our pick will be a high IQ, high character player, who projects to be good defensively.

Guys who fit that mold that I've seen so far:

Cade Cunningham
Evan Mobley
Jalen Suggs
Moses Moody
Keon Johnson
Davion Mitchell
Zaire Williams

Not sure on yet for all three criteria:

Jonathan Kuminga
Scottie Barnes
James Bouknight
Franz Wagner

Barnes is elite on defense as well (Draymond Green comparison for a reason)

Bouknight is more like Barbosa, who has the tools, but seems to be lost on rotation.

Wagner does not seem to have the quickness against guards, saw a few blowby when he is not hide on the weakside against guards. I don't think he can come off screen, so when he cannot come out of screen and ask for a switch to a guard, he may got blowby on an isolation situation. He will work in some system, but I doubt it works on ours.

Oh, I have no doubt Barnes is elite defensively, but my three criteria were good defensively, high IQ, and high makeup/character. That's the reason that I didn't include Jalen Johnson, who is supposed to be an excellent defender, but has makeup concerns, and sounds not too smart in his interviews.

I feel like Barnes probably has two of those three, but I'm not 100% sure about his IQ. Obviously there's a difference between basketball IQ and actual IQ, but there does seem to be some correlation. Some of the smartest players in interviews have the best basketball IQs (Magic, Kobe, Nash, etc.)

[XTC]

Sengun feels like if he was 2 inches taller he would be JV (who almost put up 20/20 last night). At 6'9. Pass.

Honestly, he might turn out like Gillespie. Who is at least shooting 55.6% FG and 75% FT and a block per game in 16 mins.

If he had Freddie's wingspan with that skillset, I might get on board. Freddie's arms let him play way above his height.

Jonas and Gillespie both have a 7'6 wingspan as well, which is elite.
Sengun with only 7' wingspan is not going contest their shots. Even Siakam and OG are longer with 7'3 and 7'2 respectively.

Sengun will be a PF in the NBA (sure, C for other league, not gonna work in the NBA), but his lateral quickness is questionable, and we don't need another PF.

Agree 100%

I like Senguns game, but he is undersized. His height may be fine, but a 7-0 wingspan will not get it done in the NBA.

His measurements and more reminiscent of Domantas Sabonis than Jokic which people are trying to push for. Infact I'd say his comparison is probably Sabonis coming out of Gonzaga who had a 6-10 wingspan (similar measurements, and they both have amazing motors), but well see if Sengun can develop a jumper, and the passing ability of Sabonis.

[WuTang_CMB]

Giddey pick smells of all smoke

You think the Raptors would waste weeks of scouting opportunities in Europe by sending their top guys to Australia just to throw someone off their scent that they might reach on a guy widely mocked in the late lottery to mid first round? They don't even know where they're picking yet.

The Raps are scouting everyone. The rumours of us specifically scouting giddey to me is total smoke. He’s not our type of player
Dont be naive. The smoke starts early. League execs and scouts follow it all from the beginning to make you always question whag another team is doing.

[StringerBell]

The amount of Lamelo hate last year vs the amount of Giddey loeve this year is wild lol.

[Indeed]

Who is the last player Masai drafted in the first round that wasn't a good defender or at least projected to be a good one?

Bruno - potential but low IQ.
Delon - defensive rep
Poeltl - good defender
OG - elite defender
Flynn - MWC defensive player of the year

I predict our pick will be a high IQ, high character player, who projects to be good defensively.

Guys who fit that mold that I've seen so far:

Cade Cunningham
Evan Mobley
Jalen Suggs
Moses Moody
Keon Johnson
Davion Mitchell
Zaire Williams

Not sure on yet for all three criteria:

Jonathan Kuminga
Scottie Barnes
James Bouknight
Franz Wagner

Barnes is elite on defense as well (Draymond Green comparison for a reason)

Bouknight is more like Barbosa, who has the tools, but seems to be lost on rotation.

Wagner does not seem to have the quickness against guards, saw a few blowby when he is not hide on the weakside against guards. I don't think he can come off screen, so when he cannot come out of screen and ask for a switch to a guard, he may got blowby on an isolation situation. He will work in some system, but I doubt it works on ours.

Oh, I have no doubt Barnes is elite defensively, but my three criteria were good defensively, high IQ, and high makeup/character. That's the reason that I didn't include Jalen Johnson, who is supposed to be an excellent defender, but has makeup concerns, and sounds not too smart in his interviews.

I feel like Barnes probably has two of those three, but I'm not 100% sure about his IQ. Obviously there's a difference between basketball IQ and actual IQ, but there does seem to be some correlation. Some of the smartest players in interviews have the best basketball IQs (Magic, Kobe, Nash, etc.)

Barnes is a high IQ player, who reads the play ahead, which is why he compared to Draymond Green. He knows the play the opposing teams are running, and able to direct traffic on both end for that reason.

As for Jalen Johnson, someone discussed that his previous head coach at Duke label him as soft. So we are unsure he is a high character player at all.

[PhilBlackson]

It annoys me that the Warriors have a better pick than us & unless the ping pong balls bounce the right way for us -- they will finish with a better pick.

All because MIN is too stupid to catch on that with Edwards improving, THIS year will be the best their pick will be for the next 2-3 years until KAT is inevitably traded or just flat out leaves...

Too dumb to just sit them out, finally get a couple of legit young stars and not another Wiggins but nope they remain the same ol incompetent franchise...meanwhile a competent one takes advantage of it. Please lawd let us leap frog them in the draft.

[BoyzNTheHood]

I think many people are going to be wrong and look dumb when it comes to Giddey when he steps foot into the NBA. I’ve heard comparisons from Rubio to Livingsto, which are flat out dumb.

Giddey is flat out the best passer in the draft. The way he passes and create something is very Nash-like. He’s probably the best player in the draft at controlling and creating the tempo during the game. Kid is good, add in his 6-8 frame and you got a special talent.

It’s how well his scoring and shooting translate that will dictate how good he becomes. If he becomes a knockdown shooter, there’s no way the kid isn’t a future allstar, plain and simple.

FWIW He shot 43/31/68 in the NBL while Lamelo shot 37/25/72 in he same league last season. Kid is very intriguing, don’t write him off. He’s one of those players a team could fall in love with and goes before our pick. I think he’s a draft riser. He’s one of the youngest players in the draft and he will be run an NBA offense from day one, and if he hits his potential he could be one of the biggest unicorns in he NBA.

Don't come in here calling posters dumb and then compare Giddey's passing to Steve Nash.

I guess we all know where your IQ is after this post

1) I never called anyone dumb, but I said some people are going to look dumb writing Giddey off so quick comparing him to Rubio and Livingston

2) I said Nash-like meaning hes aware where everyone is on the court, and he throws some passes that get you off your feet, I didnt mean he could come in an average 10 APG at an ATG level off the bat so GTFO here buddy(I didnt even say he has the potential to reach Steve Nash)

One of us definitely has a low IQ, that's for sure!

1) You try to degrade people's opinions on a prospect because you disagree with them. You do so by saying "I’ve heard comparisons from Rubio to Livingston, which are flat out dumb". It's self-explanatory, but nice try.

2) If you mean he passes like basketball players do, then yes, he's Nash-like. That's where the comparisons end. Are you a child? Because if you saw Ricky Rubio or Shaun Livingston play as prospects you wouldn't be making misinformed hot takes and then talking about how Giddey makes passes that get you off your feet, but not drawing the correlation to Rubio or Livingston.

[Reeko]

The amount of Lamelo hate last year vs the amount of Giddey loeve this year is wild lol.

Fair enough. But answer me this: Where's Wallace at? Where's the boy, String? Where's Wallace? That's all I wanna know. Where the **** is Wallace? Huh? String, String... Look at me. LOOK AT ME! WHERE THE **** IS WALLACE??!?

[XTC]

Don't come in here calling posters dumb and then compare Giddey's passing to Steve Nash.

I guess we all know where your IQ is after this post

1) I never called anyone dumb, but I said some people are going to look dumb writing Giddey off so quick comparing him to Rubio and Livingston

2) I said Nash-like meaning hes aware where everyone is on the court, and he throws some passes that get you off your feet, I didnt mean he could come in an average 10 APG at an ATG level off the bat so GTFO here buddy(I didnt even say he has the potential to reach Steve Nash)

One of us definitely has a low IQ, that's for sure!

1) You try to degrade people's opinions on a prospect because you disagree with them. You do so by saying "I’ve heard comparisons from Rubio to Livingston, which are flat out dumb". It's self-explanatory, but nice try.

2) If you mean he passes like basketball players do, then yes, he's Nash-like. That's where the comparisons end. Are you a child? Because if you saw Ricky Rubio or Shaun Livingston play as prospects you wouldn't be making misinformed hot takes and then talking about how Giddey makes passes that get you off your feet, but not drawing the correlation to Rubio or Livingston.

Me a child? I’m not the one tying to pick a fight on an Internet forum We clearly came to an understanding that I didn’t compare him to Nash, so what’s the beef?

My take is people who are comparing him to Livingston and Rubio as NBA players could be SURPRISED, because IN MY OPINION Giddey has a higher ceiling than that. If you think he’s Rubio or Livingston 2.0 I RESPECT that, but I’m saying it could look dumb in a couple years, because I feel Giddey if he works out a couple things in his game could be special. Damn bruh relax, I could look like an idiot in a couple years for saying Giddey has one of the higher ceilings in the draft. Change your tampon bruh, relax. If me calling other people dumb gets you this heated, you got bigger problems than me saying Giddey’s passes are Nash-like

FWIW I’m well aware of how Rubio and Livingston where rated as prospects, for all I care he turns out to be a fringe NBA player, do I care? Unless he’s selected by the Raps, nahhh. I have no attachment to him other than I think he has one of the higher ceilings in the draft.

[Psubs]

Who is the last player Masai drafted in the first round that wasn't a good defender or at least projected to be a good one?

Bruno - potential but low IQ.
Delon - defensive rep
Poeltl - good defender
OG - elite defender
Flynn - MWC defensive player of the year

I predict our pick will be a high IQ, high character player, who projects to be good defensively.

Guys who fit that mold that I've seen so far:

Cade Cunningham
Evan Mobley
Jalen Suggs
Moses Moody
Keon Johnson
Davion Mitchell
Zaire Williams

Not sure on yet for all three criteria:

Jonathan Kuminga
Scottie Barnes
James Bouknight
Franz Wagner

Barnes is elite on defense as well (Draymond Green comparison for a reason)

Bouknight is more like Barbosa, who has the tools, but seems to be lost on rotation.

Wagner does not seem to have the quickness against guards, saw a few blowby when he is not hide on the weakside against guards. I don't think he can come off screen, so when he cannot come out of screen and ask for a switch to a guard, he may got blowby on an isolation situation. He will work in some system, but I doubt it works on ours.

Oh, I have no doubt Barnes is elite defensively, but my three criteria were good defensively, high IQ, and high makeup/character. That's the reason that I didn't include Jalen Johnson, who is supposed to be an excellent defender, but has makeup concerns, and sounds not too smart in his interviews.

I feel like Barnes probably has two of those three, but I'm not 100% sure about his IQ. Obviously there's a difference between basketball IQ and actual IQ, but there does seem to be some correlation. Some of the smartest players in interviews have the best basketball IQs (Magic, Kobe, Nash, etc.)

Those were probably concerns for KG and TWac.

[niQ]

I guess we all know where your IQ is after this post

1) I never called anyone dumb, but I said some people are going to look dumb writing Giddey off so quick comparing him to Rubio and Livingston

2) I said Nash-like meaning hes aware where everyone is on the court, and he throws some passes that get you off your feet, I didnt mean he could come in an average 10 APG at an ATG level off the bat so GTFO here buddy(I didnt even say he has the potential to reach Steve Nash)

One of us definitely has a low IQ, that's for sure!

1) You try to degrade people's opinions on a prospect because you disagree with them. You do so by saying "I’ve heard comparisons from Rubio to Livingston, which are flat out dumb". It's self-explanatory, but nice try.

2) If you mean he passes like basketball players do, then yes, he's Nash-like. That's where the comparisons end. Are you a child? Because if you saw Ricky Rubio or Shaun Livingston play as prospects you wouldn't be making misinformed hot takes and then talking about how Giddey makes passes that get you off your feet, but not drawing the correlation to Rubio or Livingston.

Me a child? I’m not the one tying to pick a fight on an Internet forum We clearly came to an understanding that I didn’t compare him to Nash, so what’s the beef?

My take is people who are comparing him to Livingston and Rubio as NBA players could be SURPRISED, because IN MY OPINION Giddey has a higher ceiling than that. If you think he’s Rubio or Livingston 2.0 I RESPECT that, but I’m saying it could look dumb in a couple years, because I feel Giddey if he works out a couple things in his game could be special. Damn bruh I could look like an idiot in a couple years for saying Giddey has one of the higher ceilings in the draft. Change your tampon bruh, relax.

FWIW I’m well aware of how Rubio and Livingston where rated as prospects, for all I care he turns out to be a fringe NBA player, do I care? Unless he’s selected by the Raps, nahhh. I have no attachment to him other than I think he has one of the higher ceilings in the draft.

Let's leave it at that. Stop with the personal attacks, both of you.

[BoyzNTheHood]

I guess we all know where your IQ is after this post

1) I never called anyone dumb, but I said some people are going to look dumb writing Giddey off so quick comparing him to Rubio and Livingston

2) I said Nash-like meaning hes aware where everyone is on the court, and he throws some passes that get you off your feet, I didnt mean he could come in an average 10 APG at an ATG level off the bat so GTFO here buddy(I didnt even say he has the potential to reach Steve Nash)

One of us definitely has a low IQ, that's for sure!

1) You try to degrade people's opinions on a prospect because you disagree with them. You do so by saying "I’ve heard comparisons from Rubio to Livingston, which are flat out dumb". It's self-explanatory, but nice try.

2) If you mean he passes like basketball players do, then yes, he's Nash-like. That's where the comparisons end. Are you a child? Because if you saw Ricky Rubio or Shaun Livingston play as prospects you wouldn't be making misinformed hot takes and then talking about how Giddey makes passes that get you off your feet, but not drawing the correlation to Rubio or Livingston.

Me a child? I’m not the one tying to pick a fight on an Internet forum We clearly came to an understanding that I didn’t compare him to Nash, so what’s the beef?

My take is people who are comparing him to Livingston and Rubio as NBA players could be SURPRISED, because IN MY OPINION Giddey has a higher ceiling than that. If you think he’s Rubio or Livingston 2.0 I RESPECT that, but I’m saying it could look dumb in a couple years, because I feel Giddey if he works out a couple things in his game could be special. Damn bruh relax, I could look like an idiot in a couple years for saying Giddey has one of the higher ceilings in the draft. Change your tampon bruh, relax. If me calling other people dumb gets you this heated, you got bigger problems than me saying Giddey’s passes are Nash-like

FWIW I’m well aware of how Rubio and Livingston where rated as prospects, for all I care he turns out to be a fringe NBA player, do I care? Unless he’s selected by the Raps, nahhh. I have no attachment to him other than I think he has one of the higher ceilings in the draft.

Of course, I'm the one trying to start a fight when you're the one who came in here making the worst hot take in a thread full of hot takes. Anyways, I've had enough of you for at least the next few months so this will be my last reply to you since none of your posts in this thread are worth much...

If you want to talk about Giddey being special, I suggest you take a look at some footage of Ricky Rubio and Shaun Livingston as prospects. Both of them looked incredible, and unfortunately Livingston suffered a tough injury, but Giddey's film doesn't hold a candle to either of them.

And this entire thread is located within the Raptors forum, so you know, we're talking about guys we'd like to select. You call Giddey special and then say you don't care whether the Raps select him or not. His ceiling definitely isn't one of the higher ones in the draft, however I do believe that his floor is one of the higher ones. I think in the worst case scenario he becomes a player like Kyle Anderson, which isn't terrible but isn't worthy of a top 7-10 pick.

[Psubs]

I view Giddey's floor is a taller Satoransky. His ceiling is poor man's (less shot making and taking contact) Doncic.

[Reeko]

Barnes is elite on defense as well (Draymond Green comparison for a reason)

Bouknight is more like Barbosa, who has the tools, but seems to be lost on rotation.

Wagner does not seem to have the quickness against guards, saw a few blowby when he is not hide on the weakside against guards. I don't think he can come off screen, so when he cannot come out of screen and ask for a switch to a guard, he may got blowby on an isolation situation. He will work in some system, but I doubt it works on ours.

Oh, I have no doubt Barnes is elite defensively, but my three criteria were good defensively, high IQ, and high makeup/character. That's the reason that I didn't include Jalen Johnson, who is supposed to be an excellent defender, but has makeup concerns, and sounds not too smart in his interviews.

I feel like Barnes probably has two of those three, but I'm not 100% sure about his IQ. Obviously there's a difference between basketball IQ and actual IQ, but there does seem to be some correlation. Some of the smartest players in interviews have the best basketball IQs (Magic, Kobe, Nash, etc.)

Barnes is a high IQ player, who reads the play ahead, which is why he compared to Draymond Green. He knows the play the opposing teams are running, and able to direct traffic on both end for that reason.

As for Jalen Johnson, someone discussed that his previous head coach at Duke label him as soft. So we are unsure he is a high character player at all.

For what it's worth, I think LeBron is dumb as a door knob, but he has a genius level basketball IQ.

[Reeko]

I view Giddey's floor is a taller Satoransky. His ceiling is poor man's (less shot making and taking contact) Doncic.

Satoransky is exactly who he reminded me of when I watched some of his film.

[DatHomieYouHaTe]

Giddey pick smells of all smoke

You think the Raptors would waste weeks of scouting opportunities in Europe by sending their top guys to Australia just to throw someone off their scent that they might reach on a guy widely mocked in the late lottery to mid first round? They don't even know where they're picking yet.

The Raps are scouting everyone. The rumours of us specifically scouting giddey to me is total smoke. He’s not our type of player
Dont be naive. The smoke starts early. League execs and scouts follow it all from the beginning to make you always question whag another team is doing.

Been hearing they were interested in lamelo last year and Rubio.. I'm pretty sure they are looking for someone to run the offense.

Sent from my POCO F1 using Tapatalk

[BoyzNTheHood]

I view Giddey's floor is a taller Satoransky. His ceiling is poor man's (less shot making and taking contact) Doncic.

Satoransky is exactly who he reminded me of when I watched some of his film.

Sato is a good comparison. I don't know if that's a guy we should pick at 7 though.

[WuTang_CMB]

You think the Raptors would waste weeks of scouting opportunities in Europe by sending their top guys to Australia just to throw someone off their scent that they might reach on a guy widely mocked in the late lottery to mid first round? They don't even know where they're picking yet.

The Raps are scouting everyone. The rumours of us specifically scouting giddey to me is total smoke. He’s not our type of player
Dont be naive. The smoke starts early. League execs and scouts follow it all from the beginning to make you always question whag another team is doing.

Been hearing they were interested in lamelo last year and Rubio.. I'm pretty sure they are looking for someone to run the offense.

Sent from my POCO F1 using Tapatalk

They also need a top end defender. Not to mention they now have Flynn. Cade makes sense next to FVV, not this guy.