Draft Thread Part 2

[LBJKB24MJ23]

i think he's got a mixture of Siakam in his game and raw offensively like OG if i had to equate it to a player(s) we know. kinda like Siakam when he first came into the league

I get Harrison Barnes vibes if his shooting comes along. I see him more as a wing than a big.

Looking deeper into his profile becomes pretty damning for him, and if he doesn't work hard he'll quickly become a bust.

They talked about him on the Stepien podcast. Here are some of the details:

https://www.thestepien.com/2021/04/08/jonathan-kuminga/

-Combination of length, strength, coordination are above average for big NBA wings
-Jumping can be effortless, 2nd jump is very quick
-Athleticism is above average, but doesn't always use it functionally
-Shooting is bad from all areas of the court (references below .500 TS%)
-Mechanics are acceptable, but has a small hitch that can only be seen from behind Kuminga
-Doesn't have a great touch, has a lot of bad misses
-Able to create but isn't efficient
-Very good coordination
-Odd that he has such good coordination but struggles with touch and releasing jumper consistently
-Will struggle to create at NBA level without a jumper and doesn't pass a lot which is a bad combo
-Does show flashes on occasion of having decent vision
-Doesn't like to use screens, will often reject them for post ups or isolation plays
-Unlikely, but it's reasonable to believe that he can become a respectable spot-up shooter
-Does not cut well
-Does not rebound well (ball watches)
-Seems like he has a low motor
-Above average on-ball defense (projects as a net-zero defender at a minimum)
-Does not use his strength enough defensively
-If he gets beat he gives up easily which is worrisome because of his length, coordination and athleticism which would allow him to recover
-Low motor on off-ball defense
-Misses rotation responsibilities
-If his man is involved in off-ball action he loses sight of on-ball action
-Defensive rebounding is a great quality
-Reacts well to odd bounces
-If he's guarding someone who shoots he doesn't rebound as well
-Would be good for him to be encouraged to grab-and-go so that the effort is always there
-Compared to Sekou Doumbouya
-Projects him to turn into a rotation player on a championship team that has to be a little more top heavy than the normal championship team (references Kevon Looney on the Warriors as an example)
-Says Jaylen Brown, Tobias Harris, Aaron Gordon type of outcome would probably be if he reached the 99th percentile of his skillset
-You could possibly draft him as a young player with trade value, but it's probably better to draft someone else
-Value wise would be towards the bottom 3rd of the first round

he's the highest bust potential of the top 5 imho. and lot of experts and people here saying he's the likely candidate that falls out of the top 5.

[OakleyDokely]

i think he's got a mixture of Siakam in his game and raw offensively like OG if i had to equate it to a player(s) we know. kinda like Siakam when he first came into the league

I get Harrison Barnes vibes if his shooting comes along. I see him more as a wing than a big.

Looking deeper into his profile becomes pretty damning for him, and if he doesn't work hard he'll quickly become a bust.

They talked about him on the Stepien podcast. Here are some of the details:

https://www.thestepien.com/2021/04/08/jonathan-kuminga/

-Combination of length, strength, coordination are above average for big NBA wings
-Jumping can be effortless, 2nd jump is very quick
-Athleticism is above average, but doesn't always use it functionally
-Shooting is bad from all areas of the court (references below .500 TS%)
-Mechanics are acceptable, but has a small hitch that can only be seen from behind Kuminga
-Doesn't have a great touch, has a lot of bad misses
-Able to create but isn't efficient
-Very good coordination
-Odd that he has such good coordination but struggles with touch and releasing jumper consistently
-Will struggle to create at NBA level without a jumper and doesn't pass a lot which is a bad combo
-Does show flashes on occasion of having decent vision
-Doesn't like to use screens, will often reject them for post ups or isolation plays
-Unlikely, but it's reasonable to believe that he can become a respectable spot-up shooter
-Does not cut well
-Does not rebound well (ball watches)
-Seems like he has a low motor
-Above average on-ball defense (projects as a net-zero defender at a minimum)
-Does not use his strength enough defensively
-If he gets beat he gives up easily which is worrisome because of his length, coordination and athleticism which would allow him to recover
-Low motor on off-ball defense
-Misses rotation responsibilities
-If his man is involved in off-ball action he loses sight of on-ball action
-Defensive rebounding is a great quality
-Reacts well to odd bounces
-If he's guarding someone who shoots he doesn't rebound as well
-Would be good for him to be encouraged to grab-and-go so that the effort is always there
-Compared to Sekou Doumbouya
-Projects him to turn into a rotation player on a championship team that has to be a little more top heavy than the normal championship team (references Kevon Looney on the Warriors as an example)
-Says Jaylen Brown, Tobias Harris, Aaron Gordon type of outcome would probably be if he reached the 99th percentile of his skillset
-You could possibly draft him as a young player with trade value, but it's probably better to draft someone else
-Value wise would be towards the bottom 3rd of the first round

His interview will be very important. If he doesn't have the right mindset or the willingness to put in the work, he's going to be Stanley Johnson.

[Blood Orange]

I get Harrison Barnes vibes if his shooting comes along. I see him more as a wing than a big.

Looking deeper into his profile becomes pretty damning for him, and if he doesn't work hard he'll quickly become a bust.

They talked about him on the Stepien podcast. Here are some of the details:

https://www.thestepien.com/2021/04/08/jonathan-kuminga/

-Combination of length, strength, coordination are above average for big NBA wings
-Jumping can be effortless, 2nd jump is very quick
-Athleticism is above average, but doesn't always use it functionally
-Shooting is bad from all areas of the court (references below .500 TS%)
-Mechanics are acceptable, but has a small hitch that can only be seen from behind Kuminga
-Doesn't have a great touch, has a lot of bad misses
-Able to create but isn't efficient
-Very good coordination
-Odd that he has such good coordination but struggles with touch and releasing jumper consistently
-Will struggle to create at NBA level without a jumper and doesn't pass a lot which is a bad combo
-Does show flashes on occasion of having decent vision
-Doesn't like to use screens, will often reject them for post ups or isolation plays
-Unlikely, but it's reasonable to believe that he can become a respectable spot-up shooter
-Does not cut well
-Does not rebound well (ball watches)
-Seems like he has a low motor
-Above average on-ball defense (projects as a net-zero defender at a minimum)
-Does not use his strength enough defensively
-If he gets beat he gives up easily which is worrisome because of his length, coordination and athleticism which would allow him to recover
-Low motor on off-ball defense
-Misses rotation responsibilities
-If his man is involved in off-ball action he loses sight of on-ball action
-Defensive rebounding is a great quality
-Reacts well to odd bounces
-If he's guarding someone who shoots he doesn't rebound as well
-Would be good for him to be encouraged to grab-and-go so that the effort is always there
-Compared to Sekou Doumbouya
-Projects him to turn into a rotation player on a championship team that has to be a little more top heavy than the normal championship team (references Kevon Looney on the Warriors as an example)
-Says Jaylen Brown, Tobias Harris, Aaron Gordon type of outcome would probably be if he reached the 99th percentile of his skillset
-You could possibly draft him as a young player with trade value, but it's probably better to draft someone else
-Value wise would be towards the bottom 3rd of the first round

His interview will be very important. If he doesn't have the right mindset or the willingness to put in the work, he's going to be Stanley Johnson.

I see Kuminga, Jalen Johnson, and Scottie Barnes bouncing around the league, with a slim chance of one of them turning it around. I just don't see any passion or intensity when they play and that's something that sometimes can't be developed.

[Gold Dragon]

I see Kuminga, Jalen Johnson, and Scottie Barnes bouncing around the league, with a slim chance of one of them turning it around. I just don't see any passion or intensity when they play and that's something that sometimes can't be developed.

Scottie Barnes game is all about passion and intensity particularly on the defensive side of the ball. Otherwise he would be out of the first round because his shooting/scoring leaves a lot to be desired and his playmaking/passing while nice is probably not going to be as big a part of his game at the next level. Not to say there isn’t risk with Barnes because there is a lot. Just not in the passion or intensity department.

[Blood Orange]

I see Kuminga, Jalen Johnson, and Scottie Barnes bouncing around the league, with a slim chance of one of them turning it around. I just don't see any passion or intensity when they play and that's something that sometimes can't be developed.

Scottie Barnes game is all about passion and intensity particularly on the defensive side of the ball. Otherwise he would be out of the first round because his shooting/scoring leaves a lot to be desired and his playmaking/passing while nice is probably not going to be as big a part of his game at the next level. Not to say there isn’t risk with Barnes because there is a lot. Just not in the passion or intensity department.

Perhaps he's the least likely of them to bust, but there's something about his game that I don't feel isn't going to translate well into the league in addition to his current offensive limitations despite having the physical gifts.

[Gold Dragon]

I see Kuminga, Jalen Johnson, and Scottie Barnes bouncing around the league, with a slim chance of one of them turning it around. I just don't see any passion or intensity when they play and that's something that sometimes can't be developed.

Scottie Barnes game is all about passion and intensity particularly on the defensive side of the ball. Otherwise he would be out of the first round because his shooting/scoring leaves a lot to be desired and his playmaking/passing while nice is probably not going to be as big a part of his game at the next level. Not to say there isn’t risk with Barnes because there is a lot. Just not in the passion or intensity department.

Perhaps he's the least likely of them to bust, but there's something about his game that I don't feel isn't going to translate well into the league in addition to his current offensive limitations despite having the physical gifts.

He is the least likely to bust, but most likely to be defensive specialist that is an offensive liability, like half of our current roster.

[Psubs]

So he doesn't rebound well (ball watches) but his defensive rebounding is a great quality...

He averaged 7.2 rebounds. That's good enough for me.

Not starting right away and having to work on everything will help him knowing that he's on a winning team and he has to do winning things to get into the rotation. He'll have to outplay Yuta for starters.

I think people will see it will take 2-3 years for him and I hope that he drops to #7 or 8.


I'd like to see a mock have the cojones to drop him now rather than a few weeks before the draft.

[Psubs]

Scottie Barnes game is all about passion and intensity particularly on the defensive side of the ball. Otherwise he would be out of the first round because his shooting/scoring leaves a lot to be desired and his playmaking/passing while nice is probably not going to be as big a part of his game at the next level. Not to say there isn’t risk with Barnes because there is a lot. Just not in the passion or intensity department.

Perhaps he's the least likely of them to bust, but there's something about his game that I don't feel isn't going to translate well into the league in addition to his current offensive limitations despite having the physical gifts.

He is the least likely to bust, but most likely to be defensive specialist that is an offensive liability, like half of our current roster.

Barnes fits more but we need what Kuminga could be.

It's like they draft Flynn to be FVV, Harris to be Powell and Barnes would be the next generation Siakam.

[Raptorfan2012]

Kuminga’s physicality and athleticism cant be ignored, even if his shot is not quite there. He is like a Pascal but with better handles. He plays like a big small forward in the mold of guys like Tobias Harris and Shawn Marion. If he drops down to 6-7, I think you still pick him up.

[Dalek]

Kuminga’s physicality and athleticism cant be ignored, even if his shot is not quite there. He is like a Pascal but with better handles. He plays like a big small forward in the mold of guys like Tobias Harris and Shawn Marion. If he drops down to 6-7, I think you still pick him up.

He is a no doubter if he falls to 6 or 7. I think when I mentioned earlier that is not set as the fifth pick, that I think in all fairness to the other wing prospects, Kuminga isn't clear cut the 5th best prospect mainly because his skills lag behind other prospects at this stage. Scottie Barnes has the same sort of size and handle and better passing ability and should be at least equal to Kuminga on defense. Somebody might like James Bouknight's effortless scoring and talent.

That is not to say that Kuminga is not a big deal because he was at one point the top rated prospect for 2022. He reclassified to this year and is a young prospect, but physically he is NBA-ready. His issue is likely the reclassifying, the changes to three different highschool/prep schools. This guy never settled down to get into a good routine. Give him a summer with the Toronto staff and he will be shooting it well enough to play rotation minutes. I don't see him as a starter right away, but I do think he can bring some energy minutes off the bench.

[BoyzNTheHood]

So he doesn't rebound well (ball watches) but his defensive rebounding is a great quality...

He averaged 7.2 rebounds. That's good enough for me.

Not starting right away and having to work on everything will help him knowing that he's on a winning team and he has to do winning things to get into the rotation. He'll have to outplay Yuta for starters.

I think people will see it will take 2-3 years for him and I hope that he drops to #7 or 8.


I'd like to see a mock have the cojones to drop him now rather than a few weeks before the draft.

To be fair, he said Kuminga rebounds defensively very well unless he's guarding the guy who took the shot. He said offensive rebounding was an issue, which is a theory that is supported by his numbers (1.2 ORB vs 6.0 DRB).

[God Squad]

He looked a whole tier better than Kuminga TBH.

[Psubs]

So he doesn't rebound well (ball watches) but his defensive rebounding is a great quality...

He averaged 7.2 rebounds. That's good enough for me.

Not starting right away and having to work on everything will help him knowing that he's on a winning team and he has to do winning things to get into the rotation. He'll have to outplay Yuta for starters.

I think people will see it will take 2-3 years for him and I hope that he drops to #7 or 8.


I'd like to see a mock have the cojones to drop him now rather than a few weeks before the draft.

To be fair, he said Kuminga rebounds defensively very well unless he's guarding the guy who took the shot. He said offensive rebounding was an issue, which is a theory that is supported by his numbers (1.2 ORB vs 6.0 DRB).

Jalen Green got 0.5 ORB vs 3.5 DRB. In so few games, it's tough.

In the G-League he was at the top a lot, while Green was on the wing and slashing baseline. I think it was just their role in the offense.

I'm wondering what makes Kuminga better than Jalen Johnson? Age?

I think my Tiers are now:

Cade
Green - Mobley
Suggs
Barnes - JJohnson - Kuminga - Keon
Davion - Moody - Bouknight - Giddey
Wagner - Kispert - Dosunmu - Tre Mann - Springer - Butler - Kai Jones

[Bruin]

If we end up with one of Kuminga, Jalen Johnson, or Scottie Barnes I wonder how they’d fit into the lineup with OG and Pascal at the forward spots

Hopefully we move into the top 4 and don’t have to worry about that

[Syd-TK3]

Definitely a pass a Barnes for me

[BoyzNTheHood]

So he doesn't rebound well (ball watches) but his defensive rebounding is a great quality...

He averaged 7.2 rebounds. That's good enough for me.

Not starting right away and having to work on everything will help him knowing that he's on a winning team and he has to do winning things to get into the rotation. He'll have to outplay Yuta for starters.

I think people will see it will take 2-3 years for him and I hope that he drops to #7 or 8.


I'd like to see a mock have the cojones to drop him now rather than a few weeks before the draft.

To be fair, he said Kuminga rebounds defensively very well unless he's guarding the guy who took the shot. He said offensive rebounding was an issue, which is a theory that is supported by his numbers (1.2 ORB vs 6.0 DRB).

Jalen Green got 0.5 ORB vs 3.5 DRB. In so few games, it's tough.

In the G-League he was at the top a lot, while Green was on the wing and slashing baseline. I think it was just their role in the offense.

I'm wondering what makes Kuminga better than Jalen Johnson? Age?

I think my Tiers are now:

Cade
Green - Mobley
Suggs
Barnes - JJohnson - Kuminga - Keon
Davion - Moody - Bouknight - Giddey
Wagner - Kispert - Dosunmu - Tre Mann - Springer - Butler - Kai Jones

In a perfect world I don't think Kuminga is better than Jalen Johnson. Jalen Johnson minus the character concerns is top-4 in this draft for me only behind Cade, Mobley and Green. But those character issues and the concerns with past foot injuries drop him down a bit for me.

I'd probably say my top-7 at this moment are Cade, Mobley, Green, Suggs, Kuminga, Jalen Johnson, Scottie Barnes. If the Raptors pick any of those guys I'd be ecstatic. If we drop a bit I'm cool with any of Springer, Keon Johnson, Dosunmu, Wagner, and Moody to a lesser extent.

[billy_hoyle]

I love the people that come in here and write their big boards, and they just happen to be identical to the consensus mocks. Seems like such a waste of time writing that up. Just say I'm a basic bitch, and I'm going with the consensus.

There are some people with original takes. For example, that Jerry Lucas guy is all in on Tre Mann.

[gojoorange]

I love the people that come in here and write their big boards, and they just happen to be identical to the consensus mocks. Seems like such a waste of time writing that up. Just say I'm a basic bitch, and I'm going with the consensus.

There are some people with original takes. For example, that Jerry Lucas guy is all in on Tre Mann.

[mtcan]

If we end up with one of Kuminga, Jalen Johnson, or Scottie Barnes I wonder how they’d fit into the lineup with OG and Pascal at the forward spots

Hopefully we move into the top 4 and don’t have to worry about that

You go big...and start OG at the 2 especially if all we have is Gary Trent and Jalen Harris as the other 2 guards...

[TNRaps4life]

You guys forget we can only pick 1 to 4 and 7 to 10... 5 and 6 are out of the equation.


http://www.tankathon.com/pick_odds